MANCHESTER UNITED

Nah,  hes the best young talent weve produced in quiet a while,

More likely Barcelona tapped him up.

Ive seen a bit of him and hes quiet slight so a less physcical league like spain getting a few minutes at the end of 4-0 leads would be ok.

Couldnt be putting him in the PL ,  theyd break him up.

I was trying to be funny.

Can't blame the lad. United are a shambles.

I thought that was quite witty Nobby, Ineos and the Glazers are probably wandering what all the fuss is about, let the bidding war begin as he's all profit!!!

Not much profit for club if he walks away.

Seems to be happening quite a lot with these young lads
as clubs look to future profits.

Agents will be well rewarded for engineering free transfer.

15 yo jj Gabriel refusing to train and looking to have his contract terminated over lack of playing time in first team.

LOL lets be honest the game is f**ked if you even now have 15 year olds chucking it and refusing to play.

IMHO there needs to be rules brought in around this type of behaviour.

He can go per regulation for less than
£500k

Not exactly earth shattering MUNIE
Ratcliffe will be appaled

Especially if he realizes the potential he has been showing, there will be plenty laughing at us in years to come, it rivals Pogba going for free before buying him back for gazillions.

They should try to tie him down just so they can get a fee for him at a later stage. Worth throwing a few quid at it even if he doesn't deserve it. But the father is a big red flag and will only cause more problems in the future. He's acting like he's already Messi level at 15.

Dowman at Arsenal is 6 ft and 161 lbs, quite big for a 15/16yo, Gabriel is 5'9 and 131 lbs (estimated), that's too light for the first team and he prob still has a bit of growing to do.

When you buy SH I T
You get Manure

A lot of our players have little mannerisms or tells,  like Maguire pulling up one leg of his shorts at corners tricky situations or doing his little skip as he's running back into position after we've conceded or Dalot following through with his foot after the simplest of little passes etc but with Carrick it's the eyes.
A blank cold stare after we've conceded or lost all control,  stare , no emotion, no tweak no instruction just blank stare.

So so depressing.

We were schooled for 80 mins there, 
Out moved ,  out passed , Out fought, Out thought even.

Brighton played out effortlessly and the few occasions they  were in trouble they went long and won every second ball off our clearance.


Standards really need to be set and Darlow won't feature much anyway , Heaven is young and needs a while out but Dalot needs to be made an example of.
Show what can happen if standards drop continually.

He should be finished here really and a line put in the sand for going forward.

Shorter more relaxed training sessions my arse.

Dalot's last game should have been the one where a player jogged past him last season and he put his hand up to say yeah my bad!!

As someone said recently, if you've got him making 250 appearances for United it tells you all you need to know about the state of the club.

Agree with the Carrick thing, he looks scared to death....who knew!!

Our defence is a shambles whatever combination we play.

We need to sign a 'Steve Bruce' type player. Someone who'd put his face where others would fear to put their boot.

How much did Yoro cost?

I'd have thought Maguire was about as close to a modern day Bruce as anyone..

re JJ Gabriel, not a thing the club can do if he doesn't want to stay, he has about a year left on contract...

Utd have done everything right by the kid according to all available credible sources.

He's 15 and not that physically developed so he was never going to get much game time yet ( as referenced above by others he was due to play against Brighton). If Barca or Madrid are interested it's only ending one way these days (and though less clear cut, may well be the case even if Utd were stronger than they are)..

Utd have been poaching players to the academy the same way...

Ratcliffe 'must go' says Man Utd Muslim fan group

Why bother with an academy?

Why not just poach players when they are old enough to sign a proffesional contract and put them in the under 21s?

If your academy recruitment is good it generates money for the club, City have produced plenty of talent and therefore revenue from theirs, Chelsea certainly used to...Utd's was neglected for the best part of 2 decades but is now probably back somewhere close to what it used to be if still behind City..

The class of 92 was the academy working.

OK, unlikely anybody cops for an output like that again, but it sells a dream.

Problem....

Premier league is ultra physical,... Spain
offers a nice life and sanitised football.

