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14 Jul 18 19:07
Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 55,133 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
How it used to be Love

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Report cruso September 10, 2021 10:33 PM BST
Could need to go back for Trippier in the Jan window
Report cruso September 10, 2021 10:34 PM BST
Lou , Your cracking me up... briliant..
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 10, 2021 10:35 PM BST

That's better, clear, concise.

Keep up the good work.

I wish we'd have kept Williams, think he's played really well just about every time.  I'd rather him than Trippier for a start.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 10, 2021 10:36 PM BST

Did you mean "You're"?  As in You Are?
Report SirNorbertClarke September 10, 2021 10:43 PM BST
Brandon Williams is a victim of the culture that if we pay £80m for a player he must play no matter what but if they came through the academy then they will need to wait until the £80m player gets injured.

Garner should not be at NF. Martial should have been sold.
Report cruso September 10, 2021 10:47 PM BST
Yes hes a good prospect but needs time on the pitch.
Better on loan than join our ghost squad..
Henderson ( or de Gea ) time will tell
Jones (Happy to take the money ..& the shirt )
Lingard ( England but not Utd, will go for £5 million in Jan )
Donny ( needs to be given some sort of chance )
Martial ... hows he going to get in the team..? ( close second least fav bty )
Report olddesperado September 11, 2021 12:45 AM BST
I've watched Ronaldo a few times over the past year or so including the other night against ireland and the man doesn't do a thing anymore other than goal hang.
Not only does he not close down or run back but he doesn't even want to get involved in the build up play.

He's still a brilliant finisher and will score enough goals to be considered a success but at what cost.

We already have Pogba and Rashford and martial that do nothing to close down or chase back and while Greenwood does try he's lightweight in that department.

The one forward we have that works his socks off in Cavani will most likely be the one making way for Ronnie as I think they would be in each other's way.

When we last had him we had the two hardest working forwards in the league in Rooney and tevez and their work rate compensated for Ronaldo but he does even less now and we haven't got the work rate around him other than Fernandez this time.

It will put pressure on the rest of the team that will eventually collapse as the euphoria dies down imo.

I fully expect a win tomorrow  and probably a big one at that due to the novelty factor but over the next few weeks I expect this charade to reveal itself as a massive mistake although it will be spun differently with others taking the blame.
Report olddesperado September 11, 2021 9:04 AM BST
In what is another bit of proof that ole doesn't learn or can't make a tough decision is him stance on the penalty issue now.

Two years ago we had the crazy situation where ole wouldn't make a call and left it up to rashford and Pogba to decide among themselves on the pitch who takes them.

The result was it put so much added pressure on they both started missing.

Now his comments yesterday seem to hint at something similar with ronaldo and bruno where he says they know my feelings on it and I trust them both with my life taking one.

Its just weak management.
Report rommel September 11, 2021 9:29 AM BST
if the ronster takes over the frees then youre doomed and as od says above a further sign of ole weak as pish
Report loui September 11, 2021 12:14 PM BST
Lou, your of you're head
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 11, 2021 12:54 PM BST

I do like to see good punctuation though.  When I was about six or seven years old I knew the difference between Your and You're.

To, Too and Two is the other one.  How can people not know these things as adults?
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 11, 2021 1:36 PM BST
To, too, and two shirley.
Report loui September 11, 2021 3:22 PM BST
There, their, theyre. Easy tiger.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 11, 2021 5:02 PM BST

Yes a good one.  Watch how many people get it wrong though.  How totally thick are these people?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 11, 2021 5:08 PM BST
So here we go ........... the truth.

Thought it was very difficult breaking down an almost eleven man defence as I've pointed out many times.  Thankfully United got through in the end.

Ronaldo done his thing to be fair, not much more than that but to score two goals how bad is that.  I thought Lingard did well when he came on too and Pogba did too.

Greenwood was quiet as was Bruno apart from his goal but once again can somebody tell me what Sancho done?  He's had the last couple of games now plus a couple of bits and pieces in the other games and I've seen absolutely nothing that makes him any better than Port Vale's winger.  I'm not exaggerating there, how much worse could that Port Vale winger have done?

