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14 Jul 18 20:07
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How it used to be Love


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Report spyker May 16, 2024 8:02 PM BST
you lot may find this interesting....or not......

https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/may/16/dead-hand-of-the-immovable-glazers-keeps-strangling-manchester-united

Dead hand of the immovable Glazers keeps strangling Manchester United

In February, the NFL players’ union carried out its second annual survey of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and let’s just say it wasn’t pleasant reading. Tampa Bay players reported that the changing room was “not clean, constantly smelly and has a persistent bug issue”. The sauna was described as “dirty and/or mouldy”. This barely a decade after an MRSA outbreak infected three Buccaneers players, two of whom never competed again.

In addition, players complained about being forced to pay $90 (£72) for childcare on match days (most teams offer this for free), being charged $1,750 a season for the privilege of having their own hotel room on away trips and being made to sit at the back of the plane while club staff travelled first class. Most of the blame for this state of affairs was laid squarely at the team’s ownership, whom the survey ranked 29th out of the 32 NFL franchise owners, and who go by the name of the Glazer family.

Bear in mind this is how the Glazers – some of the wealthiest people on the planet – treat their most valuable employees, the ones who put their bodies on the line and make the spectacle, people they know and meet. How do you reckon they regard Manchester United fans, a bunch of regular people on the other side of an ocean who they will never encounter in their lives? Perhaps we got a strong indication of this on Sunday afternoon, as the heavens opened and so, in large part, did the Old Trafford roof.

As a piece of pathetic fallacy it was almost too perfect, too cliched, too obvious. And yet much of the subsequent commentary focused on the sodden humiliation of Erik ten Hag, cowering in his tan suit. Or the embarrassment of Sir Jim Ratcliffe on the day he hosted the mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, and the Labour leader, Sir Keir Starmer, in an attempt to make the case for a publicly funded redevelopment of the Old  Trafford area.

Ratcliffe, understandably, has attracted most of the attention since securing a minority stake in the club late last year. There have been star hires such as Omar Berrada and Jason Wilcox, as well as the pursuit of Dan Ashworth. There have been stern internal emails about working from home and the cleanliness of club offices. There has been talk of transfer targets and new coaches, an assertive media presence, plenty of friendly interviews and briefings.

Ratcliffe’s 27.7% stake – due to increase to 28.9% by the end of this year – gives him certain levers over footballing matters, as well as a couple of seats on the board. But the Old Trafford deluge was a timely reminder of where the power still resides at United, where it has resided for the past two decades and where it may well reside for the next two decades as well. For all the talk of revolution and reinvention, this is a club still firmly labouring under the dead hand of the Glazers.

In a way, the Ineos deal has entrenched them even more firmly: giving them a handy form of public cover, a lightning rod for the club’s many failings and a huge injection of capital that might otherwise have to come from their own pockets. They are under no obligation to sell any further shares and, indeed, should they wish to offload the club to a new buyer at a future date it is Ratcliffe who would have to forfeit his stake in order to facilitate this.


Why are the Glazers so intent on retaining control of a club in which they seem so disinclined to invest their money or time and where they are roundly despised? There is a buzz phrase in macroeconomics known as “the asset economy”, which basically holds that in Anglo-capitalist societies, the primary determinant of social class and life chances is no longer your job, but what you already own. With wages stagnating while asset prices continue to rise, a growing societal and political rift has developed between those working to survive and those who can simply live off the inflationary proceeds of their existing assets.

“Nothing changed since I left,” observed Cristiano Ronaldo of his return to Manchester United in 2021. “The pool, the jacuzzi, even the gym. I thought I would see new technology, new infrastructure. I saw things I saw when I was 20.” The former chief executive David Gill remembers that the Old Trafford roof was leaking a decade ago, but because the club were champions no one noticed.

According to the football finance blog Swiss Ramble, in the past decade United have spent less than Fulham and Leicester and barely more than Brighton on infrastructure development. Meanwhile, against a backdrop of chronic underinvestment and net debt of about £773m, the Glazer family has made about £1.3bn from share sales and dividend payments since taking over at United. This is how the asset economy works: the asset itself becomes your paycheque and everyone who needs it essentially works for you.




It’s easy to see why the Ratcliffe non-takeover takeover has generated such fevered optimism in United circles. It offers the illusion of control in an uncontrollable landscape, the illusion of simplicity in a bewilderingly complex situation, the illusion of renewal when in reality very little has changed. You can’t get the Glazers out. You can’t see or contact them. You can’t afford to buy their shares, and even if you could you can’t force them to sell. And you can’t overturn the culture of parasitic rentier capitalism that allows them to operate or detonate the regulatory structures that render it legal.

