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A few weeks ago I posted asking to see if anybody who uses BetAngel had noticed a change in the market on Match Odds - Football
After using my system for about 2 years, this change happened on Monday 17th Febuary and had a significant affect on how i traded on Betfair - virtually wiping out all the oppurtunties I was ever presented with but i couldnt understand how or why this had happened as it didnt seem possible.
From there i tried several tests to see what would happen when i inserted bets into a market that would have created an opportunity for me
Below is an example of this: -
On the market of Atalanta V Siena -
the odds of Atalanta were 3.4 to back and 3.45 to lay
the odds of Sienna were at 5.9 to back and 9.0 to Lay
the odds of the draw were 1.77 to back and 1.8 to lay
the percentage on the back side read 102.9
the percentage on the lay side read 95.7
I then inserted a back of 2 at 6.0 on Sienna which obviously wasnt available, had this bet become available for somebody else to lay, it would have created a percentage of 101.2 on the lay side
This bet however never became available for somebody to lay, it was just fully matched, I could only assume at the time by somebody or something at Betfair.
I tested this numerous times on different Match odds markets and had the same outcome, any other markets did not react in the same way.
Since then I have been advised from an independant source that on the above date a new system was put in by betfair where in which they are matching bets by laying them off on the other outcomes and this may become apparent across the board on betfair. This seems hard to understand to me for 3 reasons:-
Firstly, in my eyes they are surely preventing Betfair users from seeing the best available price if they are taking a bet that would send the market percentage over/underround and laying it off on the other outcomes
Secondly, does this mean they are still acting as an exchange or are they venturing towards bookmaking territory
Thirdly, If a bet was mistakenly entered into the market at silly odds, lets say a back of 1.06 on a side that were 6/1 to back, how can betfair lay it off on the other sides?
I would like to say that ive managed to speak to someone at betfair myself about this, but after various emails sent to integrity@betfair.com, emails to info@betfair.com and various phone calls to be fobbed off by the betfair customer service team, i havnt.
And if im wrong and infact betfair are not doing anything wrong at all, surely it would have been nice of them to share with its customers a change that would have such a significant effect on such a huge market.
After using my system for about 2 years, this change happened on Monday 17th Febuary and had a significant affect on how i traded on Betfair - virtually wiping out all the oppurtunties I was ever presented with but i couldnt understand how or why this had happened as it didnt seem possible.
From there i tried several tests to see what would happen when i inserted bets into a market that would have created an opportunity for me
Below is an example of this: -
On the market of Atalanta V Siena -
the odds of Atalanta were 3.4 to back and 3.45 to lay
the odds of Sienna were at 5.9 to back and 9.0 to Lay
the odds of the draw were 1.77 to back and 1.8 to lay
the percentage on the back side read 102.9
the percentage on the lay side read 95.7
I then inserted a back of 2 at 6.0 on Sienna which obviously wasnt available, had this bet become available for somebody else to lay, it would have created a percentage of 101.2 on the lay side
This bet however never became available for somebody to lay, it was just fully matched, I could only assume at the time by somebody or something at Betfair.
I tested this numerous times on different Match odds markets and had the same outcome, any other markets did not react in the same way.
Since then I have been advised from an independant source that on the above date a new system was put in by betfair where in which they are matching bets by laying them off on the other outcomes and this may become apparent across the board on betfair. This seems hard to understand to me for 3 reasons:-
Firstly, in my eyes they are surely preventing Betfair users from seeing the best available price if they are taking a bet that would send the market percentage over/underround and laying it off on the other outcomes
Secondly, does this mean they are still acting as an exchange or are they venturing towards bookmaking territory
Thirdly, If a bet was mistakenly entered into the market at silly odds, lets say a back of 1.06 on a side that were 6/1 to back, how can betfair lay it off on the other sides?
I would like to say that ive managed to speak to someone at betfair myself about this, but after various emails sent to integrity@betfair.com, emails to info@betfair.com and various phone calls to be fobbed off by the betfair customer service team, i havnt.
And if im wrong and infact betfair are not doing anything wrong at all, surely it would have been nice of them to share with its customers a change that would have such a significant effect on such a huge market.
