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This is a good example of how those "in the know/ with their fancy software make money".
Firstly lots of aftertiming :
Its not often you get such close matches so early on in a tournament, but massive credit to James Blake for almost pulling off a big shock today. It could be one of the best trading matches of the tournament; I think it will difficult to beat. In the last set you could have laid Del Petro at 1.06 only to see him reach break 2s just minutes later. Fantastic stuff, great trading fodder and very entertaining too. Del Potro is currently on course to meet Murray in a later round.
Del Potro won, eventually, 6-4 6-7 (3-7) 5-7 6-3 10-8.
Then a true account of the benefits of such trading "courses" :
I've been on the course and my advice to anyone would be to put the £400 into your betfair account instead as you will lose money when you first start out.
I was hopeful before I went, I wasn't expecting it to be the holy grail but I was hoping that it would help me improve on what I was doing and would give me a better idea on understanding the direction the price would go using graphs.
After paying for the course I received an email from Peter telling me where it would be and to send him an email telling him about my experiences with trading and what I hoped to get out of the course, I emailed him back with the information he wanted and I also asked him a few questions about whether there was any reading material I should read up on that would benefit me before taking the course, sadly Peter didn't bother replying to my email which I thought was ignorant considering I had just given him £400.
Fast forward to the day of the course and I turned up at the venue to find the bar area of the hotel packed, my first thought was that there must be another room hired out for something else but they were in fact all there for the course, 20 of us in total which I found misleading from the picture on his site with about 8 people sat around a table, it went from what I thought would be an up close meeting where a few of us had the chance to pick his brains to me being sat about 30 feet away at the other end of the room struggling at times to hear what he was saying.
Peter then started his seminar by telling us "I don't really need to do these courses" while I'm sure everyone was sat there like me thinking about the £8k he was making on the day and wondering if he was actually taking the** or not.
He then spent the morning telling us about bet angel and the different things you can do with it, he had a go at bookmaking and made a complete mess of it while attempting to kill time by telling us the tale of when he had a dream about Southampton getting relegated and how he was 7th in some fantasy football competition by predicting 1-1 in every scoreline, by this time I was feeling more than bored but was still optimistic about the horse racing in the afternoon.
Lunch arrived and Peter sat down and was telling people how he and Adam Heathcote often ring each other to discuss how they were doing, which was different to the "we only share links" he claims on his site, still I think a few got more info out of being able to pick his brains over lunch than they did for the rest of the course.
The afternoon session started with a buzz of anticipation as this was what we were all there for, that soon disappeared as two things I were expecting from the course failed to happen, first of all he didn't cover graphs and how he reads them at all which was a huge disappointment, secondly I was expecting to be able to watch him trade and learn from his style but this didn't happen either, we were treated to him trying to trade 2 races, one using his instant back bet button on bet angel when the original bet was matched and another with him trying to scalp by pushing through his bet, he did make money on the bet he tried to push through but lost far more when trying to demonstrate the back bet facility.
That was it as far as live racing goes and the rest of the afternoon was filled with him showing us old videos of ones he'd done on another day that are available on his blog anyway.
There were a few interesting bits like how he puts money in the gaps on the ladder so that he's at the front of the cue if the price ever moves that far in that direction, he also explained how he thinks the prices become more volatile depending on the grade of the race as there is less money about, nothing groundbreaking anyway and the course notes are nothing to shout about either, in fact you can flick through most of it if you've ever used an API before as it is aimed at beginners.
I left the course and spent the 2 hour drive home feeling disappointed and felt like I had been ripped off, it could have been worse as there was a lad there who had come over from Australia for it.
Overall I would give the experience a 2/10 and one of those was for the curry I had at the hotel the night before.
Avoid.
Let the judges decide.....................................................................
Firstly lots of aftertiming :
Its not often you get such close matches so early on in a tournament, but massive credit to James Blake for almost pulling off a big shock today. It could be one of the best trading matches of the tournament; I think it will difficult to beat. In the last set you could have laid Del Petro at 1.06 only to see him reach break 2s just minutes later. Fantastic stuff, great trading fodder and very entertaining too. Del Potro is currently on course to meet Murray in a later round.
Del Potro won, eventually, 6-4 6-7 (3-7) 5-7 6-3 10-8.
Then a true account of the benefits of such trading "courses" :
I've been on the course and my advice to anyone would be to put the £400 into your betfair account instead as you will lose money when you first start out.
I was hopeful before I went, I wasn't expecting it to be the holy grail but I was hoping that it would help me improve on what I was doing and would give me a better idea on understanding the direction the price would go using graphs.
