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14 Jul 18 19:07
Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 55,133 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
How it used to be Love

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Report PorcupineorPineapple October 18, 2021 9:17 AM BST
For me, signing Ronaldo has provided goals but exacerbated other problems. How many goals he'd get than Cavani or Greenwood is debatable though.

But going into the season Utd had some issues to solve:
The centre of defence is slow and likes to drop back, creating a big gap to the midfield and giving those players more area to cover
Pogba is Pogba. Great going forward, but tactically clueless and a liability defensively
Utd's tactics are just woeful. There's just no sign of any plan or work on the training field. Other teams work as one, where players support each other and can clearly be seen to be following planned moves.

Those problems still exist and now Ronnie is making them much more apparent. Rather than Cavani (or Rashford) coming back into midfield, he's just strolling about. The midfielders have got about 60 yards to cover and being pulled even further away from the defenders. Meanwhile, he has to play Ronnie, has to play Bruno, has to play Greenwood (he deserves it to be fair), and has to play Sancho. Therefore, the only room for Pogba is in the midfield two. Bad enough when you've got McTom in there, but when it's Fred or Matic then it's just too much for them.

Don't normally like getting bullish about these fixtures, but Utd right now look the absolute perfect opponents for Liverpool. Always a chance a bit of individual skill might create something but you've got a very organised team against a mess, and there looks like being only one winner.
Report rommel October 18, 2021 9:58 AM BST
i'll never get bullish about playing utd,black is white up is down
Report olddesperado October 18, 2021 10:27 AM BST
Yep good piece Pop.

While we had all these problems long before Ronaldo I said at the time we signed him he would make it worse but in the first game or two he actually got about a bit and surprised me.

But it was just new team excitement perhaps as the effort seems to have dried up.

Last year we played our best football when cavani was in the team.
He gave us a focal point and energy non of the rest had but it rubbed off on some of them at times .

Now the Ronaldo non movement has rubbed off too and many are just swanniing around.
Even Greenwood for all his scoring prowess is not a right winger and contributes little other than his goals.

So like Pogba,  like sancho, he has to be accommodated somewhere,   it's just not in any of their best positions.

Solskaer gets a lot of accolades for his transfer dealings but it's as scattergun as the previous regimes.

We're top heavy with wingers and forwards , no midfield and overpriced somewhat lacking defenders and two highly paid keepers that both have major flaws.

He hands out contracts to players he has no use for and let's others run down and lose for nothing.

440 million spent on top of the 550 spent by the previous managers and I doubt his successor will inherit a better squad than the one he took over.
Report elise October 18, 2021 10:53 AM BST
historically they've had two managers in the last 60 years that have been a success, the rest have won feck all by comparison, they are stumbling around in the dark trying to find the third one and ole and his ilk are about the best they can attract
Report 11kv October 18, 2021 5:43 PM BST
Different era,ask Pogba to defend and chase back he will tell you to pizz off .

Where as when Alex said it you did it or that was that.

Too much player power within teams they do what they want, all multi millionaires even the players that don't play week in week out.

Most are full of sh@t and still collect massive Sky funded wages.
Report duffy October 18, 2021 6:22 PM BST
Ronaldo's signing was never ever going to be a positive for the playing side of the operation.

What it was, was a rather crude act by the owners to "pay off" those causing the unrest and with crowds back in stadiums, they'd have been very concerned at the optics from the sponsors point of view.

The sight of a Glazer sitting comfortable in his seat so soon again told you that the hoodwinking had worked.

We're now seeing the negative side on the pitch, I metaphorically called Ronaldo the manager and was laughed at, but his influence that could be of course a positive one in a successful side is also a far worse negative one in a dysfunctional side and that's what we are seeing, Ole just can't cope with that, to be fair to Ole I don't think that he'd have had Ronaldo anywhere near the place if he had anything to do with his arrival which of course he did not. However if you take the job and promise to do as you're told then you've got to take this type of thing on the chin.

Greenwood scores in the first 3 games at centre forward and then goes 6 games without scoring whilst out wide.

Sancho shifted out of position as a knock on from greenwood making way for Ronaldo.