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Betfair Customer Services 11 Mar 18:32
Betfair is trialling an improved bet matching process. This work is ongoing and will affect a limited but growing number of markets, although horse racing markets are at present not affected. As there has been speculation about what this change involves we wanted to explain what is happening.
Previously we would only attempt to match customer bet requests against unmatched bets of the opposing bet type (backs vs. lays) on the same runner in the same market. That part of the bet matching process remains unchanged. Where there is no opposing bet to match on the same selection, rather than just leaving a customer's bet request unmatched, we will now attempt to match the bet request against unmatched bets on other runners.
For example in addition to matching back bets against lay bets we can from time to time match customer back bet requests across all selections, or customer lay bet requests across all selections. The effect of this change is that customer bet requests will stand a greater chance of being matched.
There will be circumstances where a customer bet request could be matched by either process. In this case priority will always be given to matching in the traditional way, back vs. lay, and the process for matching those bets is identical to the way this was done previously. Where a market is turned in-play and bets are subject to an in-play delay this also remains unaltered. Bets will only become available to be matched once the in-play delay has expired: backs vs. lays first followed by matching across selections where no other match was possible.
Previously if a customer requested a bet that we could not match against an opposing bet (back vs. lay) then that bet could only be matched at the price requested. Because we have not changed the existing matching process of back bets vs. lay bets that remains the case, although we expect to introduce price improvement where possible across selections too in future.
For customers with questions on how this change will affect them we will run a Q&A session on the forum at a date to be announced shortly.
Betfair is trialling an improved bet matching process. This work is ongoing and will affect a limited but growing number of markets, although horse racing markets are at present not affected. As there has been speculation about what this change involves we wanted to explain what is happening.
Previously we would only attempt to match customer bet requests against unmatched bets of the opposing bet type (backs vs. lays) on the same runner in the same market. That part of the bet matching process remains unchanged. Where there is no opposing bet to match on the same selection, rather than just leaving a customer's bet request unmatched, we will now attempt to match the bet request against unmatched bets on other runners.
For example in addition to matching back bets against lay bets we can from time to time match customer back bet requests across all selections, or customer lay bet requests across all selections. The effect of this change is that customer bet requests will stand a greater chance of being matched.
There will be circumstances where a customer bet request could be matched by either process. In this case priority will always be given to matching in the traditional way, back vs. lay, and the process for matching those bets is identical to the way this was done previously. Where a market is turned in-play and bets are subject to an in-play delay this also remains unaltered. Bets will only become available to be matched once the in-play delay has expired: backs vs. lays first followed by matching across selections where no other match was possible.
Previously if a customer requested a bet that we could not match against an opposing bet (back vs. lay) then that bet could only be matched at the price requested. Because we have not changed the existing matching process of back bets vs. lay bets that remains the case, although we expect to introduce price improvement where possible across selections too in future.
For customers with questions on how this change will affect them we will run a Q&A session on the forum at a date to be announced shortly.
These betair ads are doing my head in. Betting as it should be indeed. Matching other peoples bets apparently. No mention of the overround snatching miiddleman in the adverts oddly enough.
Betting as it was before betfair introduced this thieving bot more like.
Betting as it was before betfair introduced this thieving bot more like.
Got an automated holding reply from the gambling commission at 22.55 last nigt promising a response within 3 days.
'Thank you for contacting the Gambling Commission. We acknowledge receipt of your email and will respond within 3 working days. Please note that initially we may contact you to obtain further information to enable us to respond appropriately and accurately.
If you need to contact us urgently please telephone 0121 230 6666.'
'Thank you for contacting the Gambling Commission. We acknowledge receipt of your email and will respond within 3 working days. Please note that initially we may contact you to obtain further information to enable us to respond appropriately and accurately.
If you need to contact us urgently please telephone 0121 230 6666.'
sounds more like five days to me....do you reckon you'll hear from them before easter?
The Betfair 'bot' doesn't appear to be operating in the England vs New Zealand 2nd Test match. Would anyone hazard a guess as to why not? Are they worried about upsetting the TGC?
