Anywats Feck, all the best if you do decide to get up and running again, and if you do, let me know if you got that **K back.

Will do stewarty.

'But what are they supposed to do in year 7 when they reach the 250 markets treshold ?   Stop betting or just pay the charge ?'



With £60,000,000 in your the sky rocket, yes. (hypothetically of course)

It was 250 a year when the PC was introduced.

They changed it getting on for 2 years ago to 250 markets over he lifetinme of the account.
This is what caught me and many others who specialise in a small number of markets.

fbfg

arent you just all losers? i mean come on

My May figures.
Boxing: -£14.21 | Darts: £0.52 | Gaelic Games: £22.97 | Golf: £100.99 | Greyhound Racing: £74.80 | Horse Racing: £4,145.84 | Rugby Union: £3.78 | Snooker: -£51.07 | Soccer: £73.24 | Special Bets: -£26.68 | Tennis: £2.87 | Tote: |  Total P&L:  £4,333.05

Your still outperforming me [:p]

If he is liable for it...

Excellant thread well done Dr j I will be asking some questions over the next few days. At the moment I'm on a really bad run, hoping to turn it around a little today.

Hi Mordin - yep, guess we've been here a while now.  My account got transferred from Flutter though.

Not sure why Catflappo would think you weren't paying the Premium Charge.  Guess he was wrong.

It's also worth remembering that conditions could change very easily and very quickly. What if Betfair raise their commission levels, or change the threshold at which the PC applies?

I knew I shouldn't have tempted fate like that...



As I've mentioned above, I've never been asked to pay a penny in PC. However, the new rules rules means that if I'm lucky enough to hit the £250k
mark (at current rates this would happen in one year's time), I'll be charged at 40%.

This isn't a whinge. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for a gambler who's made a quarter mill. However, it does exemplify why Betfair are wrong to pursue this policy, and it demonstrates how they'll forfeit both business and liquidity.

As the moment, for every £1 I make in profit, I generate 27p in commission for Befair. From next year, Betfair will demand I generate 40p and dip into my account to make up the shortfall. As I result, I'll either switch to an alternative exchange (I don't know how practical that is in terms of liquidity) or quit laying altogether. Either way, Betfair will lose both my comission and my contribution to seeding and sustaining the racing markets.

What's worse for Betfair, because I know what's coming, I've made an immediate decision to slow down my betting and focus more on other things in life. The radically higher charges are too big a deterrent to me. I'll be having more non-punting days and will be happy to creep up the £250k threshold at a much slower rate. This is bad for Betfair's business too.

Some people refer to the PC as a tax, but I would be much more sympathetic to the charge if it was being directed towards building new schools and hospitals. The fact that it's going to the shareholders and board members of an off-shore company only reinforces my decision.

Presumably, other punters will, like me, see their PC charges rise from 0% to 40% simply because an arbitrary threshold has been reached. I'd be amazed if anyone in this situation continues to bet in the same way. It would be like laying at 9-2 where you previously laying at 7-2 (sorry if the maths is inperfect there, but the principle is what's important). Betfair has enhanced my life considerably over the last decade and I feel saddened that it's taking a decision that effectively closes my account.

I'd be most interested to hear the views of this thread's other contributors.

I trust Betfair are in the position to see who are the big winners on here and how they win! Maybe this small number of users will be happy to have 40% of their significant winnings skimmed off. However there will be others like Dr J who have worked hard over 10 years and are getting close to £250,000K who dont deserve to be hit with such a charge.

Just shows how quickly things can change.Unfortunately,it is inevitable that further restrictions on winners will come in as time goes by.Anyone using betfair as a business needs to think again-certainly can't plan ahead.My sympathy Dr J.At least you are only part-time.On the positive side at least you accumulated a reasonable sum.Best of luck.

Dr J, by the time you reach 250k you will probably have a further buffer before you have to pay because your lifetime rate will be over 40%.  So there's probably a good deal of money to be made yet if you see it through until the charge actually kicks in.  Wh knows, things maybe different then...

catfloppo, why do you assume he will be over 40 % when he reaches 250 k when he is at 25 - 27 % when at 200 k ?

That depends, angelo.  If the many people on here who think this is a bad business decision are right then we could assume betfair will change it back again or at least modify it in some way.

Not if it's calculated the way mine has been.  They simulate the actual charges that would have been paid and, as you well know :p, losing weeks cause the actual rate paid to be somewhere above the threshold.

My lifetime stands at 33.9%, for example, yet my 'new pc' rate is 43.4%.

Thinking more about this i think it can be like you have described for people who actually have paid PC in the past when the threshold was 20 %, but in DJ's (or any others) case wher you are below 40 %, but has never paid PC , I would think this simulation would only take you up to 40 %.
  I wouldn't bet my life on it though

do you think this topic gave betfair the idea of the new tax

Doesn't work like that BJT.

Let's say he keep on winning and paying on average 27 % in commission and let's also say he is on 4 % commission.

If he's gross profit in a year is 50 k, he has paid 13.5 k in commission , making his profit 36.5 k.   Here you assume he will "just" have to pay another 13 % of that net profit, but that is very wrong.

  On his way to winning these 36.5 k he has had a total of 337.5 k in winnings and 287.5 k in losses. These losses will have earned him 8.625 in implied commission.
  His commission generated will therefore be 11.062,5 or 22.125 % of his gross profit.
  Betfair will want another 17,875 % from him, not from his net profit, but from his gross profit of 50 k.
  That will be £ 8.937,5 to pay in Premium Charge.

You said he would have to pay 13 % of his net profit in Premium Charge, but the fact is that Betfair will tax him 24.49 % on his net profit.

He will in the end have paid a total of £ 22.437,5 in commission and PC.
  That is 44,875 % of his gross profit, not the 40 % Betfair want us to believe.

I think DJ has said that he has paid 27 % of his winnings in commission and if that's the case, evrything I've written will be correct.   That is if he is on 4 % commission rate,  I can't recall he has said anything about his commission rate and the numbers will differ slightly depending on that rate.