You could probably attribute Bruno's penalty miss to Ronaldo's presence as he waited in the wings like the Grim Reaper if you liked.Grin
Report elise October 18, 2021 6:32 PM BST
i didnt think ronaldo was any good the first time round, wasn't until he went to a bigger club he progressed
Report rommel October 18, 2021 6:36 PM BST
duff as ever on the ball,CR'S BEHAVIOUR AT THE PENALTY WAS PATHETC,wrecked brunos head,cost utd a point/points
Report olddesperado October 18, 2021 10:55 PM BST
"Maybe we need more legs"  " we need to win more 50 / 50s "
"Maybe something has to give"

He doesn't have the foggiest does he.
Report rommel October 19, 2021 7:45 PM BST
olly has talked fkn drivel from day one at OT.......“We’ve progressed over the years since I was [first here for] half a season. Sixth, third, second. You can see the progress, development and improvement. This season we still want to improve. We’ve signed players that have raised expectations. Other teams have signed players and improved as well so we’re in the same boat as all the top teams.”
Report brentford October 19, 2021 7:58 PM BST
seeing the  City display in Brugge, the gulf in so many elements is off the chart... work rate, patterns of play, selflessness expected of players, high energy without the ball,

Liverpool though not quite matching City in quality for me also have those traits...United light years away currently..
Report rothko October 20, 2021 8:58 PM BST
steve bruce is available - ex player, united legend, experienced so fits the bill perfectly
Report rommel October 21, 2021 1:01 AM BST
RIO tonight,weve gotta take the positives out of that game,Scholesy much more sensible
Report Callisto-moon October 21, 2021 7:02 PM BST
what a bag of soggy poop united are.

keep up the good work, really cheers my day to see such a divvy bunch.
Report olddesperado October 24, 2021 12:27 AM BST
My you tube directed me to a few mo salah vidioes.

Not for probably 20 odd years have I been as impressed by a football  person.

He's a brilliant footballer but a more important nicer individual.
His charity work and just ordinarily dealings with the fans is exceptional.

I read today he wants to stay at Liverpool for life .

It's not something any of our players or rotten agents have come out with but is a blast from the past.

We deserve whatever we get tomorrow for the character of players we signed.
Report olddesperado October 24, 2021 12:40 AM BST
I was reading today that solskaer is untouchable on account of the support he still retains from the fans.
Well then the fans need to wake up and join the real world.

Cheering for an incompetent manager is absolutely ridiculous.
We are man utd we don't doubt the manager. Ffs grow up.

Support the manager or support the club you can't really do both when one is not delivering.

In many ways our vocal support is our own worst enemy.

Get a cop on would be my advice to them.
Report olddesperado October 24, 2021 12:49 AM BST
Ole , the manager who doesn't coach.
Mike phelan the assistant coach who doesn't coach.
Both given new contracts.

A new set piece coach that's made us even worse.

No one steps inside the technical area because they don't have a clue.

We discuss and deliberate for 20 mins before making a sub.

Absolute amateurs the lot of them.
Report rommel October 24, 2021 1:39 AM BST

Oct 23, 2021 -- 6:27PM, olddesperado wrote:

My you tube directed me to a few mo salah vidioes. Not for probably 20 odd years have I been as impressed by a football

Report rommel October 24, 2021 1:39 AM BST
v gracious od,hope we get a good game
Report olddesperado October 24, 2021 8:09 AM BST
I was just really moved by his off field activities rommel.
He just seems a genuinely lovely person.

In an age where wages , toxic agents, hair do,s and Instagram followers seem to be the currency of success a private  genuinely nice person is so rare.
Report rommel October 24, 2021 10:35 AM BST
v well said od,some of the players really do know how lucky they are,i  believe sadio mane funds a lot of stuff back home....anyway a bug bear of mine is the changing heads of most of the players...and a new twist,was a beard on motd i do believe tonsoried(?)to within an inch of its life
Report Charlton2005 October 24, 2021 5:12 PM BST
mean reversion. no one can stop it.
Report Charlton2005 October 24, 2021 5:14 PM BST

peckerdunne17 Oct 21 10:44Joined: 26 Apr 12 | Topic/replies: 39,294 | Blogger: peckerdunne's blog
United need to go and get Conte, and quick, he'll get them organized sharpish.

If he brought in John Terry too I wouldn't object.

I said a month ago Ronnie will be a problem because teams can play out around him, one pass and behind the midfield.

He also takes away the press, the energy, the identity.

Can start in some games but mostly an impact sub for me.

Maguire was a severe waste of money too.

They need a mean centre half who bosses.

They need a proper holding player type, a nasty one who has energy and character.

They are out there, hungry for success.

I like this lad at Chelsea btw Chalobah.

I like watching Brentford too, you can find a player or two of you know what to look for.

Sorry Ole, not nasty enough too soft.

nonsense. if they got fergie it would be different. everyone else is just mean reverting.
Report duffy October 24, 2021 5:48 PM BST
Think his luck has finally run out, you can be beat by Liverpool but not humiliated.