Aussie market - the bot hasn't infested their rugby yet either
people say feedback is wanted and bf are watching so heres mine. all been said already by others i'm sure - its a big thread.
this is supposed to be a trading platform so the platform operator shouldnt be getting involved. if someone chooses to back when they could do 0.5% better with 2 lays this should be no concern of the platform operator whose function is facilitate trades and otherwise to sit quietly and trouser commission.
if i was a bf shareholder i would be very alarmed as this change hurts the bot operators (not me) and other traders who make the markets and provide the liquidity which give near 100% markets on here, which bring in the punters (and so the commission). the other exchanges now have an opportunity to tempt a lot of p issed off betfair market makers to move across, if only to make a point. surely the opportunity they have been waiting for.
commercially, why is bf annoying the backbone of its income so much just to save the odd financially unaware punter who would create a tiny overround with an overaggressive back the odd penny he wont even notice he saved? after all bf says is about best execution not their own skimming.
careful bf guys before you kill the goose thats laying these golden eggs for you.
this is supposed to be a trading platform so the platform operator shouldnt be getting involved. if someone chooses to back when they could do 0.5% better with 2 lays this should be no concern of the platform operator whose function is facilitate trades and otherwise to sit quietly and trouser commission.
if i was a bf shareholder i would be very alarmed as this change hurts the bot operators (not me) and other traders who make the markets and provide the liquidity which give near 100% markets on here, which bring in the punters (and so the commission). the other exchanges now have an opportunity to tempt a lot of p issed off betfair market makers to move across, if only to make a point. surely the opportunity they have been waiting for.
commercially, why is bf annoying the backbone of its income so much just to save the odd financially unaware punter who would create a tiny overround with an overaggressive back the odd penny he wont even notice he saved? after all bf says is about best execution not their own skimming.
careful bf guys before you kill the goose thats laying these golden eggs for you.
Bf could have started doing this quite a while back, my theory on why they have started is down to simple economics. The current owners of Bf are desperate for a public floatation of the company, and to get the best price for their stock they need to produce a decent set of results to the City. No doubt Bf is a wonderful profitable business.....but have you compared the earnings with the likes of BillHills and L.adcrooks?
bad time to float a betting business, have you seen how cheap the other twos shares are? time to buy them imo.
it would take a good year to roll an IPO out ( i have worked in the arena for a few years ) and in that time Bf would need to be extracting every last penny they can to make this a viable stock option.
Talking about the aussie market - their regulator would probably tell them where to shove this idea :).
Over a week gone now, when will the Q&A take place?
I would prefer to have a reply from the Gambling Commission first and they have promised me that by next Monday (3 working days from Wednesday night).
still not even willing to tell us which markets are subject to the betfair bot? why the need to mention that it isn't operating onhorse racing at present but no positive info on what it is operating on? why can't betfair at least be more upfront about this affront?
Agree Charlatan, its beyond belief. Its one thing implementing this controversial new software in such a disgusting underhand way, but to then refuse to tell users which rules they are playing to in a market is mindblowing and so far removed from the GC's remit of ensuring that betting is 'fair and open' that you really have to question the sanity of those making these decisions.
Useless standard letter reply from the GC. Rang and emailed them and they have promised to respond on Monday.
My question is whether they napproved this skimming bot before betfair introduced it.
A factual question which requires an answer, If they give a non-factual answer I'm pretty convinced that they are f@cked.
My question is whether they napproved this skimming bot before betfair introduced it.
A factual question which requires an answer, If they give a non-factual answer I'm pretty convinced that they are f@cked.
Call me naive but I can't believe they have knowingly approved this and understood 100% what this matching engine does by using the no delay advantage to skim from their customers for profit reasons only.
The GC told me they hadn't approved this.
The GC told me they hadn't approved this.
I don't see why betfair have to submit anything to the GC as long as they stick to the rules. Maybe they have, in which case it is up to the GC to implement new rules so that betfair meet their objectives.
Or they could just hand over their responsibility to the FSA with regard to betting exchanges.
Or they could just hand over their responsibility to the FSA with regard to betting exchanges.
medemi
betfairs terms and conditions include 'best execution'. betfair are not complying.
betfairs terms and conditions include 'best execution'. betfair are not complying.
Betfair will probably receive a warning then, although a fine would be more in place when you consider how much money is involved.
How much are betfair skimming, would 5K a day be a reasonable estimate given thay haven't rolled it out on horse racing yet ?
And will the victims of this episode ever receive compensation ?
How much are betfair skimming, would 5K a day be a reasonable estimate given thay haven't rolled it out on horse racing yet ?
