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Is there anyway around reducing how much you pay? Dont mind paying a bit extra but getting hit for hundreds a week is not nice.
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Tell me how you get to pay so much PC and I'll tell you how to avoid it. Deal?
jesus wept isnt it obvious you attention seeking tool
have mulitple accounts and spread your money around... use other ppl to place your bets.. people you can trust..
have mulitple accounts and spread your money around... use other ppl to place your bets.. people you can trust..
If you are paying 'hundreds per week' you must be making loads of money, so why are you complaining ?
kenilworth 30 Dec 08:35
If you are paying 'hundreds per week' you must be making loads of money, so why are you complaining ?---WHAT A WELL THOUGHT OUT REPLY the firm makes millions they should cut the commission then perhaps the players that have left would return and then more money would be floating around.
If you are paying 'hundreds per week' you must be making loads of money, so why are you complaining ?---WHAT A WELL THOUGHT OUT REPLY the firm makes millions they should cut the commission then perhaps the players that have left would return and then more money would be floating around.
Ela, I agree. I would like that very much a cut in commission as that would save me some money, although I'm not sure whether it would pull in more punters. Regards the Premium Charge, if I was paying just 5% on my profits I wouldn't be complaining about being charged, so why are those who ARE paying it complaining ? Quite unrealistic or greedy, take your pick.
If I was guaranteed profits every week then of course paying the charge would be a welcome side effect. But when winning is so difficult and takes a lot of doing its a bit much.
Some people find it easy to win, if this forum is anything to go by. Perhaps they should have two rates, one for those who win easily and the other for those find it hard.
they should have a choice of commission structures to reflect the fact that people use the site in different ways and BF benefit from both.
choice of the current system and a flat rate 10% on all winning markets would be fair in my view.
in answer to the OP: yes. but you'll probably have to figure it out as it's not really in anyone's interest to explain how it's done.
choice of the current system and a flat rate 10% on all winning markets would be fair in my view.
in answer to the OP: yes. but you'll probably have to figure it out as it's not really in anyone's interest to explain how it's done.
laroche, what % commission are you paying in relation to your profit ? I show a modest net profit but over the years have paid a lot of commission. If I was paying PM and hardly winning anything I would quit, and hard to understand why you continue betting.
kenilworth 30 Dec 10:29
Ela, I agree. I would like that very much a cut in commission as that would save me some money, although I'm not sure whether it would pull in more punters. Regards the Premium Charge, if I was paying just 5% on my profits I wouldn't be complaining about being charged, so why are those who ARE paying it complaining ? Quite unrealistic or greedy, take your pick
For one thing, you will never get PC refunded if you lose. There will be at least some people who are paying PC who don't even have an edge. (For instance people that think they can make money laying at 1000 or backing 1.01s etc.).
They can go a long time without losing significant amounts, get hammered by PC and then give it all back.
Ela, I agree. I would like that very much a cut in commission as that would save me some money, although I'm not sure whether it would pull in more punters. Regards the Premium Charge, if I was paying just 5% on my profits I wouldn't be complaining about being charged, so why are those who ARE paying it complaining ? Quite unrealistic or greedy, take your pick
For one thing, you will never get PC refunded if you lose. There will be at least some people who are paying PC who don't even have an edge. (For instance people that think they can make money laying at 1000 or backing 1.01s etc.).
They can go a long time without losing significant amounts, get hammered by PC and then give it all back.
Kenilworth
5% comm; always has been. Winnings since I joined are a little over £35k. I am not sure exactly how I come to qualify for PC, but it might be consistency; it is a rare day when I play and lose. The 72p was, though, an exceptionally low amount (included xmas) even for me. Why do I carry on? I do not find it either time consuming or an effort and, in any case, I'm retired on a nice pension.
5% comm; always has been. Winnings since I joined are a little over £35k. I am not sure exactly how I come to qualify for PC, but it might be consistency; it is a rare day when I play and lose. The 72p was, though, an exceptionally low amount (included xmas) even for me. Why do I carry on? I do not find it either time consuming or an effort and, in any case, I'm retired on a nice pension.
Hi MORDIN, It be interesting to see will they reform the PC for the 3rd time soon.. ;)
A guy would need to be BLIND or have TUNNEL VISION not to see how the new PC changes have now effected the markets on here. :0
Best prices are NOW a thing of the past in a lot of markets.
How long they will risk going on churning their customer base in a RECESSION will be interesting to watch.
As surely they never anticipated nearly 18 months after its introduction that there would be still threads going up here complaining about the PC every week. I see even the Racing Post gave it a mention too last week.
If thats not a bad enough signal for them. I noticed myself I have nearly £3k commission less paid since its introduction. As I've seriously curtailed my betting on here. There must be 100s more like me who's commisssion they are losing. :p
One thing for sure if they don't do it soon it will be too late for some markets such as in the Golf, Rugby, Tennis, GAA, and the NFL the ones I enjoy.
