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Tell Dell .... just read that line from Thin And Crispy .. ask him did he ever make £400 k selling a system ....... Clive did ..
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1970 400k was a lot of money zzzzzzzzzzz
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Hey you can have my system for 10k back and lay ... 90% spot on .. most days ...
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i used to use fineform and tweaked it several times to make it pay to an extent..however thin and crispy does make some valid points
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Zip - think he made a lot more than £400 k
full-page adverts for years in the sporting press, and I know for fact he sold over 100,000 copies, think it was £15 a copy, then £20 etc.. Less advertising costs, less printing costs etc. etc. surely must have made a lot more than £400 k. (?) he was a clever chap, knew what he was doing, knew the strength of it how to market it and getting the adverts right etc. etc. In those days no other tipsters were using full-page adverts like that, and he was doing it for years. He had experience selling systems in the past when he use to advertise in the old Sporting Chronicle Handicap Book. So knew how to get it right. Clever chap. |
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Tell Dell zips been in this game 50 years plus seen em all .. but Clive was peanuts .. ok he made £ 400.k.... selling a dream .. you say a lot more maybe a million ... Take Timeform Phil Bull ... sold zillions of race cards and the black book ..
Full of Big P little P....... may improve top rated bla bla bla ... now you can have it for nowt on here .. nowt is about right IMO .. thats all its worth ... But Phil Bull God bless him .. Was like Clive selling a Dream ....zzzzzzz |
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Got to go now ..... racing is about to start ...... money to be won .. and no i dont take any notice of Timeform .....good luck be lucky zzzzz
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agree with you Zip, and also when Phil Bull started Timeform
it wasn't him doing the ratings it was D1ck Whitford - who deserves a lot of credit. And Phil Bull was only doing the commentaries in Timeform at the start. Apparently Bull said to Whitford, "This is going to make us a lot of money." He was half-right, it certainly made him a lot of money, but Bull and Whitford split-up early on, then years later Whitford was doing the ratings in the Sporting Life. |
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His book made for a good read but as others have said he was simply selling the dream to those who wanted spend all day at the racetrack backing winners. The rating formula could have been developed by a 10 year old really, very similiar to another well known dreamweaver's method namely VDW. The CH tipping lines did land some high profile gambles though it has to be said they were often the steamer of the day anyway,but i knew of several fearsome losing runs with plenty of odds on losers to boot. No doubt he was nice guy but he his lifestyle was paid for by those books which sold in the thousands, not through any betting formula he believed he had.
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Who was the other guy who would take out a full page in the Sporting Life on Saturday's and Weekender with his weekend double? ..
Was it Martin Wells? What was going on there? He seemed to claim getting a 45/1, 80/1, 120/1 double every other week |
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just googled Alan Carfax because I recalled Wells and Carfax had similar formats, seems they were/are the same (scammer)
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no wonder very few win on betfair and in clives day on the racecourse, for £15 he sold a book that gave punters ideas and a idea of the hard work they would have to put in to make it pay, not one on this thread would know about that. now that is a fact.
The disrespect shown to someone who was way ahead of his time in this cesspit of losers here on betfair speaks volumes, not one of you would be good enough to even tie his shoelaces. he would reguard folks like thin as born losers that he could never help, one thing i do know is that if anyone ever complained about his books or service he would refund without question. the sign of a genuine person and service. just a pity he cant defend himself against lifes losers. |
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^ No disrespect to the guy at all, and I haven't said anything that isn't true.