After paying for the course I received an email from Peter telling me where it would be and to send him an email telling him about my experiences with trading and what I hoped to get out of the course, I emailed him back with the information he wanted and I also asked him a few questions about whether there was any reading material I should read up on that would benefit me before taking the course, sadly Peter didn't bother replying to my email which I thought was ignorant considering I had just given him £400.
Fast forward to the day of the course and I turned up at the venue to find the bar area of the hotel packed, my first thought was that there must be another room hired out for something else but they were in fact all there for the course, 20 of us in total which I found misleading from the picture on his site with about 8 people sat around a table, it went from what I thought would be an up close meeting where a few of us had the chance to pick his brains to me being sat about 30 feet away at the other end of the room struggling at times to hear what he was saying.
Peter then started his seminar by telling us "I don't really need to do these courses" while I'm sure everyone was sat there like me thinking about the £8k he was making on the day and wondering if he was actually taking the** or not.
He then spent the morning telling us about bet angel and the different things you can do with it, he had a go at bookmaking and made a complete mess of it while attempting to kill time by telling us the tale of when he had a dream about Southampton getting relegated and how he was 7th in some fantasy football competition by predicting 1-1 in every scoreline, by this time I was feeling more than bored but was still optimistic about the horse racing in the afternoon.
Lunch arrived and Peter sat down and was telling people how he and Adam Heathcote often ring each other to discuss how they were doing, which was different to the "we only share links" he claims on his site, still I think a few got more info out of being able to pick his brains over lunch than they did for the rest of the course.
The afternoon session started with a buzz of anticipation as this was what we were all there for, that soon disappeared as two things I were expecting from the course failed to happen, first of all he didn't cover graphs and how he reads them at all which was a huge disappointment, secondly I was expecting to be able to watch him trade and learn from his style but this didn't happen either, we were treated to him trying to trade 2 races, one using his instant back bet button on bet angel when the original bet was matched and another with him trying to scalp by pushing through his bet, he did make money on the bet he tried to push through but lost far more when trying to demonstrate the back bet facility.
That was it as far as live racing goes and the rest of the afternoon was filled with him showing us old videos of ones he'd done on another day that are available on his blog anyway.
There were a few interesting bits like how he puts money in the gaps on the ladder so that he's at the front of the cue if the price ever moves that far in that direction, he also explained how he thinks the prices become more volatile depending on the grade of the race as there is less money about, nothing groundbreaking anyway and the course notes are nothing to shout about either, in fact you can flick through most of it if you've ever used an API before as it is aimed at beginners.
I left the course and spent the 2 hour drive home feeling disappointed and felt like I had been ripped off, it could have been worse as there was a lad there who had come over from Australia for it.
Overall I would give the experience a 2/10 and one of those was for the curry I had at the hotel the night before.
Avoid.
Let the judges decide.....................................................................
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Never actually read an account of what these courses consisted of, but sadly that's pretty much what I'd envisaged you'd get for your £400 hard earned :(, there's a small industry built up around betfair and obvioulsy people are lured by the promise of easy/free tax free money, I hope you manage to recoup your £400 on betfair, and look in the long term look at it as a relatively inexpensive lesson.
Nice to read a reasoned account of what's wrong with this stuff rather than just a whine.
Often think that when you email someone and get no reply about something that's pretty obvious to you, that you already have more long term hope than the person you're emailing.
Often think that when you email someone and get no reply about something that's pretty obvious to you, that you already have more long term hope than the person you're emailing.
20 people paying 400 quid each for that? He must be laughing.
My sympathy is limited though. I mean, who honestly flies over from Australia for a 400 pound betfair seminar? Clearly more money than sense.
Nice post though.
My sympathy is limited though. I mean, who honestly flies over from Australia for a 400 pound betfair seminar? Clearly more money than sense.
Nice post though.
Nice honest post Nutsy. I needed help in a specific area of my trading and paid a so called expert [lot less than you ]
He was a joke clueless but gives it large on the internet , thinking about it he was pathetic .
I really believe the people making the top money [pc charge] do not spill the beans .. GL
He was a joke clueless but gives it large on the internet , thinking about it he was pathetic .
I really believe the people making the top money [pc charge] do not spill the beans .. GL
It is absolutely frightening what lengths people go to. Australia ffs!!
I would want a 1 on 1 for that price
I would want a 1 on 1 for that price
Betfair should make your post a sticky nutsy but they probably think ponces like Peedy are good for business.