Good luck trying to promote the "steady progress under Ole" narrative after this!!!
Report duffy October 24, 2021 5:56 PM BST
I've been a critic of Ole from the very start but I have to say that looking at him now stood on that touchline at what is now the end for him, is that on a human level I feel sorry for him.
Report 11kv October 24, 2021 6:04 PM BST
Aye way out of his depth with no real help...
Report elise October 24, 2021 6:38 PM BST
if he's got any b@lls he'll walk
Report Racingqueen October 24, 2021 6:42 PM BST
Pogba and Shaw should never start a game again for Utd.

Rashford and McTominey need dropping as well.
Report the_don October 24, 2021 6:47 PM BST
Can't see how he carries on after this, though stranger things have happened. Not just from this game but going back a fair spell. Some shocking errors by individuals but organisation and ideas have been missing for ages.
Report elise October 24, 2021 6:52 PM BST
the only reason he could be allowed to stay is that the man they want isn't available now, if the best on the list is conte etc, then they'll probably go another 2 years without a trophy , this next appointment needs to be the right man to get this team back on track they are miles behind the top 3 in the prem
Report rommel October 24, 2021 7:03 PM BST
doesnt matter if theyve got someone lined up,arm round Ole,"Ole we love you,thanks for all you've done we need to move on"
Report Emitdeb October 24, 2021 7:04 PM BST
This group of players is almost the equivalent of a dream team, with the right direction win something very soon... imo.
Report rommel October 24, 2021 7:05 PM BST
theres nothing positive about Ole being there
Report bobweenit October 24, 2021 7:07 PM BST
Report 11kv October 24, 2021 7:08 PM BST
He aint going anywhere,who is there in world football available ???
Report rommel October 24, 2021 7:12 PM BST
Oles presser is sad,Go Ole please,its cruel to not sack him(not taking the mick or anyhting)
Report 11kv October 24, 2021 7:12 PM BST
Looked pretty cut up
Report bobweenit October 24, 2021 7:13 PM BST
No quit in him,  wants to be sacked and get his contract paid out
Report themightymac October 24, 2021 7:24 PM BST
Agree, he can`t afjord to resign.
That **** on sky. Ow won’t say bad word about Man U
Cos there he’s mates

Too many Man U Liverpool ****s on our tv screens giving us there **** opinions
Report elise October 24, 2021 7:44 PM BST
11kv, agree not sure who they can get right now who meets the size of job, re ole leaving i think the very reason he needs to walk is to show he actually cares rather than hanging on and taking the cash, they won't let him go without a payment but he needs to initiate it not them
Report 11kv October 24, 2021 8:11 PM BST
Could make the situation worse if he walks and he knows that,maybe Rio,Paul and Gary could step in they think they talk a good game ..........
Report CLYDEBANK29 October 24, 2021 8:26 PM BST
can't get any worse
Report Capt__F October 24, 2021 8:29 PM BST
nothing to do with the manager

Ask loo
Report Emitdeb October 24, 2021 8:32 PM BST

Report rothko October 24, 2021 8:33 PM BST
Capt__F • October 24, 2021 8:29 PM BST
nothing to do with the manager

Ask loo

lou is a footie shrewdie - sack the players not the manager Wink
Report CLYDEBANK29 October 24, 2021 8:34 PM BST
The players are too good for the board to accept recent performances surely?  With all due respect to Newcastle and Steve Bruce, he had one of the worst five squads in the Premier League for the duration of his tenure, had the fans on his back the whole time, and did a decent job keeping them up.  Man Utd on the other hand.  Could have lost all three in the UCL and barely any of their opponents players would get a game at UTD.  Awful in their last 4 Premier League and an embarrassment of riches to choose from in terms of personnel.
Report rothko October 24, 2021 8:39 PM BST
why on earth wasnt sancho playing if they were trying to press higher up the pitch
he has been brought up on it at Dortmund
Report CLYDEBANK29 October 24, 2021 8:55 PM BST
Can't blame injuries or bad luck.  They look about as cohesive as Walmington-On-Sea's home guard.
Report G Hall October 24, 2021 9:06 PM BST
It is absolutely shameful that a legend of the club who won the champions league for Manchester united should be treated like this.

Absolutely shameful people are so fickle.
Report elise October 24, 2021 9:12 PM BST
if he hadn't stuck his leg out in a champions lge final and got a touch would he be a "legend"?
Report CLYDEBANK29 October 24, 2021 9:14 PM BST
Is that a joke?  Shameful is the treatment handed out to (Newcastle fan and fellow Geordie) Steve Bruce.  I think the fans and board have treated Olly very well.
Report elise October 24, 2021 9:16 PM BST
fans have been brilliant towards him i think
Report rothko October 24, 2021 9:21 PM BST
Lou is the only one on here who talks any sense

not sure why he blocked me but tell him hes got an ally
Report Racingqueen October 24, 2021 9:38 PM BST
Fans waving white flags at Ole.