And will the victims of this episode ever receive compensation ?
in fact i would say that 1 big tennismatch can bring them even 20K.
The definition of 'best execution' has changed with the arrival of this bot, imo.
Previously it meant that I would get the best available odds to available stakes in the appropriate column i.e. back or lay for each bet at the time I placed it. Everyone seemed happy with that.
Now though it means that betfair can obtain that price or better by means of combined backing or laying of other selections in the same market or a directly related market.
That better price (which is truly best execution, imo) is not yet being passed on to their customers. No doubt betfair would prefer the first definition; we prefer the second, but at least betfair have indicated that they'll move to the latter soon. Let's hope so.
Previously it meant that I would get the best available odds to available stakes in the appropriate column i.e. back or lay for each bet at the time I placed it. Everyone seemed happy with that.
Now though it means that betfair can obtain that price or better by means of combined backing or laying of other selections in the same market or a directly related market.
That better price (which is truly best execution, imo) is not yet being passed on to their customers. No doubt betfair would prefer the first definition; we prefer the second, but at least betfair have indicated that they'll move to the latter soon. Let's hope so.
long post, can some one explain whats going on in simple laymans terms please. why all the controversy ?
the optimist 15 Mar 10:19
Useless standard letter reply from the GC. Rang and emailed them and they have promised to respond on Monday.
My question is whether they napproved this skimming bot before betfair introduced it.
it was according the betfair Q&A posted on here
Useless standard letter reply from the GC. Rang and emailed them and they have promised to respond on Monday.
My question is whether they napproved this skimming bot before betfair introduced it.
it was according the betfair Q&A posted on here
Magician there was no mention of being approved, I think others have rang the GC and been told they weren't aware of approving any changes
Q. Does this change raise any regulatory issues?
A. As a matter of course Betfair highlights any changes to the code base or operations to the relevant regulator, in this case The Gambling Commission. Before any change was made Betfair approached the GC and explained the proposed changes in detail.
Q. Does this change raise any regulatory issues?
A. As a matter of course Betfair highlights any changes to the code base or operations to the relevant regulator, in this case The Gambling Commission. Before any change was made Betfair approached the GC and explained the proposed changes in detail.
well they condoned them ( by not blocking them) if they did not formaly approve them
I guess alot depends on how well the changes were explained and if there was any mention of matching up bets where there were discrepancies between liabilities.
IN DETAIL
so lets assume well..... but did they people getting the explination have the interest/knowledge or capacity to understand it
so lets assume well..... but did they people getting the explination have the interest/knowledge or capacity to understand it
Wee Mac 16 Mar 15:38
That better price (which is truly best execution, imo) is not yet being passed on to their customers. No doubt betfair would prefer the first definition; we prefer the second, but at least betfair have indicated that they'll move to the latter soon. Let's hope so.
I have third hand information straight from the horses mouth that Betfair have never had any intention of offering best price execution for it's customers.
That better price (which is truly best execution, imo) is not yet being passed on to their customers. No doubt betfair would prefer the first definition; we prefer the second, but at least betfair have indicated that they'll move to the latter soon. Let's hope so.
I have third hand information straight from the horses mouth that Betfair have never had any intention of offering best price execution for it's customers.
We can assume that bf explained cross-matching to the GC in mind-numbing and distracting technical detail highlighting that it wd allow users to get matched more often.
They wd not have used emotive terms like 'skimming' or suggested that the change cd be seen as beating the clock, running a house bot or offering unfair competition to their own bettors.
It's quite poss. that bf will be able to square the GC (who are bingo regulators after all) but they will certainly have some explaining to do.
They wd not have used emotive terms like 'skimming' or suggested that the change cd be seen as beating the clock, running a house bot or offering unfair competition to their own bettors.
It's quite poss. that bf will be able to square the GC (who are bingo regulators after all) but they will certainly have some explaining to do.
We should teach children to gamble responsibly. Just like sex and alchohol they should be introduced gradually to young people, with education of the risks. The Gambling Commission probably doesn't agree with this.
