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When you analyse it objectively, England to me have to be the unluckiest footballing nation in tournament history.
We've had plenty of teams in the past that were good enough to win tournaments but were knocked out too many times by either penalties, by 1 single goal, a controversial goal and a the flukiest goal in World Cup history.
From the 90's onwards in particular
1986 World Cup - Maradonna cheating, foul in the build up to the second goal, lost by 1 goal
1990 World Cup -Knocked out on penalties
1996 Euros - Knocked out on Penalties
1998 World Cup - Knocked out on Penalties
2002 World Cup - Lost 1-2 to Brazil - Ronaldinho's flukiest goal of all time which he tries to claim he meant.
2004 Euros- Knocked out on Penalties
2006 World Cup- Knocked out on Penalties
2010 World Cup - Battered, but if VAR had been around and that Lampard goal would have stood, game could have been different
2012 Euros - Knocked out on Penalties
2016 Euro's - lost by 1 goal
2018 World Cup - lost by 1 goal.
2020 Euros - Knocked out on Penalties
2022 World Cup - lost by 1 goal, Kane missing a pen.
2024 Euros - lost by 1 goal
2026 World Cup - lost by 1 goal.
We've played 17 tournaments since 1990, in nearly half of them we've been KO'd on penalties, 7 times. And KO'd 6 times by a single, goal. Has any other country lost on penalties anywhere near that amount of times since 1990? doubt it. 13 times knockout out on pens or by 1 single goal.
In other words, that can't go on forever, England's history is skewed, squeeze through a couple of those pen shootouts at least and history would look very different. Top nations in the past have had to rely on a lot of luck to see us off, pens, cheating, flukey goals etc.
For the sake of balance, we were cack in Euro 1992 and 2000 plus World Cup 2014, dumped out of groups.
Personally think that Euro 96, 2004 and 2024 team were good enough to win, so were the 1998, 2002 and 2006 World Cup sides in particular, but all mostly knocked out on pens. These top sides couldn't beat us in 120 minutes, stalemate.
Euro 2028 at home, good chance England start faves with this team, home advantage and history bound to finally relent and give us something at last.
Kind Regards.
We've had plenty of teams in the past that were good enough to win tournaments but were knocked out too many times by either penalties, by 1 single goal, a controversial goal and a the flukiest goal in World Cup history.
From the 90's onwards in particular
1986 World Cup - Maradonna cheating, foul in the build up to the second goal, lost by 1 goal
1990 World Cup -Knocked out on penalties
1996 Euros - Knocked out on Penalties
1998 World Cup - Knocked out on Penalties
2002 World Cup - Lost 1-2 to Brazil - Ronaldinho's flukiest goal of all time which he tries to claim he meant.
2004 Euros- Knocked out on Penalties
2006 World Cup- Knocked out on Penalties
2010 World Cup - Battered, but if VAR had been around and that Lampard goal would have stood, game could have been different
2012 Euros - Knocked out on Penalties
2016 Euro's - lost by 1 goal
2018 World Cup - lost by 1 goal.
2020 Euros - Knocked out on Penalties
2022 World Cup - lost by 1 goal, Kane missing a pen.
2024 Euros - lost by 1 goal
2026 World Cup - lost by 1 goal.
We've played 17 tournaments since 1990, in nearly half of them we've been KO'd on penalties, 7 times. And KO'd 6 times by a single, goal. Has any other country lost on penalties anywhere near that amount of times since 1990? doubt it. 13 times knockout out on pens or by 1 single goal.
In other words, that can't go on forever, England's history is skewed, squeeze through a couple of those pen shootouts at least and history would look very different. Top nations in the past have had to rely on a lot of luck to see us off, pens, cheating, flukey goals etc.
For the sake of balance, we were cack in Euro 1992 and 2000 plus World Cup 2014, dumped out of groups.
Personally think that Euro 96, 2004 and 2024 team were good enough to win, so were the 1998, 2002 and 2006 World Cup sides in particular, but all mostly knocked out on pens. These top sides couldn't beat us in 120 minutes, stalemate.
Euro 2028 at home, good chance England start faves with this team, home advantage and history bound to finally relent and give us something at last.