So going along nicely and in with a shout this year.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 11, 2021 6:03 PM BST
Boasting about knowing about there, their, they're, two, too and to etc etc? What has the our education system come to!
Report SirNorbertClarke September 11, 2021 6:58 PM BST
Will Ronaldo play on Tuesday?

My guess is with the West Ham game being on a Sunday Ronny will want to add to his Champions League tally of 134 goals in 176 appearances
Report rothko September 11, 2021 7:24 PM BST
congratulations to the glaziers
what a brilliant piece of business
all the press full of ronaldo and utd
Report the_don September 12, 2021 9:38 AM BST
As above, the day and build up was totally overblown and the money men will be delighted. Thought Ronaldo did quite well, some decent movement in the first half where the ball wasn't quite right for him. He's still got a bit of a burst to make space to get a shot off as shown for his second goal.

Newcastle defended in numbers, no problem with that. But their time-wasting - mainly the keeper- from the very start was ridiculous. I actually thought Sancho looked bright despite usually being up against 2 or 3 defenders and just needs to get to know his team mates and whether they want an early cross, ball into feet etc etc. It was his first home start for us.

Will probably mention the midfield weakness after every game but I didn't understand the set up yesterday. If you're against a so called weaker team and are dominant in possession and have Matic and Pogba in the middle I don't see why you'd have Pogba picking the ball up off the centre backs 45 yards out. Get him further up where Bruno is and where he helped create the 4th goal. Playing him deeper has been proved not to work in an attacking or defensive sense.
Report olddesperado September 12, 2021 11:44 AM BST
Yep pretty good analysis don.

The midfield is a big concern .

Even with our defence strengthened we could have conceded 4 or 5 to a poor side yesterday.

Wan bissaka is gone backwards and Maguire is poor enough at the moment.

Because of the personnel we currently have I'd go back to a double pivot unfortunately.

Pogba Bruno Ronnie and one other in the front 4 and 2 of Fred matic or mctom behind.

Yesterday proved again even against the weakest teams we are vulnerable with just one holder and the last 5 years have shown us Pogba is wasted there.

Ronnie was a lot more mobile than I'd seen of him recently.
Report the_don September 12, 2021 12:54 PM BST
I've said before I'd only play Pogba in a more attacking role. You wouldn't move Bruno, van de Beek or Lingard back to play there. There will hopefully be big games later on where players will have to be left out but until then rotation and less reliance on a small number of players is a difference we need from the last season or 2.

I'd like to see a slight change where the help for the right winger comes from a midfielder getting forward rather than Wan Bissaka. Opposition are still letting him have the ball and surely we're better if he stays back or covers the middle while a player with more threat gets further forward. He (AWB) stays back to cover on corners etc and though he's improved a bit going forward his pace and 1 on 1 ability defensively means it's a bit of a waste him going forward.
Report the_don September 12, 2021 12:59 PM BST
Ronaldo seems to be one of the most professional players there is and you'd like to think he's got a point to prove in coming back and hearing a few doubters. I certainly don't get the feeling he's here purely for a final big payday.

I actually think he'll improve is most in games like yesterday, to bag goals against the weaker opposition we should be beating, rather than getting goals against the top sides.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 12, 2021 1:41 PM BST
These days I don't think Ronaldo needs to play football for the money. I think it's all about goals.

Against the top sides such as City & Liverpool we usually play a counterattacking game and I'm not sure Ronaldo could beat VvD or Dias from the half-way line.

But if we are to challenge for the title we need to beat all the teams other than City & Liverpool so we do need Ronaldo's insane desire to score goals.

Nowadays he may be a flat-track bully but he's our flat-track bully Grin
Report HallGreenSpy September 13, 2021 12:03 AM BST
The man scores goals simple. Even simpler when the opposition goalie gives em on a plate but you have to be there. He'll do well and if you can scroll back far enough you will see I said I dreaded the day when he came back. Still, there is enough shortfalls in the team to compensate I hope.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 1:07 PM BST
There can be no excuses tonight.  If you're thinking you're one of the best half a dozen teams in it and in with some chance of possibly even winning the trophy then surely you have to beat the mighty 'Young Boy's' by two or three tonight.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 14, 2021 3:29 PM BST
If Ronaldo starts, he scores.
Report ----you-have-to-laugh--- September 14, 2021 5:28 PM BST
The don

Newcastle goalie is always like that
(when I've seen him) odd to watch, just looks
to freeze. Needs to wake up if hes
to make it.