Sorry I got a bit off subject, but my point was that the GC are perhaps more interested in things like children gambling, than this somewhat abstruse subject
gettingbetter, the GC have three pretty rudimentary frames of reference: keeping crime out of gambling, protecting the vulnerable and making sure that betting is 'fair and open'. On the last they have referred in the past to the Unfair Contract Act and to breaches of the law of contract in bookies retroactively changing their bet terms.
Bf fall down on the 'fair and open' criterion with their arber for the immediate reason that their changes weren't announced and in fact contravene the t&c in which the company promise their customers best execution.
There are poss. ways that bf can get out of the allegation that the skimming is unethical and illegal, and at a pinch ways they can get out of the claim that they have violated their fundamental principle of p2p betting. For instance, they can redefine 'best execution' as pertaining only to sub-runner markets.
But they will have a hard time convincing anyone that they consulted sufficiently on this material change.
The minimal scenario I see is a rap across the knuckles for failing to explain the house bot to their users.
Bigger scenarios include the GC telling them to offer best execution, telling them to swicth the arber off, suggesting they try to return their rake and fining them.
Bf fall down on the 'fair and open' criterion with their arber for the immediate reason that their changes weren't announced and in fact contravene the t&c in which the company promise their customers best execution.
There are poss. ways that bf can get out of the allegation that the skimming is unethical and illegal, and at a pinch ways they can get out of the claim that they have violated their fundamental principle of p2p betting. For instance, they can redefine 'best execution' as pertaining only to sub-runner markets.
But they will have a hard time convincing anyone that they consulted sufficiently on this material change.
The minimal scenario I see is a rap across the knuckles for failing to explain the house bot to their users.
Bigger scenarios include the GC telling them to offer best execution, telling them to swicth the arber off, suggesting they try to return their rake and fining them.
has anyone had a concrete reply from the Gambling Commision yet regarding this matter? I read somewhere that someone was expecting a reply from them today.
Good to see that the forum Q & A is going to (a) last a massive 60 minutes and (b) consist of pre-selected questions:
Betfair Customer Services 17 Mar 11:50
As announced last week well be hosting a Q&A session on the forum this Wednesday evening (19th March) between 6pm and 7pm (UK Time). The purpose of this Q&A session is to answer questions regarding Betfairs new bet matching logic. To help us get through as many questions as possible you can send them in advance to livechat@betfair.com. Unfortunately it is not possible for us to respond to each Email individually but we will attempt to answer all questions raised via the live Q&A session.
We realise that customers would appreciate the chance to have questions answered on other topics too, but we want to focus this initial session on just the new bet matching logic to ensure that we answer as many questions as possible. For those customers who have questions for Betfair that arent related to this topic well be reintroducing regular forum Q&A sessions over the coming weeks. Well post more information about those sessions nearer the time.
We hope you find this session helpful and informative.
User: Dear Betfair, will this new system help me get matched more often?
Betfair: Yes, and at the price you want!
Betfair Customer Services 17 Mar 11:50
As announced last week well be hosting a Q&A session on the forum this Wednesday evening (19th March) between 6pm and 7pm (UK Time). The purpose of this Q&A session is to answer questions regarding Betfairs new bet matching logic. To help us get through as many questions as possible you can send them in advance to livechat@betfair.com. Unfortunately it is not possible for us to respond to each Email individually but we will attempt to answer all questions raised via the live Q&A session.
We realise that customers would appreciate the chance to have questions answered on other topics too, but we want to focus this initial session on just the new bet matching logic to ensure that we answer as many questions as possible. For those customers who have questions for Betfair that arent related to this topic well be reintroducing regular forum Q&A sessions over the coming weeks. Well post more information about those sessions nearer the time.
We hope you find this session helpful and informative.
User: Dear Betfair, will this new system help me get matched more often?
Betfair: Yes, and at the price you want!
The simple solution is the following IMO:
This is a financial trading platform and should be controlled by the FSA. Why? Because BetFair by their own statement to the Joint Integrity Committee in the House Of Commons stated that billions of pounds are traded and the operator is the "conduit to betting" not the bookmaker per se. In every known sense of the term, it is a "trading platform".
Taking this view, it has breached a significant European financial trading law (which in this case supersedes UK law) by not informing it's customers of a material change in share matching means that Betfair can expect a formal European enquiry along those lines at some point this year.
Now BF can either address that within Q&A Wednesday or not. I suspect not.