But we can froth about the arrival of Wilcox and Graham Potter, and fixate on levels of internal email traffic, like any of this matters. Perhaps, given the torrent of negative publicity this week, we may even be treated to a ceremonial fixing of the Old Trafford roof. I’m thinking photo-ops, I’m thinking North West Tonight, I’m thinking Quinton Fortune in hi-vis holding a golden hammer.

Meanwhile, the turnstiles keep clicking and the assets keep sweating. After all, at a club as lucrative and popular as United, you never need to repair the roof because the sun is always shining.
Report SirNorbertClarke May 16, 2024 8:46 PM BST
The players milk the club so why shouldn't the owners?
Report SirNorbertClarke May 19, 2024 12:05 PM BST
Or should that be...

The owners milk the club so why shouldn't the players?
Report duffy May 19, 2024 3:41 PM BST
Very good piece that, sums the state of affairs up perfectly, Ratccliffe is nothing more than the Glazers patsy, I'm surprised how a man as successful as him and at his age allowed himself to even think that he could change anything with the bottom line being that the Glazers are still there and going nowhere.
Report comingupthehill May 19, 2024 5:21 PM BST
Ten Haag 60 mins,
Talking to coaching staff,we don’t look threatening,not had any shots,what shall we change.
Might try putting a striker on,you know those players who play up front,oh right,yeah,good idea.
Report brentford May 19, 2024 6:23 PM BST
yep..god forbid we give any credit to Ten Hag for taking him out of the firing line in last 2 games and getting him back scoring in successive games as bench impact...
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! May 20, 2024 12:41 PM BST
The entertainers end the season with a minus 1 goal difference
Cor blimey
Silly
Report SirNorbertClarke May 20, 2024 12:49 PM BST
United's defence has more holes in than a string vest. Time after time teams have been able to get shots off on their goal. Embarrassing.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! May 21, 2024 7:53 PM BST
Seems manu have the idea new manager to take over
from 10 hag

POCH

Silly
Report brentford May 21, 2024 7:56 PM BST
wouldn't mind Poch..he was my preferred option to Ten hag..

suspect he's going somewhere else though..

slightly ironic he leaves Chelsea just as he's (seemingly) sorted out the mess
Report tobermory May 21, 2024 8:30 PM BST
I think Pochetinno would be the best option for United, and the club would suit him better than PSG/Chelsea did

Seems though the INEOS people are going down the 'sports science' route with boffins and psychologists talking about 'marginal gains', and Southgate is into that stuff.
Report SirNorbertClarke May 21, 2024 10:04 PM BST
Poch, so what style of play do you think United would play?
Report SirNorbertClarke May 22, 2024 10:17 AM BST
Jim Ratcliffe hasn't spunked in a few billion to get United back to also rans. I think he sees the club as winning title sand CLs again. That's highly unlikely under Poch.

JR and his team believe in science so I think Potter is a real candidate.

I also think McKenna may have turned their heads.

They may well be considering other candidates but I doubt any of the will be old school like Poch.
Report brentford May 22, 2024 2:08 PM BST
Poch, so what style of play do you think United would play?

he's pretty generic in the current EPL..

plays out from the back, puts a premium on possession, presses and counter presses high, has tended to play 4-2-3-1 with Chelsea though not entirely adverse to using wing backs..

positives are has a good rep on working with younger players and not afraid to use them, ticks boxes as media and fan friendly,
despite parting with Chelsea doesn't have any great rep as being challenging to work with for ownership.

Possible Negatives - aversion to more specialist coaching (eg set piece coaches) according to some of the stuff out of Chelsea..though can't say that would bother me.


Think Utd are a very long way from winning PL's or CL's whatever Jim's ambitions.
Report duffy May 22, 2024 2:26 PM BST
Poch has charisma but also a stern side to him, he will be able to get hold of the dressing room, the reports are really insisting here that it was an amicable split from Chelsea and we all know that Poch really wanted the United job the first time around so it looks very much as if he was more than happy to get out of Chelsea in order to have another chance with United.

