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General Betting
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These 93 comments are related to the topic:
Do Betfair only listen to their big customers?
Do Betfair only listen to their big customers?
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Replies: 93
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I dont want to misquote him so im going to say nothing. I think he is quite happy to discuss the subject if anyone wants to contact him.
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That is fair enough noodles. Without giving anything away did you feel a bit happier after your chat ?
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Not really, Doubled. Its fair to say I lost the argument.
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cheers
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When yo say you work in an exchange shop do you mean your employed by one ? or do you mean you trade in one?
As for the other stuff GOM is correct imo. One interesting point is that if shop traders now have lost their edge will they empty out? |
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Trade from one, Ratkin.
I think if every track was like lingfield or leicester than yes they would be finished but as long as there are turftv tracks then they should be able to survive (if not exactly flourish). |
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All very strange innitt
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I just dont agree with people making these huge amounts with very little skill.
I said exactly this a few months ago and you said that it's a level playing field and anyone can go to an exchange shop if they so desired and that idiots shouldn't be protected. Why the change of heart? |
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Lori, I dont think in my time in an exchange shop people have ever made easy money. Laying fallers, betting after the line etc. More than 2 years ago yes probably so.
The 'live' advantage over SIS is considerably more than the SIS advantage over ATR ever was, imo. We're just going round in circles here though so I'll leave it to others to discuss if they want. |
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Exchange shops I have bin in last year all were 1/3 full if that
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Wot absolute tosh.
When the exchange players had racetech raw feeds, they shud have made bundles .. did they bleat then, that it was unfair ? Did they buggery .. the amount of track-side players, has made the in-running mkts more efficient. This is what Bf want. Move with the times. |
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It's a food chain. Nothing more, nothing less.
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New kids on the block using raw streams at home
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agree with heynoodles that the delay from live to sis is more than atr to sis, however, while the markets are now more efficient because there are many more track players there is arguably an imbalance in the liquidity levels at the business end meaning if you are playing at the track you often get poor value bets matched and rest assured there is very little free money...those winning £100k a month are very few in fact i'd say nearer £15-40k is norm and expenses are upwards of £3-6k a mth
many of the people who started out in trading shops 3-4 years ago now have moved to the tracks semi/full-time or have had to change the way they play...ie play alot further out....their earnings have dropped as their edge has been eroded but while turf is around they will always be able to play ....however, the tracks now are the new "trading rooms" with some shops having closed down or having to downscale....and it will be interesting to see how things develop over the next 6-18 mths time...imho |
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I never touch in running for exactly all the reasons that are so apparent reading this thread. It's only a question of having all the edges, otherwise it is worse than pointless.
I've no doubt most people think similarly on here, and if there ever was a level field then the markets could be far busier. As someone suggested earlier - like BF actually giving everyone a feed that was pretty much live rather than delayed. |
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As pointed out on the other thread, the bookies offices all have the direct internet feed which will be 300 millisecs after live. If they have it others will have made it their business to get hold of it.
I am amazed how the exchange shop lads who have gone on-course think they are at the cutting edge. Truth is whilst they scoff their mammoth steaks there is a space ship ho  vering above[;)] |
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i watched a race on h1lls site tonight and it was ruk pictures
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noodles. Do u have access 2 RUK
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got ruk at home and at work
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Noodles. This will put the exchange shops out of the game if the feeds takeover. They have the technology now
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If the technology is there why is it not being used
Hopefully in the near future a true level playing field will prevail and this in running game can go to new levels |
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how much do you all think liquidity will increase by with a level playing field throughout?
i would assume if it was in betfairs interest to provide this faster/live service they would do it! As they are not, can we assume they make more in pc charges from the few massive players using the advantage than they would with the 5% crew betting smaller stakes? I would think they know which is most profitable as thats how successful businesses run surely!! |
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I'd love to have your level of optimism in BFs ability to have any sense in running a business.
Most of their decisions are atrocious so not surprised that this would be equally bad. They've already lost a load of liquidity through various decisions. |
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have their profits dropped over the years though? (serious question as i wouldnt know)
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To be honest I really don't know, but I find it hard to see how once thriving markets now with tumbleweed in comparison can be good for their profits.
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Customer loyalty is a very fragile thing, particularly on the internet where a competitor is a click or two away.