This is a financial trading platform and should be controlled by the FSA. Why? Because BetFair by their own statement to the Joint Integrity Committee in the House Of Commons stated that billions of pounds are traded and the operator is the "conduit to betting" not the bookmaker per se. In every known sense of the term, it is a "trading platform".
Taking this view, it has breached a significant European financial trading law (which in this case supersedes UK law) by not informing it's customers of a material change in share matching means that Betfair can expect a formal European enquiry along those lines at some point this year.
Now BF can either address that within Q&A Wednesday or not. I suspect not.
I've been mulling things ahead of the Q&A. Back on page 34 "ludus20099" gave two examples of how Betfair could implement the matching process. I've been mulling over example two for some time now and I think this is probably how Betfair have implemented the matching model. I think its possible people have been making an error in how they think the matching works? If you match liabilities and gains rather than % it puts a whole different complextion on things.
Hopefully we will find out tonight anyhow.
Hopefully we will find out tonight anyhow.
I'm still confused by that post from ludus20099. Can you elaborate, please, for the benefit of this thickie?
Basically if you back 2 at 6 you create a potential profit of 10, you offset that by creating two lay liabilities of 5 each with the "spare" money created by the overbroke book. Viola no money leaves the system, or so it would seem.
Thanks Golgafrincham, much appreciated. Are you suggesting that this is how Betfair is matching, and is therefore not taking a rake?
I understand those mathematics, but how does this fit in with the market being overround? And it still doesn't give best price execution, just requested price execution. I feel even thicker now :(
The 10.47 post on 19 March indicates (a) that BetFair did profit from the new bet matching process, and (b) that it has been removed from in play markets until best price execution can be guaranteed, removing their potential for future profit from our "mistakes".
I for one wish to congratulate Betfair on this action. It took some time and they shouldn't have put themselves in this position in the first place - a serious lack of clear thinking (or site use) by those that implement new ideas. But the change in heart is welcome.
On a minor note I wonder if my letters to the FSA and the PM made a difference? (..the issue of FSA regulation may yet be a spectre hanging over them in the forthcoming months as a result of this, I'm afraid.)
I for one wish to congratulate Betfair on this action. It took some time and they shouldn't have put themselves in this position in the first place - a serious lack of clear thinking (or site use) by those that implement new ideas. But the change in heart is welcome.
On a minor note I wonder if my letters to the FSA and the PM made a difference? (..the issue of FSA regulation may yet be a spectre hanging over them in the forthcoming months as a result of this, I'm afraid.)
Surely we should be thanking the person that gave willjons the information?
Isn't it easy to give best execution?
Taking ludus2099 example (page 34 on this thread) of "surebet" algorithm.
Lay Atalanta: 2 * 6.0 / 3.45 = 3,48
Lay The Draw: 2 * 6.0 / 1.80 = 6,67
Total payout if Siena win is 6,67+3,48+2,00=12,15
So odds returned to punter should be 12,15/2 = 6.075
I.e. better execution and improved prices for Betfair's punters
Taking ludus2099 example (page 34 on this thread) of "surebet" algorithm.
Lay Atalanta: 2 * 6.0 / 3.45 = 3,48
Lay The Draw: 2 * 6.0 / 1.80 = 6,67
Total payout if Siena win is 6,67+3,48+2,00=12,15
So odds returned to punter should be 12,15/2 = 6.075
I.e. better execution and improved prices for Betfair's punters
Well done wiljons for starting the thread. A positive result.
Betfair have finally done the right thing. not because they believe its wrong to make money on top of commision, NO, obviously its because enough customers complained to make them seriously worried!
bet matching clearly wasnt implemented to benefit us as they try to say:
" The motivation for introducing this change is to make it easier for customers to get bets matched, and to reduce the load on the site"
So profit is not a motive? Is betfair a charity - I think not. Betfair, please tell us how profit is so irrelevant its not even worth a mention among your motives?... you have given 2 reasons, 1 of which is actually down right dangerous and bad for a customer...
If i enter a lay of 11 instead of 1.1 as intended, do you think ill be happy that at least it was matched! SWEET, at least i didnt have to worry about cancelling.