Ineos must know that as much as they may prefer a robot such as Potter or Southgate,( as an aside, he may be less likely now with the Rashford decision, well done to Southgate for that by the way) they will have the fans immediately against them should an appointment such as those be made, Poch will be accepted by the fans but as said above it is going to depend on how much interference Ineos want to commit on the playing side of things.
Report SirNorbertClarke May 22, 2024 3:25 PM BST
I think all managers have a stern side to them but how stern they can be depends on how much the owners are prepared to back them up.
Report spyker May 24, 2024 7:43 PM BST
Getting rid of TH tonight doesn't inspire confidence in  the new 'management' competence - what motivation do any of the team have other than not getting injured for their national teams?
Report SirNorbertClarke May 24, 2024 8:10 PM BST
Mainoo is learning Spanish
Report the_don May 24, 2024 10:07 PM BST
I don't personally see the fascination for Pochettino. Did well at Southampton which is a totally different task, a fair job at Spurs which tailed off at the end and I don't think he's pulled up trees at PSG or Chelsea - where Cole Palmer's late season form has disguised a bit of a mess.

If reports/rumours are true about ten Hag going, I'm a bit surprised as the off field set up (Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox etc) aren't in place yet - thought he may have been kept on until that was settled.

Also there's no stand out candidate where we would have to move immediately. McKenna, Southgate, Potter, de Zerbi are not massively in demand from top clubs. Tuchel is the only one available who would interest me but I'm not sure he's the right fit for what Ineos are looking to put in place.
Report SirNorbertClarke May 24, 2024 10:15 PM BST
United badly need a manager who can make good players into a great team.
Report duffy May 25, 2024 5:00 PM BST
Let's not be having any more talk of City being some kind of great teamLaugh

Credit where it's do, hope ETH can enjoy the momentCool
Report the_don May 25, 2024 5:09 PM BST
Pep could jack it in, looking at him during and here after the game Laugh

Credit as you say to ten Hag, got the tactics right, hung in there like we haven't mostly this season and...... I've no idea how we've got through that cup run and managed to win it
Report duffy May 25, 2024 5:33 PM BST
Body language between ETH and Ratcliffe wasn't good, a rather cold looking handshake, whereas Pep and a number of United players got a hug.

Rashford looking a bit detached through the celebrations IMO.
Report olddesperado May 26, 2024 6:49 AM BST
Rashford will be fine Duffy,  he had his tears up on Instagram a little later to remind everyone of his commitment to United.

So it's unlikely they were parting tears,  more likely that he's realised he's becoming bit part to the team and second fiddle to the youngsters.

And what of those youngsters,   the future is bright with some of those about.
Get the next few signings right in significant positions and we should start growing.

Amad, Garnacho, Hojlund,Dalot and Mainoo could be a mainstay for years.

We badly need the right profile centre back signing but I'd still chance offering Varane a reduced one year deal .

Even with his injury record he'd be invaluable as cover/rotation throughout the season.
I'd do likewise with Evans and involve him in youth support training etc.
He's just such a fabulous professional.
Hopefully we sign someone to partner the absolutely brilliant Lisandro but what great cover those two would be as we nurture Kambawla through.

I know Mainoo got the motm but for me it was Sofyan Amrabat,   he was immense yesterday.
His buyout is pretty small and I think we've seen enough quality at times to hope his poorer performances were an adjusting to the pace of the league issue rather than a quality one.
It's a small risk at his price once we don't go all Woodward and put him on insane wages.
Report olddesperado May 26, 2024 7:05 AM BST
As for departures,
AWB,Lindolof,Sancho,Greenwood, Donny,Erickson, Martial, Williams should all go I'd imagine and I'd sell Maguire,Shaw,Rashford  and mctominay if the right offers came in.

The positions we need to invest are, centrehalf,leftback,centre mid,centre forward.
I think those four positions would help us immensely,
Just buy the right profile young hungry player 30 to 50 million and if only two of them succeed it's a positive.

The days of buying superstars should be over.
Report olddesperado May 26, 2024 7:15 AM BST
I'm don't know if yesterday saved ten hag but he must regret not making us more compact sooner in the season.
It could have come from Wilcox as we tightened up once he watched a few games but we just looked so much more secure last few games.

It also improved our attacking play as we actually had the ball for a change and progressed it forward rather than blind over the tops for Rashford to chase even if it was a bit of a tactic yesterday.
Report olddesperado May 26, 2024 7:22 AM BST
It's hard to know what to do with the other two guys in Spain but I'd probably sell although Hannibal not getting game time probably wouldn't see that happen .

I always liked him and would happily take him back if we couldn't sell to make up the numbers now that we have the burden of Thursday/Sunday for large chunks.
Report FATTIEWHITEYSLOVEADRINK May 26, 2024 9:06 AM BST
Way you played yesterday
Moyes be first one though the door
Thought I was watching my team sitting on
Own pen box being hit wave after wave
Report SirNorbertClarke May 26, 2024 9:39 AM BST
The INIOS silence regarding EtH's future can only mean one thing.

IMHO they have already agreed a deal with a new manager and he will already be working with the new Director of Football and Technical Director on a clearout & rebuilding.

