Forum Meltdown - T Minus 2 hours

Apologies Curly that post was meant for Luckylucas.

what are you talking about frames?

fair enough

@ lucky lucas.. the max you will pay @ the purple place is 5% at the moment!!

as opoesed to 5% (decaying) commiss here plus "potetial" extras on proft taking the outpayment to 20% ish..

thats what i meant

Side markets will be the easiest ones to steal imo

Plently will want to stay under the 250 markets/60 weeks ceiling

Troy , you should maybe start an official boycott thread, if people sign in to it to say they are committed to moving for one week then it could start something. if you can get 1000 names on it then it could just grow and grow

diggler - I reckon that thread would last about 5 minutes, and would be my last ever contribution to this forum

Indeed , one of the golf forum regulars was banned yesterday for suggesting people move to the purple place.

yes troy you are right about that,troy do you think this uproar that has happened because of this will see a change of mind,i suspect that lots have removed parts of thier banks at least and deposited elsewhere already surely they must be noticing this.

most forums seem to be trying some concerted effort to move

i'll be with the footie boys trying someplace new for the croatia v england match tomorrow

definite hats off to the cricket rebels as well

Great idea - leaving for 1 week. What we need is a forum where we can chat freely without fear of being banned. I'll email purple place for them to set one up and if others do the same it would help.
Also the week we boycott, we shouldn't just boycott we should all move to the other place for that week to show the purple guys that they are on to something big here and that they need to invest a ton of money into their current, somewhat backwards set-up.

Power to the Punter.....

amazing, cricket thread just got pulled

i wonder how much some of the more 'liberal' media, ie guardian, independent, new statesman etc would enjoy the chance to report on this blatant corporate greed and censorship of dissent...

i think some of the journos would have a great time :)

Does anyone really think that the other sites server could possibly handle the betfair traffic for a week? Even 10% of it?

There is a lot of hysteria about thie new charge anyway. The way the commission system is structured allows a very small number of users to pay an unfairlly low rate of commission relative to their profit. The new charge seeks to redress this unfairness.

I've been paying between 20-25% of my gross profit im commission for the last 3 years and I know others who pay more. Why should a select few only have to pay 5%? Sorry Troy :P

*in*

Some threads are disappearing

If you Google "Ultimate Betting Forum" there is an excellent and free discussion going on there.

Please try and keep it to one thread, but hopefully people can post more freely there

ttt

catflappa the select few should be allowed to pay 5% while you have to pay 25% because they are more skilled and efficient with their betting and in a fair exchange should be rewarded not punished(excepting bot users)

:(

why not make all pay 5% then all is fair for everyone...no discounts...no wonder the bots run rampant they keep turning over and paying 2% whilst raping the system of little bits and pieces thousands of time ...different if 5%...imo

I think this needs posting on here, it pretty much says everything that needs to be said...

Get On MASSIVE 10 Sep 10:49


I have no idea how the other place would cope with a mass migration from Betfair but if as a group we accept this and continue to give Betfair our business then this will only be the start.

Betfair have been growing at an incredible rate since their birth eight years a go. A couple of years a go their customer base hit a ceiling so they decided to target their existing customers to get more money out of them.

First they changed the commission structure so that we all ended up on higher rates, then they bring in the mug chance games like casino and exchange game. They also bet into their own markets in Malta and who knows what underhand tactic could be being used there? Now we have the 20% comission charges.

If only a handful of people leave then next year the directors will say well done for last year lads but we want more money out of them this year and it will be something else. It's a simple equation on the most efficicent way on how much they can charge to how many people leave.

God help them if the other place manages to get a decent foothole because liquidity can literally be here today and gone tomorrow. It shows how arrogant they are as a company to believe they can treat us like dirt and we'll still never leave them en masse.

thats the worrying thing - what happens next? all the people that are standing up for betfair on this issue better be careful what they wish for. we have seen such a gradual decline in betfairs attitudes towards its customers over the years that theres no way the buck stops here.

not sure if i told you already troy but 9 of us in our exchange office will be using the purple place as of monday.

That's great news bank man. Aren't you one of the big rugby market makers?

Do you think Betfair are worried because they have understimated the reaction of it's customers.

bank man & Troy - Why not go the whole hog and close your accounts ? If you believe in this so strongly take the plunge ? What are you scared of ?

i've even seen suggestions regarding going to the OFT about monopoly abuse

possibly a bit over the top, but betfair almost certainly qualify as a monopoly, and its very doubtful that these charges would be possible if they had genuine competition, so could easily fall foul of excessive pricing rules etc... and as for rumours that API solutions developers eg betangel are contractually banned from writing software for smaller competitors, things like that would be downright illegal

that people are even contemplating this shows just how annoyed people seem to have become

subversion, any rumours re:software aren't true they can write for whoever they want, what they can't do is use their betfair client database to promote them which is standard buisness practice

Im concerned about someone who would underestimate this. Most of the people impacted are those who stood by Betfair when Betfair was small and understood what could happen if they stuck to the task.