Anyway, Thankfully MORDIN while my turnover is a lot less my profit or (luck) from gambling is still running around the same as before. Just prefer to be back to the old days when I did do all my betting with Betfair instead of haven all these betting accounts now spread all over the planet.
But I guess life moves on. :(
But GOOD LUCK with it MORDIN.....AND .Fingers crossed Betfair see sense soon or at least refined it even just to stop guys like LAROCHE from ending up with PC demands for a miserable 74 pence this week.While the likes of LAROCHE might just smile to himself at the dedution I'm sure there was a lot others who just took flight as the implication for their NEXT winning bet was written all over that 74 pence demand.......Cheers Bless
A guy would need to be BLIND or have TUNNEL VISION not to see how the new PC changes have now effected the markets on here. :0
Best prices are NOW a thing of the past in a lot of markets.
How long they will risk going on churning their customer base in a RECESSION will be interesting to watch.
As surely they never anticipated nearly 18 months after its introduction that there would be still threads going up here complaining about the PC every week. I see even the Racing Post gave it a mention too last week.
If thats not a bad enough signal for them. I noticed myself I have nearly £3k commission less paid since its introduction. As I've seriously curtailed my betting on here. There must be 100s more like me who's commisssion they are losing. :p
One thing for sure if they don't do it soon it will be too late for some markets such as in the Golf, Rugby, Tennis, GAA, and the NFL the ones I enjoy.
Anyway, Thankfully MORDIN while my turnover is a lot less my profit or (luck) from gambling is still running around the same as before. Just prefer to be back to the old days when I did do all my betting with Betfair instead of haven all these betting accounts now spread all over the planet.
But I guess life moves on. :(
But GOOD LUCK with it MORDIN.....AND .Fingers crossed Betfair see sense soon or at least refined it even just to stop guys like LAROCHE from ending up with PC demands for a miserable 74 pence this week.While the likes of LAROCHE might just smile to himself at the dedution I'm sure there was a lot others who just took flight as the implication for their NEXT winning bet was written all over that 74 pence demand.......Cheers Bless
reason is, that 35K means your allowance is used up, so the only way you can now have a winning week and not pay is if your profit that week is less than5 times your total charges (as defined by BF, not actual charges paid.)
once you are in the PC zone you can have one 2 quid bet in a week, win 50p, and they're coming after you for their bit the following week.
once you are in the PC zone you can have one 2 quid bet in a week, win 50p, and they're coming after you for their bit the following week.
Bless
Please don't exaggerate! It was 72p, not 74p.
I wonder if that's the lowest PC ever paid.
Please don't exaggerate! It was 72p, not 74p.
I wonder if that's the lowest PC ever paid.
laroche, thanks for the answer but I meant how much gross commission had you paid on your total profit, not the rate you pay at. I have grossed a similar amount to you but I suspect Betfair have taken more commission from me than you. Good luck anyway.
kenilworth
Not sure how to check total comm paid. I suspect, like you say, it's v little, relatively speaking; in the process of winning the £35k I lost hardly anything.
Not sure how to check total comm paid. I suspect, like you say, it's v little, relatively speaking; in the process of winning the £35k I lost hardly anything.
I have read up on it but haven't a clue about PCs. I am paying 5% commission on wins at the moment, is that PC? or do the charges come in at another time? I'm not a big gambler, only been football betting a month and about £80 up.
In an earlier thread a person said he hid his money in a long term 1.01 bet, I asked him why he did this? but Betfair disalowed the question and minutes after took the thread down, I think the reason he did it was something to do with premium charge, I dont know that, but that was my belief .
reading about it again, in summary, if your total charges don't match up to 20% of gross profit in a week then they take the difference anyway?
no moves 30 Dec 19:00
In an earlier thread a person said he hid his money in a long term 1.01 bet, I asked him why he did this? but Betfair disalowed the question and minutes after took the thread down, I think the reason he did it was something to do with premium charge, I dont know that, but that was my belief .
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not necessarily. it's an easy way to protect yourself from blowing your bank on a typo or to a trap bet. say your bank's 10K, you could put up an offer to lay birmingham to win the league for 9 million quid to make 9K of your bank temporarily unusable/unlosable but easily accessible.
surprised BF took the thread down tbh. not sure what objectionable reason there is.
In an earlier thread a person said he hid his money in a long term 1.01 bet, I asked him why he did this? but Betfair disalowed the question and minutes after took the thread down, I think the reason he did it was something to do with premium charge, I dont know that, but that was my belief .
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not necessarily. it's an easy way to protect yourself from blowing your bank on a typo or to a trap bet. say your bank's 10K, you could put up an offer to lay birmingham to win the league for 9 million quid to make 9K of your bank temporarily unusable/unlosable but easily accessible.
surprised BF took the thread down tbh. not sure what objectionable reason there is.
