Racing for Change is no different an organisation than a union such as the RMT. A set of people who have to justify being paid £50k a year for, in reality, doing not much. This whole decimal v fractional debate will rage and rage with the older generation preferring to do things the traditional way and the younger generation embracing change.

In truth, it doesn't really matter wether the odds are deciamal or fractional. If you can't work out the returns of £30 at 100/30 then what makes you think you can work it out at 4.3333???
The route of the problem lies with arithmatic education in primary schools. Turning fractions into decimals and decimals into fractions is taught at a very young age so maybe a basic maths course should be offered to racegoers who can't work it out or a Ready Reckoner.

I you're no good with numbers then you probably shouldn't be betting anyway!

sicko, that's the way Towcester make it pay, although burger and *****is not for me no matter how hungry I am. I suppose anything alongside free entrance is good value.

With BF the dominant player these days it seems to make some sense that betting on all sports moves to decimal odds, however I am not too sure the odds presentation puts anybody off going racing.

Let's face it, the casual race goer (of which I am one) must surely understand the majority of odds anyway as they are displayed to one so v easy to work out.

If they are at all concerned that they are not sure what the likes of 8/13 mean then somebody would be better off telling them that their casual fiver would be better spent seeking out a 5/1 shot instead.

Fundamentally, racing is about the betting. You pay to go to footie, cricket, rugby or whatever to watch the match and see the players in action.

Nobody gives a shyte about what horses are running or what jockeys are riding. The race is only of interest because you have had a bet. To have to pay £20 or whatever when all you are going for is to bet is ridiculous. A nominal entry fee, including a free bet token of some description would be much more sensible.

Visionary, I don't believe fractional odds deter people from going racing, but I'm sure it puts some off from betting with the bookmaker, going to the t o t e or perhaps the betting shop. You mention 8/13 which is a common price on course, why not put up 3/5 ? For 8/11 why not 7/10 ?. Odds on betting in fractions is bizarre and actually shows the bookmakers to be lazy, as every odds on price is just a reversal of odds against prices.

The opening post was about decimal odds and that is what I am responding to, although I agree that admission charges are a biggish deterent, also prices and quality of food and drink. The racecourses are living in the past.

visionary please dont put bfair forward as the reason for decimals. they are totaly imaterial as to whether oncourse bookies should change their business model.if people wanna bert decimal then bet with the exchanges.its bad enuff having racing for change sticing gtheir nose in my business without having to do so cos bfair use decimsal.

Thoroughbred racing came of age with Eclipse, more than 250 years ago. In all that time, the use of fractional odds in betting has been a constant and despite the fact that there was very little education for the masses beyond age 12 until quite late in the 20th C there was never any difficulty it seems with anybody understanding how to bet.

In fact, there is quite a lot to be said for the use of fractional odds especially when doing mental arithmetic.

People use the difficult fractions such as 15/8 as examples of why its difficult. Whats difficult about betting 8 to win 15? Its only difficult if you try to convert it to decimals. And as for asking whether 15/8 is better or worse than 2/1 surely even a 5 yr can work out that 2x8 is more than 15?

For goodness sake, why change something that has worked for so long to replace it with an unproven alternative? Decimal odds are great for a betting exchange but BF have no more than 7% of the racing market. This is the tail wagging the dog.

Its like everything else in this country..Too many experts,that in reality know fck all.

Just because you mix in circles who understand fractional odds, don't kid yourself. The vast majority place an awful lot of trust (foolishly) in the bookie's offer and pre-internet, most punters would take whatever cr@p was offered.
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There are a few non-sequiturs in your reply.


Firstly, over 40% of the kids today go to university compared to 3% 50 years ago. You have to imagine that they can cope. Of the rest, the school leaving age is 16 compared to 12, years ago. Most leave with some king of certificate or other. Are you telling me that these kids find fractions incomprehensible? I don't believe it.

Secondly, trust has nothing to do with it and certainly has no connect with understanding fractions.

Thirdly,"pre-internet most people would take whatever bookies offered" implies that today they won't. What has that got to do with fractions versus decimal odds and how do you know that anyway.

No doubt some kid in some focus group has said that they don't understand the difference between say 5/2 and 11/4 and that has led to this bull***t. Where is the evidence for this claim ? Lets's see the numbers on a sensible sample of say 1000 people, before we all go off on this tangent issue which imo is not central to sorting out racing's problems.

I'll give you my view on this even if I really shouldn't , because I'm not from the UK nor do I bet on UK horse racing.
I grew up with the decimal system and during my 12 years at school I was always the best in my class at maths and I always got top grades , but even I find it a bit hard to get the grasp of fractional odds when it comes to betting. Probably because it's natural for me to recalculate them into decimal odds in my head. I can guarantee you that at least 50 % people growing up with decimal systems only , will never understand fractional odds on betting.
If the decimal system , as I believe , is used more and more in UK schools , there is no doubt in my mind that converting to decimal odds will increase turnover on UK horse betting in the future.

I believe it's in the human nature to be sceptic towards changes , but converting to decimals is a certainty at some point , so why fight it ?

Eddy
What I will give you is that decimals are essential for betting exchanges but that's all I will concede.

My point was more that horse race betting as any other buisniss needs to renew/recruit new customers all the time and if those just out of school or still in school is getting more and more used to the decimal system , staying with the fractional system is a big obsticle for newcomers.

eddy

You don't want to attract new racegoers/bettors at the expense of losing existing supporters though, do you.What's the point of that.

Not that changing to decimals odds would necessarily lead to that but many things that have been done such as attracting young crowds by putting on pop concerts, that does lead to that.

There is a lack of clarity about the aims of all this. If its getting more people to go racing then you have to be careful because the comfort limits get exceeded, the prices are increased for the big meetings because the courses know that they can do that when there is over-demand and yet for the small meetings crowds are derisory.

As for generating an interest in horseracing in the first place it may be that as with other products, the taste for it takes time to mature. Perhaps a focus on the youth market is conceptually wrong.

sandown , as I said in my opening post , I'm really not the one to solve the problems for UK horse racing.
One thing I know for sure though is that you are wrong when you think that most people think fractional odds betting is easy to understand.
I'll bet you all the money I have that less than 50 % of the grown population in UK could calculate in their head the net profits from a £ 5 bet @ 13/8.
The number of people that can do this is probably closer to 10 % than 50 %.

And does it make it any easier if you have to calculate £5 x 2.625?

To your first question , I just thought that a £ 5 note would be a natural amount to bet.

To your 2nd question , yes and I think most people would find it easier.

Its not hard to do it your head, even, is it?

What's the fractional odds for 2.63? 2.64?

The Betfairy

Does it matter because you don't need to convert from decimals into fractions?

If the bookmakers are using decimals then you wouldn't have to compare unless some other bookmaker is working in fractions in which case you would want to. Those using exchanges work to exchange prices. If they want to bet with bookies at fractional odds as well then life would be easier if they also bet in decimals I guess. Is that it, the advantage, I mean?