Disgusting behaviour

Far worse than Bruces treatment
Report LoyalHoncho October 24, 2021 9:43 PM BST
I agree on all counts CLYDEBANK29 and I think most people do.  I look at the squad sometimes and wonder how Bruce managed it - the stress and pressure must have been enormous.  The Wilson signing made a huge difference and certainly was a big recent help.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 10:25 PM BST
It's funny you know that supposing we can lame OGS for 'A, B and C'.  Why is there's not one mention of the individual mistakes and performances in general of any of the players?

Look at the mix up between Maguire and Shaw, how is that OGS fault?  Yet nobody mentions it?

If said before, Maguire makes a mistake ........... OGS fault?

Ronaldo shoots over the bar ............... OGS fault?

Pogba has a lunging tackle ............ OGS fault?

Like I said, even if we blame him for SOME of it, how come not one pundit, not one United fan or fan of any other club lays any blame whatsoever at the eleven players who are actually on the pitch?

Imagine a new manager comes in, he says "Right I'll show them, here's MY team for my firats match in charge since they sacked Ole"


"Yes they'll show em"

Oh but hang on a minute ...........................................
Report lurka October 24, 2021 10:34 PM BST
Yes it's the manager's fault. The buck stops with the manager, that has been the case for over 100 years in football. Are you only twigging that now or does the penny still have to drop?

He is a) responsible for bringing in the right players b) setting them up well tactically and c) getting 100% effort from them.

He has failed in all 3 areas. Doesn't seem to have a clue about midfield or defence which is not surprising as he was a forward and his CV consists of being relegated with Cardiff. The writing has been on the wall for weeks. Getting out of jail against decent sides. A top class side will hammer them and Liverpool didn't even have to play their absolute best today. Scholes called it during the week. Said they'd be 3 or 4 down by half-time if they played like that against Liverpool.

He has always been out of his depth at Man U. Van Gaal and Mourinho were well past their prime as managers when they were there, they were not top managers at the time. United need a top class manager but Conte is the only current candidate. Zidane still has question marks as a top manager because he's never built his own team and has a relatively poor record in the transfer market. There aren't really any others who could compete with Klopp, Pep and Tuchel.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 10:38 PM BST

You see what I mean, even IF I take all you say about Solksjaer there's not one mention in your reply about one United player?

Surely you can see the mistakes they make and they simply just aren't as good as players at City, Liverpool, Bayern?

How come you don't mention the dire Maguire who is nothing more than a big tall headerer of the ball?  Look at all of De Gea's mistakes last season he was awful that's why he was dropped but you don't mention him?

How often does Bruno do barely anything in a game yet you don't mention him?

Ec etc etc.

Surely SOME of the blame must be the players ffs?
Report lurka October 24, 2021 10:41 PM BST
He signed Maguire and AWB. Has had 3 years to get rid of pogba fred mctominay. His tactics consist of sit back and counter-attack. That's all he has in his locker. If de Gea made mistakes you replace him. Fergie did it with countless players. That's what Klopp did with Karius. What is wrong with you that you can't see that OGS isn't anywhere near top level?
Report wolf3011 October 24, 2021 10:42 PM BST
The players aren't good enough .. ok so who signs them then and why has Ole spent the equivalent of a small countries GDP on transfer fees/wages to bring in what you regard as substandard players? Player recruitment is a key attribute for any manager to be judged on
Report lurka October 24, 2021 10:43 PM BST
Instead he's been chasing Sancho for 2 years as his main priority
Report Racingqueen October 24, 2021 10:44 PM BST
the elephant in the room is these players are not good enough

most have been at the club from well before OGS time and have never shown themselves to be good enough

people still talk about rashford learning ffs hes had over 180 games ffs. He's midtable talent
Luke shaw is championship class. only varaine and ronaldo would get a game at city or chelsea
Report lurka October 24, 2021 10:45 PM BST
After 3 years with all the time and mney he's had he is resposible for every one of the players you say isn't good enough. A top class manager makes his players look like world beaters and gets rid of the ones not up to it.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 10:47 PM BST

Yes I take your point but two thirds of the team were already there so how is he to blame for them?

I like Wan Bissaka as a rule so wouldn't complain at him and Bruno has SOMETHING about him I suppose, he's hardly a bad player?

