there is literrally 100s if not 1000s of guys on here who are making over a £100,000 a year who have over a 100,000 bets on Betfair a year that don't paid premiun charges.

There is no "some" in that if it is a direct quote. The fact that they use bots are very profitable and dont pay pc is bit fishy aswell. Sounds like someone with an agenda.

Betfair have in their wisdom set the premium charge limit at something low, is it 160 markets a year? That is easily changed if they think they are catching the casual punter. I dont know why they set it so low.

I wouldnt be against it rising to 500-1000 markets a year. An avid punter on football could easily have 10 bets on a weekend and a few more mid week, if it was fairer to the casual punter

I didnt realise that. Dont agree with it, caual punter shouldnt be paying pc imo.

* In addition, their cheat/trader tax must deter new customers.

Have you ever had a bet (in the true sense of the word) on here?

why wouldnt feck have had a proper  bet on here. is he laying the fallers at the track or backing them when they are almost at the line  or something ?

I have had bets but can you tell me of what relevance that is? Are you implying e.g. that I can only hold an opinion on bankers if I have money in a hedge fund or that I'm a hypocrite to think that roofers charging pensioners their life savings to have a slate replaced are s c u m unless my roof's leaking?

First time I've ever been accused of self pwnage Escapee. I didn't get where I am today by indulging in self pwnage.

The 100 pt rule is indicative of the thinking within betfair. Doesn't matter if you've paid millions in commission. Once you've fell victim to pow(0.85,52) you're worthless in the eyes of betfair's trader worshipping boffins. A very silly group of people who couldn't even sell Asian handicaps at 1% commission on profit to Asians because of their stupid stock market interface.

"its not fair..., I'm a victim.... its not fair..."
blah blah, blah blah blah


grow up, grow a pair and stop blaming everyone else for your own shortcoming's

Given this is another pc whinging thread, I'm probably the only person on the thread that post should be directed at.

"Boo hoo hoo. It's not fair that us pc payers pay less than everyone else. Boo hoo hoo. We should only be paying a quarter of that. Boo hoo hoo. We're so important. Boo hoo hoo. It's us that supply all the liquidity. Boo hoo hoo."

"Look at me daddy. I'm adapting my strategy to keep pace with the ever changing market conditions daddy".

"Oh mummy. There's a bad man on here saying I don't supply liquidity. Boo hoo hoo. I'm jolly well going to phone betfair and have him banned."

I'm paying PC tomorrow. Only the second time in 2010 for me.

The thing is that as my balance increases, the return on cash deployed in the markets gets smaller and smaller. Eventually, I will naturally incur more than 20% in commission charges, without PC avoidance strategies, but any PC I pay now, will never be returned.

Year on year my contribution to Betfair as a percentage of GP has increased, without even taking PC into account.

It's only £50 (out of a max possible of close to £600), but it's still a charge that delivers no benefit to me, which is why increasing my commission as a % of GP (without negative impact on absolute returns) is a priority for me, as it is an element related to maximizing profit.

The Investor     18 May 10 21:46 
I'm paying PC tomorrow. Only the second time in 2010 for me.

The thing is that as my balance increases, the return on cash deployed in the markets gets smaller and smaller. Eventually, I will naturally incur more than 20% in commission charges, without PC avoidance strategies, but any PC I pay now, will never be returned.

Year on year my contribution to Betfair as a percentage of GP has increased, without even taking PC into account.

It's only £50 (out of a max possible of close to £600), but it's still a charge that delivers no benefit to me, which is why increasing my commission as a % of GP (without negative impact on absolute returns) is a priority for me, as it is an element related to maximizing profit.

I've been giving it some thought over the last few days.  It's the "increasing my commission as a % of GP (without negative impact on absolute returns)" which I have concluded.  I've thought of a few ways of doing this but they interfere with my strategies and so haven't yet decided whether to implement them.  Do you do this as a matter of course?  And is that how you've only paid PC twice this year? (I've paid it every week since I first paid it a couple of months back).

The really nutty thing about the pc is this. Suppose betfair didn't deduct normal commission and just deducted/rebated after every market so that all winners paid 22.5% of their overall profits. Each Wednesday they then calculated what each person would've paid under the old system for the previous week. If that amount was more than what had already been deducted the customer would be billed for the difference.

1) Everyone would pay more or less what they're paying now.

2) The only people who wouldn't be billed on a Wednesday would be the current pc payers.

3) The current pc payers would stop moaning.

4) Everyone else would start moaning because they'd then realise they were subsidising the middlemen leeches that make up the bulk of 3).

It would almost certainly lead to betfair's demise and how much more rapid would that come about if they were only initially deducting ~5% of overall profits (as was the case for the first 6 or 7 years of betfair)?

Sharp minds my @rse. The imbecilic whinging of those who have the best deal in town is matched only by the stupidity of betfair in implementing such a complex and unfair commission system. At the very least the default commission system should be a small turnover charge so that the average punter is protected from those complexities (this would also suit the occassional players). The rest of us would have to opt in to more complex alternative systems. Betfair would have to reserve the right to force certain customers into alternative systems though as the small turnover charge so they could continue to extract their slice of the action from the cheats they like to accomodate.

The default commission scheme could be along the lines of 2-3% of the smaller of the backer's and layer's liabilities. That would mean betfair would more or less get the equivalent of their current 5% of profit (they would also get this on each bet as opposed to overall market profit). Most of us (winners in particular) would choose to opt in to a more complex scheme. This would maybe consist of something similar to the current scheme but where non liquidity providers would be penalised more (as in my all new liquidity generating premium charge). Implementing this would allow betfair to charge middlemen leeches and cheats say 30% of profits without hurting liquidity providers and without exposing themselves to leech propoganda such as "20% better odds but 30% commission" as everyone would know the default commission was only 2.5% (or whatever).

My last few posts seem to have shut everyone up so I thought the subject deserved a thread of its own. [;)]

feck, mate, i've missed something here.....what is your problem with traders?

thisis, they generally contribute no liquidity but think they supply it all, they pay less commission on profit than any other group yet b1tch continually about it, they often have no knowledge of the sport they're trading on, they clog up the api with their requests for information, they're the biggest hurdle to an interface that doesn't deter large bets, their pretentious would be city boy talk is nauseating, they feck up the trading figures with their ping-pong money ... In short, they're parasitic middlemen who should be flushed down the pan with their financial sector equivalents.

More pantomine stuff from the clown prince of traders.

Bye pres, hope your next training for freedom spell will see you finally released.