I did know Clive Holt from way back in the early 70's when he was living in Lancaster. This is when he was selling systems in the old Sporting Chronicle Handicap Book, and way before he done the book. At the time he was just another tipster, but he was quicker and sharper than most. But basically he was a chancer who got lucky. This extract from another thread on here sums him up pretty well, " The conclusion on Clive Holt was that if you followed the Fine form formula in the long run you would lose and if you phoned his telephone lines in the long run you would lose money. Holt made most of his money by selling the dream, in his books, that you too could live the live of a pro punter.. Unfortunately it wasn't true just like the extravagant claims he made in his ads.." No question of disrespect, it's just the facts, admire him for making a fortune, but as others have said on here, he was selling the dream. He knew what he was doing and he was good at it. |
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Know All - I stated i thought it was a good read,but it was not a route to making money from racing,only for the author. The idea of his formula basically came down to the same format as another renowned supposed authority on racing VDW. It was using placings as a rating with additional points for a course or distance win. What racing enthusiast at some stage or another hasn't tried similiar basic ideas with racing data? At the end of the day his book kept selling because as i said it was written in a beguiling style that convinced the reader that here was a man who had left his boring job to become a professional punter and succeeded. Much like the writings of VDW who has since been exposed as fraud living in very modest surroundings. Their literature should be filed with all those self help books on life and business. The only cash made from them is by the authors and publishers.
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The Alan Carfax,Martin Wells ads crept up from time to time along with several other pseudonyms the man in question used. Often the selections were in the same races and of course different horses in those races. Some of the other tipster names used were Gerald Swaine and i think M Harrington though i'm relying on distant memory here. To be fair the selections were sent by post before final decs were known and some decent priced winners went in (Sabrehill first time up drifting out to 8/1 from 3s as i remember) but later the services gradually went phone line format. Who was the man behind these lines? I always suspected it was a phone tipster using the name John Blake but i don't know if that really was true.
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Miginvest . I agree with your comments ..100%.......... Pro Punters are as rare has the Snow Leopard in your local village .. Pro Layers / Bookies are 10 a penny ..
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Tipsters .. Any you guys remember . .Prince Monalulu His call was I gota sure winner ..I gota hores .. I gota horse ... he was at all the big meeting and made a good living out of his tips .. what a charachter he was ..
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mginvest
".........it was written in a beguiling style that convinced the reader that here was a man who had left his boring job to become a professional punter and succeeded. " You are absolutely right, and despite any claims in the book, - and I knew him in the early 70's before he done his first book - and he certainly didn't leave work to become a professional gambler, he made his fortune selling that book not backing horses. 'Selling the dream' is a perfect description of what he done. |
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anybody remember alan carfax
sent 2 tips every saturday by letter advised 2singles and double i won thousands with this guy |
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anyone remember the dawson system
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Tell Dell ... In this life ... Dreams are Free .. Rest you pay for ......
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Tell Dell - I'm sure he was a well meaning guy and apparently his first tipster operation did quite well. Did you work with him in the 70s or just a friend?
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Some great names from the 80's / 90's on this thread
from the murky world of horse tipping . Most o them were indeed the same guy . As for John Blake i could type a fair bit about him but i'd expect the thread would be pulled so best not . As most people have said the only people making money out of all this is the person selling the tips /info etc . Sadly even nowadays some people stil fall for it .Greed . |
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mginvest - I knew him in the early 70's and when I moved South
we kept in touch for a few years on the phone and letters. Didn't work with him, but I was running a small tipping service and he was selling racing systems in the Sporting Chronicle H'Cap book, and that was how I got to know him through racing and both of us doing the same thing. Then a short time later when I got to see his book, and some of his claims etc.....a bit expedient with the truth. A Fantasy Believer selling the dream. With his previous experience as a tipster he knew exactly what to do and how to do it. And basically he really hit the jackpot with that book. Fair play to him, clever chap, but having known the guy, I think I can honestly say that at the start he never expected to make a fortune selling that book, it was just like selling another racing system, but this idea might be a bit more profitable sort of thing. So he just went with it, he knew the game and how to play it. In the end sold over 100,000 copies. RIP |
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mginvest
Where/when was vdw ' exposed as a fraud living in modest surroundings'. Just curious. |
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RW - I can remember him being exposed but
can't recall all the details but i think it was a bit of a sad tale . |
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Never heard about that
Nevertheless still make plenty using his ideas plus a lot of hard graft ;) |
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I can remember him from the Raceform Handicap book
and from what i can recall it seemed a load of old tripe ! |
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Everyone to their own opinion and I have no wish to convince you otherwise but I know it works for me.
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ok , tbh i've forgotten a lot of what he said but
if it's working for you then good luck to you and carry on with it . |