Commission agents

what sort of stakes?

betfair black card service

2-5k

sportingandracing.co.uk

redbait

I use someone off of here called layinglikemaria. he charged me 2.5% and 0.5% of winnings. I bet mainly EP too and he reg gets me 3-4k on. He wont do Arb business full stop as it will kill his accounts though he did get me a nice snidey EW Trixie on Mothers Day that brought me 17k back.

Never had a prob being paid though you do have to wait a week as he has to draw it in off of others.

his email is edrpool at yahoo co uk

hmmmmmmmmmm,
I cant speak for my mate, but the thing that worries me with commission agents is that, lets say I want to back a horse that is best priced 6/1 with just a handful of books in the morning and I want 5k on. If I havent had dealings with the guy before, how could I trust that the agent is going to do his best to get the majority of my stake on at best price and not take some of the best price for himself? Also, if a man was to strike a really big win, is there any laws in place to legally protect a punter from getting ripped off by the agent?

Can anyone vouch for sportingandracing.co.uk?

Website being taken down today for redevelopment, email address info@sportingandracing.co.uk, feel free to phone for an informal chat about how we get on , what we charge etc

racingguru 24 Mar 09:24
sorry just interested - what do you mean 2.5% and 0.5% of winnings. 0.5% of winnings fair enough but what is the 2.5% (stake?)

If so surely that would not be viable to any pro.

pretty sure there's plenty that could crush the books paying those percentages. Hugh taylor certainly wouldn't have a problem with it!

hmmmmmmmmmm,
I cant speak for my mate, but the thing that worries me with commission agents is that, lets say I want to back a horse that is best priced 6/1 with just a handful of books in the morning and I want 5k on.

Well unless you are pretty stupid or a serious risk-lover, you just don't enter into that sort of contract. In fact you might be more sensible to find 4-5 commission agents and spread the bet amongst them (although that would cause long term problems as, as soon as they know you are a winner, they are going to front run you).

If I havent had dealings with the guy before, how could I trust that the agent is going to do his best to get the majority of my stake on at best price and not take some of the best price for himself?

I wouldn't deal with one that denied that he is front running your trades. I'd consider it a fairly thankless task without the front running going on.

Also, if a man was to strike a really big win, is there any laws in place to legally protect a punter from getting ripped off by the agent?

I'd imagine you can get paperwork drawn up etc - but realistically its like anything else - if someone wants to disappear, they will do so. Again, splitting stakes amongst 5 or 6 would be the most sensible, IF you go down this route.

Most winning punters have difficulty getting £25 on at early prices.

Why would bookmakers accommodate commission agents for thousands?

How do you know they even place the money? Just pay out the occasional winners from the cash the frequent losers provide, plus the percentages. If that strategy goes wrong, they suddenly disappear with the "ring fenced" bank floats. Mugs beware.

Why would losers use commission agents?

simple mind 24 Mar 19:35
Why would losers use commission agents?

they wouldn't but the above poster still makes a good point ie ring fencing

Ill reply for how I work but I am not touting for business. I have 6 clients. One bets sporadically, one bets weekends only and big festivals, 2 will bet first thing in the morning and 2 race by race but will want 800-1400 a race.

I have 4 people who work for me on commision who live near london and move around to get on. Believe me, 3 of my clients are losers but still cant get 3k on one. It suits them to ring me, find the best price and say get me on at X minimum. Like someone said, I wont do Arbs, that just kills the accounts.

I charge 2.5% on stakes and 0.5% on winnings so if you had 2k on one that won at 2/1, you would pay me 70 pound.

I have no need to price jump you or whatever the term was used, Im quite happy making 300-400 ish a day risk free. Some of the bets do contract but i would imagine that just as many drift with the clients I have.

The email listed above is correct so if anyone wants any help, email, but Im not fussed either way.

Good Luck

jeesssssus 2 1/2p and 1/2p of profit...dick turpin wore a mask!!!
i get on 2p flat

Like I said, dont need customers and the ones I have are VERY happy.

yeah i bet they are....i guess the clue was in the statment "3 of them are losing"...good luck to you, never begrudge anyone making a dollar!!

"simple mind 24 Mar 19:35
Why would losers use commission agents?

they wouldn't but the above poster still makes a good point ie ring fencing"



Why do the 96% who are consistent losers bet with anyone? They have the delusion that one day they will make it and that they need big bets on to do that. In their way of thinking they are not losers but winners who have not actually won yet. They either don't like or can't use Betfair. Bookmakers won't take big bets on until they are sure you are unhinged.

the time and organisation needed to get those sums on is vast.......looks like good value to me

crouchingtiger1, when people are wanting 6k on a dog first show at a dog meeting, I earn my 2.5% :)

Back in the days of 9% betting tax I used to do it offshore where there was no tax for a big punter. I used to get 3% of the stakes I got on for him so I saved him 6% and we were both happy as he was betting 1000's a day. Wasn't easy getting the money on though especially when he wanted an early price and I had to spread it around. Eventually got banned by all the bookies in my area as he was very successful. Even had one bookie throw money at me once and told to "fcuk off and don't come back!"

simple mind 24 Mar 19:35
Why would losers use commission agents?

big staking losers are just that because they are good at something else - but not betting. pro footballers are the ideal example - but the ones who have half a brain and realise that they will bleed to death more slowly if they get best price or a better price each time, rather than the JT approach of going into no morals with a carrier bag full of cash and staying until its gone.

racingguru 25 Mar 01:23
Incidentally, LLMaria can you get on at the pre 10am prices for good sums ie Baldy, 365 , PP etc as their limits for clean accs is small 2,1,1k respectively for virgin accs and downwards from ther on restriction. I mean do you have independants prepared to take bets on those odds?

