Match of the Day-Spurs vs Pool 5.30

at least they looked at it though, in the Arsenal Brentford game last season they didn't even bother

I don't buy that explanation either. Something's gone on and they're trying to cover it up. We need to hear the chat between the officials. And VAR needs removing. Neville has highlighted a few things have been odd in recent weeks and I'd imagine Monday Night will pretty much be dedicated to VAR. There will be very little confidence in VAR next weekend and it needs turning off for a couple of weeks while they try to figure out the mess.

Sep 30, 2023 -- 8:44PM, scandanavian_haven wrote:

at least they looked at it though, in the Arsenal Brentford game last season they didn't even bother

Who looked at it though? 'VAR did not intervene'. The VAR bloke must have popped outside for a cig break and so they just went with the linesman error

It was a big game tonight, and yet again everyone's not talking about what a good game it was. The main topic is the usual ****.

It was brillant
as the OP thought

Why did the lino raise his flag ? They don't raise their flags when they're 10 yards off nowadays ?

Someone had a word in his shell-like

Unbelievable scenes. Spurs have had some rotten decisions against them in recent games against Liverpool so great to finally beat them. .

loui • September 30, 2023 9:04 PM BST
It was a big game tonight, and yet again everyone's not talking about what a good game it was. The main topic is the usual ****

agreed its killing the game

sofaking • September 30, 2023 9:16 PM BST
Unbelievable scenes. Spurs have had some rotten decisions against them in recent games against Liverpool so great to finally beat them. Excited.
do you mean like the two footed challenge by Kane on Robertson

Sep 30, 2023 -- 9:18PM, rothko wrote:

sofaking • September 30, 2023 9:16 PM BSTUnbelievable scenes. Spurs have had some rotten decisions against them in recent games against Liverpool so great to finally beat them. Excited.do you mean like the two footed challenge by Kane on Robertson

No.

which ones then?

Spurs not a top four team. Luck will run out soon. Another embarrassing day for VAR.

Not a Liverpool fan but did have a bet on them tonight. Really disappointed that have lost money due to appalling officiating! Hopefully the ref and VAR official won’t be back for a considerable period. It’s just not good enough!

Seems to be a lot liverpool backers on this fred.

VAR is great, sadly run by the same people that make the same mistakes on the pitch.

VAR great for what??

if they cant get offsides right whats the point of it

So var thought a goal had been awarded

And checked he was onside

Said check over as it was obvious.



A communication error is being blamed.


Bumgling flecking idiots, probably checking their coupon.

People are missing what probably happened here, Neville immediately grabbed the wrong end of the stick and was pushing the theory that the lines were probably in the wrong place, but there was no lines!!!, the wording was that VAR failed to intervene, I think this means that they never even looked at it for some reason.

This is a sh1t show and there will be a cover up, no way will they let it be known that for some reason the officials were not at their posts or whatever it was at the time the incident happened.

I'd like to see the camera footage from within the VAR room the moment the incident occurred.

Sep 30, 2023 -- 10:15PM, Storm Alert wrote:

Spurs not a top four team. Luck will run out soon. Another embarrassing day for VAR.

I detect a hint of concern from Arse supporters.

Personally, I’ll get over it

Straight red was correct though

Great finish for the winner-top corner.

Eight bookings for Liverpool
Dirty scousers get em hauled in

i no due to pitch level,lighting,fans in different stands etc its different from tv viewers,but if rightly or wrongly VAR is always going to have the final say in a goal,even when their wrong,wouldnt it better if clubs were told to mow the pitches in a different way and we wouldnt all be amateur VAR reffs at home using the lines on the pitch as VAR,s line,remember one club mowed nice circles 

The issue was a failure on the part of the VAR and assistant VAR, not a failure of the tech. This is clearly referred to in the statement from PGMOL - when they say 'human error' they are not referring to the onfield officials, who also made a human error, they are referring to the VAR and his assistant. Something incompetent or dodgy went on in Stockley Park. That was clear from the fact there were no lines shown and the speed at which they said 'check complete'. They didn't do a review at all.

There's 3 people in Stockley Park. We knew within seconds of the goal that the linesman had his flag up. Are we really expected to believe that we all saw that but they didn't and all 3 missed it and thought he gave the goal. Are we really buying that?