Betfair have squandered any of the early loyalty they enjoyed with their ill-conceived and poorly executed "improvements" and their one size fits all management of their helpdesk. Not to mention the PC. Punters follow the money and BF doesn't appreciate how lucky it is to still have it. |
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maybe betfair don't make the call on in-running and its the liquidity providers who decide the make up of the 'food chain'!
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shrewdbury 08 Jun 10 10:01
I'd love to have your level of optimism in BFs ability to have any sense in running a business. I'm no fan of the premium charge and the overall structure of fees. But I imagine Betfair could not have been any more successful in the time frame ie past ten years. They have a virtual monopoly on exchange betting, a situation that is unlikely to change for the next ten years. If they were getting it so badly wrong this would not be the case? |
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Be interesting to see how much "progress" they make in the next 12 months given their apathy to customers.Add to that the lack of investment in making the in running horse racing product fairer to all customers. The World Cup will provide some nice profit for Betfair but they are treading water in my opinion and the drive and energy seems to have gone out of their business.
Complacency can lead to disaster and companies with great short term growth can collapse quickly - Northern Rock is a classic example of management complacency. |
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I think Betfair published research into this for the Gambling Commission investigation that proved that inrunning betting on Betfair is fair. The number of players with fast pictures actually makes the market more efficient and fairer for at home players I think was the conclusion.
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If Betfair have spoken then it must be true
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That market more efficient statement bemuses me - my friend went to back the leader approaching 2 out on SIS @ 1.3 - got matched at 1000 and then the horse duly fell.
Is this efficiency in action? You get matched at 1000 on bets where you couldnt win (apart from the once-a-year commentator error maybe)? A couple of points from Tony Calvin now ive had time to let them sink in fully. They feel the picture delays are an issue for ATR and RUK not them - they just manage the markets. The warnings are clear and its upto people if they still want to bet. He said he was happy to defend bf anywhere in the media over the way they manage the ir markets. Regarding the pics on this site he didnt think the technology was there for them to be faster at present - but he added that he is not an expert in that field. He wouldnt discuss their suspension policy but in general he felt bf are more open than most companies. He agreed some people are winning big at the track but said plenty of people go there and lose - therefore its not easy money and unfair. That brought a wry smile because it is an argument prev used by shop players so fair do's. |
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He also said more customers complain about exchange shops than on course players, strangely enough.
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More efficient ,lol, for who?
Yes certainly for those creaming off those who don't mind betting on a horse after it has already fallen. |
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heynoodles 02 Jun 10 16:31
''Btw the cvnts have took 27k of premium charge off me for this wonderful service.'' Do u not have to be making a fair bit of money to pay that? |
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Betfair are full of sh1te. Do they really expect anyone with half a clue to believe that efficient market drivel? Are the course players paying all those expenses for the privelege of giving us true odds? Does the existence of an on course loser imply there's no advantage? A betfair boffin once claimed that there were more pre-off punters unaware they might be playing against more accomplished form students than there was ir punters unaware of the delays. That's what betfair think of us. The obviously had it too easy in the city.
As for defending ir to the media. They really stuck to their 'caveat emptor' guns (not) when DJ went to the news of the world about them taking bets on phone in votes right up to the result. No surprise that a lot of the liquidity on those events come from 'course players'. Anyone who thinks their odds were "efficient" you should be working for betfair. |
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A couple of points from Tony Calvin now ive had time to let them sink in fully.
They feel the picture delays are an issue for ATR and RUK not them - they just manage the markets. The warnings are clear and its upto people if they still want to bet. He said he was happy to defend bf anywhere in the media over the way they manage the ir markets. BOLLOX - Who would benefit most from quicker pictures ? Why do ATR need to speed up their pictures ? Sounds like Betfair want to do NOWT and keep taking the commission (imo of course)  |
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I agree with last few posters but I think he felt shop/sis players were hypocritical using these arguments. Going by earlier posts on the thread most people agree with him.
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it now betfair ten years on thinking that fair pic for all
i for one thinks fair pic for all will bring betfair to the top of the world with pic in every home real time betfair will go oh hey but sad thing is nil had change in 10 years fair pic for all fair pic for all fair pic for all not for the few |
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i think it will come but when
racetech LOCKED real time feed WHAT THIS bbc /ch4 RIP BETFAIR INVESTMENT ??? |