betfairs premium charges fiddle

You'll never get them to drop the charges. Hit them where it hurts, take your business elsewhere.

wait til you lose next year.

munkeyhorn. Joined: 09 Jan 04
Replies: 19 16 May 10 23:14 
Taking your business won't hit them anywhere.. as someone else will just take your edge and they'll get the commission anyway

If the person that takes the edge is not a PC payer (which is highly probable) and does not become one as a result, betfair will lose out in this scenario.

No. Let's say that someone is winning £50,000 a month and paying 35% in total charges (commission). They can absorb a substantial amount before their commission generated drops below 20%. Also take into account that if one person leaves and gives up their edge, this may be pounced on by multiple people, rather than just one.

The ratio of Non PC paying winners to PC payers is close to 50/1 according to Betfair, so some variation of this scenario is most likely.

To show what I mean, imagine Betfair decided to close all PC payers accounts. These places would not simply be filled by a new batch of PC payers, as some would assume. Of course there would be some people that would now fall into the PC category, most winners will simply be able to make a little more a little more efficiently, but still generate above 20% commission and Betfair would lose a revenue stream.

I think if your making 50k a month or whatever you should thank your lucky stars.

What would hit betfair quite hard would be all winners becoming premium charge payers. They'd have to increase the premium charge to make up for the fact thst all winners were now on the previously subsidised rate. Betfair must think the sun shines out of your non liquidity providing @rses. The sooner they float and someone with a bit of nous takes over the better.

Feck N. Eejit Joined: 10 Jan 02
Replies: 1110 17 May 10 08:30 
What would hit betfair quite hard would be all winners becoming premium charge payers. They'd have to increase the premium charge to make up for the fact thst all winners were now on the previously subsidised rate. Betfair must think the sun shines out of your non liquidity providing @rses. The sooner they float and someone with a bit of nous takes over the better.

I don't really understand what you mean by that. That all winners are being subsidised?

I find it quite strange that you seem to imply that anyone that pays PC automatically doesn't provide liquidity? If you are able to make markets when there is low liquidity, you can build in a high spread, as no-one else is putting any money up. The fact that there would be diddly-squat traded on this event without someone willing to put money up, proves that liquidity is being provided. If I am willing to put up £10k, knowing that there is a chance that not a penny of it will get matched, and that there is almost zero chance of more than a few grand getting matched, I obviously need a high margin to make it worth my while, which puts me in PC territory. You may argue, that the fact I'm getting a higher than average spread is bad for Betfair, but if this was the case, they shouldn't put the market up in the first place!

I've only paid PC once in 2010, compared to 30+ times in 2009, despite my weekly NET Profit being higher this year. Once I dip below 3% commission, I will be unlikely to pay PC again.

Paying PC is a waste, as you get nothing in return (unlike commission where you get points that have a very real monetary value). I'm on 20% generated now, so the PC is likely to kick in again.

In any case, as I become a 'bigger customer' as measured by my commission discount rate, I expect my absolute gains to increase but my overall edge to go down. This in combination with a lower commission rate, should make it a lot easier to avoid PC altogether.

Feck N. Eejit Joined: 10 Jan 02
Replies: 1112 17 May 10 08:30 
What would hit betfair quite hard would be all winners becoming premium charge payers. They'd have to increase the premium charge to make up for the fact thst all winners were now on the previously subsidised rate. Betfair must think the sun shines out of your non liquidity providing @rses. The sooner they float and someone with a bit of nous takes over the better.

I provide a lot of liquidity for lots of markets on Betfair.  Yet I have been penalised thousands in PC since it was brought in.

A pc thread wouldn't be complete without Fecking idiot spouting his usual brand of complete and utter cobblers about people who provide most of the liquidity, without which betfair would struggle to exist.

A sad, pathetic, bitter, twisted individual who talks complete and utter crap due to his jealousy of those who are more successfull than himself (which isn't saying much)

He still hasn't got the brains to work out how outrageously unfair this additional tax is for many reasons, so he tries to cover up his ignorance by predictable tirades.

Sad, very sad.

A pc thread wouldn't be complete without Fecking idiot spouting his usual brand of complete and utter cobblers about people who provide most of the liquidity, without which betfair would struggle to exist.

A sad, pathetic, bitter, twisted individual who talks complete and utter crap due to his jealousy of those who are more successfull than himself (which isn't saying much)

He still hasn't got the brains to work out how outrageously unfair this additional tax is for many reasons, so he tries to cover up his ignorance by predictable tirades.

Sad, very sad.

A post chock full of reasons why we should let these self-important, delusionals fuds go back to paying 4% of their profits. Until I read it I thought they provided zilch in liquidity but the sublime logic in this clown's post has put me right.

As a big winner Feck, what would you say is an appropriate charge on your winnings? At what point would you stop betting on here?

ICS, I don't know but 22.5% sounds like heaven.

I think it clear now the Premiun Charges are now hitting even the poor Joe Soaps of betfair.

Everyweek some new guy appears on here asking in bewildredment
what all this premiun charges stuff is about after getting charged or a notice.

Surely even FECK can't claim HUTGRAZE the owner of this thread is some sort of major gambler considering he's now 8 years on here and is only now getting hit for premiun charges 2 years after they were introduced.

No sadly he one of many average punters like myself who now get hit. Just looking at my account in 10 years I averages a 165 bets a year.