I don't blame this kid for wanting to join Barca or Real Madrid.

United are a complete shambles.

a couple of slightly outdated articles but show the worth for big (rich) teams to get the academy working well..

https://onefootball.com/fr/news/the-442million-man-city-have-made-from-selling-academy-graduates-under-pep-guardiola-38136475



https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/40029184/chelsea-300-million-cobham-academy-sales-trevoh-chalobah/

brentford, that's all well and good but don't forget the owners can't even stop the roof from leaking.

Indeed, the majority owners that you've often defended..whilst criticising the minority owners who've actually tried to rectify a few things such as the academy (though I'd concede that small steps were happening on that front already - certainly with little input from the Glazers)..

I've defended the Glazers when they have been criticize for taking money out of the club.

They turbo charged commercial income and provided 100s of millions for  transfers and wages.

They aren't football experts and have been let down by the 'experts' they employed.

They employed someone to do that (Mainly Ed Woodward who helped devise the most destructive takeover of a top club)...

they didn't invest in players at Utd's high point, that was mainly reactionary,  they neglected the academy, they didn't install a modern football structure regarding recruitment and transfers, they didn't even fix the roof..

they did take massive sums out of the club that for what was virtually a zero debt club until their involvement...

SAF praised the Glazers for always providing the money for transfers.

and was on very nice retainer (probably rightly) until ineos got involved, possibly for his compliance or service...as the Glazers don't know a lot about the club's history, I'll take a guess at which..

Given recent transfers I'd take SAF's advice before the current regime's

Maybe so but he wasn't given that input when on the retainer...and the biggest transfer catastrophes are all pre Ineos...

They aren't football experts and have been let down by the 'experts' they employed.

Ed Woodward wasn't a football expert even by pub standards and they were or should have been aware of that...

no credible football structure was installed until Ineos and no attention was given to anything other than bottom line revenues which Woodward was able to temporarily exploit on the back of Utd success in a different era..

Employing the wrong people is on the employer.

Woodward was a businessman.


When SAF left why would you put a whole new football structure in place when you had won umpteen titles?

because football was changing, or you could even have trusted him and what was a slightly outdated model to heavily invest in players at a position of strength..

I've said it before but SAF's last  title was his most impressive, that side should not have won the PL...

Employing the wrong people is on the employer.

True, though I agree with Sir Norb that the Glazers financial scheme for United worked perfectly well. There has always been more than enough money to assemble a Top 3 in the world squad

A couple of times while United were getting a hiding from City or Liverpool, Sky put a caption on screen showing the City/Liverpool side on the pitch cost, say, £630M, and Uniteds was £710M.

they didn't invest in players at Utd's high point

Who could they have bought in 2008-11 that they didn't realistically? It was right then that Man City were spending limitless amounts on fees and wages (no FPP until 2012) and a player was only going to prefer United if they had a sentimental preference for them (as Berbatov and Van Persie reportedly did). City could always offer more even if there was no Glazer debts.

Also the team being so strong would have been a deterrence to some players; eg a top centre half would likely have to wait years for Rio and Vidic to make way.

After Fergie left it seems United's managers or whoever was making the calls just chose the wrong players, not cheaper ones than their rivals.

After Fergie left it seems United's managers or whoever was making the calls just chose the wrong players, not cheaper ones than their rivals

that's already major miss the point stuff...Utd didn't spend massive sums on absolute elite when they'd won the CL and lost a final, City weren't spending silly money in 08 either..far from it..

sadly I can't rescout 2008-2013 which would be more crucial end date btw..

Managers don't take full responsibility (far from it) in the last 20 years...many seem not to get this..that's why there should be a sporting structure in modern terms....DOF working closely with CEO, Manager and scouting dept..

Ronaldo's sale offset 3 seasons spending for a CL winner and following season finalist ffs...

and every season the ownership that oversaw the s***show take another between 25-50m out of the club in interest payments..whilst taking no responsibility for how the club is run..

and took share holding dividends for failure until relatively recently..