That's the story emerging this morning, that the VARs thought a goal had been given and did a quick check which showed clear onside and said 'check complete'. That would certainly tally with the speed of the decision and the failure to show the lines later on. Morons.

The Saudis are reportedly offering European Refs £150k to switch to their Premier League. They could get ours for £25.

Howard Webb is in charge. He clearly has either not produced procedures for VAR to follow and/or hasn't trained the VAR officials properly. The whole thing is a farce.

Webb has to go.

as weve sometimes waited 5 mins + for dcecisons when game is stopped, and during play checks have took place for over a minute,other than saving face  as no one scored was sewnt off ,why they couldnt put it right even after the  game had restarted

Yep. The most clear cut decision will often take over a minute as they check different angles to ensure they get it right. Not remotely buying the notion that they just looked at the screen for a second and replied "yep, that's fine". Just didn't happen and they're covering the reality up.

Oct 1, 2023 -- 10:00AM, lurka wrote:

That's the story emerging this morning, that the VARs thought a goal had been given and did a quick check which showed clear onside and said 'check complete'. That would certainly tally with the speed of the decision and the failure to show the lines later on. Morons.

So when they saw the ref award a free kick for offside, why didn't they have a word in his ear like they do for other incidents?

VAR often ask the ref to re-look at incidents long after they've happened.

Someone's telling porkies here methinks.

Why is the offside tool not like hawkeye in tennis. Someone just presses a button and a computer looks at all the camera angles and produces a graphic?

What happens now if Liverpool lost the title by 1 goal goal difference?

We've had enough apologies from Howard Webb. There needs to be harsh financial consequences for all involved.

issue was a failure on the part of the VAR and assistant VAR, not a failure of the tech. This is clearly referred to in the statement from PGMOL - when they say 'human error' they are not referring to the onfield officials, who also made a human error, they are referring to the VAR and his assistant. Something incompetent or dodgy went on in Stockley Park. That was clear from the fact there were no lines shown and the speed at which they said 'check complete'. They didn't do a review at all.



This was cleared up,... After they released their first statement.

Why take 2 goes to clear up their error

Didn't want ridicule on motd so clear it up properly
after that is filmed?

Refs always being control freaks... That's where
the problem starts in the first place.

So it's just a procedural error, that's OK then

No clear message they have implemented better
procedures from today nor that this communication
error hasn't occurred previously...

SirNorbertClarke
What happens now if Liverpool lost the title by 1 goal goal difference?

Exactly the same as if it had happened to any other Prem team, that is to say that the other 19 would say tough on you but because it didn't affect my team I don't care enough to do anything about it.

Changes whole game.

If Taa had been sent off v Newcastle non of this
happens

Funny old world, innit.

Darren England and Dan Cook - the two VARs who made Liverpool offside mistake - had travelled to UAE to be officials in match there only 48 hours before Spurs game.
PGMOL review must look at issue of possible fatigue.


Money talks

Seems to me you could do VAR from any dark room with a T1 pipe

corruption... is the only explanation....there is no rationale for what happened yesterday. Human error is bollocks ...they had time to rectify an obvious wrong decision but they didn't

as yhtl says money talks

Could probably leave a carrier bag full of cash in any
dark room too.

King Charles might confirm that.

2 days after travelling to home of Liverpool's biggest rivals
we get the biggest cock up in VAR history and its
Liverpool on receiving end of a string of marginal
decisions.

Oct 1, 2023 -- 12:14PM, Wesdag wrote:

Oct 1, 2023 -- 10:00AM, lurka wrote:That's the story emerging this morning, that the VARs thought a goal had been given and did a quick check which showed clear onside and said 'check complete'. That would certainly tally with the speed of the decision and the failure to show the lines later on. Morons.So when they saw the ref award a free kick for offside, why didn't they have a word in his ear like they do for other incidents? VAR often ask the ref to re-look at incidents long after they've happened.Someone's telling porkies here methinks.

I don't think they ever ask a ref to look once the game has stopped and resumed. They let the game go on and once the ball goes out of play they don't let him restart until the review is complete. Here, the game had restarted before they'd realised the mistake. They should have acted quickly but maybe panicked and let it go or didn't realise until a while after. Doesn't look like they were watching the match tho. Either that or something dodgy going on. This version of events isn't official yet, it came from the media this morning.