If you believe David Zeffman head of gambling at law firm Olwang and member of Lord Donoghues Future Funding of Racing Review group in his Racing Post article. He claims there is literrally 100s if not 1000s of guys on here who are making over a £100,000 a year who have over a 100,000 bets on Betfair a year that don't paid premiun charges.

He even goes on to say he believes Betfair faciltates these guys with Betfair own developers programmes. Which makes it very hard to understand why littles guys like HUTGRAZE on here get penalised for hitting a lucky patch

Or guys like myself who had a average of 1 bet every 2 days for the last 10 years is left to top up Betfair profits.

As for customers leaving there must be a fair bunch of ex betfairians out there now for somebody who will eventually decide to start up a rival exchange and that surelys must be the first thing a rival would look too if thinking of starting a new exchange or revamping a old one....hmnn..Cheers

We subsidise them, they leach off our information and we'll end up getting taxed because of them.

Brendanuk1 - was on page 8 of the Post Tuesday 11th May. Can't get a link up from the site as I'm not in the members club.

Byline: David Ashforth

"BHA BHA butylated hydroxyanisole, an antioxidant used in foods, cosmetics, and pharmaceuticals that contain fats or oils.
BHA
n.
A white, waxy phenolic antioxidant used to preserve fats and oils, especially in foods.  CHAIRMAN Paul Roy has suggested a new approach to a new government in a bid to ensure punters acting as professional layers on betting exchanges contribute to the levy that funds horseracing.

Roy was reacting to a legal assessment by gambling expert David Zeffman of the long-running row between bookmakers and exchanges over claims that some layers operate as unlicensed bookmakers, free from the tax and levy payments made by bookmakers.

Zeffman, head of gambling and sport at law firm Olswang, wrote in the Racing Post The Racing Post is a British daily horse racing, greyhound racing and sports betting newspaper. It is owned by Sheikh Mohammed and published under a 10 year lease by Trinity Mirror.  on Tuesday that "behind all the myths, the legal reality is relatively straightforward". That reality, Zeffman suggested, is that is is "very likely that some users are conducting themselves as a business and therefore have a liability to pay both levy and betting duty".

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Roy was one of the Levy Board members who unveiled last month a cut of pounds 4.6 million in the budget for 2010 in the light of revised forecasts of income from bookmakers. Revenue for this year is expected to be pounds 87.4m, compared to pounds 91.1m forecast last September, a figure also revised downwards to take into account betting operators moving their internet sportsbooks offshore.

Roy said: "We are not just going to sit here and watch professionals operating on the exchanges, in business, negotiating and taking bets when they are not licensed and not paying tax and levy.

"If someone is doing 1,000 bets an hour and they are setting up the technology in what is effectively a trading room The notion of "trading room" (sometimes used as a synonym of "trading floor", see below) is widely used in financial markets to refer to the office space where market activities are concentrated in investment banks or brokerage houses.  on a racecourse, you tell me whether they are in business or not.

"Things have moved on since the treasury review of 2004-05. At that time they stated there wasn't sufficient evidence. Well, if there isn't sufficient evidence now I don't know when there will be because it is staring you in the face."

Referring to the government's concern that taxing exchange layers would raise the prospect of gamblers seeking to offset losses against other income for tax purposes, Roy said: "I think the government is losing out on tax but that is another issue. I'm only interested in the levy and I know that these people should be paying levy."

Martin Cruddace, Betfair's legal director and company secretary, accused Zeffman of lacking impartiality because of a link between Olswang and the BHA, claiming it "devalues his position as an independent commentator".

Cruddace added: "Many of his legal arguments do not stand up to scrutiny. Betfair's position has been made clear to the relevant authorities and is publicly available on our corporate website. None of those authorities has yet to be persuaded by the counter-arguments of either the BHA or William Hill The name William Hill may refer to the following: People

    * William Hill (Australian politician) (1866-1939), a long serving member of the Australian House of Representatives.

, which get no better for repetition, made as they kiss and cuddle under the duvet du·vet 
n.
A quilt, usually with a washable cover, that may be used in place of a bedspread and top sheet.


[French, down, from Old French, alteration of dumet, diminutive of dum, dun  together."

Dismissing the accusation A formal criminal charge against a person alleged to have committed an offense punishable by law, which is presented before a court or a magistrate having jurisdiction to inquire into the alleged crime.  of impartiality, Zeffman said: "While it is true that Olswang are advising the BHA in relation to exchanges and the levy, it is also true that I started looking at these questions long before we were instructed by the BHA. The accuracy of my analysis is not affected by whether or not I'm instructed by a client. I'd have reached the same conclusions if Betfair had asked me to look at this and I'm happy to debate my analysis with them."

Here ya go Brendan.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/FRANK+EXCHANGES%3b+'The+main+reason+for+a+fall+in+levy+receipts+is+the...-a0225909772

FECK...I be happy for Betfair to just leave it the way it was.
If it ain broke don't try to fix it.

Flip sake Betfair according to their own accounts printed in the Racing Post and on Google they made £303 million last year at a cost of £47 million. Thats nearly a 80% profit on Sales.

In a recession why look for even more? Especially off Mickey Mouse players like myself and HUTGRAZE and many more like us.

A guy is entiled to some return for all the hours a lot of us put in on here just pr1cking around with little bets.

Still on the postive side my weekends have now become that again, (weekends) since Betfair brought in the premiun charge I just don't bother now wasting them anymore on here......Cheers

100s or 1000s making 100,000 bets a year sounds like pure speculation to. That volume of bets can only be done via a bot, so means 100s or 1000s of users with very profitable bots.

Doesnt sound right to me.