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General Betting
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Just emailed Betfair regarding delays on horseracing in-running - the email took me half an hour to compose and I got this reply: Thank you for your e-mail.
I have attached our rules and regulations below which relate to in-play markets. Please note that we also introduce a betting delay time which will reduce any advantages some customers may get by having a faster live feed or by being at the actual track. They will still need to wait 5 seconds or more for there bets to be placed on the exchange.
1. MANAGING MARKETS IN-PLAY
etc
Btw the cvnts have took 27k of premium charge off me for this wonderful service.
I have attached our rules and regulations below which relate to in-play markets. Please note that we also introduce a betting delay time which will reduce any advantages some customers may get by having a faster live feed or by being at the actual track. They will still need to wait 5 seconds or more for there bets to be placed on the exchange.
1. MANAGING MARKETS IN-PLAY
etc
Btw the cvnts have took 27k of premium charge off me for this wonderful service.
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Replies: 93
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Do Betfair only listen to their big customers?
No, they don't listen to any of their customers. |
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Im probably coming across all 'outraged from tunbridge wells' but when youve spent half an hour writing an email and you get a reply from someone who hasnt even read it its a bit galling.
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to be fair they would read it if they could actually read
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Think yourself lucky you got a reply, I wrote to them on 23rd May and still waiting for a reply :~(
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noodles
post your letter up here and let the forum answer for them |
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Dear Sir
I am writing to complain about the current situation with betting in running from SIS tracks and the huge advantage enjoyed by track players. In your last forum chat it was stated that the track playing advantage was negated by slow internet. However, having spoken to players that have left our exchange shop to go to the course I know for a fact that tracks like Leicester and Wolverhampton etc have internet that is equally as good as one would get at home. This means people at the track are seeing things three seconds ahead of users on SIS and 4 seconds ahead of people on ATR. I don't understand how this is considered acceptable. If people are betting in running on football there is a five second or longer delay so that people can't be fleeced by those at the venue who have already seen a goal for example. Why is this considered ok for horseracing? A horse crossing the line in front is as clear cut as a goal in football, in fact more so. You appear to suspend races virtually 'as live' on SIS and yet we know we are three seconds behind. I feel this is a very short sighted attitude by Betfair and I would like some explanation as to why you think it is acceptable. Any publicity about the amounts these people are winning is surely bad publicity for Betfair. Also, with the huge amounts being won by track players (100k a month doesn't seem to be that abnormal incredibly) I am concerned this will see the premium charge being increased. I totally understand that the idea of exchange shop punters complaining about delays is probably seen as hypocritical or sour grapes but we have never, ever enjoyed an advantage like the one the current track players have. Is it not possible to speed up the pictures being used on BF live video - and if ATR or SIS are proving a hindrance to this should it not be publicised? Thanks you for your time. ---------------------------------- satisfactory reply? Thank you for your e-mail. I have attached our rules and regulations below which relate to in-play markets. Please note that we also introduce a betting delay time which will reduce any advantages some customers may get by having a faster live feed or by being at the actual track. They will still need to wait 5 seconds or more for there bets to be placed on the exchange. |
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Sounds like sour grapes to me. You weren't complaining when the shop players were the quickest in the market and ahead of the TV players but when someone leapfrogs your speed edge you now complain about unfair it all is.
All's fair in love, war and Betfair. The track players aren't cheating they just want the quickest possible way of getting the information that's already in the public domain. What would you like Betfair to do about it? Ban in running? |
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They could suspend the races live is that too much to ask?
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Its not sour grapes I just dont agree with people making these huge amounts with very little skill. My profits have been consistent for the last 30 months.
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Should they have the expense of sending an employee to every race course or just suspend everything half a furlong out?
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For an easy tax free £1,200,000 a year perhaps you should go to the tracks?
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At the moment im happy with the easy life - but that doesnt make whats going on fair. Its an absolute racket.
Some big winners from our shop could very well switch to the track in the winter and once theyve done it I doubt they will return. |
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Well you can't be doing too bad if you prefer the easy life to an easy tax free £1,200,000 a year going to the tracks.
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I am surprised you are posting on here, noodles?
How many sis players complained on here and to sis/ atr when atr extra was being broadcast at the same speed as sis? If those currently making 100k per month on track are devoid of skill, surely that would mean a skillfull player could earn double or treble that amount? |
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Im not saying anyone can win 100k a month - im just saying these sorts of amounts are not abnormal. I dont play to big stakes so would be unlikely to win that much.
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Well I've never been to an exchange shop or played in running on course, so can't comment on that. However, I think the point you make is a fair one. If the playing field is not level, it's not fair. However, I'm not sure exactly what Betfair can do about it. If you put in a 5 second delay, then that applies to everyone and those on course are still ahead of the game.
On the reply that Betfair (no)helpdesk) sent you, I am not surprised. Only written to them a few times over the years and the one consistent thing over those years has been just how poor the relies have been. Betfair are NEVER at fault, so that's always their first stance. After that, they usually prove that they don't understand how the exchange works, or that anyone uses it in a way other than putting on a simple win bet. The concept of trading and the like is completely beyond their understanding. A few years ago I wrote asking them to explain how an in-running lay back had been left unmatched despite odds many ticks shorter had been matched. The reply told me that it was probably to do with the 5 second delay in in-running bets. (On Horse Racing!!)  |
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only the unskilled have need to play in the last furlong imo and would be more than happy if betfair suspended ir at the furlong marker......from the few big players I've come across they tend to take position as the race begins to take shape 3f to 2f out and expect to make 2k to 6k daily which is possible if you put the work in and none of them are track players.