We need a Mike Dean type statement here - (which won't happen). I think it was touched on MOTD - Shearer said why didn't they get back on the mic if the story is true? "hang on, we thought it was a goal, we cocked up".  They had the evidence - it wasn't subjective - we all saw it. There would be some head-shaking but most folks would say, well at least they got it right.

Neville criticised Klpop for saying an apology was of no use - it is of no use - They need to tell us what happened.  I work in healthcare - the absolute worse thing you can do is cover things up or not flag things up - but for some folks fear of consequences kicks in.

About time we got some decisions against the 'mighty' reds

Jota should have also been sent off in last seasons game at Anfield for head-high studs-up challenge which cut Skipps head

and don't get me started on the Champions League final penalty

Superb finish by Matip for the winner, top bins

Correct

Possibility spuds might go top next week.

in their righful place looking down at all the dogsh1te

Oct 1, 2023 -- 4:37PM, johnnythebull wrote:

in their righful place looking down at all the dogsh1te

Damn right, Johnny.

So what happened was...

VAR guy sees the Salah to Diaz pass, doesn't need any technology to know it's onside

When the ball hits the net he goes straight to another monitor to get 'the lines', but is no longer looking at the live game, so is unaware of the offside flag.

Sends 'check over' to confirm the goal is good. Ref takes 'check over' as confirmation that offside was the right call.

VAR guy goes back to the game and is horrified to see the game has resumed at 0-0.

VAR too embarrassed to make 'the line' public.

yes that about sums it up Tobe

That's pretty much it tobermory
Except are we to believe they don't communicate and ask questions.

If they don't then was the process repeated today for the
penalty that wasn't given, oh yes, that's an obvious penalty, check over,
I think he scores the pen I'm on at 5/2 pen scored, oh f*ck the ref missed it now I've agreed with him...

That's pretty much it tobermory
Except are we to believe they don't communicate and ask questions.

If they don't then was the process repeated today for the
penalty that wasn't given, oh yes, that's an obvious penalty, check over,
I think he scores the pen I'm on at 5/2 pen scored, oh f*ck the ref missed it now I've agreed with him...

The above would make sense if there was only one person in the VAR room doing it all but there are 3 or 4 sets of eyes on the game.

Why when they go to get the lines isn't the ref told to STOP PLAY

Why is he sending check over call when there was no check.

It's all BS and they are trying to find the least bad excuse.

I reckon the VAR post was left unattended save for perhaps a junior who was left on their own and couldn't deal with it.

Var was busy in the rugby today. Irish lady is
excellent, and communicates with onfield team.

And we see it live... Might not agree all the time
But with explanation of what they see its far better.

Liverpool Football Club acknowledges PGMOL’s admission of their failures last night. It is clear that the correct application of the laws of the game did not occur, resulting in sporting integrity being undermined.

We fully accept the pressures that match officials work under but these pressures are supposed to be alleviated, not exacerbated, by the existence and implementation of VAR.

It is therefore unsatisfactory that sufficient time was not afforded to allow the correct decision to be made and that there was no subsequent intervention.

That such failings have already been categorised as “significant human error” is also unacceptable. Any and all outcomes should be established only by the review and with full transparency.

This is vital for the reliability of future decision-making as it applies to all clubs with learnings being used to make improvements to processes in order to ensure this kind of situation cannot occur again.

In the meantime, we will explore the range of options available, given the clear need for escalation and resolution

Seems Pool are really showing
SOUR GRAPES
with their latest statement
The result
STAND
gET OVER IT

Stench of corruption hangs over this till we hear the audio. Remember that all onfield officials are miked up so the lino will have said offside on raising his flag. It seems incredibly dubious that the VAR team don't also hear these conversations. So they hear the lino call offside, they have access to a telly showing the flag up and we're supposed to believe they think the goal's been given. Do us a favour.

Are we gonna replay the manu vs wolves
howler as well?

Same ref, innit?

In rugby and the women's world Cup, they actually include the fans in the decision,the them why. which is crucial in moving forward. At the moment it's still in black and white telly mode, and var is in John Logie bird land

Corruption?