Kind Regards.
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13 times knocked out out on pens or by 1 single goal is not considered unacceptable in England. You said it yourself, it's 'unlucky' and 'can't go on forever', like your luck will come good some day. That is not the mentality of a WC winning nation. They have a killer mentality. They go out to beat teams themselves, not hope that they get a bit of luck to help them.
And it's very disingenuous to lump the Southgate/Tuchel losses in with previous losses. Croatia, Italy, Argentina regressed gradually into your own box after taking the lead and you could see the equaliser coming a mile off. Completely shát the bed. France, Kane missed a pen to take it to ET. All down to a lack of bottle, not bad luck. The Italians, Germans and Brazilians have all fallen way off it during that period too.
Things will never change until this mentality changes. Big teams are not afraid of England, England are more afraid of beating them.
And it's very disingenuous to lump the Southgate/Tuchel losses in with previous losses. Croatia, Italy, Argentina regressed gradually into your own box after taking the lead and you could see the equaliser coming a mile off. Completely shát the bed. France, Kane missed a pen to take it to ET. All down to a lack of bottle, not bad luck. The Italians, Germans and Brazilians have all fallen way off it during that period too.
Things will never change until this mentality changes. Big teams are not afraid of England, England are more afraid of beating them.
In other words, that can't go on forever
Cemetery is full of blokes with bulldog tatts who thought that.
Cemetery is full of blokes with bulldog tatts who thought that.
Each tourney is completely independent, and each team ultimately gets exactly what they deserve each and every time. Overall, nobody would dare argue that France have been much better than England in this tourney, but England deservedly finished with a medal, granted a Loser bronze one, as they beat them in the game that counted for it. And bringing up cheating or luck as England's torture is pretty laughable when their sole piece of glory came through a goal that never even crossed the line! 
Unless you're entitled or one-eyed about everything, it's not difficult to notice how fortune and misfortune ultimately evens itself out.
Unless you're entitled or one-eyed about everything, it's not difficult to notice how fortune and misfortune ultimately evens itself out.
Yeah we treated pelanties as if they were
a lottery whilst some countries became very good at the shoot outs.
The more I practice the luckier I get
Gary player
a lottery whilst some countries became very good at the shoot outs.
The more I practice the luckier I get
Gary player
DNA not relevant here, that's just something Tuchel clung onto to save his own skin. We regressed v Argentina under him, he had 18 month to ensure that type of thing didn't happen, he brought on defenders to help the other defenders passively defending, there's your message, defend some more lads FFS.
But even still, despite regressing when a goal ahead, we were still a few minutes away from a final, even Croatia 2018, lost by a goal with 10 minutes to go, who knows if luck would have fallen our way on pens then, for once.
The point here is England have been KO'd seven times on penalties, KO'd by the Hand of God and Ronaldinhos fluke goal of the century, that is nothing to do with DNA.
Can't go on forever, there's no way when you look back at some of the sides we've had that England should only have one single tournament win to their name. That is the point.
Kind Regards.
But even still, despite regressing when a goal ahead, we were still a few minutes away from a final, even Croatia 2018, lost by a goal with 10 minutes to go, who knows if luck would have fallen our way on pens then, for once.
The point here is England have been KO'd seven times on penalties, KO'd by the Hand of God and Ronaldinhos fluke goal of the century, that is nothing to do with DNA.
Can't go on forever, there's no way when you look back at some of the sides we've had that England should only have one single tournament win to their name. That is the point.
Kind Regards.
nothing to do with technique or practice, England bottled it again and again and again...
When Tuchel talks about dna I assumed he meant bottle rather than actual genetics.
How many games in these tournaments did England win by one goal or penalties ? Would you count all these as lucky wins? Do you think England have been unlucky the way the seeding and draw has worked out? I think Holland deserved a win for their efforts in 74 and 78 ,to lose twice in succession to the hosts in the final was more unlucky in my opinion.
Two best teams are in final - England not got same strength & depth as Spain or Argentina
Why do you assume Tuchel wanted to play ultra defensive? Do you think his tactics were also to not string two passes together for the last 20 mins +IT? Do you think that's what he told them at the water break?