Paid 41p Premium Charge this week. Last of the big hitters.
Premium charge is annoying but I find that I prefer making a consistent profit and paying PC prefferable to the opposite.
Generally avoiding PC is a bit of a waste of time, it's much better just to concentrate on maximising winnings and cough up than to try upping your comission generated- which ultimately you can only do by losing.
One thing you can do to reduce the sting of PC is get your normal comission down as far as possible, that way you can move from losing out under the implied comission rule to gaining from it.
The more PC you're paying the better you're doing, you just have to look at it positively.
Generally avoiding PC is a bit of a waste of time, it's much better just to concentrate on maximising winnings and cough up than to try upping your comission generated- which ultimately you can only do by losing.
One thing you can do to reduce the sting of PC is get your normal comission down as far as possible, that way you can move from losing out under the implied comission rule to gaining from it.
The more PC you're paying the better you're doing, you just have to look at it positively.
I agree mr robot. it's easier to make 20% more than avoid the charge ime.
hillside
Well played! I'll have to up my game!
Any advance on 41p?
Well played! I'll have to up my game!
Any advance on 41p?
I paid £234 premium charge last week. Surely people are going to move to the purple side taking profits there and leaving their Betfair account showing a loss for the week? Bless, is this not an obvious strategy to use surely betfair would be aware of this?
MORDIN...Betfair are acting just like a wh0re there probably making quick gains from the PC but there selling their brand name now down the shore.
In 18 months time not only will they have lost the little guys who are paying the pittance every week but also the middle of the roads guys like yourself and myself who are just changing our betting habits and moving to other competitors slowy and gradually.
You can see it happening clearly in the quieter markets at the moment where it would be more obiviously than the popular ones. But it must be happening in the popular ones as well.
I suppose the guys who make the big money will hang around a little longer but eventally with all of us left you will wonder will the bigger players still find it worthwhile to risk their capital and tie up their money withl their margins and turnover gradually eroding as the months go on.
It certainly be interesting to see how it unrolls. You could be seen business history been made on how a company went from boom to BURST in such a short period of time. B-)
With most of my betting been done elsewhere now like me I can see their customers staying with them especially the U/K and Irish ones just how long now it will take the exodus will be fascinating to watch.
I certainly wouldn't buy shares in them now if they did decide to float on the stock market this summer as some predict. This PC thing surely is going to undo them imo . :^0 ........Cheers
In 18 months time not only will they have lost the little guys who are paying the pittance every week but also the middle of the roads guys like yourself and myself who are just changing our betting habits and moving to other competitors slowy and gradually.
You can see it happening clearly in the quieter markets at the moment where it would be more obiviously than the popular ones. But it must be happening in the popular ones as well.
I suppose the guys who make the big money will hang around a little longer but eventally with all of us left you will wonder will the bigger players still find it worthwhile to risk their capital and tie up their money withl their margins and turnover gradually eroding as the months go on.
It certainly be interesting to see how it unrolls. You could be seen business history been made on how a company went from boom to BURST in such a short period of time. B-)
With most of my betting been done elsewhere now like me I can see their customers staying with them especially the U/K and Irish ones just how long now it will take the exodus will be fascinating to watch.
I certainly wouldn't buy shares in them now if they did decide to float on the stock market this summer as some predict. This PC thing surely is going to undo them imo . :^0 ........Cheers
Thanks for the quality reply as usual Bless. I dont plan to leave Betfair at all, I need the liquidity here and am glad to say Ive had a decent 3 months up £9K. What I wanted really to run past you was if it is feasible to for example lay horses on here and back them back over in Purple and ensure I leave my account down over the week. So although I win say £1k in a week trading its actually over in purple? does this leave me exempt from the charge?
Mordin
I've not read through other replies........Sometimes I've used the other exchange to lay off trades. Double wammy really with double commission and I've payed more that way....just less premium charge
Short term answer is to ARB laying off on here even for no overall profit [although over time rule 4's can help a touch]
No good for me as accounts closed or heavily restricted.......over time almost certain to win from the book and therefore lose on Betfair with these trades Eventually accounts will be closed
I've not read through other replies........Sometimes I've used the other exchange to lay off trades. Double wammy really with double commission and I've payed more that way....just less premium charge
Short term answer is to ARB laying off on here even for no overall profit [although over time rule 4's can help a touch]
No good for me as accounts closed or heavily restricted.......over time almost certain to win from the book and therefore lose on Betfair with these trades Eventually accounts will be closed
blessington where exactly can you move your betting to??
i play in running and my betting needs an exchange to do my work
not some fixed odds bookmaker.
im afraid the purple site just isnt up to the job when the markets go
in play so where exactly can you go to??
trouble is ive found it harder the past year and im now at a stage
where i pay the pc charge on a winning week and often follow it with a losing week where obviously i dont get any refund!!
i dont seem to get my % much over 20 either so im getting collared
almost all the time since they brought in the lifetime p/l thing.
i play in running and my betting needs an exchange to do my work
not some fixed odds bookmaker.
im afraid the purple site just isnt up to the job when the markets go
in play so where exactly can you go to??
trouble is ive found it harder the past year and im now at a stage
where i pay the pc charge on a winning week and often follow it with a losing week where obviously i dont get any refund!!
i dont seem to get my % much over 20 either so im getting collared
almost all the time since they brought in the lifetime p/l thing.