Nutsy,
Why not send a polite letter asking for a refund and outlining the reasons why you felt the course wasn't very useful, don't mention watchdog, trading standards or your MP as it will make you look like a moron ;)
Also make a copy of this thread in case somebody "inadvertently" posts something that would give the moderators good reason to delete it, this seems to happen quite a lot on threads regarding this individual.
Why not send a polite letter asking for a refund and outlining the reasons why you felt the course wasn't very useful, don't mention watchdog, trading standards or your MP as it will make you look like a moron ;)
Also make a copy of this thread in case somebody "inadvertently" posts something that would give the moderators good reason to delete it, this seems to happen quite a lot on threads regarding this individual.
I should clarify that the course was not my personal experience, I copied it from another forum.
Something that would be well worth the money would be to pay to be a "fly on the wall" for a week of a winning sports gambler.
The questions and stuff you could ask might help a little, but what would really get home that no amount of posting seems to be able to convey, is the brutal amount of time that goes into it. From the ever changing sleeping patterns, to the googling for seemingly ridiculous information and the strange balance between extreme logic and weird ideas that make up the forming of a bet.
Not to mention the time spent either creating new or adding to existing sheets/formula/whatever (different people have radically different approaches here) that may be as simple as converting a cricket 25/10/0 spread market into decimal odds, or as lengthy as working out what the odds are of a set win in tennis if the serving stats stay the same.
The ever annoying attempts to balance time between betting on the stuff where you have an established (and usually diminishing with time) edge and the (sometimes random and often fruitless) hunt for new avenues so that you have somewhere to go when your current stuff dries up.
I don't think I could teach very much beyond some bankroll management, but watching me (or preferably one of the many people much better than me) work for a week would not give you very much in the way of helpful information but would change your mindset forever. (This is not a service I offer fwiw :^0 )
The questions and stuff you could ask might help a little, but what would really get home that no amount of posting seems to be able to convey, is the brutal amount of time that goes into it. From the ever changing sleeping patterns, to the googling for seemingly ridiculous information and the strange balance between extreme logic and weird ideas that make up the forming of a bet.
Not to mention the time spent either creating new or adding to existing sheets/formula/whatever (different people have radically different approaches here) that may be as simple as converting a cricket 25/10/0 spread market into decimal odds, or as lengthy as working out what the odds are of a set win in tennis if the serving stats stay the same.
The ever annoying attempts to balance time between betting on the stuff where you have an established (and usually diminishing with time) edge and the (sometimes random and often fruitless) hunt for new avenues so that you have somewhere to go when your current stuff dries up.
I don't think I could teach very much beyond some bankroll management, but watching me (or preferably one of the many people much better than me) work for a week would not give you very much in the way of helpful information but would change your mindset forever. (This is not a service I offer fwiw :^0 )
sadly the thread becomes much less valid if you're not relating a personal experience.
When day-trading was huge in 97-98-99 in Canada and the States, the courses popped up. The North American model (which arrived here shortly after I arrived, perhaps because they had burnt out the market there) is to give a "free seminar" that scopes around 30 or 40 paying ($1500 was the price).
I went to a free one in 1998. Presentation of simple examples that made the audience feel "smart" (peaks, etc, on RSI. Bring on moving averages, etc). I never went to another. I bought around $100 worth of books and started reading. Even when I traded with my account, $50,000 with margin, I still kept reading. I never spent $1500 in books. Infact, maybe $200 with 75% being straight and technical leaving the interpretation up to me.
£400 to learn betfair from someone. No . There is not £400 worth of depth.
I consider myself a "survivor" who never stops learning, sometimes through trial and error, mainly through analysis and implication.
The past two days, I was playing in-running on the horses. No api. Just the site (back to the basics attitude). It was seamless (it happens sometimes). Could read the markets, the numbers, the races panned out as I thought. But after 5 years, 10 months, could I charge £400 for "my knowledge"?
Well, no. Firstly, an outrageous price. Secondly, I doubt I could describe "how" I make a profit, especially in-running, since it comes down to my interpretation of how an event will pan out thus how I position myself.
Trading knowledge: £19.99 for a decent book will cover more than a £400 course.
Losing your first £100 deposit will teach you more.
Making a small profit with your second will teach you more.
Building a bank slowly rather than lumping in £2000 to £2500 (the amount the gurus say you need) will teach you more.
I went to a free one in 1998. Presentation of simple examples that made the audience feel "smart" (peaks, etc, on RSI. Bring on moving averages, etc). I never went to another. I bought around $100 worth of books and started reading. Even when I traded with my account, $50,000 with margin, I still kept reading. I never spent $1500 in books. Infact, maybe $200 with 75% being straight and technical leaving the interpretation up to me.