He'd just watched them do that for 10 mins after the goal and spoke to the players. That's when he decided to go with 5 ATB and take Gordon off. There is a 0% chance that his tactics after that were to play the same way only worse and to hoof it away every time. He saw his players fail to keep the ball, saw the goal coming a mile off like everyone else and tried to do something about it, something Southgate never did. Putting ball players or attackers on wasn't going to help, the players wouldn't stop hoofing it or giving it away.
Blaming the German guy is typical of the OP mentality. It's always someone else's fault, never your own. Some external dark force must be preventing England from winning again. The same thing happened under Southgate against Croatia and Italy and people thought it was his fault and he still kept his job. Now that it's happened again under the next manager, maybe, just maybe it wasn't. Tuchel is talking about your footballing heritage when he talks about DNA and he is right. He's talking about the same list of near misses you are in the OP. He's saying it's not bad luck, it's ingrained in you to implode one way or another.
He'd just watched them do that for 10 mins after the goal and spoke to the players. That's when he decided to go with 5 ATB and take Gordon off. There is a 0% chance that his tactics after that were to play the same way only worse and to hoof it away every time. He saw his players fail to keep the ball, saw the goal coming a mile off like everyone else and tried to do something about it, something Southgate never did. Putting ball players or attackers on wasn't going to help, the players wouldn't stop hoofing it or giving it away.
Blaming the German guy is typical of the OP mentality. It's always someone else's fault, never your own. Some external dark force must be preventing England from winning again. The same thing happened under Southgate against Croatia and Italy and people thought it was his fault and he still kept his job. Now that it's happened again under the next manager, maybe, just maybe it wasn't. Tuchel is talking about your footballing heritage when he talks about DNA and he is right. He's talking about the same list of near misses you are in the OP. He's saying it's not bad luck, it's ingrained in you to implode one way or another.
All well and good but he was hired to fix it.
I think we all know it exists, with exact reasons behind it possibly not totally understood. And it may be self fulfilling.
He had a chance to fix it, or attempt to fix it, but maybe his dna didn't allow that.
He will maybe get another shot at it, euros include France and Spain, if he's lucky one of
those rather than both.
I think we all know it exists, with exact reasons behind it possibly not totally understood. And it may be self fulfilling.
He had a chance to fix it, or attempt to fix it, but maybe his dna didn't allow that.
He will maybe get another shot at it, euros include France and Spain, if he's lucky one of
those rather than both.
Why are you over complicating simplicity, stop prattling on about Tuchel, this is a general picture looking back over England's tournament history and how unlucky England have been in the past. But just on Tuchel, he had 18 months to drill it into the players what he wants and expects in pressure moments, he also made negative subs to compound the issue and moreover, nearly our who team plays under progressive continental club managers in possession based teams who are not used to sitting deep defending for their lives. This mug dismissed all that, exonerates himself of responsibility and blames phantom DNA to get himself off the hook. Give me a f break.
Anyway back to the actual topic.
Don't think any country has been knocked out as many on pens in the last 35 years as many times as England, and pretty much on every single occasion England had the team and squad to win the tournament in that year, that's why England are unlucky, then there were lots of games lost by a goal, small margins. It has to be only a matter of time before the luck turns.
Kind Regards.
Anyway back to the actual topic.
Don't think any country has been knocked out as many on pens in the last 35 years as many times as England, and pretty much on every single occasion England had the team and squad to win the tournament in that year, that's why England are unlucky, then there were lots of games lost by a goal, small margins. It has to be only a matter of time before the luck turns.
Kind Regards.
i have a recollection from euro 96 - spain had a perfectly good goal disallowed for offside then we beat them on penalties. to be fair you should also look at the times we have been lucky to get through.
one of my earliest football memories was the 78 final, i think the ref was from a country that the dutch had put out and he seemed to give all the decisions to argentina. 'they was robbed'.
one of my earliest football memories was the 78 final, i think the ref was from a country that the dutch had put out and he seemed to give all the decisions to argentina. 'they was robbed'.
