|
By:
subversion 23 Dec 12:21
Betfairy - if you sell me some shares on the LSE, i have to pay stamp duty, you have to pay capital gains tax, we both have to pay exchange fees (and the exchange gets taxed on its revenues), etc etc... There is another fascinating subject. Share trading is generally accepted to be liable to CGT and not income tax. However I am aware that people have claimed share trading as a trade and have claimed losses against other income. The person that pulled that stunt should be known to you and his name will come back to me in a while. A bit of an issue with him on the Sunderland manager market, or so I understand. |
|
By:
It could even be Dr Evil. There is Evil in his name somewhere. Anyway he is an ex taxman a shorter and prominent.
Dr Evil 21 Dec 18:45 Suppose that "private individual living and paying tax in Britain" were a bookmaker. I think under those circumstances HMRC might be a bit interested in his betfair winnings. |
|
By:
If it can be argued that a person were carrying on a trade by profiting from gambling (that is, making a risk-free book by using Betfair), then surely he is also liable to pay gambling duty?
|
|
By:
Ignore the mischief maker, your situation is fine Chris.
|
|
By:
I am out of my depth here betfairy but you could be right.
|
|
By:
When can a completely risk free position be achieved in betfair? Almost all trading/arbing involves an element of risk - there is a "gamble" involved somewhere
|
|
By:
Amanda Hugnkiss 23 Dec 12:39 Ignore the mischief maker, your situation is fine Chris. Amanda, My tax code is not the same as the bloke down the pub. He has 665L and I have 453L. Do I have a case to complain to R&C please? |
|
By:
JamesBlakesHugeArse 23 Dec 12:42
When can a completely risk free position be achieved in betfair? Almost all trading/arbing involves an element of risk - there is a "gamble" involved somewhere same can be applied to bookies can't it... their business model isn't completely risk free, and yet they still get taxed |
|
By:
Does gambling winnings fall under Capital Gains or Income?
The UK Tax Laws clearly state that gambling winnings are exempt of Capital Gains. Therefore, for a person to be liable to income tax, would it not have to be proved that his gambling winnings are not winnings but was income. In other words, he would have to be proved to be a bookmaker? If he is a bookmaker, then surely he would have to possess of gaming licence and then also be liable to Remote Gaming Duty? I still feel safe, for now :) |
|
By:
JamesBlakesHugeArse 23 Dec 12:42
When can a completely risk free position be achieved in betfair? Almost all trading/arbing involves an element of risk - there is a "gamble" involved somewhere Agreed. But the bookies also take a gamble do they not when they make books? I have not noticed a zero Corporation Tax charge in their published accounts when they make a profit. |
|
By:
The Betfairy 23 Dec 12:45
he would have to be proved to be a bookmaker? If he is a bookmaker, then surely he would have to possess of gaming licence and then also be liable to Remote Gaming Duty? either that, or found that you've been bookmaking without a license ;) (only kidding - i'm not that paranoid) |
|
By:
I think it's a serious point. Maybe the whole thing can be argued as simply as that. Either:
a) there is no income tax to pay, ever (with the exception of partnerships/syndicates/investments where one party is earning by charging a commission) b) there is income tax payable and therefore a bookmaking licence is required and gaming duty should be paid. Have I missed something? |
|
By:
well that's it really, the individual is not a company, has no licence, is not subject to corporation tax - gambling/trading/arbing is similar to share dealing - you take a position and once you are out of that position you are either in profit or showing a loss. But our type of gambling is not to be assessed as a capital gain?
The company is taxed very differently to the individual - would be interested to see what the Revenue would do should a group of indivuals come together, pool resources, minimise costs for the purposes of trading/arbing? Or should I say, it will be interesting to see what they will say when they become aware of it. |
|
By:
The Betfairy 23 Dec 13:0 Have I missed something? Yes. Tax legislation, case law and practice bears no direct relationship to bookmaking licences. Whether part time or full time bears no direct relationship either. |
|
By:
The company is taxed very differently to the individual -
In the UK the same basic principles apply whether incorporated or not. |
|
By:
Badges of trade innit.
|
|
By:
a puzzling thread
|