General Betting
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
A long time ago - two usernames ago to be frank - back in 2003 or so I remember being on here and a sage and wise ex-bookmaker handed out a piece of advice: go and read "The Art of Legging" by C. Sidney
http://amzn.to/gkMFOm
I bought a copy then, and it changed my approach to not just Betfair, but gambling in general. I'll never put myself in the position of picking a horse or team in a bet again.
In the first "chapter" (in reality the first 2/3rds of the book), the history of "the game" is explained right up until the last page where betting exchanges make their entry. Then it gets into the maths and mechanics of being a bookie. And once you've read it, you won't want to be anything else other than a market maker or a bookie. And you'll know how. It even touches on how to start going about creating a tissue (although the details are left to the reader).
Anyway, I picked it up again over the weekend whilst recovering from a spot of flu, and loved it. I was wondering how many of you lot had read it, or whether you had your own book recommendations to make? I should point out, this book is not about trying to trade on price movements, or a "make $$$$ every day" book, and I'm not interested in discussions of that crowd of terrible punter-magnet dross. I want to know about stuff up at this level.
I can't remember the name of the forum user who recommended this book, but if you're out there: thank you. It's down as my favourite non-fiction work of all time. Even though it's full of typos, typesetting errors and grammatical mistakes abound, its essence is flipping lovely. :-)
Any other fans?
http://amzn.to/gkMFOm
I bought a copy then, and it changed my approach to not just Betfair, but gambling in general. I'll never put myself in the position of picking a horse or team in a bet again.
In the first "chapter" (in reality the first 2/3rds of the book), the history of "the game" is explained right up until the last page where betting exchanges make their entry. Then it gets into the maths and mechanics of being a bookie. And once you've read it, you won't want to be anything else other than a market maker or a bookie. And you'll know how. It even touches on how to start going about creating a tissue (although the details are left to the reader).
Anyway, I picked it up again over the weekend whilst recovering from a spot of flu, and loved it. I was wondering how many of you lot had read it, or whether you had your own book recommendations to make? I should point out, this book is not about trying to trade on price movements, or a "make $$$$ every day" book, and I'm not interested in discussions of that crowd of terrible punter-magnet dross. I want to know about stuff up at this level.
I can't remember the name of the forum user who recommended this book, but if you're out there: thank you. It's down as my favourite non-fiction work of all time. Even though it's full of typos, typesetting errors and grammatical mistakes abound, its essence is flipping lovely. :-)
Any other fans?
Show More
don butler "cubone" used to recommend it he writes a blog now
http://
www.cubone.co.uk/
http://
www.cubone.co.uk/
That's the fellow! As soon as I saw the name, it came back to me!
Cubone is possibly one of the most knowledgeable old-timers to have frequented these boards. He must be getting on now. Thanks for the link to his blog!
Cubone is possibly one of the most knowledgeable old-timers to have frequented these boards. He must be getting on now. Thanks for the link to his blog!
I bought the 'Art Of Legging' around about 8/9 years ago after reading several recommendations.
To be honest I was completely underwhelmed.
Ended up giving it away on here and sent it to some chap up north whose forum username ended in '1973'.
To be honest I was completely underwhelmed.
Ended up giving it away on here and sent it to some chap up north whose forum username ended in '1973'.
top2rated: Really? What was it you didn't like? I think the value in some of it was about reading between the lines in the later two chapters. There was a Eureka moment for me when the author talks about bookies of old "laying to value" only on high-value handicaps (and explains why), but I had to connect it with my own experience of trading and making books on here for it to "click" and see what he was getting at.
What books *would* you recommend then?
What books *would* you recommend then?
Yes excellent book
Heres another 13 against the bank by Norman Leigh
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thirteen-Against-Bank-Norman-Leigh/dp/0948353996
Heres another 13 against the bank by Norman Leigh
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thirteen-Against-Bank-Norman-Leigh/dp/0948353996
Thanks Lex - I'd heard the story of Norman Leigh, but never seen the book. Ordered!
I also got The Art of Legging after seeing it mentioned here. I have just found it, and it still has the bookmark (a Newmarket race ticket stub for 27/02/2001). It appears I lost intrest on page 164. A modern day comparison for me, is, its like trying to understand Professor Brian Cox explaining the Big Bang Theory. I should have studied more at school I guess.
Don't let that put any of you off though, if you are considering buying it.
Don't let that put any of you off though, if you are considering buying it.
13 against the bank by Norman Leigh?
A winning system based on 'reverse Labouchere'.
Jeez, you might as well ask a lottery winner to reveal his magic system of how to win the lottery.