I just had a glance at the premier league transfers of 2011-13 and they were mostly rather weak 'draft classes', perhaps why  English clubs did so poorly in the CL between 2012-18.

Aguero and Eden Hazard were standouts, but as said City would outbid anyone at that time and Chelsea were outcompeting United for players before the Glazers showed up. Van Persie and Fellaini were 2 of the bigger money fees.

When you have a great team as United did late 2000s it's hard to avoid decline as you are hardly looking to replace players when they are in their prime , you are only really going for back ups or young prospects. So that makes signing elite difficult in itself. Because what elite player wants to sit on the bench?

I remember that period being debated some years later, on Redcafe I think it was, with the anti Glazers saying it was a no brainer to sign Arjen Robben in 2009, but Glazer debt interest stopped it.

That was pure retconning as no United fans were calling for Robben in Summer '09. Neither Chelsea or Real Madrid were bothered that he'd left them and it was a big surprise that he suddenly became the 3rd best in the world at Bayern.

If you're in a tough to attain European elite window you shouldn't have a negative spend over the key years...Utd did...

The decline started during fergirs latter years.

It's also true Citeh and Chelsea cheated to
fund their purchases.

But Liverpool built a team under Klopp, and
Arteta has managed at Arsenal, that are really very good.

So it is possible.

Why do people give the Glazers credit for growing revenues when every single top club's revenues went up massively in the same period? They sucked a billion out and presided over another billion being spent on dross while clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal bridged the gap by spending well and being successful on the pitch.

If United were successful on the pitch their revenues would be a lot bigger and they could have done it by spending half what they did. Ferguson papered over the cracks in his latter years. United are now like a club with the global fanbase of Villa/Everton due to horrific money management and the debt saddled upon them but with a massive global fanbase, still.

Fergies

absolutely true but managers get a lot of credit at the expense of recruitment at times..

game has changed and Utd were way behind until Ineos got involved - Ratcliffe not at all likeable or probably even interested in anything bar a profit on share turnaround long term but for their faults (lot of pushback on ticket prices and season ticket attendance revoking) at least they are visible and trying to do stuff unlike the majority clowns half of which allegedly want out anyway..

Why do people give the Glazers credit for growing revenues when every single top club's revenues went up massively in the same period?

Even if you doubt the extent that their operation raised club revenues, they had the vision to see that both United and the league were undervalued, and that rising revenues would pay their loan interest and still leave more than enough for transfer fees and wages.

I've said it before but SAF's last  title was his most impressive, that side should not have won the PL..

I do agree with this. It was the squad Moyes took to 7th.

SAF understood that his defence was creaking and the midfield was lacking in technique/athleticism, so they couldn't control games. But they had great finishers, which meant end to end games with the likes of Reading, Newcastle they could win just by scoring more in 4-3. Moyes was too defensive minded to want an end to end game with anyone so the team did not play to it's strength.

Why do people give the Glazers credit for growing revenues when every single top club's revenues went up massively in the same period?

No one's commercial revenues went up like United's.

United had much bigger commercial revenues and global fanbase than nearly every other club going back decades, nothing special about theirs growing massively at a time when everyone else's did too with so much new money coming into the game in that period.

lurka you can have the last post.

Carrick, defended the performance.
“I didn’t think we were [passive],” he argued. “Did you think we were? Football is a difficult game. We controlled a lot of the first half. It’s the Premier League and you will have spells where you don’t have it all your own way. To expect total dominance for the whole game, I don’t think anyone gets that in this league.”
Carrick claimed that United had done “more than enough” to win the game against Fulham, who started the game bottom of the table and are yet to win in the Premier League.

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Out of Possession stats for this season (sky sports)

Distance at high intensity (km) rank 20th
Time at high intensity (mins) 49.6 rank 20th
Sprints 243 rank 20th
Time Sprinting (mins) 9.2 rank 20th
% time walking out of possession 51.1% rank 17th

Distance covered yesterday was 110.2 km v 116.7km for Fulham...in abstract if you look at other games it's low but not freakishly so but against the backdrop of the other stats it gives a fairly obvious idea of what is badly wrong currently...