They'll probably give it a week or two before formally sacking EtH
Report elise May 26, 2024 10:24 AM BST
a truly dreadful performance.

I have done my bank on City as winners.




did u manage to salvage any of the 2 quid?
Report the_don May 26, 2024 2:47 PM BST



Roy knew Wink
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! May 29, 2024 12:40 PM BST
Owners cutting 20% of admin staff
Looks like robots will be introduced
to help spectators find their seats
Laugh
Report duffy June 2, 2024 6:05 PM BST
More evidence that Ineos aren't what they were cracked up to be, firstly they make a balls up of the Ashworth appointment and now it seems they need forever and a day to realize that the season was a bag of sh1teCryCry with the review being carried out in no small part by a bloke that used to run a cycling team and a bloke that used to play on the wing for BlackburnPlain
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 2, 2024 8:23 PM BST
Surely Ten Haag is staying now?


Can't believe it'd be more than a week if they were getting rid.
Report SirNorbertClarke June 2, 2024 8:30 PM BST
If IMEOS knew what they were doing then Nice would be challenging for Ligue 1
Report olddesperado June 3, 2024 12:38 AM BST
The way I see it is they don't want to keep him otherwise they would have stated it to curb speculation but are not against keeping him if they can't get someone they want.

Potter us free and available and willing  so it's not him , Tuchel is free but maybe more complex and Southgate is not free for another month or so and sacking Ten Hag and leaving a vacuum would be crazy considering the media profile of united so I can only assume it's Tuchel and they can't agree terms yet or they are waiting on Southgate to finish the euro's.

It's not what I'd want but is probably the more likely.
Report duffy June 3, 2024 5:37 PM BST
I've been worried about the potential appointment of Southgate for months now and this looks like what they want, I think they are just waiting until after the Euro's because they don't want to have any de-stabilizing accusations coming their way.

They won't care that it will be a tight window going into the new season as the manager won't have much input into signings anyway and if it doesn't happen ETH will just get a stay of execution and they'll say that there was never any need for them to have publicly backed him as he was the manager in place anyway and the season was ended on a positive note.
Report tobermory June 3, 2024 6:15 PM BST
Yeah, I have backed Southgate and am level on ten Haag.

Logically it likely has to be one or the other by what has happened up to now......

If they had decided it was definitely gonna be ten Haag then surely they would put all the speculation to rest.

So they must be hoping for a candidate that is not immediately available, and only Southgate fits that criteria.

I'm amazed at his price, the INEOS people are going big on 'sports science' mumbo jumbo and Southgate is very much associated with that.

Of course if he turned it down, or was devalued by a Last 16 exit, they could then stick with Erik and say that was the plan all along.
Report The Dragon June 3, 2024 6:45 PM BST
what you both say makes eminent sense but no mention of Poch- he must enter calculations surely

He remains second fav
Report tobermory June 3, 2024 6:51 PM BST
Poch is probably the best choice

But from a betting point of view the question is why haven't they already appointed him?

I would think if they were going to replace ten Haag with someone currently available then it would have happened by now.

Surely would happen before Euros at least, but no speculation right now about Poch.
Report The Dragon June 3, 2024 7:21 PM BST
fair point but there is the danger in your logic in that the decsion makers at old trafford dont seem to have that degree of sense.

we shall see
Report The Dragon June 3, 2024 7:30 PM BST
eth has drifted out to 2.48. southgate and other have shortened
Report lurka June 4, 2024 12:11 AM BST
Brailsford is a snake oil salesman and his 'sport science' nonsense in cycling was a cover for drugs, which is essential to win in that sport.
Not as if sport science hasn't been around for a long time in football, as it was in cycling where they were obsessed about that before he arrived. What exactly is he going to improve on?
INEOS seem to be gearing towards an English manager which will not work. If it is Southgate just ask what will fans of rival teams think? There's your answer.

Just because ETH hasn't been sacked yet means nothing. You get the new guy contracted first, then announce both within a few days. No immediate hurry as the euros are on and pre-season won't start for weeks. The worry is other clubs have signed pep disciples like Kompany and Maresca, who seem to be the future, like Alonso and Arteta. The only available ones that can compete are Alonso and Klopp. The likes of Potter and Poch are a level below. 

But United prob need a 2 year clearout and maybe a step back to go forward is more in order. An ambitious manager shouldn't want anything to do with that. Another yes man or a Moyes might be better with the right guys above him doing things the right way - should be ok to united fans.
Report brentford June 4, 2024 12:42 AM BST
I think you misunderstand Brailsford's role tbh Lurka..

he was brought in to appraise what was wrong with the sporting structure of the club and will have a very limited role by most accounts once the football structure is fully in place....

as I've said previously on here, there are no guarantees of the minority ownership having success but the key difference is they are actually attempting to create a modern, elite football club environment...something that hasn't existed at Utd ever actually..as it wasn't required twenty years ago and has never existed under the Glazers model..

