General Betting
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From this week's Sunday Times;
"Primary school maths teachers are failing to attain the standard of arithmetic expected of 11-year olds, new research has claimed".
They went on to ask a few straight forward questions, and this one caused the most problem;
What is 4 + 2 x 5 ?
"Only 20% of the teachers tested for a Channel 4 television documentary were able to work out the solution of 4+2x5 = 14, NOT 30 - multipication takes priority over addition".
Is this a wind-up? Since when did multipication take priority? I make the answer 30, and will always make the answer 30. No wonder the kids today can't add up.
"Primary school maths teachers are failing to attain the standard of arithmetic expected of 11-year olds, new research has claimed".
They went on to ask a few straight forward questions, and this one caused the most problem;
What is 4 + 2 x 5 ?
"Only 20% of the teachers tested for a Channel 4 television documentary were able to work out the solution of 4+2x5 = 14, NOT 30 - multipication takes priority over addition".
Is this a wind-up? Since when did multipication take priority? I make the answer 30, and will always make the answer 30. No wonder the kids today can't add up.
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Can't get it to 14!
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4 + (2*5) = 14
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If they wrote the question 4 + (2 x 5), then yes I will agree it is 14. But without brackets it's 30.
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Surely it should be 4 + (2 x 5)
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It depends on which takes priority with no brackets.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_operations
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Who are the stupid one's? Is it Channel 4, or the 20% of teachers who think the answer is 14?
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That's how I was taught.
5x2=10 10+4=14 You can overrule the priority by using brackets (4+2)x5=30 Send 'em on a remedial maths course and hide the calculators... disgrace ;-) |
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answer would be 14 but its a bit of a daft question in reality you would put somme brackets on it
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i have never seen anyone suggest addition takes priority ever before.
Brackets make it obvious which is why they are normally used but I imagine most people who have done any maths would multiply 2 x 5 first if given that calculation. |
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just put it in excel and you will see its 14
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BODMAS
ffs |
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BODMAS - Brackets off, divide & multiply, add & subtract. That's what I was taught.
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BODMAS
Brackets Outside - or Order - I learnt outside (i.e.if something in the brackets is squared etc) Division Multiplication Addition Subtraction That's how we did it when I was a boy at any rate |
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well like Lori and Dixie said - just beat me :)
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Weird how a post can be there for 12 minutes and three of us choose to read it and reply at the same time :D
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Honest Al .. what's your take on the subject now? Honestly .. :-)
But i must say I got passed old-skool A-Level Maths and never heard of BODMAS |
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(And English too, but you'd never believe it from that post)
It just seems a weird thing to highlight as an example of failing standards, surely there are much better examples |
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Starfish,
Maybe it's an age thing. I have never heard of BODMAS, but I did leave school in 1972 - and I won the maths prize! If we cannot agree on a simple 4+2x5 how the hell are they going to sort out the global fiscal problems. I think they had better go and check on Greece's finances as the might have the multiplier in the wrong place! |
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Yup, I meant it was weird on the part of the Sunday Times and Channel 4.
My 11yo daughter is top set in Maths but struggles on basic adding up. I'd expect her to be able to calculate a winning Yankee in her head by now. |
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I can't believe this is even a discussion, teachers should know this stuff, it's elementary.
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Lori,
When I was in school there were no portable calculators, and definitely no computers. A calculator will give you an answer of 30, whereas Excel will give you an answer of 14. It looks like BODMAS was divised to teach computers the order of preference for workings. Maybe somebody could confirm this. |
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A calculator will give you 14, just like excel would
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There were definitely computers in 1972
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Al,
Computer logic may have required priorities to be spelt out so calculations were carried out correctly, but that doesn't me the priorities weren't always there before |
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It's definitely 30. To make it 14 the 2x5 would need to be in brackets.
Only got as far as Maths O Level but at least it was a GCE qualification not the easier CSE or GCSE! |
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By the way, I find it hard to believe only 20% of teachers would answer this correctly.
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http://services.salford.gov.uk/forum/forumposts.asp?forum=23&id=91502&p=7
There's a post on there, which for some reason doesn't pass the betfair filter by "eddieswindells" that says he at least knew about bodmas pre-calculator. |
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So, just to clarify, you're saying that 4+xy where x=2 and y=5 is 30?
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http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52582.html
This seems to place BoDMAS and similar in the early 1900s at the latest |
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Lori,
Now you are trying to confuse everybody!! Why can't 1, follow 2, follow 3 etc. Do you now have to be dyslexic to do maths where you jump to the end of the question before answering part 1? |
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i like this from wikipedia - catchy
PEMDAS (Parentheses, Exponentiation, Multiplication/Division, Addition/Subtraction, alternatively "Picking Eminem Made Dre A Star" or "Please Excuse My Dear Aunt Sally") |
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well 4+xy is obviously the same as 4+x*y as xy=x*y
so either 4+xy=14 or it equals 30, I can't believe anyone with qualifications in maths would put it at 30. Except maybe teachers. |
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Al, even if you ignore BODMAS, there are 2 different answers to what is in front of you. Can't be dogmatic about it.
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If you have four oranges and two lots of five apples, how many fruits do you have?
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Yes, i guess you would never say 'I've got 4 of something, and 2 more, and i've got five lots of it'
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That's not how you say that when you read it out loud though. You maths it like you speaks it.
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ha, try this (from the wikipedia page)
4+2*5 on windows calc (simple mode) gives 30 4+2*5 on windows calc (scientific mode) gives 14 :) |
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:^0
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