We want to share an important update with our Betfair Community users.
Over the coming months, the Betfair Community platform will be winding down. The final active day for the platform will be December 21st. From December 22nd, users will no longer be able to access the platform.
Your discussions, insights, engagement, and, most importantly, feedback have helped shape the platform and guided innovation. Your feedback continues to be important to us, and we will continue to listen via our dedicated feedback channels, as well as through product testing and innovations.
To share your feedback and experience, visit: https://support.betfair.com/app/home
General Betting
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
17 Dec 09
14:21
Joined:
Date Joined:
10 Jan 02
Laying into 100-103% books or 105% books early doors on horse racing laying each runner to between £2 and £10. I wouldnt have thought it possible at all.
sort by:
Show
per page
Replies: 59
|
By:
Just wouldn't get matched on everything i suppose
|
|
By:
To make money as a bookmaker you need price-insensitive customers.
To make money on Betfair you need a price-beating system. |
|
By:
Works fine one day,but not the next two.
|
|
By:
if you kept making a profit on every race laying to percentages which sounds boring anyway, wouldn't the premium charge kick in and make it very silly indeed?
|
|
By:
Just trying to figure out what Peter Thomas is on about
|
|
By:
selective laying , laying losers full stop , guaranteed profits
|
|
By:
CLYDEBANK , doing it with those small amounts could actually give you a profit , but the returns are so small that it isn't worth the time spent.
The problem is that when/if you start doing it for larger amounts you will get caught be the shrewdies in early markets and by rapid price movements in the last 10 - 20 minutes before the off. |
|
By:
The intention of this thread was to highlight the nonsense spoken in the RP which was highlighted by howard's thread that cant be responded to.
It seems you all agree with me |
|
By:
what was said in the RP?
|
|
By:
It is possible. 105% no. 100.5% yes.
|
|
By:
allegedly the journalist said this...
He says " Paul Roy isnt wrong... when he says that " no-one can be in business acting as a boomaker on betting exchanges without paying full levy ". ...................... the point of this being that it's virtuallly impossible to be a bookmaker on a betting exchange nowadays and turn a profit or if you do it's a pittance. |
|
By:
It would be interesting to trace the entire history of relations between certain bookmakers and journalists/BHA officials.
It would seem these people will advance any kind of myth to get their hands on our money. This country sinks to new lows with each passing day. |
|
By:
Yes it is virtually impossible and nothing like bookmaking as the level of skill required to extract a profit is astronomically greater. Stupid quote even if it was easy.
|
|
By:
Peter Thomas :- Paul Roy isnt wrong... when he says that " no-one can be in business acting as a boomaker on betting exchanges without paying full levy ".
Betfair forumites will cough , splutter and hide behind the spurious notion that any layer of a horse is also a backer , in the sense that he is , in effect , backing all the other horses in the race , and vice-versa. On this basis , Ladblokes , C oral and H ills could be deemed to be all punters , and spared the inconviences of levies , licences , taxes and the need to be fit and proper persons. By the same argument all backers with bookmakers are layers and should also pay levy. Any bookmaker is at liberty to offer odds on a horse to lose just as betfair the bookmaker do. The fact they choose not to do that (the direct way at least) is their choice. |
|
By:
yeah good point, absurd comparison
another point is that 'bookmakers' on here have to take bets from whoever as you don't know who is placing them, you can't just match Money Tree's bets :) |
|
By:
want 200 on at evens? let me cancel my lay and offer it to you again at 1.8
|
|
By:
test
|
|
By:
I've tried posting on this and howard's thread but keeping getting a "this is a moderated forum .............." message.
|
|
By:
Just happened again with the post I was trying to make.
|
|
By:
Yes Yes .. but only if you know the game inside out ......
|
|
By:
´Laying each runner´?
In my experience, no, this is just not possible, even to those sums; you lose control over pricing to people who are better informed than you. It´s poss. to win as a layer but not imv w/out being more selective or more of a judge. |
|
By:
In the conventional sense, it is impossible.