If they sak him I'd love e new manager to come in, be bale to pick from that same squad of players then all of a sudden ...............

Maguire becomes as good as VVD?

Bruno plays good in most games instead of rarely?

Rashford doesn't just run into brick walls of defenders?

De Gea doesn't drop any more clangers?

Mctominay becomes a really good, talented midfielder?

Pogba plays at his best level most games instead of twice per season?

I've said all along that IF we could pick Kante, De Bruyne, Salah, Lewandowski, Kimmich we would ............. but we can't pick them?
Report Racingqueen October 24, 2021 10:50 PM BST
John McGinn and Declan Rice = Massive improvement
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 10:57 PM BST

It's not 'The Elephant in the Room' it's the simple truth, the players just aren't good enough.

I've pointed out before look at this typical United team from Fergie's day and compare to today ........... NOT ONE PLAYER would get in the team today.











RONALDO at 24 or RONALDO at 36?

See what I mean, he can only pick the players we have NOW and NOT ONE OF THEM would be as good as a typical Fergie side.  I haven't mentioned VAN DER SAAR, IRWIN, BRUCE. PALLISTER. STAAM, KANCHELSKIS, INCE, SOLKSJAER, VAN NISTELROOY, VAN PERSIE, CANTONA, YORKE

The current crop just simply aren't good enough and if say Tuchel, Pep, Sir Alex, Conte, Pocchetino etc etc took over how would they suddenly become as good as the ones I mention above?
Report lurka October 24, 2021 11:05 PM BST
No. He gets rid of Pogba, McT, Fred and prob Maguire and AWB for starters. Pogba is a liability in midfield over a 38 game season. Same type of tackle against Wolves and still hasn't learned. If you want to compete with Klopp and Pep, which United do, you haven't a snowball's chance in hell without a tactically astute experienced manager who plays a modern brand of attacking football at the very minimum. None of these former players as novice managers have worked at Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea, Juve. All chancers learning on the job.

I don't think you can compete with those two managers and Tuchel too probably with passengers like Ronaldo and Pogba in your team. City, Pool and now Chelsea have managers who have all players working at a high rate with every player aware of what his job is with and without the ball. That's what you are up against with those 3. OGS doesn't have a clue. United are a team of individuals who are good enough to beat most teams with inferior players most of the time. I don't think OGS adds anything to that group.
Report wolf3011 October 24, 2021 11:09 PM BST

Oct 24, 2021 -- 4:47PM, LOU MACARIS TARTAN B wrote:

wolfYes I take your point but two thirds of the team were already there so how is he to blame for them?I like Wan Bissaka as a rule so wouldn't complain at him and Bruno has SOMETHING about him I suppose, he's hardly a bad player?If they sak him I'd love e new manager to come in, be bale to pick from that same squad of players then all of a sudden ...............Maguire becomes as good as VVD?Bruno plays good in most games instead of rarely?Rashford doesn't just run into brick walls of defenders?De Gea doesn't drop any more clangers?Mctominay becomes a really good, talented midfielder?Pogba plays at his best level most games instead of twice per season?I've said all along that IF we could pick Kante, De Bruyne, Salah, Lewandowski, Kimmich we would ............. but we can't pick them?

Ole has been there long enough to replace players like De Gea, it's obvious to any of us he isn't good enough to play for colchester united never mind man united so managerial responsibility comes in after 3 years or whatever it is.

Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 11:18 PM BST
But do you lads agree that where we hear "United have a great team of individuals" then they must be over rated because time and time again they do very little, they're just not good enough.

I mentione a few minutes ago about the old United team ................ NOT ONE player now would get in those teams.  Whereas City currently have about four or five who would get in their team of the last twenty years, Salah is fabulous, their Keeper would too, TTA, VVD, even Mane possibly too would get in Liverpool's team.  Bayern keep changing and it makes no difference, they're fabulous every season.

Whoever took over at United needs about five or six at least REALLY GOOD players, just don't ask me who.
Report rothko October 24, 2021 11:19 PM BST
i agree with Lou

the players are sh5te - the managers has nothing with setting them up on the pitch or getting them to runaround a bit
persue Sancho who is half decent and knock all the confidence out of him by not playing him - Ole is a genius
Report lurka October 24, 2021 11:27 PM BST
OGS gave de Gea a new deal on 375k a week - this means he is unsellable and will leave only on a free as no other club will pay him those wages.