That ref was Italian jolly, he also was in charge of the 76 Euro Final which the Czechs won on pens (the Panenka game).
The Dutch did indeed beat the Italians 2-1 after falling behind early on , in what was effectively the semi final (last group game of second phase).
The winner you will doubtless recall was the 35 yarder from Arie Haan, a very famous goal.
The Dutch did indeed beat the Italians 2-1 after falling behind early on , in what was effectively the semi final (last group game of second phase).
The winner you will doubtless recall was the 35 yarder from Arie Haan, a very famous goal.
Blaming ultimate failure on luck is simply pathetic. As stated, luck evens itself out. The simple fact remains England have proven to be nothing more than a side capable of competing. Defending their way to draws etc but missing the xtra quality required to move away from that posi and the pens that will always follow. This hardly equates to "should be winning". Plenty of sides are capable of competing, but only 1 of them can end successfully.
And given how difficult these tourneys are to win, the likeliest winner(objectively) frequently leaves empty handed. Then you'll have other times where expectations are exceeded. Of course this can never be seen to be the case for England, at least as far the majority of their arrogant fans&media are concerned, given entitlement levels and the fact they have themselves pegged as FAVS for every tourney.
And given how difficult these tourneys are to win, the likeliest winner(objectively) frequently leaves empty handed. Then you'll have other times where expectations are exceeded. Of course this can never be seen to be the case for England, at least as far the majority of their arrogant fans&media are concerned, given entitlement levels and the fact they have themselves pegged as FAVS for every tourney.
It does. To see it any other way means you're an idiot.
If you get knocked out it can't even out, you don't get another chance.
I do think we've invited a lot of the bad luck, if you stick all of your cash on bad bets you will be skint, not even.
I do think we've invited a lot of the bad luck, if you stick all of your cash on bad bets you will be skint, not even.
You are an idiot dblurmoney, Number 1 forum after timeer
mesmerised
England beaten by one goal in numerous World Cup exits was not unlucky.
Are you saying England were "unlucky" not to score another two goals in those games and win them?
In the World Cup 2026 knock-out stages of 31 games (32 teams with 31 losers)
17 games were won by one goal
4 games were won by penalties a.e.t.
10 games were won by 2+ goals
[9 games went to extra time, 5 won in extra time, 4 won on penalties a.e.t.]
21 games (17+4) of 31 were won by one goal or penalties, i.e. more that 2 out of 3 games are close.
Perhaps England were lucky in 2026
They luckily beat DR Congo 2-1
They luckily beat Mexico 3-2
They luckily beat Norway 2-1
They unluckily lost to Argentina 1-2
Only two teams, France and Spain, won two games in the knock-out stages by 2+ goals.
Morocco, USA, Mexico. Switzerland, Belgium, Argentina won one games by 2+ goals.
It is not news that teams lose matches by one goal.
Teams play as well as you are let play by the opposition.
"We've had plenty of teams in the past that were good enough to win tournaments"
Unfortunately the opposition though otherwise.
England beaten by one goal in numerous World Cup exits was not unlucky.
Are you saying England were "unlucky" not to score another two goals in those games and win them?
In the World Cup 2026 knock-out stages of 31 games (32 teams with 31 losers)
17 games were won by one goal
4 games were won by penalties a.e.t.
10 games were won by 2+ goals
[9 games went to extra time, 5 won in extra time, 4 won on penalties a.e.t.]
21 games (17+4) of 31 were won by one goal or penalties, i.e. more that 2 out of 3 games are close.
Perhaps England were lucky in 2026
They luckily beat DR Congo 2-1
They luckily beat Mexico 3-2
They luckily beat Norway 2-1
They unluckily lost to Argentina 1-2
Only two teams, France and Spain, won two games in the knock-out stages by 2+ goals.
Morocco, USA, Mexico. Switzerland, Belgium, Argentina won one games by 2+ goals.
It is not news that teams lose matches by one goal.
Teams play as well as you are let play by the opposition.
"We've had plenty of teams in the past that were good enough to win tournaments"
Unfortunately the opposition though otherwise.
I've got one thing to say about this thread, Argentina should have been allowed to bring on another player for free after Basher got himself sent off
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