The idea that Pep disciples are somehow the holy grail is nonsense anyway on a variety of levels...but mostly that cheap fakes don't stand up to scrutiny and football moves on regardless..

Kompany was signed as 4th or 5th choice at Bayern...Alonso got outcoached by an old Italian who most people can't name (Gasperini) in the biggest theatre of Leverkusens season..Maresca hasn't managed a game at Chelsea yet..so hold the crown a bit..
Report lurka June 4, 2024 1:16 AM BST
I don't rate Maresca or Kompany yet, but I didn't with Arteta for a long time. I wouldn't regard them as cheap fakes yet if they've worked day to day with Pep tho. There are a number of clone managers who haven't who don't seem to be the same level, ETH included.

Alonso is a young, inexperienced manager and Arteta was the same against Bayern in an unfamiliar format against much more experience on the field and in the dugout. Plenty of time and room to improve there.

You are prob right about Brailsford, they have enough football guys like Wilcox in situ below him but if they hire Southgate or Potter I'll be laughing. There aren't any available big names with experience who might compete other than Tuchel. But I think a 2 year clearout/rebuild is more important short-term than the manager and a top manager likely won't come if that's the focus. If it is, no real point in firing ETH unless you take a risk on a younger manager with potential, as Chelsea and Bayern have. If I were a United fan, I'd be happy with that.
Report mesmerised June 4, 2024 2:24 AM BST
Anyone that thinks Arteta is a cheap fake obviously hasn't been awake the last 2 seasons, Arsenal have looked like genuine title contenders under Arteta, losing out in 22/23 after Saliba, best defender in the league, was injured to be replaced by Holding, who looked hopeless, and then this season by just a couple of points.

Not to mention getting much closer in h2h's, in the last 3  games v City, City have conjured up 1 single goal with Arsenal unbeaten. 

Whatever Braisford role is at United, he is tainted with the drugs in Cycling scandal , in Cycling during his time in particular, it was always a case of May the best chemist win, and Bradley suspect package wiggins, won, as did Froome and his TUE's with even a parliamentary report delivering the verdict Team Sky 'crossed an ethical line by using the loophole to administer drugs to enhance performance. Sky ended up pulling out.

Why you want to bring that shady character into the club wants looking at by the Glazers.

Any new manager that comes into Old Trafford will need nearly as much time as Arteta to rebuild the club back to where they were, his first three seasons were 8th, 8th, 5th. Your best signing could be Dan Ashworth once he's finished watering the plants, painting the fence and tarting up the rose bushes on his gardening leave, but he will have to work with the manager not dictate to him, like Edu does with Mikel, recruitment at both clubs over the years has been shocking, it's far better now at Arsenal and it's paying off, but nobody has bought dross quite like United. You should be dangerous in 2-3 years with the new set up though, in the meantime you'll have to grin and bear it. The main reason why Emery suffered was because he could not get rid of the players he was lumbered with on big contracts and could not get the players in he wanted as well, having the likes of Pepe foisted upon him by dodgy heads of recruitment in Raul Sanllehi, you could see he wanted out in the end and starting making bizarre in-game decisions almost as if he was asking for the sack. If the next United manager has zero say in any player comings and goings, he will go the same way. As someone who grew up on the Arseanl/United rivalries of the late 90's/early 00's I will like to see it return, it's not the same with plastic clubs like City and Chelsea.

Kind Regards.
Report brentford June 4, 2024 2:32 AM BST
Anyone that thinks Arteta is a cheap fake obviously hasn't been awake the last 2 seasons

indeed...he'd be an example of someone that now stands on their own merit...rather than simply a production line of destined greatness that only exists when documentaries of different eras leave out all the ones that went on to do f*** all...
Report SirNorbertClarke June 4, 2024 9:21 AM BST
If we are ever to return to former glories then we need a strong spine and talented players who would die for the club.