99 times out of 100 it's cockup & coincidence rather than conspiracy.

They were quick enough to produce the audio and video for the Van Dijk red card the other week. Where's this one?

This smacks more of gross incompetence/communication breakdown rather than conspiracy.

The official explanation given is that the VAR boys thought that the goal had been given so went back to playing cards/watching porn or having a nap to recover from their arduous flight back from the UAE the previous day. What is strange is that if they were seeing the same pictures that were shown on MOTD, the offside flag was up within a couple of seconds of the ball going into the net. It’s some error. I can see that as a supporter, if it goes against your club, you’re not going to be a happy bunny.

Am I correct in assuming that rugby has video officials in the stadium? That would seem to be a step forward as they may actually then be more connected to what’s going on, rather than watching it from a bunker somewhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deLoFn3iV0g

These guys on ESPN put Neville and Sky Sports to shame. 100% spot on.

We need the audio to hear exactly what happened. It's like a culture of fear in an organisation where folks are too scared and don't stand up. "oh it's too late, the free kick has been taken...", nonsense. The VAR room was like a Panic room, they fight / flight freeze - they froze, worst thing they could have done. Not up to it.

VAR room wasn't like a panic it was too blazé

Didn't bother talking with onfield guys so huge error.

I am sure I am not the only older bod on here who knew, 100% KNEW, VAR would prove to be a mess (check my posts from years ago).

The younger generations in particular just cannot accept that errors do happen and that does, sometimes, lead to injustice. That is a sad fact in all walks of life.

Hence, football should have never gone down the VAR route and, instead , continued with the referee's decision being final. Yes, mistakes used to be made but it seems to me VAR is even worse!

The other thing football should have done is to forbid SKY from the endless replays of controversial moments in each game because, through allowing it, we now have ALL of football's refereeing levels (on field through to VAR) brought into scorn.

I believe that if replays of contentious decisions were banned and the game was just allowed to flow on with the on-field officials having the last, and only, word, fans would soon start to enjoy the sport more. This constant arguing and debating is devaluing the whole game no end.

And, to end, please no bleating about 'there is so much money involved for things to be wrong'. Tosh. Anyone investing money in a football club needs to grow up and accept their investment is high-reward but also high-risk. If they don't want the risk, then invest in the much lower but totally safe goverment ivestment bonds!

I really don't get people giving out about VAR here. The incorrect decision was made by humans followed by a F up by more humans. VAR used correctly would have got the decision correct. 99% of moans about decisions are aimed at VAR but are actually about the rules, which are interpreted correctly using VAR nearly all the time. Look at all the threads on here about VAR and you will see this. There are far less wrong decisions post-VAR. It's not perfect but it gets the calls right a lot more often than humans judging in real time and it didn't get the call wrong in this case.

VAR is still in developmental stage and will hopefully be largely automated and faster in the near future. I wouldn't have a problem if it was binned but you'd be getting less delays and chalked off goals in return for more incorrect calls.

The problem I have is that it was sold to us as only to be used for really obvious mistakes like Henry's hand ball etc. Nobody was told it would be used for every goal or that clear offsides would be allowed to run to see if they score etc. I suspect it will eventually be used to bring more sponsorship money into the game either by being sponsored itself or in ensuring so many stoppages that the game will eventually be split eg into quarters with more ad breaks for tv cos.

Yeah, of course but getting the offside wrong was big.

Of course machines don't make the error, but it's still
VAR as we know it.

We still don't know what the linesman said..

Did he flag and say we better check that?

Or did he flag and say offside, but we better check?

We don't know, and it's a bit unfair that we don't know.
as its led to a catastrophic error.


I watched the rugby and saw and heard var working
and how they made the decision,.. We might not
agree with the decisions but we understand what
has happened.

We are left with a sour taste that the onfield decision
was not corrected, at a crucial stage of the game.

Again the linesmans words are important as if he only
said we better check that then maybe he would
have given attecker the benefit had var not been available.



It's also notable the wissa penalty has been declared an error


So the team that went to UAE have been involved
in 2 bad errors in 2 separate games within a few
days of their travel.

We deserve better.