To think that those same people wouldn't look to the future again is either incredibly short-sighted or Betfair want those people to leave for reasons best known to Betfair.

ghetto joe - hope thats true, i certainly don't claim to have any special knowledge on this subject or anything

i'm more amazed about how far some people are now willing to go - people who only a few days ago were loyal betfair customers

GoM,

you got me confused with someone else i think, not a market maker in the rugby i'm afraid, just a very bad bettor at it. i'm a full time horse racing punter. there's 4 or 5 big hitters in our office, i reckon we generate betfair at least 350k possibly a lot more in commission each year and they basically want to double that. but its the future that really bothers us - what happens next year? do they bump it up another 10% or find some other way or some other group of punters to screw. enough is enough as far as we are concerned.

Ah, I think I'm confusing you with "the man".

Well done and good luck on your migration. A few pioneers with a bit of money who take the first steps and who knows you could bring a flood of people with you.

If I was Betfair I'd be really worried about giving the other place a foothole because if they get decent liquidity then it could literally empty this place overnight as why pay 20% when you can pay 2%?

sub, I've heard whispers of things in the offing for the other sites and I think flee has already posted about some API products due out from gruss,BA etc on the racing forum

i was betting in running on the horses when betfair 1st introduced it. they didn't offer in running on races less than a mile and had a 3 second delay for the rest. the liquidity was thin as you would expect but quickly became popular. i have no fear of starting again at the beginning.

donemyconkers 10 Sep 12:29


bank man & Troy - Why not go the whole hog and close your accounts ? If you believe in this so strongly take the plunge ? What are you scared of ?




I'm not scared of anything. But hopefully, as with cross matching, Betfair will realise they have made a huge mistake, and back down. If they do, I will happily come back

If not, I will try my best to make it work at the other place. If that doesn't work, I might still come back. But I'm not going to sit here with my thumb up my ar$e wondering



The most important point has already been made. 20% is a disgrace, but if we all bend over and accept it, what happens next? 30%? 40%?

Bringing back the classics.

Where it all began...

The mass migration went well.

Yes, it was impossible for gamblers to get matched when all traders left for purple.

Some of the ringleaders are still in denial about their failure and have stated elsewhere that they would have another go if they weren't retiring in a few years when they reach 20.

20 mil?

No, 20 years of age.

One of the great moments , bit like Chamberlains " peace in our time "

Did troy give up his 800k a year job on here out of principle or is he lurking?

catfloppo 06 Oct 14:52
Did troy give up his 800k a year job on here out of principle or is he lurking?

No one knows...

I assume Troys post above - "10 Sep 13:31" is spent 2008?

or has he come back???

Yeah. Definitely 2008.

If he's still a big IR tennis bettor, then he's obviously using BF as much as he ever was (there's nowhere else to go), so I don't understand why he maintains his 'radio silence'. (I don't think he was banned).

dont know if he was bbanned but he is definantly not betitng here.

he said he would be transparent and public if he returned to bet - and we must take him on his word

in gamblgin reputation is everything

Someone suggested to me today Troy was here betting like always?

without breeching the forum rule (of disclosing things you are not allowed to)

does anyone know if this is true?

would be a big embarrassment for him if he was

It's embarassing either way imo. If he has really given up on bf cos he can't handle a price rise then he is embarrassingly stupid. If he is still here but too shy to post then it's just a humble pie kind of embarassment.

Time he did another magazine article to let us know how he is doing since the pc was introduced.

AFAIK Troy never said he was gone for good -



"As I'm not going to be using Betfair for some time (Although I categorically am NOT stating that I won't be back) I think it might also be a good idea to stop posting for a while. Its not a dramatic "I'm leaving the forum", its just easier to take a break at this time. If Betquack have a forum, I might look in there

Trade well people, stay happy :) . And don't end up hating yourself and your life like The Magician does

And Magician, continue to post what you like about me now. I won't be here to defend myself, so you can continue to spin your "story" about me however you like.

No doubt by the time you've finished, I'll be 8 foot tall, and will have made £60million from illegally stopping horses while paying £790.50 in commission"

Rumour has it he saw DJ on the purple forum and ran off.

donemyconkers


Have you also got the post where he said is he bets here again he would be honest and transaprent about it?

catfloppo 08 Oct 10:47

It's embarassing either way imo. If he has really given up on bf cos he can't handle a price rise then he is embarrassingly stupid. If he is still here but too shy to post then it's just a humble pie kind of embarassment.


So Troy McClure is either a fool or a fraud?

Correct, and he isn't a fool.

not good publicity for Troy

:0

why did this come back?

Is troy back here betting and posting?

must be still exclusively purple

oh someone mentioned it so i ttt'd it

don't know where he is

I suspect there will be forumites trawling through gubbed to dig up their favourite threads so they don't get lost in the migration.