The likes of Salah, Mane, VVD didn't look anywhere near the players they are until they played under Klopp. You can say the same about nearly every player at both City and Liverpool in respect of Pep and Klopp. They were bought as they have specific attributes to play a defined role in a highly intricate tactical system played by each manager. Look up Liverpool's analytics profiling system if you don't believe me. That's why Klopp can pick up relegated players like Wijnaldum and Robertson for peanuts because they are flagged on this system as having the perfect attributes for what he wants in a player in their position within his system. That's what you are competing against. Guys who are gifted and who have been honing and tweaking their approach for 15+ years versus a guy who has zero experience.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 11:29 PM BST

Let me ask you this clearly then:

Do you put ANY BLAME WHATSOEVER at the current crop of United players?
Report lurka October 24, 2021 11:30 PM BST
Yes they were very poor today and have been for a long time but they are not as bad as they look, still one of the best squads in the league and a manager like conte or klopp/pep would be getting a lot more out of them.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 24, 2021 11:37 PM BST
Ok thank you.  The first person to admit it's also down to the players.  Not one pundit mentions it, everyone commenting on here, not one mentions it that surely individual errors can't be OGS fault.

And whilst we think we have some great players, we clearly haven't because time and again they do very little.  Someone else mentioned a list of who to keep and who to sell and I agreed with most of it.  If it were me I'd only keep WAN BISSAKA, CAVANI, GREENWOOD and possibly RONALDO.  The rest we need replacements for as they're simply not good enough.

I do hope if another manager comes in, we'll give it say a dozen games and lets see if they're suddenly as good as City, Liverpool, bayern with THIS CROP OF PLAYERS.  Quite looking forward to it actually, just maybe someone will finally say "Yes fair enough Lou you did say it's mostly down to the players and we need about eight replacemenst".

Let's see ..................
Report lurka October 24, 2021 11:59 PM BST
The pundits generally criticise the players, not the manager.
Report wolf3011 October 25, 2021 12:26 AM BST
if its all down to the players, why bother with a manager at all. Ole has spent over 500 million at United, how much do you think he needs? Who spent 80 million on Mcguire , 75 million on sancho , 35 million on van de beek, the tooth fairy?
Report wolf3011 October 25, 2021 12:29 AM BST
The manager spends around half a billion on players and " united need around 8 replacements " after being there 3 years... what can anyone say to that other than laugh?
Report lurka October 25, 2021 12:41 AM BST
Lou, you constantly treat OGS as if he's only been there a dozen games with THIS CROP OF PLAYERS.

The fact is they are all his players at this stage, whether he signed them or not. He's had 3 years to get a functional midfield for example and to offload those not good enough. Herrera left 3 summer windows ago and he's been after Sancho the last 2. 3 years to offload the players not good enough and a budget and wage bill as high as any club in the world, much higher than Liverpool's, much more leeway to work with.

What is the point of spending 500m as a club if you are going to entrust it to a complete novice? Better off spending 300m and pay a proper manager 50m a year - he'd be worth every penny but half that would be more than enough.   

The likes of City and Chelsea would have fired him at least 18 months ago with a budget like that. Clubs like Liverpool and Arsenal would have to give a manager more time as they can't buy their way out of a mess but Man U City and Chelsea can be ruthless and Man U aren't.

The owners are complete mugs who don't want to win but if they got the right guy in they'd make more money.
Report LoyalHoncho October 25, 2021 1:30 AM BST
wolf  Laugh
All you need to know about OGS is that he paid 80M ( reportedly ) for Maguire.  No other evidence needed to confirm he hasn;t got a clue.
Report 11kv October 25, 2021 7:20 AM BST
Yesterday was an outlandish display of a lost dressing room looking for a change in leadership.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 25, 2021 7:51 AM BST
You see, every comment just having a dig at me and blaming OGS.  Why does hardly nobody mention the players?

We needed a CH and Maguire is banded about as being this great defender, I have said all along I think he's very average and a swap for say York City's CH wouldn't be a down turn.  You can see why OGS or the United hirearchy bought him but he just simply isn't good enough.  If Pep, Sir Alex picked him he'd still be that same player who's just not very good.

Van De Beek has had about 10 games where he's started and a good few short sub spots and from what we have seen of him he's another who looks no better than York City's Midfielder, swap them and how much worse could the York guy be?

Sancho's another, not played that much yet but from what we have seen he's no better than you or I.  Tries a dribble, fails ...... OGS fault?  Tries to control the ball, fails ..... OGS fault?  Has a shot that goes miles wider ..... OGS fault?

Like I said if we do get another manager I can't wait to come back on here with still pretty much the same players and see where this new guy takes us.  Look at Arsenal since Wenger's gone, tried about three new manager's? .......... nothing.  Sours tried a couple since Pocchettino ........... nothing.  United tried four manager's since Fergie ........... nothing.  England had EIGHTEEN since Ramsey ........... nothing.

