eh? ... what you supposed to do when the API gives up half way through the race (15.40 Mewmarket and, i suspect 15.40 Curragh, tho i wasn't watching that market)
eh? ... what you supposed to do when the API gives up half way through the race (15.40 Mewmarket and, i suspect 15.40 Curragh, tho i wasn't watching that market)
Contrarian IS right... 100% uptime is completely unreasonable in computing. But I do think they need to invalidate all outstanding trades/bets in these cases, winning and losing positions alike.
And I say this as I am currently sat on a winning position... from which I would like to be off.
Contrarian IS right... 100% uptime is completely unreasonable in computing. But I do think they need to invalidate all outstanding trades/bets in these cases, winning and losing positions alike.And I say this as I am currently sat on a winning positi
Well you would still come off as winner with other sites even if they would crash once a week. Not the case here paying 60% of your profits every week and getting no rebate with next week losses
Well you would still come off as winner with other sites even if they would crash once a week. Not the case here paying 60% of your profits every week and getting no rebate with next week losses
Doesn't bode well for when the premier league kicks off again, the saturday afternoon "system falling flat on its face" every week used to be beyond a joke..
Doesn't bode well for when the premier league kicks off again, the saturday afternoon "system falling flat on its face" every week used to be beyond a joke..
Even IT world leaders can't (or rather, shouldn't) guarantee 100% uptime.
The true answer is to make concessions for when these things happen, to mitigate inconvienience and possible bank busting.
Even IT world leaders can't (or rather, shouldn't) guarantee 100% uptime.The true answer is to make concessions for when these things happen, to mitigate inconvienience and possible bank busting.
Absolutely Lori. Suspend and void all bets, win or loss. It may be unfair to some but it seems to be the best method all round to me.
... or well, refund all losing bets and keep winning bets but we all know that wouldn't happen.
Absolutely Lori. Suspend and void all bets, win or loss. It may be unfair to some but it seems to be the best method all round to me.... or well, refund all losing bets and keep winning bets but we all know that wouldn't happen.
Funnily enough, mine didn't update with the Rory lay that I was processing. The usual hoovering that most of us have no access to obviously still in place.
Funnily enough, mine didn't update with the Rory lay that I was processing. The usual hoovering that most of us have no access to obviously still in place.
the need to reinvest it back into the site Contrarian
59% will be spent on: Virtual Slug Racing, integrating the forum with Friends Reunited and buying betamax video recorders.
the remainder will be spent on the infrastructure.
the need to reinvest it back into the site Contrarian59% will be spent on: Virtual Slug Racing, integrating the forum with Friends Reunited and buying betamax video recorders.the remainder will be spent on the infrastructure.
Friends Re-united DStyle? Google+ is the new buzzword doncha know. Their "Web 2.0 Integration Medium Consultant" will be pushing for £3 million and half their IT staff to integrate with that ****ing flavour of the month.
Friends Re-united DStyle? Google+ is the new buzzword doncha know. Their "Web 2.0 Integration Medium Consultant" will be pushing for £3 million and half their IT staff to integrate with that ****ing flavour of the month.
It's showing that pennies of my lay were matched at 15:44 & the rest at 14:46. That's 2 minutes after I had the error message. So some **** was able to get through when no-one else could.
It's showing that pennies of my lay were matched at 15:44 & the rest at 14:46. That's 2 minutes after I had the error message. So some **** was able to get through when no-one else could.
They didn't cancel all bets like they promised either. I cleared out Rory's price there.
If you can't beat 'em join 'em I guess, it's clear the pledge isn't worth the pixels it was written with.
They didn't cancel all bets like they promised either. I cleared out Rory's price there.If you can't beat 'em join 'em I guess, it's clear the pledge isn't worth the pixels it was written with.
Mmm, I guess so. In shorter markets it may be beneficial. For instance, say it goes down on tennis and the player you were backing went a set and a break up in the meantime, where you would have normally gotten off after the initial break for the set.
In that sense, it's fortunate. But I know what you mean.
Mmm, I guess so. In shorter markets it may be beneficial. For instance, say it goes down on tennis and the player you were backing went a set and a break up in the meantime, where you would have normally gotten off after the initial break for the set
What gets me w/ this one is that they took bets for which they put up an error message, 'please press refresh on your bet manager'. Then when it became apparent that they had taken a bet (wh/ I had repeated three times thinking the problem was at my end), they didn't take the bet back, despite putting up just the same error message.
Then they suspended the market altogether.
I was completely in the dark as to how much I had on and was unable to trade out.
The mistake is of a different magnitude to suspending a market and not allowing traders to trade. Their actual messaging about bets was misleading.
I hope that they will be able to void affected markets if punters request it.
