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flashbang
04 Feb 11 08:02
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Date Joined: 29 Jul 10
| Topic/replies: 11 | Blogger: flashbang's blog
just been notified im going to have 20% deducted from successful bets.How are you supposed to make this game pay,dont betfair want customers

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Replies: 230
By:
Eddie the eagle
When: 04 Feb 11 08:44
In fairness to Betfair, that's not how it works.
  I do think the charge is disgraceful though.
By:
BobSievier
When: 04 Feb 11 14:16
welcome to the 0.05% , or was it 0.5% .
By:
flashbang
When: 04 Feb 11 14:19
I know its not going to be 20%.But I have only made modest profits and this will effect my trading to a massive degree.What is the purpose behind the charge,betfair greed?,pressure from taxman,pressure from other bookmakers?
By:
Eddie the eagle
When: 04 Feb 11 15:17
Of the three reasons you mention, greed is the only possible, but there may have been a few other reasons too, even if greed probably is the main one.
By:
Mucho
When: 04 Feb 11 17:56
You joined in july 2010 and you expect us to believe you've hit the premium charge already
By:
U.A.
When: 04 Feb 11 20:36
I'm know that this has been covered many times before but it is the date you joined forum that is shown as your joined date, not the date you joined Betfair.
By:
steve3455
When: 04 Feb 11 21:30
i rejoined betfair in 2010 and i have been hit with the premium charge. and i never knew until it popped up on my statement that 20 quid had been taken out.they can do what they want and no appology for taking the money out of my account.he said i have paid 19.94 percent on my winnings but obviously this is not enough, and we are are supposed to believe tnat 0.005 percent of people are affected by the premium charge.this is just a money pit for betfair and i hope that another exchange can step up to the plate soon.
By:
The Visionary
When: 04 Feb 11 22:22
They must have changed it then as in the old days it was definitely the date you joined BF
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 04 Feb 11 22:24
Why did you rejoin ?
Because you didn't like the alternatives ?
By:
racing snake
When: 04 Feb 11 22:31
the good old days of tax free betting are slowly drifting away people and i am affraid it is the introduction of the exchanges and especially the gready on course exchange in running layers that are the cause. hi lighting the problem to the levy board and gamb commission.
By:
luloo
When: 05 Feb 11 01:39
everyone will pay the tax soon.
By:
Fred!
When: 05 Feb 11 02:14
Soon we won't even be able to mention the ****** site either.
By:
Fred!
When: 05 Feb 11 02:16
******
By:
jimmy69
When: 05 Feb 11 12:46
Were you a complainer then too?LaughLaughLaugh
By:
man of many moods
When: 05 Feb 11 12:49
The Visionary     04 Feb 11 22:22 
They must have changed it then as in the old days it was definitely the date you joined BF


My date shown is definitely my forum joining date, not the date I joined Betfair. That's always been the case.
By:
jimmy69
When: 05 Feb 11 13:05
Laugh
By:
jimmy69
When: 05 Feb 11 13:05
Give us an hour or so...
By:
funlovingexpress
When: 06 Feb 11 00:11
I just joined the forum today but have been a bf customer a while and it says "joined date feb 2011"

So it is definately the forum joining date being displayed
By:
marky sparky
When: 06 Feb 11 04:38
if you signed up to the forum since the new version one was launched then it shows that date...if you signed up before that then it's your BF joining date.
By:
flashbang
When: 06 Feb 11 20:39
Thanks guys for your feedback.Its a bit of a double edged sword being told you are one of the 0.5%,on one hand your chest swells that your one of the elite,but reality hits and now im at a massive disadvantage.Arbing is out of the question,backing outright is not looking good value.Other bookmakers shut you down when you win,surely this charge amounts to the same thing.Id be interested to here the thoughts on people paying this charge and still making betting pay on this exchange.
By:
Just Checking
When: 06 Feb 11 20:43
The PC is a blessing - when you do something monumentally stupid and blow a wad you know you shouldn't have, as you walk around kicking furniture the ONLY consolation you get is "that's a bit less PC I'll pay" :)
By:
marky sparky
When: 06 Feb 11 20:44
I just do what I've always done...just take home 20% less :-(
By:
flashbang
When: 06 Feb 11 20:51
ty you just checking and marky sparky.understand what your saying. f all you you can do about it so take it on the chin,but surely you must be now at a big disadvantage,and it could sway the difference of winning and losing?
By:
Just Checking
When: 06 Feb 11 20:54
RBF it's not an ADDITIONAL 20%, it's 20% - "what you've given in commission + implied commission / 2", so if you're upy downy and end 'up' it takes that into account .. but it's a fork of a lot of upy downy to hit 20%.
By:
flashbang
When: 06 Feb 11 21:05
obviously I know its not 20%.But you know and I know just 1% profit on turnover is a nice healthy profit,so any charge that your paying above 99.5% of your fellow punters is a charge that must effect the viability of betting on this exchange?
By:
Just Checking
When: 06 Feb 11 21:16
I don't want to come across as loving the PC, and thus becoming the most hated person on the forum ([:o]!), but it's always on profit so by definition, it's eating into whatever you've got as an 'edge' or whatever, not stopping you make the profit in the first place.