Do you think you or I could be the manager of Celtic/Rangers honestly?  It's a two horse race, who couldn't pick that team?

Yesterday and against Leicester Maguire has made mistake after mistake ........... so that's OGS fAULT?  I'd drop Maguire and about half a dozen others just to go in the dressing room and say "Fcul you lot, you're costing me my job at the biggest club in the land and most of you are sub standard 6/10 players so I'm dropping you and putting the kids in and some of the reserves.  How much worse could Lingard do if he played?, is Matic just as good as Fred?  Get Tuanzebe and Williams in at the back, pick Cavani every game.  The players we have are just not good enough and if the likes of Pep, Sir Alex managed them they's still be making those same mistakes, still be shooting over the bar and missing, still be trying to dribble round opponenets and failing.  Pick Diaz, VVD, De Bruyne, Kante, Lewandowski, Kimmich we'd soon be better then!
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 25, 2021 9:01 AM BST
Plenty of people mention players all the time. But the underlying thing - the one thing that knits it all together - is the guy who bought them, came up with tactics to make them into a team, trained them every week and continues to pick them.

Maguire is bang average. Everyone else was laughing at Utd at the time for spending that much. I CAN see why OGS bought him. Because he's clueless and would rather go with the herd than properly scout a player and the system he wants to use him in.

VdB is another one.Had a couple of good seasons at Ajax (though was never considered among the elite group there) and Ole spends £35M on him. Gets him in, hasn't got a clue what to do with him, and leaves him in the doldrums.

Sancho. Looks a proper talent at Dortmund. Playing right wing, stretching teams, pressing relentlessly, drifting in to the back post and scoring goals. Ole gets him  and sticks him on the left wing! Hopeless.

Utd are only lucky that it's taken till mid-october for them to have faced a decent team. The idea of a top manager going into this season with a midfield of Fred and McTominay! Having a Pogba who can be great but you need to build the team round his deficiencies. To have one of the worst sides in the division at pressing and adding Ronaldo to it! Then making Greenwood a fixture in that (he's a very talented lad but is utterly clueless in how to defend from the front). To turn Bruno from your best player to an utter shadow of himself while he plays second fiddle to the sainted Ronny. If it wasn't for De Gea coming back to form you'd be bottom half. But then you wanted him bombed out the club too.
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 25, 2021 9:10 AM BST
Mad when you look at your list of susperstars

Dias - bought from Benfica. Borderline unknown before joining and was competing with Aké for a place.
VVD - cost a lot but had only played at Celtic and Southampton. Was a big, risky signing and many people saying it was overpriced. But LFC were certain he was the right one and stuck with him even when they had to wait six months.
De Bruyne - Failure at Chelsea. Loaned to Werder who bought him out. Did well at a mid table club then City got him.
Kante - nothing for years, wins the league at Leicester and Chelsea get him

and more

Salah - another Chelsea failure who found his feet at a mid table foreign club
Mané - journeyman, did well at Southampton.
Robertson & Wijnaldum - as mentioned above, bought after they'd been relegated. Integral parts of a team that won the lot.

Point is, Utd have done the opposite. They just don't know how to scout. It's nothing more than watching youtube highlights. Yep, VVD, De Bruyne and Salah look world beaters now, but they weren't when they were picked up and that's what a good manager does. Spots potential and develops it. Ole has only ever done the opposite.
Report rommel October 25, 2021 9:12 AM BST echo PoP,everything on the pitch,subs bench,squad is Oles doing,3 years could have shipped every dud out,hes bought in big time,bigg numbers,contracts which defy logic tbf,tactics formation personnel all down to Ole,team morale,esprit de corps....LOU MIGHT BE FFF NEWS TO YOU but its all Oles work,all of it
Report crystalhunt October 25, 2021 9:38 AM BST
Lou you're like a dog with a bone - of course the players are mostly to blame but the manager is the person who picks the team, gives them a plan and motivates them. There was absolutely no passion on the pitch or on the touch line. No wonder the fans walked out. Why is Ole there in the first place- whose idea was that ffs. They should have fukced Ferguson off from having any influence whatsoever. His hand is all over United's decline - not deliberately, but when someone retires that should be it.
Nearly all of these players play better for their country than they do for United- I wonder why that is.
Playing Spurs next week stop cross ball to Sergio Reguilón your
Win easy ole ain’t going nowhere
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 25, 2021 9:49 AM BST
I've always thought one of the big issues (well, not big) at Utd is the dugout being bricked up in the stand. Staff are all up and miles away from the pitch. Can't imagine Klopp ever putting up with that. Must make the players feel like they're on their own for 45 minutes.
Report Racingqueen October 25, 2021 9:58 AM BST
Yesterdays team had 6 long term failures on the pitch

de Gea

Oles had 3 years to turn the side around

Not a single one of those players are good enough and have had plenty of time to prove that.