What gets me w/ this one is that they took bets for which they put up an error message, 'please press refresh on your bet manager'. Then when it became apparent that they had taken a bet (wh/ I had repeated three times thinking the problem was at my
You can't really void the whole open because you accidentally took bets for 13 minutes of it.
What they need to do is suspend the second the system crashes.
You can't really void the whole open because you accidentally took bets for 13 minutes of it.What they need to do is suspend the second the system crashes.
Lori, they are never going to be able to suspend at a punctual point in time.
W/ people accessing the site through various interfaces and through diff. internet nodes, it will always be the case that some people will have access to the markets while others' access is blocked.
The solution is for bf to take on the risk of their technology failures. This will inevitably mean refunding losing customers if their bets were taken at a time when the site was in an intermediate state between being down and being partially down.
I wonder whether they will do so in the case.
Lori, they are never going to be able to suspend at a punctual point in time.W/ people accessing the site through various interfaces and through diff. internet nodes, it will always be the case that some people will have access to the markets while o
I'm talking about a horse race off at 4.05 for which they took bets they showed as being rejected from 3.42 up to the time they suspended.
If the message suggests that the site is experiencing technical difficulties and shows the bet as rejected, it is misleading to take it. Then it is inequitable not to take bets that were rebuffed with the same error message.
Suspending a market unambiguously is regrettable, but this 'half-on, half-off' state is a lot worse.
I'm talking about a horse race off at 4.05 for which they took bets they showed as being rejected from 3.42 up to the time they suspended.If the message suggests that the site is experiencing technical difficulties and shows the bet as rejected, it i
Their customer commitment pledge sh*t thing is nothing more than words.
Like the rubbish they spout at the Q&A, in emails and in forum announcements it's cleverly chosen words designed to shut us up with no substance behind them whatsoever.
Customer service to them means answering the phone in 3 rings and calling you by your name. Customer service to me means listening to what your customer wants and then doing it, not listening to what the customer wants and then nodding your head and saying 'Oooh yes, we agree, we'll sort that out right away' and then continuing as you were.
I have a long list of empty promises made by Betfair. Many things that were 'just around the corner' but have never materialised.
I've already withdrawn most of my balance. Won't be much longer before I make that 100% and f*ck off completely because I'm sick of talking to a brick wall.
Their customer commitment pledge sh*t thing is nothing more than words. Like the rubbish they spout at the Q&A, in emails and in forum announcements it's cleverly chosen words designed to shut us up with no substance behind them whatsoever. Customer
It is one thing to have downtime in the middle of the night due to planned maintenance. It is another thing to have unscheduled web server failures due to not being able to meet peak demand. And it is another thing entirely for this to happen on a real-time trading platform. How many years has this been happening at Betfair now?
It is one thing to have downtime in the middle of the night due to planned maintenance. It is another thing to have unscheduled web server failures due to not being able to meet peak demand. And it is another thing entirely for this to happen on a re
I've previously won more on outages than I've lost this time so I'm philosophical about the prospect of any voidings, but my patience w/ the company is wearing thin.
The only pledge from the customer commitment that can mean anything in this regard is to resolve a certain percentage of disputes first-time round. I'm pretty sure that will be impossible if their customers argue for what is fair w/ the outages.
I've previously won more on outages than I've lost this time so I'm philosophical about the prospect of any voidings, but my patience w/ the company is wearing thin.The only pledge from the customer commitment that can mean anything in this regard is
singero, I cd live very easily with suspensions and unavailable markets, what I can't be doing w/ is ambiguous messages about whether yr bet has been taken or not.
There has to be complete clarity so that bettors can manage their liabilities.
singero, I cd live very easily with suspensions and unavailable markets, what I can't be doing w/ is ambiguous messages about whether yr bet has been taken or not.There has to be complete clarity so that bettors can manage their liabilities.
It is very frustrating. Let's not forget that 99% uptime means that 3 days a year or 15 minutes out of every 24-hour period is downtime. If this happens at peak times when people depend on real-time availability...
It is very frustrating. Let's not forget that 99% uptime means that 3 days a year or 15 minutes out of every 24-hour period is downtime. If this happens at peak times when people depend on real-time availability...
ALL the good traders on here claim to follow two fundamental rules. Only trade both in and out at good value at the time of the trades. Only trade in amounts that are intelligently proportional to your capital base.
So, as such, if and when they are caught with a leg up by an unexpected outage, what is, or should be, the real problem exposure wise ?
If the opening trade was good value when it was opened, then if you then run with it to expiry of the event ( even if involuntarily) then over time they ( the opening trades) should still come out ahead long term.