Was even worse in league cup
at home at 0-0

Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 8:01 PM BST
Well what can I say.

Yes it's very hard to play with a man down for two thirds of the game away from home and to be fair to them I thought Young Boys looked as decent side rather than the cannon fodder I thought they'd be.  I think they'll give anyone a game, looked decent.

Thought it a bit harsh on Wan Bissaka though, yes it was a foul and yes it looked quite nasty but I don't think he meant it, specially him he hardly even ever fouls anyone he's just not that type.  Suppose to the ref had to send him off though and after that United were swamped and just trying to hold on.

5th minute of injury time though again hard to take though again to be fair how many times have United got late goals.

So summing up a terrible result I thought United were looking quite good till the sending off.  Ronaldo scores again (what's new) and Sancho for the half an hour he was on was rubbish .......... what's new.
Report salmon spray September 14, 2021 8:06 PM BST
Is this Sancho a dud or is he "settling-in" ?
Report PorcupineorPineapple September 14, 2021 8:58 PM BST
Excellent game management from the boss. Sending off, he makes some changes to ensure Utd aren't overrun. Result? Utd utterly overrun.
Report cruso September 14, 2021 9:14 PM BST
Sancho, Pogba & Lingard all at Parklife on Saurday night.
Make of that what you will but wouldn`t have been allowed in Fergies day.

A bit worrying how Utd capitulated after the red card.
Varane a bit slow for the equalizer I think..
Lingards back pass from 30 yards though a crowd of players was just criminal and in in the dying seconds too.
He should be left behind and exiled to the top of an Alp..
There is just no logic in that.
Once again we lose away to the `weakest` team in the group.
Having said that the manager picked the team and made the vital substitutions & tactical changes and the buck stops with him.
Surely they practice this sort of situation in training..
Report rommel September 14, 2021 9:35 PM BST
LOU MACARI WORLD..... I think they'll give anyone a game, looked decent.
Report GLASGOWCALLING September 14, 2021 10:04 PM BST
  .... Scored in Fergie Time. ...

Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:20 PM BST
Salmon spray 14 Sep 21 19:06 

Is this Sancho a dud or is he "settling-in" ?

No he's a Dud I'm afraid.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:21 PM BST

Yes OGS made the awful pass back in the final minute so it's his fault.

Oh hang on a minute?
Report lurka September 14, 2021 10:39 PM BST
OGS fault for going into yet another season without a midfield partnership that works. Sign all the strikers and centre halves you want, you are not going to bridge the gap with those midfielders. It's been like that from day 1 since he took over and he didn't even try to address it this summer despite spending big. He's happy with Fred, Pogba, Matic and McTominay in central midfield. That is 100% on him.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:46 PM BST

How do you know he's happy with them and what about Bruno isn't he our main attacking midfielder?  He's overrated granted but he's decent isn't he?

He was probably after Grealish, the Spanish guy who plays for Athletico, possibly Rice too (who I don't rate myself he's just another stopper) so again if the club won't pay the money or the players don't want to come how's that Ole's fault?

They've had a good start in the league and surely it was no way his fault they had a man sent off and Lingard gave them the winning goal in injury time?

Come on be fair.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 14, 2021 10:49 PM BST
A top team would have seen that out.

Great to see all the haters loving it; proves theirs are still little clubs.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 14, 2021 10:52 PM BST

Very harsh on us with the very last second after a shocking individual mistake.  Just don't see how everyone seems to want to blame OGS for everything.

It rained all day today was that OGS fault too?
Report SirNorbertClarke September 14, 2021 11:03 PM BST
It's OGS's job to ensure the team (and I mean the coaches too) know what to do after a defensive or attacking red card.

Every game should have a Risk Assessment and migrations.

One of those mitigations should be when playing around the box with seconds to go stick the ball in row Z asap.
Report lurka September 14, 2021 11:24 PM BST
Be fair? He's had 3 summer windows now. He's watched Herrera go to PSG and didn't replace him and has spent all his money on strikers, wingers and centre halves and he's spent a lot. Midfield is the most important area of the pitch and is all about a partnership of players which compliment each other and who can start attacks and protect the defence at the same time and control the game.