Is it not enough to make 5% of all the money that is lost on here?
bet matching clearly wasnt implemented to benefit us as they try to say:
" The motivation for introducing this change is to make it easier for customers to get bets matched, and to reduce the load on the site"
So profit is not a motive? Is betfair a charity - I think not. Betfair, please tell us how profit is so irrelevant its not even worth a mention among your motives?... you have given 2 reasons, 1 of which is actually down right dangerous and bad for a customer...
If i enter a lay of 11 instead of 1.1 as intended, do you think ill be happy that at least it was matched! SWEET, at least i didnt have to worry about cancelling.
Is it not enough to make 5% of all the money that is lost on here?
I have spent the past 3 hours wading my way through as much information on this thread as I can possibly stomach (I was only made aware of this today because I am not an in-play trader). As I understand it, this matter has been resolved for now but not before Betfair made a pretty penny from the initial implementation and 1 month's worth of skimming (and perhaps a little ironically from the myriad of people who decided to test to see if this travesty was actually true lol)
I note many are less cynical than me and feel somewhat protected from Betfair's integrity (or lack thereof) by the sharp minds that appear in these discussions. My own experience of Betfair's ethics leaves a significant amount to be desired and if I had a better option I would surely explore it.
To state the obvious, in the end, the interest for Betfair is to make money. Whilst that might seem like an obvious statement, some of you appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that a subset of that is to serve the customer. Only by default would this ever be the case, so save yourselves the anguish of proving your beliefs to be in error.
Thanks to the sleuthes who found this "anomoly". I have as much faith in you as I lack in Betfair. By implication, if you were deities I would worship you, and I do :)
I note many are less cynical than me and feel somewhat protected from Betfair's integrity (or lack thereof) by the sharp minds that appear in these discussions. My own experience of Betfair's ethics leaves a significant amount to be desired and if I had a better option I would surely explore it.
To state the obvious, in the end, the interest for Betfair is to make money. Whilst that might seem like an obvious statement, some of you appear to be labouring under the misapprehension that a subset of that is to serve the customer. Only by default would this ever be the case, so save yourselves the anguish of proving your beliefs to be in error.
Thanks to the sleuthes who found this "anomoly". I have as much faith in you as I lack in Betfair. By implication, if you were deities I would worship you, and I do :)
are we still curious in the light of today's announcement?
very.
1.98 and 2.02 doesn't really add up does it ?! i am worried about their maths..
im also curious about how this best execution thing is going to work with the queuing system.. why are they playing around so much with their product, the best execution thing is not as straight forward as it looks to put together, you have to wonder if it is actually worth the man hours to betfair to program it...
1.98 and 2.02 doesn't really add up does it ?! i am worried about their maths..
im also curious about how this best execution thing is going to work with the queuing system.. why are they playing around so much with their product, the best execution thing is not as straight forward as it looks to put together, you have to wonder if it is actually worth the man hours to betfair to program it...
so will they only match two people who want to back at 1.98 and 2.02 and make a few pence or are they also willing to match a couple of people who want to lay at 1.98 and 2.02 and lose a few pence?
ARBERS!! betfair are going to be making millions and millions from this new bet logic - instead of their customers arbing and trading - betfair get to do it. Think about how much they would really be making 0.01-0.04% of matched money on 2 runner markets.
JamesBlakesHugeArse 10 May 16:48
?
the author of this thread sadly passed away last week, his father had a thread about it on sat morning
?
the author of this thread sadly passed away last week, his father had a thread about it on sat morning
http://site.forum.betfair.com/jive3/betex/ThreadsFrameset.jsp?forumID=32&for...
Happened to me.
my bets were accepted before hitting the screen.
I was really happy.
thanks bf as the team I layed drifted and my bets never hit the books.
my bets were accepted before hitting the screen.
I was really happy.
thanks bf as the team I layed drifted and my bets never hit the books.
jonnyg 10 May 18:49
Happened to me.
my bets were accepted before hitting the screen.
I was really happy.
thanks bf as the team I layed drifted and my bets never hit the books.
In the grand scheme of things johnnyg no1 really wants to hear your whinging on this thread
Happened to me.
my bets were accepted before hitting the screen.
I was really happy.
thanks bf as the team I layed drifted and my bets never hit the books.