On the eye test yesterday - you would rarely see a less energetic, committed performance...if that's the best Carrick can get out of a team that needed to show some reaction then he'll be very lucky to make Novemember - though it's also a pretty shocking indictment of the players themselves...

Agreed.

From dale Gibson, bbc



Between 17 January and the end of the season, United picked up more points than any other team - 39 points from 17 games.

Yet only four teams ran less than United, and only two clubs had fewer sprints.

There is no material difference in the running stats, but United were returning 2.29 points per game compared to the 0.8 this season.

Something is clearly different, but it does not appear to be linked to this particular stat because barely anything has changed - apart from the results. Maybe this United squad simply does not have runners.

Then there is the comparison to rival teams.

Manchester City have won all five Premier League matches, but have covered less distance than United. Enzo Maresca's squad have also recorded the lowest number of sprints in the division.

Brighton, one of the most exciting teams in the league this season and the top goalscorers, are one place above United for sprints.

Maybe United's problem is tactical rather than a simple case of not running enough?

........


Dale doesn't seem to consider other teams may have been more tired in that spell, whereas with less effort expended man utd had more left in tank for run in.

No one answer I'm sure, but you'd like to see teams leaving nothing on the pitch the way the game is played, and refereed, these days.

As always with Manchester United, everything is sensationalised and nothing is run of the mill. Stats get pulled out of nowhere to emphasise the latest 'crisis', even Mr Neville on commentary with his 'worst 15 minutes I've ever seen' comment add fuel to the fire.

Don't recall any viable options when Carrick was appointed - I personally would have said 'thanks for getting us in the top 4 but goodbye' if there was an outstanding candidate or 2 out there - but there wasn't. Is there right now either?

Maybe the general lack of spending in the summer was a case of not over committing to Carrick if someone of high calibre does become available. We'll all never know what was talked about when he was offered the job on a 2 year deal.

Maybe we should just move to the Watford model, never employ anyone for more than a season and get rid as soon as someone doesn't win in 3 matches - seems like it would please some, although maybe even those terms are too long.

United have the most touches in opposition box (182) and least opposition touches in their box (92) after 5 games. Last season they had 9 points more than expected based on chances created/conceded, this year they have 3 points less than expected after 5 games.

in regard to yhtl - it's not just about raw stats though, Utd looked and played liked a committed team in most of the games under Carrick last season, I and many others opined the results outperformed the performances and so there was likely to be some regression unless the summer transfer window was transformational - obvs we have to wait and see what Baleba does when fully fit and established as his profile feels a great fit for what Utd could do with but doubts over his true level after last season remain..

If you are going to run less than most you need to have a sense of control in the games through quality of possession and also have enough end product or simply sit in and play on the counter which isn't going to work for sides with top 4 aspirations - least of all away at Fulham......as I said on this thread there were hints of it (control) at Everton and you could argue when 11v11 ...they were doing pretty ok against City..

I'm probably along with you don the least trigger happy on managerial change that posts reguarly but what I saw yesterday was very concerning and we all know in this age you simply aren't getting long if performances aren't up to scatch...not to mention out of any mythical title race after 5 games..

Yeah Brentford, I don't really have that much of an opinion,on current work rate, and can only go off what others say and thats just a bit of balance.

One other thing that was notable is that Carrick and his staff seemed to be the only people that felt it was going ok from a Utd point of view...no changes to the starting line up until 77 mins (Zirkzee) and Dorgu and Mount not introduced until 80' both of whom should surely have been out their before that moment..

Don't get me wrong, Carrick could have made some better decisions in games so far this season. The game management and subs v City were poor and yesterday was just drifting in the 2nd half until Fulham scored. We also all know the results last season flattered us in terms of 1 game a week and the low general standard towards the Champions League places.

I do feel (as you mentioned) that Carrick is trying to move us towards a more possession heavy, more considered and technically improved team - counter attacks alone isn't good enough. He's also reliant on the attacking players producing and, apart from one half v Ipswich, they (and particularly Bruno by his high standards) haven't.