£400 to learn betfair from someone. No . There is not £400 worth of depth.
I consider myself a "survivor" who never stops learning, sometimes through trial and error, mainly through analysis and implication.
The past two days, I was playing in-running on the horses. No api. Just the site (back to the basics attitude). It was seamless (it happens sometimes). Could read the markets, the numbers, the races panned out as I thought. But after 5 years, 10 months, could I charge £400 for "my knowledge"?
Well, no. Firstly, an outrageous price. Secondly, I doubt I could describe "how" I make a profit, especially in-running, since it comes down to my interpretation of how an event will pan out thus how I position myself.
Trading knowledge: £19.99 for a decent book will cover more than a £400 course.
Losing your first £100 deposit will teach you more.
Making a small profit with your second will teach you more.
Building a bank slowly rather than lumping in £2000 to £2500 (the amount the gurus say you need) will teach you more.
A footnote: Last year, I was looking for a tech to help me on the first few steps of joomla, an internet platform. I found one for 25/hr, one on one. I picked up joomla for dummies, coupled with youtube videos and working with Mrs Shapeshifter, we got things up and running.
A few months later, I got a call from the tech. He told me that he was doing a one day, 9 hour course for ten people. The price £750.00
"So, let me see if I have this right. I could have a one-on-one tutorial with you at £25, thus £225 for a day, or take a course with nine other people that works out to around £80 an hour".
There was silence on the other end of the phone. "You are right. But the difference is the course will have a power point presentation and includes lunch and coffee."
I asked him if he had a choice between a one-on-one or a course with nine other people, which would he take.
Silence then "I guess you don't want to take the course."
"You didn't answer the question. One-on-one for £25/hr or the course."
He then started describing the day trying to justify the £750 finishing that the community center it is at is really nice and near a tube.
"I'm five minutes from the thames link and our kitchen table has a nice view. Would the same aspects of the course be offered one-on-one? I'll even throw in lunch?"
Silence and then he hung up.
Perspective, people. Perspective.
A few months later, I got a call from the tech. He told me that he was doing a one day, 9 hour course for ten people. The price £750.00
"So, let me see if I have this right. I could have a one-on-one tutorial with you at £25, thus £225 for a day, or take a course with nine other people that works out to around £80 an hour".
There was silence on the other end of the phone. "You are right. But the difference is the course will have a power point presentation and includes lunch and coffee."
I asked him if he had a choice between a one-on-one or a course with nine other people, which would he take.
Silence then "I guess you don't want to take the course."
"You didn't answer the question. One-on-one for £25/hr or the course."
He then started describing the day trying to justify the £750 finishing that the community center it is at is really nice and near a tube.
"I'm five minutes from the thames link and our kitchen table has a nice view. Would the same aspects of the course be offered one-on-one? I'll even throw in lunch?"
Silence and then he hung up.
Perspective, people. Perspective.
Also interesting to note that nobody gives a monkey's that the OP cleaned up on the Blake match.
One has to ask why such an education/tipping industry exists around Betfair. For me the answer is plainly obvious: it's far easier to make a living teaching than it is to win from gambling.
According to his blog, Adam Heathcote made nearly 300K from betting, that's around 1K per day. Why on earth would anyone who is making that kind of money want to go to all the hassle of arranging seminars, taking payments, paying INCOME TAX, dealing with CUSTOMS & EXCISE, in order to teach people who may become competitors in the same market which provides that person with 300K per year?
The answer, again, is plainly obvious. I wouldn't want my mother to meet such people.
According to his blog, Adam Heathcote made nearly 300K from betting, that's around 1K per day. Why on earth would anyone who is making that kind of money want to go to all the hassle of arranging seminars, taking payments, paying INCOME TAX, dealing with CUSTOMS & EXCISE, in order to teach people who may become competitors in the same market which provides that person with 300K per year?
The answer, again, is plainly obvious. I wouldn't want my mother to meet such people.
The only thing worth learning is how to cope when it all starts going t1ts up, when to switch, damage limitation etc
You will never learn that from a course
You will never learn that from a course
Betfairy.. that is the best post I have ever read on this forum 100% spot on ..
Can we have that put up in lights forever !!
Can we have that put up in lights forever !!
Excellent post Nutsy.
Good of you to go to the trouble of informing the forum.
Good of you to go to the trouble of informing the forum.
top2rated it wasnt his experience
shapeshifter..great post
shapeshifter..great post
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