If that basic law of long term probability is not reassuring enough to many traders, that is in the short term they're somehow going to be killed if they can't close out their open position, then they are overtrading in a bet size/capital sense.( Warren Buffet put it more succinctly when he said " Don't buy any share that you would not be happy owning if the share markets went out of existence for the next 10 years ".)
I get the feeling on here that many people are trading willy nilly, going one way and then another on a whim and a prayer. Not just only trading good value if and when they see it. IR has created all sorts of false trading opportuniteies for many amateurs on here.
But I can see how outages are very, very annoying in the sense of closing out obviously losing positions to reduce commissions or to retrieve capital to move onto other events, but is not the end of the world if you can't do that very occasionally.
The key point is, or should be, whether all participants are being treated absolutely equally by BF when these outages occur. This is, it seems to me, what Askari is correctly alluding to.
It would seem that BF is very inconsistent and inequitable in its handling of these outages and that is totally wrong.
ALL the good traders on here claim to follow two fundamental rules.Only trade both in and out at good value at the time of the trades.Only trade in amounts that are intelligently proportional to your capital base.So, as such, if and when they are cau
It was that if a bettor (trader, arber or swing position taker) is unaware of their liabilities, then it is impossible to bet rationally after an outage.
I had a situation where some of the bets for which I got the 'a transaction error occurred message' were taken and others, getting exactly the same message, were refused.
I had no idea of where I stood or whether to trade back or not.
Further, someone arbing can consciously be taking bad value just to square up the trade and to move onto something else. If a trader or arber only took positions that seemed to him good value (presuming he knew what that was), he wd only take a fraction of the initial positions he in practice feels able to risk.
FATH, the point I was making was slightly diff.It was that if a bettor (trader, arber or swing position taker) is unaware of their liabilities, then it is impossible to bet rationally after an outage.I had a situation where some of the bets for which
For me the key point is that, as per their self-description, bf are a company that use technology to manage risk.
When their technology fails, the risk shd be passed onto bf themselves.
For me the key point is that, as per their self-description, bf are a company that use technology to manage risk.When their technology fails, the risk shd be passed onto bf themselves.
FATH, it wd mean settling markets in an imbalanced way--in other words, voiding losers' bets (if there were some circs. around them wh/ meant they were unable to manage their liabilities) while honouring the winning bets of their counterparties.
The alternative is having a punctual suspension time across all platforms and timely messages accurately informing bettors of their liabilities.
I accept that outages are a fact of life and that they can managed by sensible staking re the size of yr bank.
But I do feel that the messages concerning whether bets have been taken shd be accurate. 'A transaction error occurred' and no bets shown on the screen (for manual bettors) implies that the bet has been turned down. It seems correct to me for bets of this kind to be voided (or all bets of this kind to be honoured).
FATH, it wd mean settling markets in an imbalanced way--in other words, voiding losers' bets (if there were some circs. around them wh/ meant they were unable to manage their liabilities) while honouring the winning bets of their counterparties.The a
FAFH in your mission to reply to every single thread in GB you may have missed Betfairs sticky a few months back whereby they pledged to deal with outages in a new way. They said that during an outage nobody would be able to bet with an obviously unfair advantage.
Yet again this has been shown to be utter bullsh*t as is a lot of the talk they talk.
You are right, if a trader finds only one half of his bet matched that shouldn't be an issue providing he is doing both of the following 1) staking appropriately 2) betting to value
But those are fairly basic givens and are not the reason we are yet again peeved at the way Betfair have A) gotten themselves into the situation and B) dealt with the situation
Their Customer Service is a f*cking joke and their empty promises and bullsh*t PR lines are actually starting to offend me.
FAFH in your mission to reply to every single thread in GB you may have missed Betfairs sticky a few months back whereby they pledged to deal with outages in a new way. They said that during an outage nobody would be able to bet with an obviously unf
Well, to bf's credit they have done exactly what I suggested--treated all ambiguous bets getting the same error message in the same way.
They've got me off the hook of this loss (in the mid-three figs., or enough to irritate me) by applying a commonsense rule. Well done!
Had their site been suspended and no bets allowed, I wd accept that bettors shd accept their final bf screens as their final results. This is the situation that wd eventuate if bf were able to impose a universal 'suspend'.
Well, to bf's credit they have done exactly what I suggested--treated all ambiguous bets getting the same error message in the same way. They've got me off the hook of this loss (in the mid-three figs., or enough to irritate me) by applying a commons
Btw I would expect, or at least hope, that there is a lot of reaming out going on in BF towers tonight. Lots of planned nightclub visits being postponed by all and sundry, I would think. Or do you all think they're doing lines of coke in the office, celebrating yet another IT **** up at prime time ?