United need gutting.
Report duffy June 4, 2024 2:51 PM BST
And regardless what you think of Ineos, and they have not had a good start, the bottom line is that the Glazers are still there,call the tune and destabilize things any time they choose to.
Report duffy June 4, 2024 2:52 PM BST
and can destabilize things
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! June 5, 2024 1:09 PM BST
More bad news
The plebs
Sorry admin staff to be barred from players canteen
We have to settle for
)a-bring your own sandwiches
b)Go to the local chippie

Laugh
Report duffy June 5, 2024 5:25 PM BST
Another example developing here of rich successful businessman immediately turning into a dope when acquisition of football club occurs.
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! June 7, 2024 9:30 PM BST
Southgate
well suited to manu
No plan for the players
a la 10 hag
Laugh
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 11, 2024 10:18 PM BST
10haag staying...
Report lurka June 12, 2024 10:30 AM BST
He's been backed but they've clearly put the feelers out for alternatives and didn't find a better option. The real job at United will be done by people other than ETH and he's been unlucky with injuries etc so prob smart to keep him on.

But he has reportedly got 1 year left and United have an option to extend to 2026. Why offer him a new contract now, as reported? That seems strange as an option allows them to get rid for no compo next summer or tie him down for another year if he does well (and offer him a new contract then). Maybe they will deal with that in the new contract.
Report SirNorbertClarke June 12, 2024 11:55 AM BST
Why were so many United players injured last season?

Rooney reckoned some were hiding in the treatment room.
Report lurka June 12, 2024 12:35 PM BST
They lost their head of medical who went back to the Fergie days and replaced him with a guy who was at Arsenal for 14 years. I don't think Arsenal had a good injury record when he was there and it seemed to improve last season after he left. But United had injury problems before he arrived too.
Report brentford June 12, 2024 1:15 PM BST
O'Driscoll only arrived in Sept of last year so a bit early to judge his impact...plenty were crocked before he would have had any impact and plenty were injury prone types anyway (Varane, Martial, Shaw, Malacia and Martinez issues pre dated him..

O’Driscoll is one of the most experienced and respected leaders in sports medicine, having served as chairman of the Premier League Doctors’ Group and a member of the FA Medical Committee.
Before joining Arsenal, he spent six years as team doctor for the Ireland Rugby Union team, and performed the same role for the British and Irish Lions rugby team during two tours to New Zealand and South Africa.

He was trackside medical lead at the London 2012 Olympics and also had a spell as medical adviser to the Great Britain cycling squad.


doesn't sound un-qualified tbh and has brought someone else from his Arsenal staff in the off season (head physio Jordan Reece).

They also only began the review of the medical side in Decemeber apparently so this coming season will be more important in evaluating his success or otherwise.
Report brentford June 12, 2024 1:19 PM BST
As for Ten Hag..if you are doing a full review and assessing alternatives the process has been fair enough..was in danger of taking too long but fair enough in the end imo.

If they'd sacked him this season they'd have had to pay around 9m reportedly...can't imagine it will be that much more than that if they sack him this coming season...but if after a full review you say you're still not sure so don't commit to a contract extension - it's not a great place to be - there's also the issue of his role changing from manager to head coach which requires adjustment of contract terms.
Report lurka June 13, 2024 10:45 AM BST
I don't buy all this 'they have to back him' stuff from SSN. He is under contract and didn't do well last season. Not all his fault but some of it was. They could have fired him but didn't. His signings have been questionable at best. A lot of reasons not to back him any further and to have doubts. If they do negotiate a new contract I'd be looking to reduce his salary, with bonuses for performance and some sort of break with limited compo within 2 years. ETH should be happy with that. He's on 9m a year ATM, he's not in demand and won't get anything like that anywhere else.
Report PorcupineorPineapple June 13, 2024 12:05 PM BST
He'll be constantly close to fap for next manager gone, unless they give him a new contract. You can't just let it drift the way they did, interview other people and then decide to stick with him without massively undermining the confidence the players and fans will have with him.
Report brentford June 18, 2024 1:23 PM BST
Jonny Evans is officially still a red...and still hates..etc

slightly surprised but cheap back up option, played ok when required last season apart from Palace game when not really fit..
Report duffy June 18, 2024 7:56 PM BST
Ineos obviously going for the old, " Lull the rest of the league into a false sense of security " trick.

We've fallen on our feet with this lot.
Report lurka June 18, 2024 10:31 PM BST
Not sure ETH is a cert for next season yet. Think he mentioned on Dutch TV that they still have a lot to agree on for new terms. Saw it mentioned that they were looking to reduce his 9m a year salary but they may also want a limited payoff/break clause.

Giving him a new contract is not going to give the players and fans confidence in him. They'd have as many concerns as the owners and he can still be fired at any time and paid off.