In the grand scheme of things johnnyg no1 really wants to hear your whinging on this thread
haha
i WAs NOT WHINGING
I WAS grateful my bets were taken.
i was aware team would dirft and got out of my postion before drifted on bf
I WAS DELIGHTED.
i WAs NOT WHINGING
I WAS grateful my bets were taken.
i was aware team would dirft and got out of my postion before drifted on bf
I WAS DELIGHTED.
jonny - it's always a good idea to read the most recent posts on a thread before replying to the title.....
Didn't want to lose this thread with the new Forum platform.
Just a tribute to my son Will who managed to get Betfair to delay the implementation of the 'Matching Algorithm' until it gave the best available odds (almost) and also stopped Betfair from pocketing the difference by starting this thread.
Just a tribute to my son Will who managed to get Betfair to delay the implementation of the 'Matching Algorithm' until it gave the best available odds (almost) and also stopped Betfair from pocketing the difference by starting this thread.
Pretty sure you will find that the only markets where the bet matching algorithm is not used are Australian markets. Of course I don't bet on every market BF have available, so there may be other markets where the algorithm is not used. However Australian markets are the only ones I know of that do not have the bet matching algorithm running.
The reason is because the Australian licensers know it is unfair for punters and don't allow BF to run it on Australian markets.
The reason is because the Australian licensers know it is unfair for punters and don't allow BF to run it on Australian markets.
Guys
Has anyone come across a problem like this: i place a bet and 5 register for the same amount, sometimes i place a bet and the stakes get all messed about with (I'll put £100 on and it registers as £200). I started noticing strange P&Ls on different markets that were way more than I had expected but brushed it off. Then I started checking back and saw that this 'multiplicity' and 'bloating' of my bets had been happening for about 10 days randomly and without real pattern. I've contacted betfair customer services and the answer I got back was 'you must have had multiple windows open.
Whilst some bets have gone my way the net result is about £1900 of bets that have been 'corrupted'.
It's supposed to be a secure site and this kind of thing is not supposed to happen. Anyone know how I can elevate this and get compensated. I've checked my security software and there's no issues there.
Has anyone come across a problem like this: i place a bet and 5 register for the same amount, sometimes i place a bet and the stakes get all messed about with (I'll put £100 on and it registers as £200). I started noticing strange P&Ls on different markets that were way more than I had expected but brushed it off. Then I started checking back and saw that this 'multiplicity' and 'bloating' of my bets had been happening for about 10 days randomly and without real pattern. I've contacted betfair customer services and the answer I got back was 'you must have had multiple windows open.
Whilst some bets have gone my way the net result is about £1900 of bets that have been 'corrupted'.
It's supposed to be a secure site and this kind of thing is not supposed to happen. Anyone know how I can elevate this and get compensated. I've checked my security software and there's no issues there.
wiljons died didnt he? somewhere in here his dad ttts it i think
Yes sadly.
Will's nephew Joseph did the Junior Manchester Run for him and raised money for the Circulation foundation. A tidy amount of which came from Betfairians.
Will's nephew Joseph did the Junior Manchester Run for him and raised money for the Circulation foundation. A tidy amount of which came from Betfairians.
To Lori: Thanks for remembering me mate, I really appreciate it. I haven't got an account on Betfair; so I used my Granddad's :)!
-Joseph
-Joseph
THERES PEOPLE SAT IN AN OFFICE ,GOING THROUGH ALL THE WINNING CUSTOMERS ACCOUNTS LOOKING FOR WAYS TO MAKE THEM NONE WINNING CUSTOMERS ,SO THEY CAN GIVE THEIR SHAREHOLDERS BIGGER PROFITS
THEY SAY THINGS ,COME HERE FRED AND LOOK AT THIS WINNING ACCOUNT ,WE CAN SOON PUT A STOP TO THAT KIND OF BETTING
THEY ALSO SAY THINGS LIKE COME HERE MILDRED AND LOOK HOW MUCH THIS CUSTOMER IS MAKING EACH MONTH ,LETS SEE IF WE CAN PUT A STOP TO IT
THEY ALSO SAY THINGS LIKE COME HERE CHARLOTTE AND LOOK WHAT THIS MANS BOTS DOING TO ALL OUR PROFITS
CHARLOTTE BEING NEW TO THE COMPANY AND A JEHOVAS WITNESS ,SAID SHES LOOKING AT NO ONES BOT
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