Gotta agree... VAR should never be wrong unless it's a super-tight decision and if that is the case, give it to the attacking team, regardless.

var,s been going for 5 yrs,the tech they use 20/30 yrs its not high tech
3 or 4 people in roon presumably all watching different screens and for a period of time they didnt no the score in the weekends biggest game,
i,ll have a tenner on someone had slipped out for a wazz

The offside tool looks like a poor 6th form college project.

Look at how slick tennis' Hawkeye is.

lurka 02 Oct 23 13:38 
I really don't get people giving out about VAR here. The incorrect decision was made by humans followed by a F up by more humans.

We get it, the point is that you're never going to get "a human" to be able to be given the tech and make it work....we've got enough body of evidence to see that now.

It's very simple, VAR was supposed to reduce mistakes and controversy, if it is doing the exact opposite then by definition it is a worse set up than we had before.

I want Liverpool to push this as far as possible, we can't let this go cold, let's get the audio and see any CCTV footage from within the the VAR room too. This is the moment where it can be pushed to change the rules where we get to hear what's going on like they do in Rugby.

IMHO, it says an awful lot that they are as reluctant as they are to give us the audio.  Mike Dean's interview a few weeks back might go some way towards explaining the reluctance.

Private Ltd Company running VAR, run by former Ref Howard Reb. Same two officials had been doing a game in Middle East for same ltd company.

All about money, would like to know how much this lot charge for their services. Will not be going anywhere economy, thats for sure.

Must be milking the PL for a fortune. Probably a good time to get some more bodies in and squeeze a bit more out.

Pool fined £25k by the fa for their indiscpline in the match
Pool lead with the most red cards for the season with 3
1 ahead of Forest

Dirty side

Of course mistakes should not happen when they have a clear image in front of them but when people start calling for VAR to be abolished, I just smile. They got at least one off side decision wrong in every game when they relied on a linesman! Another future role for technology is forward passes in Rugby. I reckon the officials miss at least 2 per game on average but we don't get calls for matches to be replayed as a result.

Looks like they ballsed up on the Jones sending off too!


Regs state that they must judge it at full speed, not slo-mo. They decided to go ultra-slo-mo and present the ref with a still image making it look as bad as possible. Liverpool now appealing based on incorrect application of the pics.


We've either had the most inept VAR performance ever or the most obvious corruption ever.

VAR is not 'doing the opposite', it has massively reduced the number of errors. 90%+ of the time people complain about a decision it is the rules they have a problem with but they blame VAR. Are you forgetting that the goal would have been disallowed if there was no VAR? Along with a load of others over the years?

you can have a forward pass in rugby if a players motion gets him in front afterv ball is passed, impossible for var to judge

Money is the root of all evil

It was meant to be a Spurs win anyway they could get it

So blatant but will be forgotten when the next one comes along...

Var is correcting lots of errors, but if they push that line it's bad
for onfield officials who are cream of England's officals.. And
those those at lower levels clearly not as good.

They can get it better.




2 howlers this week.

Forward pass is judged by hands going backwards for pass
from the passer,... Momentum often sees ball travel forwards
but that's not a forward pass if the passer makes a backwards
motion with hands/arms.

There shouldn't be any howlers. Get that right and VAR will crack it. As I said earlier, tight decisions you can reason with, but outright wrong decisions should never happen and hopefully, one day, that will be the case. Thankfully not this one

Indeed. And ha ha.

Missed this one tonite

https://twitter.com/omid9/status/1708944831509156239?s=19

..

Sundays goal wouldn’t have been disallowed without VAR because the game would’ve been stopped long before the goal went in.

thanks ythl
i new  it had some confusing rule regards forward passes in rugby

All QUIET
Seems the black box reveals
Hissing
Over taped!!!

Finally
complete confusion
Ollie said
DELAY

Jones appeal turned down
3 match suspension
QUITE RITE

Quite right indeed. Liverpool need to sort out their disciplinary issues if they're to any hope of finishing in the top four. Klapp need to put an end to it right now.

Klopp talking
Bolox
as usual

The Premier League's Independent Key Match Incidents Panel has ruled Diogo Jota should not have been sent off in Liverpool's controversial 2-1 defeat at Tottenham Hotspur on Saturday, ESPN can reveal.