You don't want to give a manager like that more time unless there's something in it for you too, like a reduced salary and/or limited payoff clause. He has 1 year on 9m left with a reported club's option to extend by another year. Why would you want to increase that to a 20m+ payoff if he does poorly next season? That's prob what he means when he says there's a lot to be agreed still. They could also just be buying time and still looking around while negotiating terms with him.
Report duffy June 20, 2024 7:31 PM BST
At least it's looking more and more difficult for Ratcliffe to be able to work a scenario where he can appoint SouthgateHappy
Report SirNorbertClarke June 21, 2024 9:42 AM BST
^^^^^^ my thinking exactly ^^^^^^
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- June 21, 2024 10:46 AM BST
Southgate was offered the post, he said he wouldn't take it until
after euros, seemingly he thought accepting man utd
job would negatively impact England performances
in euros.

I doubt the job is still on the table. He's had a mare.
Report duffy June 22, 2024 7:55 PM BST
Ineos really couldn't have made a worse start at United, we've had the absolute mess that is the Ashworth appointment, the way they've mis-handled the Ten Haag situation and now even, although indirectly, their very publicly known admiration of Southgate brings their judgement into question still further.
Report duffy July 1, 2024 3:48 PM BST
Ashworth finally in the door, now we'll see some changes.

Instead of long drawn out transfer sagas that ultimately end with United paying an inflated price for a player that has previously worked with Ten Haag we are now going to see a much more stream lined quicker process that will end with United paying an inflated price for a player that has previously worked with Ten Haag.Mischief
Report brentford July 1, 2024 4:05 PM BST
Laugh

pre season optimism alive and well I see...Mischief
Report duffy July 1, 2024 4:14 PM BST
Laugh
Report SirNorbertClarke July 1, 2024 5:16 PM BST
This Ratcliffe's first transfer window, let;s give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
Report brentford July 4, 2024 3:34 PM BST
Christopher Vivell joins as director of global talent and will report to Dan Ashworth. Although his appointment is temporary to help during the summer transfer window, it is possible that he will commit to the club full-time. [
@Dan_Sheldon_


Ten Hag contract extended until June 2026 - doesn't appear to have been any chance in detail so retains transfer veto and title of manager rather than becoming a head coach...
Report duffy July 4, 2024 5:03 PM BST
Things getting sorted bit by bit, at least the club and manager have finally reached agreement on the severance pay that Ten Haag will receive.
Report duffy July 7, 2024 5:53 PM BST
Ineos currently kicking themselves that they jumped on Ten Haag's contract extension when it looked like Southgate had become unemployable so no point in stalling until Euro's were overMischiefGrin
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! July 7, 2024 7:42 PM BST
Hasnt 10 hag has
bought sum more
Dutch players
Laugh
Report 11kv July 8, 2024 4:02 PM BST
Bargain hunters{ bogof}.

Redundancies looming large


Players may have to take their own kit home to wash it I'm hearing.....
Report duffy July 8, 2024 5:33 PM BST
They don't have to wash their own kit but they do have to pay £2 subs before each game...same as I did 30 years agoLoveHappy
Report ImSoLuckyLucky! July 8, 2024 5:57 PM BST
Was that the'BRIBE?
Laugh
Report 11kv July 8, 2024 6:56 PM BST
Ref used to cost £12 a game at the end of my illustrious career....LaughLaugh
Report olddesperado July 9, 2024 12:31 PM BST
Rashford been training early,  wants to get super fit ,  doesn't want to leave , loves the club, some of last year's failure due to bruised rib in February, etc etc etc.

As he's already announced he's staying off socials for a while the once respected journalist  Henry Winter put out the above tripe.

Someone should tell Rashford it loses its affect after about the 4th or 5th pre season he's done it.

His PR team like to portray him as a very private guy but in reality is probably the biggest media **** in the history of football.
Report olddesperado July 9, 2024 12:32 PM BST
Whoor^^
Report duffy July 9, 2024 2:56 PM BST
Wat was doing on the pi55 in Ireland?

Well you see, I had this bruised ribLaugh
Report SirNorbertClarke July 9, 2024 3:14 PM BST
Rashford must know turning it on with 12 months of his SUPER contract to go isn't enough. Unless he wants to be let go like Martial then he needs to turn it on every season. EVERY week.
Report brentford July 9, 2024 3:27 PM BST
he's got another 4 years to contemplate that on £350,000 a week...
Report brentford July 9, 2024 3:29 PM BST
Was definitely a good thing for Utd him being left out of the England squad as  will impact sponsorship earnings and general profile so might get some kind of reaction briefly..
Report duffy July 9, 2024 4:40 PM BST
It really is confusing, Ineos, so far are one almighty contradiction and they have got themselves into a right mess with Ten Haag, we were told that going forward the manager would have less influence in signings, but here we are, they have backed themselves into a corner forcing them to take up the one year option with Ten Haag who they really do not want.

