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Bobo Glimt vs Spurs - 2.2 a gift
Bobo Glimt vs Spurs - 2.2 a gift
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Arsenal pelanty overturned at Newcastle for goalie getting
a touch. They are getting there but still loads of debates over var. |
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So Pedro's banned for the Ajax game? they've literally got no strikers left apart from George and he look average.
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Livarpool should have brought the rat on.
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Wrong yet again mes, Dixie scored his record 60 goals in 1927/28.
The first Tesco store opened in 1931 in Edgeware  |
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Guiu can play for Chelsea.
Injuries mounting after cwc... |
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oh forgive for I have sinned, it was the 1930's Tesco shop workers he was banging in hat tricks against every instead, well that makes a HUGE difference
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Interesting stats on Fred Dixie thanks, the matches I seen him for Brazil he wasn't very good, neither was Hulk, but maybe they just had off days, it was small sample.
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mes, Dixie had scored over 200 goals before Tesco opened their first small store, please try harder
 Malay, yes Fred was obviously a better player than those who just judge him on the 2014 World Cup (like mes) would think. at least he did score at that tournament, more than Hulk did |
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I see hulk is still playing at a very high level aged 39.
Not sure why anybody would question he was a decent player. Obviously doesn't stand comparison to Messi and ronaldo but still a very good striker. |
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I would not dispute he has been a decent striker YHTL, but if we agree on that then Fred must have been too as the stats don't lie.
Hulk may well have been a better player to watch but internationally at least Fred was a better goal scorer. |
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Expectations are high of a Brazilian centre forwards, perhaps
unrealistcally so at times, especially for those of us that grew up watching pele, and each new striker is hyped to fever pitch and will never hit them heights, it's simply not possible. Measuring each striker on actual ability is hard as we don't have full view of them like we do epl strikers. So judgements are made on what we see and how we feel about their game. For me Hulk is/was a class above Fred but others will not agree and nobody can be sure as there are no sliding doors to see how one compares against the other if roles are swapped. Richarlison looked to be decent, but maybe isn't a 9,and suffers in comparison for that very comparison, as likely did Fred and hulk and so many other wanabee peles. |
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Undoubtedly with information you provided Dixie, Fred had a brilliant career, it's maybe just a case Brazil have had so many outstanding players over the years, the bar is high to get his achievements fully recognised from afar.
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We've danced this dance before Dixie and you still believe even given the context of 20's/30's football in which was a largely amateur era due to the fact that so many players at the top level then could not dedicate their lives to the game and had to have real jobs, training maybe once a week, that Dean should be up there in the pantheon of great strikers due to statistics, and in particular, a one off great season in which he filled his boots against Postman, milkman, cinema ushers, sheep shearers and future Tesco workers
You stand alone my friend, very alone, in the pouring down rain under dark thundery skies with only your faint shadow for company thanks to the dimming light that the nearby Victorian Lamppost affords you, with football connoisseurs such as myself catching sight of your sunken silhouette through the smeary windows in the warmth of our own homes, looking on with a tinch of sympathy, but a heavy dose of condescending righteousness Kind Regards |
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Congratulations on winning the first prize in the "football was only invented in 1992" competition mes
As ever i have to point out that you can only play against your contemporaries, please pay attention. There have been many great goal scorers in English top flight football history, but only ONE has scored 60 league goals in a season. His name was William Ralph Dean aka Dixie. A name immortalised in the record books of our national game. He played against the best defenders of the time, the same as modern day strikers do. Indeed defenders back then were allowed to dish out a lot more to attackers than they can get away with these days. And no other player has even managed to get 50 in an English top flight season. The record has remained for nearly a century and will likely NEVER be beaten, if it was so easy to score goals back in the day then why could nobody else get near Dixie's tally ? And to disprove your "one off wonder" slur, Dixie scored 44 in the 1931/32 season, which sits THIRD on the all time list for our top flight. Dixie's name is etched in footballing stone for eternity. |
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We know all this, you've told us all before about the statistical genius, you must be a distance relative to be so passionate about someone you've never seen live, or maybe because Everton historically do not really have any historically great forwards in the game, not at world level anyway. The football then is probably on a par with non league football today, how could it not be, the professionalism, athleticism, skill level, evolution and advancements of coaching abilities, sports science, recovery techniques etc, you wouldn't herald a striker from non league as a true great with because he has a great record at that level would you.
A great forward of his time in a largely amateur era, but would never be mentioned in the list of great strikers in most people's minds given the context. Also told you before that Maradonna is the greatest player ever and his best years were pre 92. Kind Regards.  |
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their brazilian by birth, lots of these brazilians are whipped off to europe before theyve ever kicked a ball on copobaccana beach
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You should be bigging up the 1930’s Mesmerised after all that was when Arsenal dominated.
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Talking out of your arris again mes, you have no regard for footballing history do you lad ? If you play against the best opponents in any era and set records then you are a true great but you seem unable to understand such a basic maxim. You seem to be suggesting that top players of the past could not have adapted to the modern game which frankly is a bizarre take as they would be privy to all of the latter day benefits that you mention.