Jota was shown the red card after two challenges in little more than a minute, both on Spurs defender Destiny Udogie.

ESPN has seen the assessments of the panel for week seven, detailing that the second tackle on Udogie in the 69th minute was not worthy of a yellow card from referee Simon Hooper.

The report stated that "the majority deemed the decision as incorrect as they felt it did not meet the threshold for a yellow card," with the five members voting 3-2 against a booking.

The panel has five members, made up of three former players and/coaches, plus one representative each from the Premier League and PGMOL.

At the time, few observers questioned the merits of Jota's second caution, which left the Reds with nine men for the rest of the game. It was the first booking, when Udogie's trailing leg had clipped the Portuguese forward's knee, that seemed more worthy of reassessment. However, the panel does not make judgements on the first yellow card if a player is dismissed for two bookable offences.

Liverpool manager Jurgen Klopp was furious with both red cards, as well as the goal Luis Díaz saw wrongly ruled out for offside.

Curtis Jones was dismissed via a video review in the 24th minute for a challenge on Yves Bissouma, but the panel supported that intervention by the VAR, Darren England. Klopp has confirmed that Liverpool lost an appeal to the Football Association to get Jones' three-game suspension quashed, though he was unable to make a protest against Jota's one-match ban for two cautions.

On Wednesday, Klopp told a news conference that be believed the game should be replayed after PGMOL, the refereeing body, admitted "standards fell short of expectations" on the Diaz incident, whose goal was disallowed because of an error by the VAR with the score at 0-0 in the 34th minute.

According to the panel, it was the worst weekend for referees this season with four missed VAR interventions -- more than the rest of the season combined.

It was ruled that Aston Villa's second and third goals in their 6-1 home win over Brighton & Hove Albion should have been ruled out. Villa led 1-0 when Nicolò Zaniolo was in the line of vision of Brighton goalkeeper Jason Steele on Ollie Watkins' shot, with the panel split 3-2 in favour of the goal being disallowed.

Minutes later, Brighton's Solly March was brought down by Douglas Luiz in the lead up to Pervis Estupiñán's own goal. However, while the panel judged it to be a foul by Luiz, voting 4-1 for a VAR intervention, there was no reference to the relevance of the attacking phase, which would have been the key consideration in an overturn for the VAR, Stuart Attwell.

It was also stated that Villa defender Ezri Konsa should have been shown a second yellow card in the 71st minute, when the score was 4-1. Brighton midfielder Ansu Fati was booked after an altercation with Konsa, who had been booked in the 57th minute, and the panel felt both players should have been cautioned.

The panel also unanimously felt that Brentford were denied a clear penalty at Nottingham Forest when goalkeeper Matt Turner kicked through on Brentford forward Yoane Wissa. The game finished 1-1.

All other key match incidents for games played between Saturday and Tuesday were ruled to be correct by the panel.


Well done boys, good process.

the brentford pen claim didnt get much coverage because of the omnishambles at Spurs but it was one of the most blatant pens you will see

God knows how Howard Webb has managed to last nearly a whole week without having to face any scrutiny

Var can't intervene in yellow cards.

Unless to upgrade, even if it leads to a red via second yellow.



Refs do make mistakes, but that's why we have var,
that is, to help correct clear errors, and for
offside, ball out of play, foul in/out of box, to be absolutely correct.

Clearly var has been slip shod and slap dash

Heaven only knows how many other errors occurred
because they couldn't be bothered to communicate.

Hopefully another stable door closed after the clipperty
clopp hoss has bolted.

Yes im suprised he is still in the job given the the refereeing performances from week 1

He is supposed to be driving up standards yet they have regressed

Webb was threatening to resign, I think
fergie has calmed him down.

Brentford pen, not pen I stuck on thread other day..



Missed this one tonite

https://twitter.com/omid9/status/1708944831509156239?s=19

..

Jota's 2nd yellow was one of the most obvious you'll see. That panel must be on the same substances as the VAR room were on.

They are trolling klopp, innit.

What a load of crap. Jota fully deserved his two yellows. Time for everyone to move on from this kerfuffle.

Curtis Jones has had his 3 game ban for violent play confirmed.