Carrick should never have been appointed, the right approach is to appoint a manager that at least ticks some of the boxes relating to experience with one of the bigger European clubs and preferably with some success, if it doesn't work you keep trying to do the right approach until you get it right, you don't decide to do something completely bonkers because the right approach isn't working.

If there isn't a standout then there would still be any number of candidates more qualified than Carrick.

Of course as far as the board were concerned he ticked the most important box, the one entitled, most likely to give us the least push back.

Keith Andrews, Kieran McKenna

Andrews and Hurzeler are mightily impressive but I would be afraid that, although they have very good clear ideas and charisma for that matter, especially Andrews on that score, there would be a big risk that they may end up another Franck and United just can't afford to take that risk, Mckenna is definitely in the Carrick category for me, it would have to be someone like Poch or Conte for me.

Andrews and Hurzeler are a perfect fit for their squads and vice versa and a lot of the recruitment is already done for them. Clubs like United and Spurs are the polar opposite of Brentford/Brighton in terms of top down organisation and squad building. No surprise to see Frank and de Zerbi struggle at Spurs.

Andrews doesn't play the type of football that United want, Hurzeler does but you can't even say with any certainty whether either of them is good at squad building or identifying talent.

The likes of Hurzeler and Andrews are doing terrific jobs at their clubs, but the circumstances and expectations are totally different at those clubs. They are this seasons 'De Zerbi, Eddie Howe, Graham Potter, Scott Parker, Nuno, Thomas Frank etc etc'
No manager in the Premier League has scaled up successfully to a big club, the closest being Brendan Rogers and..... Mr Pochettino.

Pochettino always gets a mention on here in times of turbulence and to be honest I'm not sure what qualifies him to be regarded as a higher level candidate. Underwhelming at both PSG and Chelsea after being sacked at Spurs. He wouldn't have been available in any case in the summer, being committed to a home World Cup with the USA. Conte at least has a good record of winning trophy but how he finished with both Chelsea and Spurs has probably dissuaded other English clubs from going there.

United need a manager with a vision who can rebuild the squad. It is that bad.

Carrick is a wet lettuce.

I suppose they could sack Carrick and then appoint Michael Carrick on an interim basis until the end of the season, I wouldn't rule it out

A new low today.

2.4 from GOLDBRIDGE

Tielemans is a statue and remember Santos, who we were all told was so good and always passed the ball forward in pre season, well, Chelsea got their own back on the Garnacho signing by palming him off on us alright.

I suppose if the board knew that Sesko was a serious crock they might have addressed the centre forward position during the Summer, oh wait, they did know that

Mainoo doesn't run, Bruno is no longer a factor, Cunha is not a 9, the defence are shaky as f00k and the manager is a wet lettuce.

That'll about cover it.

A 3 or 4-1 defeat would have been a fair reflection. Holding on for a win would have been the biggest footballing crime in Manchester since...... you get the picture.

Fortunately for Carrick he has a raft of irrefutable evidence proving that he's doing a very good job.

Mainoo been one of the few to impress this season -

looks physically stronger, playing more progressive passes and taking the ball forward himself at times and appears to be getting a bit better on the defensive the side but he's never going to be an athlete....as has been said numerous times by many people, you need a more athletic player alongside him for the balance of the side to be right...Tielemans should currently be his understudy or rotation option...hopefully Baleba can make some difference in there...looked ok yesterday though a huge amount to prove and way too much on him to make the difference..

Bruno being a bit out of sorts has really exposed some of the others this season..and especially in the first 30 mins again the testimonial energy levels are criminal...you have to be a very good side to play with that lack of energy and they certainly aren't...

Football teams are built in their manager's image.

If Carrick worked for me I'd give him 15 minutes to go and bollock the entire squad.

Fergie might have employed Carrick as a coach.

Give him 15 minutes fag break and
bollock the players himself.

Man U look so slow and this season is painful Carrick nice bloke just cannot spout same rhetoric and why wasn't Shaw sent off?

Martinez giving the club's hierarchy both barrels.

He's only saying what the fans think.