A major problem is they have too many attacking players

Martial, Lingaard, Rashford, Fernandes, Sancho, Pogba, Van De Beek & Cavani are playing for 3 positions. No wonder atmosphere is toxic when every game at least 5 are on the bench.

They need to take a hit and get rid of at least 4 imho (Martial, Lingaard, Rashford & Pogba). You can probably add Van De Beek who has probably no time for Ole now.
I'd actually play Van de Beek and Sancho
Report Racingqueen October 25, 2021 10:26 AM BST
Fernandes needs dropping as well
Report PLACEWISE October 25, 2021 10:30 AM BST
The thing is no matter who United sign the coaching staff manage to take the players level of ability and reduce it sometimes in alarmingly quick time

I can’t recall one signing who they have improved or even developed into a top player and sold for a really big profit or kept in years so it’s possible to sign average players and improve them no one would have said Arnold Robertson van dyk salah mane firminio were top class before signed or developed

Now arguably four of them are rated best in the world in their positions so u can sign average players or players of potential but you have to improve them or at least get them playing to their ability consistently

Maguire and Robertson both left hull to win things Robertson has won prem league champs league super cup world club championship and maguire has won a penalty so far
Report Racingqueen October 25, 2021 10:34 AM BST
and I forgot Greenwood, 9 ego filled attacking players playing for 3 places with one place guaranteed to Ronaldo
Report Racingqueen October 25, 2021 10:39 AM BST
Placewise, if you have 9 players who expect to be first team players being chopped and changed, it doesn't matter what coaching occurs.

Ego takes over. You can see Martial and Pogba want out yet still get game time ffs. OGS had to make a decisive decision and picjk the 3/4 attacking players he would keep with Ronaldo and chuck the rest even if it cost them a hit financially.
Report PLACEWISE October 25, 2021 10:42 AM BST
Not every play signed had or have ego issues but not one has been improved
Report bobweenit October 25, 2021 11:02 AM BST
Lets hope Ole stays at the wheel

On of my favs of a load of great tweets yesterday and she was sat among the ....
Report Racingqueen October 25, 2021 11:04 AM BST
it may not be ego but any ambitious professional will either lose confidence or like Martial or Pogba chuck their toys.

Utd have no midfielders yet 9 attacking players with 4/5 on bench every game Crazy

OGS needed to nail his flag to 4 players and stick with them no matter what.

Sell the remainder and replace the 2 useless midfielders with Declan Rice & John McGinn and you would see improvement and more balance

the 3 attacking players behind Ronaldo need to work harder and cover the midfield. There is no workrate currently. Fernandes is a liability and doesn't work well with Ronaldo
Report elise October 25, 2021 11:28 AM BST
if they don't pull a rabbit in the next week or two then by mid december the games against palace & norwich might be more about staying out of the bottom 6 than the top 6
Report Racingqueen October 25, 2021 11:35 AM BST
in mild defence of the midfield as well, scholes is completely correct in saying they have 2 midfielders who consistently get outnumbered because the attacking 3 do not work hard enough and cannot defend. if you play against a 433 like city and liverpool, you will get done 9 times out of 10
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 25, 2021 1:48 PM BST
So if City sign the whole of York City's team, becuase they are managed by the great 'Pep' they'd suddenly win everything would they?  What a load of nonsense.  Once more below nobody mentions any fault on the players whatsoever.  Nothing they do is down to them it's all OGS fault.  What a load of nonsense.

Don't forget England's EIGHTEEN different managers since Sir Alf yet they do nothing ................. anyone think it may just be that our PLAYERS just aren't good enough having tried EIGHTEEN dIFFERENT MANAGERS????

If OGS goes I hope you all come back to this thread if the new manager is doing no better and apologise for the bollox you all spout.

Maguire makes an almighty **** up with Shaw on Sunday ........... and it's Ole's fault!!!!  PMSL
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 25, 2021 1:55 PM BST
Here's what Ronaldo says:

The Norwegian took full responsibility for the chastening defeat, but Ronaldo has suggested that it is the players, and the players alone, that are to blame.

“Sometimes the result is not the one we fight for. Sometimes the score is not the one we want,” the 36-year-old posted on social media.

“And this is on us, only on us, because there’s no one else to blame".
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