FYI Everton have probably had more renowned forwards than most other English clubs, Edgar Chadwick, Dixie, Tommy Lawton, Alex Young, Joe Royle, Bob Latchford, Graeme Sharp etc etc. Dixie also holds another record - the most goals for one club in the top flight - 310. I think the real reason you are crabbing Dixie's achievements is that when he set his record in 27/28, he needed to score a hat trick on the last day to reach 60 for the season - luckily he was up against Arsenal |
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Captain - yes i agree mes should big up Arsenal in the 30s, if dixie was the great goal scorer then Herbert Chapman was the great innovator, first with Huddersfield and then Arsenal. One of the greatest managers our game has ever seen.
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You are trying to over complicate a simple point, which is when nobody other die hard Everton fans is going to hold up players from that era as one the true greats, yes it's all relative, but it's like in tennis, nobody takes records and statistics from the Pre Open-era seriously either. It's pure guess work to suggest that player then could adapt now, whether they could or couldn't is by the by, nobody knows, so we can only take those that have been apart of the truly professional era that's encompassed all the modern advancements that have evolved over time, as players who are apart of the conversation of 'true greats'.
It was probably the late 50's/early 1960's onwards where football became much more professional, particularly the 60's+ first £100 week player in Johnny Haynes, abolition of the maximum wage rule, the ending of severe transfer restrictions (Retain and transfer system), greater TV and media exposure thanks to broadcasters and highlights programs which led to a sharp increase of personal endorsements deals, that's where today's modern commercialisation of the game really has it's roots. European football began during this time and that also help to make the game more professional as player at the very top began to compete with the best on the continent and not just England. It's a case of sod's law for your hero who didn't get the chance to prove however good he may have been in today's game which is as athletic, skillful and professional as the game could ever possible be, fined tuned to the max, we've reached the limits of what an elite player looks like and is like. Putting players from a bygone era such as the 20's where training was probably once a week on a cow's patch of a training pitch, the goal keeper was an overweight bus conductor smoking 20 Benson & Hedges a day and the defenders he was running past were straight in the pub after the game, doesn't really cut it does it. Kind Regards. |
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and the defenders he was running past were straight in the pub before* the game, doesn't really cut it does it.
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Aristotle suffers similar comparisons
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mes has convinced me everyone* in the past was short, fat, and stupid.
*with the exception of a north London club, of course. |
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That's just a dumb post kincsem, nobody mentioned a players height or intellect, the working class jobs that were mentioned where because that's the occupations most players back then actually had, they have to have real jobs, football for a lot of them was a side thing they fitted in around what they did for a living to put food on the table. There was no modern day welfare state back then as safety net, they worked, or they died. Kind Regards.
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dumb post?
you said "so we can only take those that have been a part of the truly professional era" perhaps modern players would be ineffective with a heavy wet leather ball, muddy pitches, and 11 against 11 (no substitutes), unlike the present 16 against 16. |
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No doubt they would, in the same way modern tennis player would struggle with wooden tennis racquets, but what has that got to to with the price of cheese? This is about truly great players, players from 100 years ago through no fault of their own can't be in that conversation as in every which way it was largely an amateur era for all the aforementioned reasons laid bare in previous posts. Kind Regards.
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Is your proof payment to players makes them better than players who are/were not paid?
In the last few days I finished reading "The greatest game ever played". An amateur golfer beat two top professional players in the 1913 US Open. One of the players he beat won the (British) Open a record six times (still a record). Perhaps sprinters now cover the 100 metres in a faster time, but shoe technology and synthetic tracks help (and "supplements"). Bob Hayes ran 10.0 in the 100m final in the 1964 Olympic Games on a chopped up lane one of a cinder track (the inner lane used by the 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m runners). The way you state things you would think human DNA has improved massivly in the last few decades. |
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100 years ago a bloke could just about run 100m in 10.4 seconds
Probably 12 seconds from 1 end of pitch to other, when sober. It's still competitive though as opponents had same fitness disadvantage to modern day. Doubtless if dixie was a genius of a player word of mouth would pass it down, same as golfers of that era, and cricketers are. When I was at school dixie was a stat alongside bon accord therefore my feeling is that he wasn't a genius, but obviously must have been very good, and very resilient. Might have been sold when they got relegated, but no need back then, just crack on in division 2. Of course being so resilient he would likely have been able to withstand modern training, so it's possible he could have improved even more than his contemporaries and attained genius status under modern conditions. |
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Is your proof payment to players makes them better than players who are/were not paid?
Being paid more meant football was starting to become their one and only job, where they could train more and put their full focus into the sport. It's highly unlikely top sprinters today can win medals cheating and get away with it, that doesn't stop them trying though. Bolt was the only one that often lined up in Olympic finals that had never tested positive for drugs or missed a drugs test, 40+ odd years ago it was much easier to evade the drugs testers, which is why there's been talk for many years from the IAAF about scraping World records held back then or any one in on the list. Kind Regaards. |
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I will try again.