I think 20% is too high and arbitrary regardless of how you look at it, perhaps 10% would be fairer if you accept the 'need'.
By:
Coachbuster
When: 06 Feb 11 22:30
i now believe for the first time it is way too high given the site we have to work with  and how it's been ruined of late  Cry
By:
flashbang
When: 07 Feb 11 03:38
They say in there advertisements,we dont care who wins,we merely provide the vehicle in which you can bet against your fellow punters,then when your ahead they impose this extreme charge which puts you at a massive disadvantage to your fellow punters.I repeat is it viable,certainly arbing is out of the question,betting outright on a strong fancy is also not viable,so we are down to laying,which I ADMIT is a fantastic tool that nearly only betfair provide,but is this enough and I DONT LIKE conspiracey theories,but why do betfair feel the needfor this charge when they profit from every matched bet
By:
Eddie the eagle
When: 07 Feb 11 08:24
You clearly don't understand how the charge works. Not arbing I get, but why would laying be better than backing when in PC land ?
By:
steve3455
When: 07 Feb 11 10:43
betfair wants to be a bookmaker cos they are jealous of there profits but doesnt want the risk.so premium charge is equal to limiting  you or shutting you down, and being a monopoly they can do whatever they like.they want you to bet on there products i.e multiples etc where they make more profit. and if they were a registered bookie they would have to compete with bookmakers and that means taking risks and cutting margins and thats not the betfair way.so betfair can stay as an exchange and introduce its latest money making products without having to  compromise its position in the market
By:
flashbang
When: 07 Feb 11 14:38
ETE ,how can you back horses,I know generally betfair have bigger prices,but with there take and the premium charge on top surely it pays to take best price traditional bookie,knowing what your return would be.Im not saying you cant back horses then lay them,or lay horses then back them,which betfair have a virtual monopoly which I mean by laying on betfair because this is not available with traditional bookies.I think steve has hit the nail on the head,this charge is equal to limiting you or shutting you down.obviously I will continue what Im doing and all credit to betfair for innovating the exchange which has been the best thing for punters in my lifetime.Im simply trying to get behind the main reasons for the charge,which possibly is a case of greed,but I think maybe the main reason is to stop arbing,betting best prices with traditional bookies(no profit for betfair)then laying on exchange
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 07 Feb 11 16:58
They're simply doing it to ensure that all profitable users of the BF platform pay a fair charge based on their " profitable " usage.
Some "smart " users had found a way not to do this, and BF is trying to stop that as it is unfair both to BF and unfair to other  "less smart " users who have thus been effectively subsidising them.
I use smart and less smart very reservedly here.
By:
steve3455
When: 07 Feb 11 17:30
i think when the premium charge came in it did hit the smart users.but listening to a fair few comments, there are more people  winning small amounts and being hit with the premium charge .and thats the reason they are annoyed
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 07 Feb 11 17:32
What is it about traders that make them think they're so important that the rest of us should pay for the running of the site while they get to operate virtually commission free. Their attitude is identical to that of the parasitic sc.um in the financial sector who are getting pay rises and huge bonuses while the rest of the country pays for their mistakes.


Suppose they deducted 22.5% of your lifetime profit as a running total making deductions / rebates after each market was settled and then each Wednesday they calculated what you would've paid under the old system and, if that was greater than what you'd already paid, docked the difference from your account (i.e. they're swapping over the normal and premium charge deduction times). Then

1) Everyone would pay more or less what they do now

2) The Ferengi wouldn't have a Wednesday payment

3) Almost all gamblers would have a Wednesday payment

4) Gamblers would be up in arms at having to subsidise the mainly worthless Ferengi.

5) The only people who wouldn't be whinging would be the Ferengi.

Can any pc calimero please tell us why the gamblers should have to make this wednesday payment?

Would giving those NOT being charged on the wednesday a rebate of 75% of their previous week's commission be a solution to the above injustice? If you think so then you need treatment.


Under the old system if you had 100 backs at 1.1 and they all won and I had 100 backs at 110.0 and one won, we'd both have the same turnover and gross profit but I'd be  expected to pay up to 11 times the commission you would. The premium charge doesn't even go far enough to address that injustice as those paying it are still paying a lower percentage of their profits in commission than all other long term betfair winners.
By:
steve3455
When: 07 Feb 11 17:40
this is the problem i am not a trader i won my money on inplay football picking the winner.i do not trade just your ordinary punter and you get labelled a trader as if they are the only people who win.thats as honest as i can be
By:
nortons
When: 07 Feb 11 17:55
When signing up many years ago i cannot remember seeing under terms and conditions," if you win money in a certain way you are likely to be penalised in the future". At the outset traders were actively encouraged and if its so easy being a parasite why Feck dont you jump on the gravy train? The pc charge is wrong no matter how you use the site.
By:
Feck N. Eejit
When: 07 Feb 11 17:59
nortons, so address my 17:32 post. You actually think the solution to the disparity would be to refund those paying the least up to 75% of what they paid the previous week? Incidentally, at the outset the charge was 5% of profit on each bet. I daresay they'll let you go back to that if you want.
By:
FINE AS FROG HAIR
When: 07 Feb 11 18:22
Funny but essentially stupid analogy Mgt.
You can do better than that I know you can.
By:
U.A.
When: 07 Feb 11 18:52
Feck - Ooh i'm impressed. When you posted your initial response did you have that saved on your computer or could you just remember from which post you last used it and then cut and paste it from there. Either way it shows good efficiency. I must admit I thought people might realise this and you would not get anyone to bite, but fair play to you you managed it, shows what I know.
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