Ten Haag has also managed to retain his veto on transfers going into the new season, so here we are once again targeting dutch players, one of whom is a striker in the mould of Hojlund, rough around the edges and the other is a guy that was all the rage two or three seasons ago but now is a big risk.

It's jut so messy, they've got to be seen to be backing him even though their heart really isn't in it, they've just got to keep front and centre in their minds that if it doesn't work and they get rid they don't want to set things back too much because they're having to deal with things they've allowed him to influence in these next two months.
Report brentford July 9, 2024 4:47 PM BST
Although the veto has been retained essentially the 'football department' have a veto as well, so it certainly won't simply be Ten Hag selections by any stretch (technically Murtough I think it was had a veto previously but not really the clout to use it unlike Ashworth)

they now identify multiple targets with price caps on what the club is prepared to pay and then (presumably) Ten Hag gets a significant influence on which one they try and sign but that is not at all what went before...Anthony, Casemiro signings simply wouldn't get through now at those values..
Report duffy July 9, 2024 4:55 PM BST
The problem is though, we're supposed to have assembled a crack unit of bods that apparently are the dog's bollox when it comes to identifying players, but at the end of the day as long as Ten Haag is there they are completely beholden to him.
Report brentford July 9, 2024 5:02 PM BST
well ETH knows despite the contract extension he's on very thin ice this season (you certainly don't get the benefit twice) and allied to if people like Ashworth, Wilcox actually impress him with what they're doing in terms of players they are putting forward I don't think there need be too much of a gap between the parties....

the main reason ETH wanted so much input in transfers originally I suspect was the record Utd had before he arrived in that area ...obvs turns out he's not a very good judge either - but I think if he has faith in those he's working with he'll be prepared to be much more open to their input going forward...

all good theory of course at this stage..
Report SirNorbertClarke July 12, 2024 8:50 PM BST
Jadon Sancho back in Manchester United training after burying hatchet with Erik ten Hag

Ten Hag and Sancho understood to have drawn a line under their dispute although player not thought to have apologised
Report olddesperado July 12, 2024 9:57 PM BST
Sure won't he be like a new signing,
And Malacia,
Report olddesperado July 12, 2024 10:02 PM BST
With Varanne gone and Casemiro likely to follow I wonder what the rest of the squad think of those bastions of effort  Rashy and Sancho earning nearly double the majority of them.

It's sickening really.
Report olddesperado July 12, 2024 10:07 PM BST
Btw Mainoo has been excellent in a tighter set up with England  than ours.

I really hope ten hag doesn't hang him out to dry like he did with Casemiro trying to man a midfield on his own.
Report duffy July 14, 2024 2:36 PM BST
To use an Americanism it seems to me that Ineos, after giving Ten Haag the bare minimum to continue they are now attempting to "hide the Quarterback".

We've got 2 Assistant managers a senior first team coach and a first team coach.

The one good thing in this make up is that one of them is a proper club legend in Van Nistelerooy, Ten Haag can see Ineos preparing for life after him whilst he's still there but being being able to create the facade that they are not because it's an all Dutch set up.

With all those guys in place it looks very likely that Ruud will be next in line if Ten Haag fails again, they are not going to have assembled that back room set up only to see a completely new guy want his own crew should someone else come in.
Report brentford July 14, 2024 2:50 PM BST
Manchester United defender Willy Kambwala is close to joining Villarreal on a permanent transfer.

The deal will include a buy-back option and matching rights for three years, plus a sell-on clause. It is expected to be completed in the coming days, with Kambwala set to undergo a medical at the Spanish club.
  (The Athletic)
Report brentford July 14, 2024 2:51 PM BST
Donny van de Beek has ended his troubled spell at Manchester United to join Girona in a permanent deal.
The 27-year-old has signed a four-year deal with the La Liga side for a reported measly fee of €500,000 (£423,000), according to renowned football journalist Fabrizio Romano.
Romano also reported that a fee could rise to €15 million (£12.7m) if various add-ons are met.
Report duffy July 14, 2024 2:56 PM BST
That Kambwala transfer is a strange one, youngster who showed promise last year now out the door.Confused
Report brentford July 14, 2024 2:58 PM BST
yep, I was a bit surprised but apparently didn't want to sign a new contract having been told his likely role this season (5th/6th CB I guess)...at least they've covered themselves well if he does kick on I guess..
Report SirNorbertClarke July 15, 2024 8:41 AM BST
Saw big Willy Kambwala in a PL2 game, head and shoulders the best player on the pitch. Easy to understand his desire for Big Boy minutes.
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