You might have noticed that the England manager has only a choice of about 70 English players from the Premier League. For a World Cup a few years back I did the analysis. The England manager had to pick a 23 man squad from about 70 players. There are 22 teams of 11, or 242 players in the Premier League. What has happened is Rupert Murdock bought the television rights to football for big money. The Premier League clubs got a share of the new money. The Premier League pay more money for higher placings in their league. To attain higher placings in the league (and more money) the clubs bought better players from Argentina, Brazil, France, Italy, Spain, Germany. The local players probably did not get better, the choice was bigger (worldwide) and the lesser English players were replaced by better foreign players. You might know this as at one time Arsenal was largely a French club. I looked at the current Arsenal Wiki page. Their 12 player squad are from ESP; FRA; ESP; ENG; ECU; BRA; ENG; NOR; BRA; ENG; BRA; NED - three English players in the twelve or 25% English. If players are better it is (my opinion) due to selecting from the world instead of selecting from England. It is a replacement of players with better players, not players improving. This imagined improvement in players is only selecting better players from outside to replace the lesser players in England. The idea of greatly improved humans is flawed logic. The famous Italian horse breeder and trainer Federico Tesio (speaking in the 1940s) ridiculed the idea of great improvement in modern horses over previous generations. He commented that if genetic improvement could be so easily attained all he would have to do to make giraffes out of horses would be to hang the hay nets high above the horses and their necks would stretch. Your comment about everyone being on drugs 40+ year ago except Usain Bolt is anothr unsubstantiated statement. |
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Your comment about everyone being on drugs 40+ year ago except Usain Bolt is anothr unsubstantiated statement.
Will you learn to read ffs, where did I say EVERYONE WAS ON DRUGS 40+ year ago ? Along with insinuating I said everyone was short or dumb earlier that played football in the 20's when I said no such thing. Along with your dumb post about how I simply thought players were better just because they paid, completely oblivious to the obvious thought process that the abolition of the maximum wage cap would allow for players to become more professional by only having one job to concentrate on football. Stop putting words into mouth or better still learn to read and digest posts properly before banging away at the keyboard you mug. Kind Regards. |
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"we've reached the limits of what an elite player looks like and is like " says mes.
Firstly, how can you possibly know that ? Secondly, if that is true then evolution seems to have let us down looking at a lot of the "elite" players on show each week kincsem - good analysis, interesting stuff. |
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YHTL - Dixie could have moved following that relegation but he loved the club too much and knew that they would likely go straight back up.
Of course they did, with him scoring 39 goals. The next season they won the first division again (just the 44 goals for Dixie  and the next year the FA cup. |
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Yeah, it's not happening today, sadly
Good on him for staying, but finances are huge today. |
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It's like trying to explain the ABC's to children, and you children keep me busy schooling you
Of course we've reached the limits of what an elite player looks like and is like. Elite players play at the elite level, and at the current elite level, they could not possible be any fitter or any better prepared for a football match, their wholes lives revolve around it, back in the 20's it was more like a hobby, it wasn't a guaranteed living where you dedicated your life to training, eating well, sleeping well and doing absolutely everything you could to win a football match. Why is this so difficult for people to understand, that a player from 100 years ago should not be in the conversation as one of the true greats of the game, as said earlier, you'd probably have to start as a bare minimum from the late 50's/early 60's onwards for all the aforementioned reasons given in previous posts as when true professionalism began to kick in. Whether Dixie Dean could have played in the much more advanced and complete era of football that is today is whole other topic for conversation, and only hypothetical conclusions could ever be drawn, but it's by the by in regard to this debate, the true greats of the game, and statistics from 20's don't quite cut it. Kind Regards. |
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hypothetical ? Like claiming we have reached the limits of what an elite player looks like and is like you mean
A scientist you ain't son. |
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So exactly how much fitter and better prepared could a modern day Pro actually be then Dixie with all the millions spent on state of the art training centres and facilities, highly trained coaching staff who spent years attaining qualifications, all the possible medical tests they could do to make sure the player is as fit as possible and as healthy as possible at all times...........you tell me......Son
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To dip in to your vernacular, we are still evolving you MUG
Ergo, we most probably have not reached the limits of what a human can or will achieve physically. |
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So the foremost evolutionary geneticists of the age are mistaken, as an anonymous hampton wick on a betting forum knows better
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You try to use stats from the 1920's to claim a player is one of the greatest and now because you've had your lard arse served to up on a silver platter over that debate, you've deliberately decided to be as pedantic and as obtuse as possible by prattling on about evolution and what a player might look like in thousands of years time
For the record you absolute mug, humans have been steadily getting taller and taller over time especially in industrialised countries and as modern football proves, there's is an optimum height for a footballer that can dribble with the ball well in today's game, which is why you don't see many great 6ft plus players dribbling like a Hazard or a Messi or a Maradonna, all smaller players with lower centres of gravity that helps with stability when running at pace, as humans get much taller on average they'd be even worser footballers in that sense. You rarely even get 6ft6 plus defenders because any taller than that and they too are useless as movement becomes a problem. So we have reached the limits of what an elite players looks like - especially considering how finely honed and tuned they are thanks to be given all the modern benefits that nutrition, training and recovery techniques could possible give them. Keep digging down Dixie, you'll be in Australia soon. Kind Regards. |