Maybe it's a fun story, but this book is obviously propagating misinformation. Roulette is beatable if you can find a biased wheel, or have equipment to measure the speed of the ball etc. but not by a magic staking system.
I'm interested in reading the Art of Legging though.
A winning system based on 'reverse Labouchere'.
Jeez, you might as well ask a lottery winner to reveal his magic system of how to win the lottery.
Maybe it's a fun story, but this book is obviously propagating misinformation. Roulette is beatable if you can find a biased wheel, or have equipment to measure the speed of the ball etc. but not by a magic staking system.
I'm interested in reading the Art of Legging though.
TOTGA 22 Mar 11 12:04
top2rated: Really? What was it you didn't like? I think the value in some of it was about reading between the lines in the later two chapters. There was a Eureka moment for me when the author talks about bookies of old "laying to value" only on high-value handicaps (and explains why), but I had to connect it with my own experience of trading and making books on here for it to "click" and see what he was getting at.
What books *would* you recommend then?
I think the problem here is that we're talking about two fairly different books!
I must admit that on reading your opening post I coldn't recall any mention of exchanges in the copy of the book I had for a brief period 8/9 years ago. I now realise why.
The book I think you purchased in 2003 was according to High Stakes Bookshop an "Extensively revised and updated 3rd edition". The copy I'd bought a year or two earlier, presumably the 2nd edition, was simply a reprint of the original book which was published, I think, in the 1970s.
A book I found most interesting was 'The Betting Market As A Guide To Winners' by Malcolm Howard, published by Raceform in 1999.
top2rated: Really? What was it you didn't like? I think the value in some of it was about reading between the lines in the later two chapters. There was a Eureka moment for me when the author talks about bookies of old "laying to value" only on high-value handicaps (and explains why), but I had to connect it with my own experience of trading and making books on here for it to "click" and see what he was getting at.
What books *would* you recommend then?
I think the problem here is that we're talking about two fairly different books!
I must admit that on reading your opening post I coldn't recall any mention of exchanges in the copy of the book I had for a brief period 8/9 years ago. I now realise why.
The book I think you purchased in 2003 was according to High Stakes Bookshop an "Extensively revised and updated 3rd edition". The copy I'd bought a year or two earlier, presumably the 2nd edition, was simply a reprint of the original book which was published, I think, in the 1970s.
A book I found most interesting was 'The Betting Market As A Guide To Winners' by Malcolm Howard, published by Raceform in 1999.
cubone is a character, I always love his posts here (although I havent seen him around for a while) and stories and he is from a time when punting had faces and personalities attached to it, unlike what happens now, we are either invisible or a forum name and a few lines written is what define us and there is no way around it...which is really sad
I take it you don't know Cubone from his days as an aways bookmaker nicking two-pound bets off the day trippers by betting to 200%plus.
I know that Norman Leigh and his story are 100% true. Casino rules changed after that.
This is a good read as well
http://www.pokerplayer.co.uk/sports-betting/horse-racing/139/the_players_don_butler.html
This is a good read as well
http://www.pokerplayer.co.uk/sports-betting/horse-racing/139/the_players_don_butler.html
Dont see how Art of Legging would help on here! Completely outdated. Van Tharp Trade your way to financial freedom was invaluable for me!
Agree dlarssonf great book. I recommend the new annotated edition, if you haven't read it already.
I read the Van Tharp book, thought it was just 'ok'. Market Wizards, which made Van Tharp famous, is brilliant though, as is the New Market Wizards.
Has anyone read 'gambling wizards'? Obviously a ripped of title, but it's got good reviews on amazon.
If you're into analysis of performance metrics, the best books I've read are Trading Risk by Ken Grant, and surprisingly, Direct from Dell by Michael Dell.
I read the Van Tharp book, thought it was just 'ok'. Market Wizards, which made Van Tharp famous, is brilliant though, as is the New Market Wizards.
Has anyone read 'gambling wizards'? Obviously a ripped of title, but it's got good reviews on amazon.
If you're into analysis of performance metrics, the best books I've read are Trading Risk by Ken Grant, and surprisingly, Direct from Dell by Michael Dell.
Common Stocks and Uncommon Profits by Phil Fisher is brilliant. Even if you're not into investing, you can use the points from this book to understand how a good company should be run, and run your own 'betfair activity' according to these principles. Reading something on business planning would also be useful if you take it that seriously.
I found bits of "New Money Management" by Ralph Vince worthwhile from a staking/trading perspective ...
Yeah Ralph Vince is very good. Also explains how to adjust Kelly for trading.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539