Troy still uses this site daily


FACT

JME

Find that hard to believe, when he encouraged a walkout to purple, he said if he came back he would be transparent about being back, and he has never posted since

would not reflect well if he tried to get his compitition to move while he stayed here....

maybe just banned from the forum

Well if a certain site has paid you around 250k per year for the last 5 years you dont really get up and leave it to get an office job, and lets forget about purple for now, until Dermot Desmond puts his hands in his pockets and shelsl out for grand advertising campaigns and a major revamp of the site then Mr Troy would be lucky to make 10k in a year over there.

Lets face it, Troy's a clever chap, he may not openly admit to coming back here and eating humble pie, but he is here - trading away as usual on tennis and cricket.

jme

Find that hard to believe, that he is here.

but if he is as you say trading daily, perhaps better he does not post - as he has totally lost credibility (if he had any left, after satelites, NYC, courtsiding, pruple migration)

ttt

I predict another one of these in the not to distant future.

I've been informed that anyone making more than 1% on turnover is going to have to pay the new Premium Bettor Charge of 50% of profit. This is due to gamblers taking too much out of the system.

This is to encourage successful gamblers to provide more famous liquidity (stripey blazer style).

Good old Troy. If ever there was a post begging to be charged more it was his post boasting about having made a million and having paid just over 40K in commission. His smug post prior to that (when the points bands were raised and most gamblers were hit with a rise in commission) stating he didn't mind paying a bit more (another 1 or 2K) probably didn't help his cause either. Still, he got betfair back by leading the walk out which proved once and for all that the famous liquidity was in fact invisible.

Investor, you're getting mixed up with


The all new liquidity generating Premium Charge = (GrossProfit - 5 * CommissionGenerated) / 2

betting_quant knows what I mean.

Yaaawwwwnnn

There's nothing more boring than a bored person Contrarian.

I think you are confusing boredom with tiredness Feck...

there's nothing more boring than you, feck.

Getting constantly sh@fted must be pretty boring pres.

Poor old Troy ,probably on to his 3rd million by now while chip on the shoulder Feck rants on and on and on...............

fruits, Troy's still ranting on the UltimateToryBoy forum. He no longer rants on here because he's banned (something to do with a "walk out" ). Certainly no sign of him on the forum at the "walk out" destination. HTH.

It's strange. Troy arranges a walkout because he objects to going from paying maybe a tenth of the percentage your average winning gambler pays to paying maybe half what the average winning gambler does

but I'm the one with a chip on my shoulder?

yes.

hth

It was a rhetorical question viv. HTH.

...

Lol ..

T-minus 60

Customers will be subject to Premium Charges at higher rates if they satisfy the following conditions:

Lifetime net profits exceed £250,000
Lifetime commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
Bet in more than 1,000 markets
The Premium Charge rate applied to each customer that satisfies these conditions is dependent on their lifetime commission generated to gross profits ratio. The exact rate will be determined by the following table:

Lifetime commission generated
to gross profits ratio     Applicable Premium Charge rate
< 5%        60%
5% - 10%    50%
> 10%            40%

Ooooh errrrr!

If you've made £250k you're pretty much bound to have commission generated less than 40% of lifetimes gross profits. Shocking new charge.

Raising the threshold to 40 % is just ridicolous
  If this is correct, I would recommend everyone with spare money in their bank account to go short on Betfair stocks.
  Their price will plummit during the next few months.

Why would the sp bomb? The new charge will increase Betfair profits. If the winners go elsewhere, this can only be good for Betfair.

Not agreeing with the charge at any level btw.

Exactly Muqbil. The Premium Charges introduction was the biggest advertisement that winners weren't welcome, and Betfair's not appeared to suffer from it. This will drive the big winners out which will please 99% of punters.

It's not good for Betfair if winners go elsewhere.  Large winners pay huge amoun ts of commission and PC.
  With this new 40 % threshold and noe rebates it would be almost impossible for big winners to stay.

Well I'm off when it comes in. 20% wasn't too unbearable. 40% is just too far.

I think you are wrong.  It will drive away lots of the big liqudity providers and all a successful exchange needs is liquidity.
  Betfair may seed markets themselves, but that will only lead to more people getting pi$$ed off and going purple.

Time will tell, just hoping this is a hoax.

When big winners go elsewhere, the money they were previously taking out of the loop will play ping pong for much longer, surely?

You could argue that, but I think they will lose more from the big winners than they gain from the ones who stay with the lower liquidity.
  My total charges is now at 347 k and most of that is from the last 2 years.  I wont bother to stay if they raise it to 40 %.

liquidity will dry out. we will leave and seed the markets elsewhere.

You've been charged £347k in the last 2 years. Feck me. You must be making millions on here each year?

Share price going north as we speak!

.

only 20%?  loooooooooool

Does Troy McClure have an interest in Sporting Data?

@ballabriggs, @feck R.I.P

Wow never seen this thread before nice one buzzer!