Btw I would expect, or at least hope, that there is a lot of reaming out going on in BF towers tonight.Lots of planned nightclub visits being postponed by all and sundry, I would think.Or do you all think they're doing lines of coke in the office, ce
If they get their a*ses reamed every time they have a prime time outage then I imagine they are all walking about with prolapsed colons.
An outage once in a while is acceptable. It's going to happen.
Outages that consistently occur on heavy traffic periods with no firewall for those unfortunate enough not to be on the Betfair VIP list are frankly not acceptable.
If they get their a*ses reamed every time they have a prime time outage then I imagine they are all walking about with prolapsed colons.An outage once in a while is acceptable. It's going to happen.Outages that consistently occur on heavy traffic per
Mr. Frog has been claiming along many PC discussions that the financial markets can't be compared to the betting exchange.
Only today will I admit he's right. If any financial exchange suffered so many outages (if they ever suffer one, some people really suffer the consequences) it would very quickly go out of business.
May it be that they concentrate in their core business and have a consistent charging model? (Surprisingly, winning and losing customers are treated equally)
Mr. Frog has been claiming along many PC discussions that the financial markets can't be compared to the betting exchange.Only today will I admit he's right. If any financial exchange suffered so many outages (if they ever suffer one, some people rea
I do appreciate your point SP and I don't want to side with Betfair on this but lets be honest, Betfair going down and the LSE going down are two very different kettles of fish.
And Betfair certainly act like it too.
I do appreciate your point SP and I don't want to side with Betfair on this but lets be honest, Betfair going down and the LSE going down are two very different kettles of fish. And Betfair certainly act like it too.
I'm not a techie but it certainly seems that BF must have gone down some seriously wrong avenues IT wise. Probably it is time to stop and retrace a bit. Apparently currently an apprentice at all, and a master at none.
I'm not a techie but it certainly seems that BF must have gone down some seriously wrong avenues IT wise.Probably it is time to stop and retrace a bit.Apparently currently an apprentice at all, and a master at none.
As someone pointed out above Bf claims to be a technology leader in this area and they also mention the volumes and number of bets they handle ...
It's not about comparing sizes, it's about sticking to reality: if time and money is spent on the non-core business, time and money will not be spent on the core business
In such scenario, outages are likely to happen on a regular basis ... (it sounds like if I were predicting the future, but it seems like if I were just telling history)
As someone pointed out above Bf claims to be a technology leader in this area and they also mention the volumes and number of bets they handle ...It's not about comparing sizes, it's about sticking to reality: if time and money is spent on the non-co
actually, it looks to me as if one of their servers has been playing up today ... it looks like the problem they had ages ago when one server wasn't working properly and if you were unfortunate enough to connect to its IP number you got really erratic response times.
anyone else having a similar problem?
actually, it looks to me as if one of their servers has been playing up today ... it looks like the problem they had ages ago when one server wasn't working properly and if you were unfortunate enough to connect to its IP number you got really errat
apart from the technical problems themselves (some of which can be beyond betfair's control sometimes), the biggest problem with site downtime is nicely highlighted on their own twitter page.
Betfair Betfair Official We are having intermittent problems with the site- a further update will follow. Our engineers are investigating 59 minutes ago Betfair Official Betfair Betfair Official @ @OnlineTrader1 We're not seeing any issues with the site here but will check with our ops team and report back 1 hour ago Betfair Official Betfair Betfair Official @ @boots111 we aren't seeing any issues here. What is the site doing for you? 1 hour ago
your users should not be telling your own staff that there is a problem with their site.
do you understand that betfair.
you are supposed to know at least at exactly the same time as your users, and if possible before.
your customers are not your monitoring software.
this, of course, is why the suspension of markets is often so late.
apart from the technical problems themselves (some of which can be beyond betfair's control sometimes), the biggest problem with site downtime is nicely highlighted on their own twitter page.Betfair Betfair OfficialWe are having intermittent problems
Ye old Betfayre seems to go down more frequently than a Kings X crack **** although unlike their share price it does come back up gain. More seriously I'm beginning to question it's even worth staying with BF. I lost money at the weekend because of BF's technical incompetence and a robotic apology is no substitute for recompense. I'm inching ever closer to using the BetDack acc. I opened when Betfear crashed the Saturday before Cheltenham. Still, it could be worse - I could be a BF shareholder.
Ye old Betfayre seems to go down more frequently than a Kings X crack **** although unlike their share price it does come back up gain. More seriously I'm beginning to question it's even worth staying with BF. I lost money at the weekend because of B
oh no eddie, dont say that, is there now a ruling that says anyone freezing pennys in there account will be amputated from the markets, good grief thats rather harsh lol
oh no eddie, dont say that, is there now a ruling that says anyone freezing pennys in there accountwill be amputated from the markets, good grief thats rather harsh lol