Mordin. 31 Dec 01:54
What I wanted really to run past you was if it is feasible to for example lay horses on here and back them back over in Purple and ensure I leave my account down over the week. So although I win say £1k in a week trading its actually over in purple? does this leave me exempt from the charge?
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that works IF you can guarantee that the losses are on the betfair side of the arb. but what happens if the wins are on betfair?
What I wanted really to run past you was if it is feasible to for example lay horses on here and back them back over in Purple and ensure I leave my account down over the week. So although I win say £1k in a week trading its actually over in purple? does this leave me exempt from the charge?
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that works IF you can guarantee that the losses are on the betfair side of the arb. but what happens if the wins are on betfair?
TAXI....Yeah there is nothing you can do thats why guys like yourself will be last to go but I'm sure like all of us you have curtailed your betting here now on Betfair.
Prefering instead when your haven a single win bet or just plain fun bet to do it somewhere where you can avoid the PC in case it does win.
I don't bet in running not now anyway with all the fast picture stuff so I'm not curtailed there.
........................................................................
But yeah I have had to adjust my betting style since the PC came in but thankfully it has worked pretty well. I suppose in short I now bet less but heavier and use more outlets which actually now leaves me more time to get on with the rest of my life.
Something most of us you had to neglect working as a full timer on Betfair over the last 10 years.
I can't wait now for this summer to tell you the truth, too start living again some normal summer weekends, instead of spending it rushing from one betting market to the other.
As whether to sacifice your social life to pay 23% commission is now just a no brainer decision to make imo. :^0 .....Cheers
Prefering instead when your haven a single win bet or just plain fun bet to do it somewhere where you can avoid the PC in case it does win.
I don't bet in running not now anyway with all the fast picture stuff so I'm not curtailed there.
........................................................................
But yeah I have had to adjust my betting style since the PC came in but thankfully it has worked pretty well. I suppose in short I now bet less but heavier and use more outlets which actually now leaves me more time to get on with the rest of my life.
Something most of us you had to neglect working as a full timer on Betfair over the last 10 years.
I can't wait now for this summer to tell you the truth, too start living again some normal summer weekends, instead of spending it rushing from one betting market to the other.
As whether to sacifice your social life to pay 23% commission is now just a no brainer decision to make imo. :^0 .....Cheers
Happy new year bless, glad to read between the lines that you have reached some sort of financial freedom best wishes for 2010. Logging off for 2009.
Problem with trying to arb say against betquack is that if you have a great week on here you are stuffed.
I don't know if you have any, but large volume betting of "systems" that pretty much break even may be a good way to go ie generated a whole load of real (or implied) commission just by churning over the same money time and again.
However, even these kind of high volume bets may end up in you winning a lot some weeks, in which case it may be counter productive.
I don't know if you have any, but large volume betting of "systems" that pretty much break even may be a good way to go ie generated a whole load of real (or implied) commission just by churning over the same money time and again.
However, even these kind of high volume bets may end up in you winning a lot some weeks, in which case it may be counter productive.
BETFAIR have coursed a lot of harm to the site many markets are now not worth looking at and all markets are turning over less it seems like they just push there own games and promote the betfair sp. a lot of ill feeling now towards betfair where as. a few years ago the talk was all good now its all bad.
That time of the week again for another slice stripped from the account.
Good that people do still keep bringing this up so it just doesnt drift away and become accepted.
I've had to virtually stop betting on here because of it. Its an absolute disgrace and will ultimately kill them in the long run unless they sort it out.
I've had to virtually stop betting on here because of it. Its an absolute disgrace and will ultimately kill them in the long run unless they sort it out.
Id be happy to pay 10% and have all customers pay 10% comm. No gimmicks or long algorithms just a plain and simple 10% for all. No betfair holidays. no betfair points. just a flat 10% across the board.
Seems fair to me.
Seems fair to me.
jme , you are just plain stupid if you don't undestand that your suggestion would kill Betfair within weeks.
vic , that would still kill Betfair. Only difference is that it would probably take months , not weeks.
Traders paying as much as 10% of their profits !! It would suit them ok but as Feck says, they would have no one to feed off.
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