After 10am I think I have enough outs and would not pay 3% but pre 10am prices it could be interesting if that is possible.

I'd be surprised if that was possible for more than a few days! But interested to hear about it if it is.

racingguru 24 Mar 17:05
Treble - Don't get me wrong 15% profit on early prices is well possible but to pay 20% of it - that's PC'ish.

Is the following how you arrived at the 20% figure:

Let's say we back 7/1 shots that should be 6/1 for an example

1000 bets, should get 143 winners for the sake of the example

1k on each

1000 bets of 1025 cost to us = 1025k

143 winners return 7965 each. so we backed them at 7.7707ish = 1138995

857 losers cost us 1025 * 857 = 878425

staked 1025000 returned 1138995 profit 113995 Yield 11.12%

if we could easily get the 1k on ourselves at 7/1 (lets make it 1025 as that's what the stakes cost us):

returns 1172600 profit 147600

Yield 14.4%

so commission has essentially cost us 33605 and is 29.48% of our profits if we could get the money on ourselves.

Just making sure I have worked that correctly.

Laying Like Maria 24 Mar 23:22
crouchingtiger1, when people are wanting 6k on a dog first show at a dog meeting, I earn my 2.5%

You certainly do....although how 4 people could get that on is beyond my comprehension...fair play you must be good

racingguru 25 Mar 09:01
20% of optimum profits was a ball park guess - so based on that example [which is not far from the truth] it is more.

Daylight robbery in my eyes but I guess I'm lucky that I have a gambler friend who gets my tips for free and is prepared to do a little running around for max 1 hour 3/4 days a week for the info. Just interested as that facility may not be there for next season



I wouldn't call it daylight robbery. Depends how you look at it and your cash flow/bankroll situation. If you can get 3k easy enough but no more than that, and your bankroll would actually allow you to be staking more like 10k, then its only inevitable that your yield is going to be slightly lower if you increase stakes like that (but still a hell of a lot better than on here). your "own" 3k at your figures and 7k at 11% rather than 14%, from that point of view it looks like a viable extension of a current operation (given those conditions of course).

I can see where you are coming from but I wouldn't say that its got nothing to offer.

LLM, if these aren't all Arbs you shouldn't have trouble getting the business on.
If you approach an Internet Firm up front and let them know the score they'd probably accomodate you to an extent. Like I say, I'm presuming that these are not Arbs or bad e/w etc. What sort of bets have your Clients asked for today, for example (if you don't mind me asking)?

If you approach an Internet Firm up front and let them know the score they'd probably accomodate you to an extent

I very much doubt that would be the case if we are talking about UK horse racing. The most likely result would be they would cherrypick which ones they wanted to lay, which would be no good, unless you also had an affiliate-style relationship with them whereby you could get cashback on their losses.

It sounds like breakeven business at best for the bookmaker, good business for LLM, and if the clients are happy, there's no problem.

If you aren't frontrunning, you don't want winners. Some of the agents with more customers get these relationships by the mugs far outweighing the sharps, who get "gently" dissuaded one way or another.

I have 4k for a dog at first show at Sheffield and 1800 on a horse.

And the dog just won, 7/4 to 10/11

Whats the horse!

marty44 25 Mar 13:40
Whats the horse!

:D

or perhaps it's this one

Thanks for the ttt buzz. Can anyone recommend LLM or sportingandracing ?

tough to recommend sportingandracing with the website still down.

I contacted LLM via the email on here and have found him to be a good bloke, and has got me some half decent sized bets on so far. It's early days but I am happy at the moment.

Isn't it a bit dangerous talking about this on here ? Gambling Commission licences, levy, customs, inland revenue etc.

ttt

ttt

just thought i would come back to this. i did contact llm and have had 12 bets with him which have obviously been close to betfairs own prices. I have won just over 3k off of him and when i asked for some money, it was in my account 2 days later and i think that was because it was the first time he had sent me anything. things are ticking along nicely and i have no complaints except i cant understand his yorkshire accent and he has a tendency to just put the phone down on you when hes busy [:)][:)][:)][smiley:crazy]

Anyone have contact with LLM and having trouble getting into contact with him at the moment?

Last seen walking off into the sunset with footsoldier

don't joke, i'm in for a few quid

It's extremely unlikely that he has done a runner. He is pretty well known. He used to post regularly on the Greyhound section, both here and on daily dogs. He helped a number of people on the Greyhound section with betting disputes with bookmakers. I think he won them all! He ran a number of the Greyhound syndicates on daily dogs. I have met him once and lots of the lads on daily dogs have met him numerous times. I believe he owns a number of properties and is not short of a few quid.

I agree with all that - I need some funds pretty urgently though.

If anyone who lives in Sheff or nearby who sees him regularly knows anything, please post it - i'll put a thread in the horse and greyhound forums as well.

Spoke to him last week had been in hospital with burst appendix..

thanks for that