Even if you can pick the direction of every favourite (impossible), the premium charge will eat you alive. In an unbalanced book it is possible. Laying multiple horses where the % of the runners covered in your part book is in your favour. |
|
By:
Why would the premium charge 'eat you alive'?
|
|
By:
What a load of tosh written on this thread. It is entirely possible and the PC does not come anywhere near 'eating you alive'.
|
|
By:
Cuban , of course it's possible , but I'd say it's very difficult and close to impossible to make consistant profit from it. You are right about the PC though.
|
|
By:
The ones who will make good profits are those laying with a marked card
It is easy to lay horses you know have not been working well or are not particularly fancied. |
|
By:
It is entirely possible and the PC does not come anywhere near 'eating you alive'.
Absolutely right- and the PC comments are particularly dim as PC is only payed on consistent profits and is only ever a small part of them. It's not an easy thing to do but it can be done if you know how. Whether it's worth is is a different question, as if you can do it you can probably do something better. |
|
By:
'I've tried posting on this and howard's thread but keeping getting a "this is a moderated forum .............." message.'
i think references to the R acing P ost and Pricewi$e trigger this message |
|
By:
I didn't mention either Duncan. I don't think the post referred to any individual.
|
|
By:
Cuban 18 Dec 08:14 What a load of tosh written on this thread. It is entirely possible and the PC does not come anywhere near 'eating you alive'. I would have thought that it is too. I don't do it as I know nothing more about horses than that they have 4 legs and tend to fall over every now and again. It can be done and is done on other markets, so why not horse racing? It seems to me that there is too much punting to green up on individual markets. Whereas if you know the maths are with you then you ought to be able to take losses and profits and over a period it will work. |
|
By:
I run a bookmaking bot and it makes good money. Of course its possible and the premium charge only takes 20% maximum, and that's if you don't do anything else. But I would say it isn't easy. It's an advanced bot that has taken a lot of development and people trying to do it manually stand no chance.
|
|
By:
I'm sure it's possible with an advanced computerised system skimming small profits time after time, where there is enough liquidity on the lay side at close to 100% for the bot acting quickly to gobble up and prevent the field layer getting a very unbalanced book against live selections, but I would say it represents a tiny fraction of successful users of this site.
|
|
By:
If you are making no risk books, you pay commission on profit, not on turnover, therefore implied commission will always be less than commission paid.
Ergo - Hello 20% tax. |
|
By:
Don't get this wrong because I hate the PC , but since when does a 20 % tax on winnings/earnings "eat you alive" ?
|
|
By:
Whatever way you play you will pay at least 20% of what would otherwise be your profits in comission. The only way of avoiding PC is to find some other way of paying extra "normal" comission. The idea that paying implied comission by losing is better than paying actual comission by winning is just daft. Other than in "comission paying" strategies which are not really trying to make a profit it is always best to optimise your betting to lose as little as possible.
A strategy that pays PC is inherantly better than one that does not as that shows that you are paying as little comission as is humanly possible. So yes- if you have a very reliable strategy (bookmaking or otherwise) you will pay PC. Will this "eat you alive"? Of course not- obviously. |
|
By:
Eddie the eagle 18 Dec 12:26
Don't get this wrong because I hate the PC , but since when does a 20 % tax on winnings/earnings "eat you alive" ? It doesn't. If you take big profits one week and big losses the next, then it hurts. But if each week you sit on a profit then is is more manageable. It is strange how that has affected my betting tbh. I have a different mentality on whether I sit with a week commencing profit or loss come Tuesday night or If I know I am sitting on a profit or loss that will settle in a certain week. |
|
By:
I know what you mean Alex. Another curious effect is that it makes me mind losing less becuase I think "oh well, at least it gets my percentage up". Obviously this is a ridiculous thought but it does ease the blow of a big loss a little bit.
|
|
By:
Of course it will eat you alive you have to factor in a 25% reduction in profits, this is not viable unless you're regularly making books in excess 110%.
Very few could regularly make 110% books as an average. |
|
By:
It's a reduction of typically 17-18% on your OVERALL profit after normal comission. Please explain how this "eats you alive"- because to me keeping 80% of you OVERALL profits seems ok.
|