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Justin Whittle's Elbow
04 Nov 09 10:15
Joined:
Date Joined: 10 Apr 03
| Topic/replies: 335 | Blogger: Justin Whittle's Elbow's blog
Hi guys, refugee from the football forum here and someone who's recently been captured by the Premium Charge baddies.

This may sound like an astoundingly dense question, to which I anticipate well-deserved scorn - but are there any actual benefits to being on this? Bear with me, this isn't a wind-up...it just seems that if Betfair is helping itself to my winnings (which are quite modest - I'm certainly not a pro), it'd be nice to offer something in return.

I'm being stupid aren't I?
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Report Amanda Hugnkiss November 4, 2009 11:18 AM GMT
yes. :(
Report 1.01 Layer November 4, 2009 11:23 AM GMT
Never let go of the dream ;-)

Sadly, I think they would take whatever they think they can get away with and give absolutely nothing in return. It's all about lining their pockets.
Report jimmy69 November 4, 2009 11:26 AM GMT
Ah..but you could say that you are lining your pockets because of Betfair. Just be grateful for that...
Report aye robot November 4, 2009 11:29 AM GMT
I think they would take whatever they think they can get away with and give absolutely nothing in return.

That's what we're all doing on here.
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 11:33 AM GMT
It's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other.

BF would charge even more i guess if they felt it was in their interests ,but even they can't always decipher if winners are long term or short term unless theyve been on here for yonks ,so theres no point cutting your nose to spite your face.
As far as benefits go ,there are few ...but i like to think the game is made slightly easier since the PC (maybe not 22.5% though)
There must be a few who gave up on here because it reached the threshold where it was more profitable to take a well paid job.

Or am i on the wrong bus ? :)
Report Amanda Hugnkiss November 4, 2009 11:34 AM GMT
yes. :(
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 11:37 AM GMT
Do you think no one at all has left the site since the PC ,Amanda ?

I don't know the answer ,i 'm asking you your opinion :)
Report Amanda Hugnkiss November 4, 2009 11:45 AM GMT
No :)
Report 1.01 Layer November 4, 2009 11:46 AM GMT
Agree entirely, Robot but we're gambling, not providing a service or charging people for betting with us.
Report Moon Light November 4, 2009 12:49 PM GMT
I think they would take whatever they think they can get away with and give absolutely nothing in return.

That's what we're all doing on here.

I helped a little old lady up out of her chair this morning, so we're not all totally selfish.
Report aye robot November 4, 2009 12:50 PM GMT
Was it so that you could rob a few pound coins from down the back of it?
Report Justin Whittle's Elbow November 4, 2009 12:51 PM GMT
Cheers guys.

I wouldn't mind so much if I was a big player creaming thousands on here, but it's a rare week when my winnings top £200 so I'm not even important enough to take money from.

Oh well.

Not even a diary at Christmas then....?
Report jasp November 4, 2009 1:13 PM GMT
I wonder how many premium charge payers are premium account holders? I feel that as soon as you pay a premium charge you should automatically be given a premium account so then at least you are getting something back for the extra money they take off you. A slightly better service, an account manager, Bf hospitality etc.
Report Blessington November 4, 2009 1:16 PM GMT
Justin a £200 winning week is a big target for Betfair is this guy caleyjags thread is anything to go by. :^0

caleyjags 28 Oct 17:00
Hi I notice I have been charged 19p Betfair Premium Charge this week.

................................................................................................................

COACH...Any gain from picking up the pieces thats guys who quit might have left behind is short gained......
Guys on here are not stup1d and when they see Betfair is no longer the best place for prices they will also take their business elsewhere .
Plus the guys who have moved on have to have taken some of the liquildy with them from these markets.

I suppose the good point of the PC is layers can now offer lower prices than before with less opposition. But obiviously that won't suit you if you are a punter. ;(
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 1:37 PM GMT
'I suppose the good point of the PC is layers can now offer lower prices than before with less opposition'

_________________________________

Thats more or less the road i was going down Blessington .

On tha different note ,Liquidity isn't a massive benefit in itself .
There are two types of liquidity.
Smart and the not so smart .

No point having millions of pounds on here in smart money if youre trying to win a few quid.
Report birch2 November 4, 2009 2:48 PM GMT
2 things come to mind

Betfair ' anticipate' less PC payers and taking less money - so some customers must benefit
but ............. do you believe them? The new calc definitely catches all the winners that were previously in the 21-32% commission bracket

If your a PC payer on here, whats the point of backing an evens chance on here - your immediately betting at 4/5 .............................who benefits here?
Report Blessington November 4, 2009 3:22 PM GMT
COACH....Betfair is all about liquidity in my opinion. Most layers on here will tell you they don't make money off the shrewd punter.

Where they make the money is taking on the hopeful bets who are made up of punters who are betting for fun.

But the only way they can match those bets is by taking it in off laying the favourites. As a layer couldn't call himself shrewd if he just layed the lesser fancied ones as they do win as well.

But in the long run laying lesser fancied ones with favourite punters money which you know your going to pay straight back out as one of them will more than likely win, is usually the road to successfull laying.

Thats why liquidity is so important, who is going to constantly risk laying the longer price ones, unless they have taken some money already on the field. As two or three of them going in on a day and your bank is gone.

Whether that liquidity will be still there in 12 months or 24 months time we have to see. But taking 19p off punters in Premiun Charges would make you wonder how long joe soap will accept it.Cheers
Report Trader11 November 4, 2009 3:45 PM GMT
I feel that as soon as you pay a premium charge you should automatically be given a premium account

eeeerrrrrr... what is a premium account??
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 4:28 PM GMT
Bleesington.

I have never seen the logic in laying favourites whoever is putting up the money . ;)

Give me illiquid markets anyday ,or heavy populated markets where all and sundry bet .

Those in between markets with moderate liquidity and market prices are dead wood to me :)
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 4:29 PM GMT
eeeerrrrrr... what is a premium account??

___________________

Otherwise known as the paatinum account ;)
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 4:30 PM GMT
the keys on my keyboard are a little sticky :)
Report roache November 4, 2009 4:42 PM GMT
betfair are totally wrong in punishing winners however modest who do not resort to using bots etc,from now on other sites must be used if you are simply backing or any big football match that will attract substantial liquidity for trading,i am a modest player yet now hit paying 22.5% of my winnings on here unless they yet again change the rules and they will not be beneficial for customers despite the garb thats spouted
Report Trader11 November 4, 2009 4:43 PM GMT
i think coach is pulling my leg... u take advantage because english is not first language :(
Report birch2 November 4, 2009 5:33 PM GMT
roache

yes thats exactly my problem with them

If they openly said we will charge you from 'x' date - by a calc that only commences on that date - then like it or not, you know where you stand.
But to create a charge based on retrospective winnings, is reprehensible

In 6 months time, whats to stop them changing the calc to bring more people into this PC charge? .....and then probably claim that they 'anticipate' less people paying the charge

I think they are in real danger of killing the goose that laid the golden egg
Report Moon Light November 4, 2009 8:42 PM GMT
You don't seriously think the PC is intended to be beneficial for customers do you?
Report Coachbuster November 4, 2009 9:06 PM GMT
Trader 11 ;)
Report pistachio November 4, 2009 9:59 PM GMT
The feeling of guilt is reduced when you dont pay income tax
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