Yep, good to hear, as soon as Clarke realized what was likely to go down he put as many words into his mouth as possible, but Martinez was up for it.

It's about time Martinez did something good this season.

Didn't seem very authentic..

a bloke that virtually never does media interviews comes out with that when his contract renewal negotiations aren't advancing as he'd like and now setting himself up for a transfer in January or the summer..

a bit rich to be criticising the quality of the squad as well when he's been both often injured and highly inconsistent since he arrived...if Utd had a spare 300m knocking about he almost certainly wouldn't be playing...

Self interested and pre planned agenda more likely than anything..

It needed saying.

Agreed brentford, but I don't care whether it's sincere or not, it has the same impact either way.

Didn't see the first half, 2nd half looked pretty even. At least Carrick adjusted his team - we have been terrible against back 3/5 teams in his reign, including at home to Leeds last season. Probably contributed to a scrappy, stodgy game but better than being wide open as previous. You could almost say it was 'Amorim like'.

Worst running stats this week end apart from
SUNDERLAND-who had only 10 players
LAZY

It's not Carrick, it's the players.

Oct 18, 2026 -- 10:21PM, SirNorbertClarke wrote:

It's not Carrick, it's the players.

I agree.
So many managers have come and gone.

I think the biggest problem in the dressing room is Bruno.

When he's on fire he wins games but he more often than not he spends more matches moaning at the referee and feigning minor injuries.

The game against Leeds was a classic example.

The bad news is he's currently in contract negotiations

It's not Carrick it's the players, but if the tea lady was in charge (if she was still employed) it wouldn't be her fault either but it wouldn't mean that she was qualified to do the join the first place,

Bruno has simply buckled under the weight of carrying the team practically single handed for the past umpteen years.

job

Club captains under Fergie

Bryan Robson    1986–1994
Steve Bruce    1992–1996
Eric Cantona    1996–1997
Roy Keane    1997–2005
Gary Neville    2005–2011
Nemanja Vidić   2011-2015

Bruno has a minor injury and is being played out of position...but yes his antics can be annoying... (hoping censors deem that to be acceptable)

It's a strange quirk that the two players that have carried the team through the last 10-12 years, firstly De Gea and then Bruno, for all their efforts have, still consistently found themselves heavily criticised by some sections through-out that time.

De Gea would make 10 great saves but the moment he didn't come for a cross he would be in trouble, and for all what Bruno has done, a couple of arm waves in frustration at the rest of the shower and he gets it.

Purely for context and not a direct retort..

I only ever criticised De Gea in his last couple of seasons when he was bang average (I lived with his early troubles in the context of a young Spanish keeper in the PL).. and he was world class for 3--4 years unquestionably...

Bruno I've virtually never criticised and whilst the time may be nigh if an offer comes in - Utd would probably have been relegated without him not to mention never hitting the heights of 2nd and 3rd..as they have during his time here...  (subject to censor removal)...

I was speaking generally

no I know..(as I say not a direct retort) ...the Fernandes stuff annoys me (annoying though he is at times) ..

the De Gea blindspot of some of the fanbase and lack of context with him turning down very good money before he was released as well..also annoys me...though in the rearview window clearly they could have paid him double what he wanted for 2 years and it would have been better than Onana....Lammens, not so much...

I never thought I'd say it but I am starting to think that trying to wrestle Emery away from Villa wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, he appears to be able to thrive in chaos, take his players away and he deals with it, he might even be able to do something with Tielemans

The club captain should always set the tone of the squad. Should always be a warrior.

Bruno - the team is built around him as a number 10 with limited tracking back responsibilities. His output over the years has justified that, but whenever in a dry run the negatives will be amplified.

Has been shown if you play him in a different role to balance the team (wide, deeper or even as a false 9) he's not the same player. At some stage a decision will have to be made about replacing him, but I'd rather that be done as a restructure of the team rather than a like for like replacement.

Carrick thinks the performance against Leeds felt like a "fresh start"

Managers typically begin to display delusional behaviour when they approach the event horizon.

EtH unloading on the club today.