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Seems to me you're more worried about losing customers than levelling the playing field. Not likely to get much sympathy on here complaining that others now have a better advantage than you do, they're doing nothing different than you did when setting up the exchange shop just looking to give themselves the best edge going for in running.
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Spot on massive
...You weren't complaining when the shop players were the quickest in the market and ahead of the TV players |
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agree with other posters; you have no case.
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Ghetto Joe I didnt set up an exchange shop I just work in one.
Secondly ive only been going for 2 and a half years hardly the golden period for an advantage on SIS. Thirdly if SIS users cant discuss delays etc without being accused of self interest who can discuss it? We are the main players in the market. Btw I have so much self interest I boycotted leicester on monday despite a feed. The self interest thing amuses me no end because im sure im known among other ir players as saying too much on the forum. ie dont reveal this, dont reveal that, dont mention delays etc etc Which one is it self interest or giving away too much info lol. Regardless of what anyone thinks no one has answered the questions why arent the races suspended live to protect users and what is the point of a 1 second delay if the vast majority are 3 or 4 seconds behind? |
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Ditto the above replies.
sour grapes indeed. if it were that easy to win 100k per month at the track then i would be there today. |
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any more sour grapes i dont think weve established that possibility yet
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Try sending the email again and request attention from a senior support advisor. Carbon copy a few names at the gambling commission and the BHA. You could also cc Greg Wood / Lydia etc. I know the GC are totally useless but one never knows. Maybe even try cc to your local mp / euro mp(s).
gl. ....I am away to the track to make my fortune :) |
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I'm pretty sure here have been some fairly prominent examples when it has been assumed the big customers got their way. Can't remember the full details but something to do with the tie in cricket rings a bell.
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the fact that these delays are happening in ir - horseracing, gives any new punter trying to play at home no chance... therefore its a massive damage to liquidy + its become sharks eating sharks and likly more + more will go out the game.
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cheers muqbil - I did send it again and they replied saying theyd forward it to the Helpdesk duty manager and to be patient for a reply which is fair enough.
What price a sour grapes gets thrown in? |
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heynoodles Joined: 18 Jan 05
Replies: 1800 02 Jun 10 20:00 Dear Sir I am writing to complain about the current situation with betting in running from SIS tracks and the huge advantage enjoyed by track players. In your last forum chat it was stated that the track playing advantage was negated by slow internet. However, having spoken to players that have left our exchange shop to go to the course I know for a fact that tracks like Leicester and Wolverhampton etc have internet that is equally as good as one would get at home. This means people at the track are seeing things three seconds ahead of users on SIS and 4 seconds ahead of people on ATR. I don't understand how this is considered acceptable. If people are betting in running on football there is a five second or longer delay so that people can't be fleeced by those at the venue who have already seen a goal for example. Why is this considered ok for horseracing? A horse crossing the line in front is as clear cut as a goal in football, in fact more so. You appear to suspend races virtually 'as live' on SIS and yet we know we are three seconds behind. I feel this is a very short sighted attitude by Betfair and I would like some explanation as to why you think it is acceptable. Any publicity about the amounts these people are winning is surely bad publicity for Betfair. Also, with the huge amounts being won by track players (100k a month doesn't seem to be that abnormal incredibly) I am concerned this will see the premium charge being increased. I totally understand that the idea of exchange shop punters complaining about delays is probably seen as hypocritical or sour grapes but we have never, ever enjoyed an advantage like the one the current track players have. Is it not possible to speed up the pictures being used on BF live video - and if ATR or SIS are proving a hindrance to this should it not be publicised? Thanks you for your time. That email took you half and hour to compose?  |
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I took half an hour so I wouldnt make too many mistakes like ....
half and hour (imo) |
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so noodles, what steps do you take to ensure that customers in your exchange shop don't have a speed advantage over tv players at home?
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To be fair to bf tony calvin contacted me. Nothing else to add.
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Well
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noodles. This carping on about track players is a bit like our dear capitalist, free marketeering banksters who required a state handout coz they lost at punting!
You have been living off innocent recreational sofa punters for years and now someone is going to eat you. Unfortunately you are not ina position to blackmail as the Banks did to the Government, and Betfair won't bail you out. Anyways you are not totally correct about who is fleecing you. It's mainly people sat at home and in coroprate offices who are watching instant pics via BT, no satellites involved. I also think that you have been bubbled up about whoever says he is on-course getting 1 £1M pa. If anyones doingit they are off-course. The technology exists. BT do the feeds and if you think someone aint watching you are dreaming[;)] My advice is sell or give away the exchange shop  |
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No ones fleecing me, imo. And I dont have an exchange shop lol.
Your other points may be well be correct. |
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heynoodles 03 Jun 10 15:21
I took half an hour so I wouldnt make too many mistakes like .... half and hour (imo) |
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noodles. Sorry I didnt mean you personally but as a group the exchange shop punters are eating recreationals. I think people should recognise that the on-course mob are not the only group severely advantaged in all this.
The age of the super fast non satellite feed is here and there are few who have it. There is no technical, or commercial reason why BF couldn't get it so we can all have a go  |
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Noodles- just as a matter of curiosity what sot of shop do you have? - or do you just mean that it's not your shop?
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I just work in an exchange shop, AR.
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heynoodles 03 Jun 10 18:07
To be fair to bf tony calvin contacted me. Nothing else to add. Did Tony Calvin give you any encouragement that things might get better in the near future ? |