United were crying out for a top class midfielder since before he arrived. That's why they signed the likes of Herrera, Fred, Pogba etc. They haven't had a functional central midfield for a decade. You can assume that it's all down to the board not buying who he wanted or players not wanting to come but given the type of players he's brought in, the money he's spent and using occam's razor, it is safer to assume that he doesn't have a clue how to build a proper central midfield partnership. The fact that he again spent big on Ronaldo and Varane and went into the season with the same 4 CMs tells you that.

I'm not talking about where Bruno plays. I'm talking about the two he usually plays in front of the defence. Bruno does not play in that area. He plays in the opposition half. You are talking about two from Pogba, Matic, Fred, McTominay and no combination of them provides the right balance. It's either lacking in the offensive or defensive department or both. Rice would be a massive improvement on the last 3 of those. So would even the likes of Doucoure or Ndidi. It's about getting someone like that who will mop up and let Pogba free to do his thing or else getting two new midifelders and playing pogba elsewhere in a different system. Fred is a disaster and should have been replaced in his first window.

It seems he has a complete blindspot for that area of the pitch because he's ignored it repeatedly while repeatedly spending to bolster his attack and defence. You have to assume he thinks it's working at this stage.
Report HallGreenSpy September 15, 2021 11:59 AM BST
Bit early to be calling sancho a dud I reckon. It's not the Bruno attacking midfield position that is the problem. It's the defensive holding midfield position that United have yet to address. imo.
Report duffy September 15, 2021 4:14 PM BST
Young Boys 2
Old Man 1

Personally I think that Ronnie coming in and taking the role of player manager which, like it or not is what he is, will prove beyond him.

What it will do though is hasten the departure of OGS because once the sh1t really hits the fan that dressing room, with it's current inhabitants will become toxic and he is simply not big enough of a character to be able to hold any semblance of control.

Back to the weekend and the most notable image for many United fans would have been the sight of Ronaldo walking out at OT but it really wasn't.

The sight of any member of the Glazer family taking his seat at OT a mere few months ago would have been unthinkable, but there he was on Saturday proud as punch and no doubt musing to himself that everyone has their price and by producing the fatted calf he had achieved it.
Report PLACEWISE September 15, 2021 4:48 PM BST
Look like a decent bet to lift Europa league possibly
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 15, 2021 5:18 PM BST

So where is your actual factual evidence that Ronaldo is now 'The Player Manager'?

What a load of of fcukin tosh.  Yes he's a big character of course but OGS is the manager of Manchester United Football Club.  Now that is a FACT.

Stop talking nonsense man ffs
Report rommel September 15, 2021 5:37 PM BST
agree entirely with LOU,wtf are you lot on,CR is a player,one of the worlds greats coming to the end of his career,so he just marches into OT n takes over?
Report brentford September 15, 2021 5:38 PM BST
The United think tank when 1-0 up and with 10 men made the inspired choice of leaving both Ronaldo and Pogba on, neither of whom cover anything like enough ground to be viable at that stage , finally made the required sub when it was already too late by bringing off the wrong one Ronaldo (1-1) - probably didn't dare do it earlier anyway and left Pogba on to the end !! trotting about like a low key training session ...the Lingard error was unfortunate though notably occurred as a result of him playing in an unfamiliar role and in many ways was justice for the gross mis-management of the game by the three wise monkeys...
Report duffy September 15, 2021 5:39 PM BST

Try not to take everything too literal, I was indicating that IMO, if and when things really go south Ole will be overcome and won't be able to control these "type" of players and if he actually finds himself in a direct confrontation with Ronaldo he will lose the battle he certainly won't get any support from the board, just as Mourinho, a far bigger character lost out in  his battle with Pogba.

If it was up to him I don't think Ole would have had Ronaldo anywhere near the place.
Report rommel September 15, 2021 5:44 PM BST
why does anyone assume that CR will go into management,he's a billionaire-doesnt need the aggro
Report duffy September 15, 2021 5:50 PM BST
rommel 15 Sep 21 16:37 
agree entirely with LOU,wtf are you lot on,CR is a player,one of the worlds greats coming to the end of his career,so he just marches into OT n takes over?

Uh, yes,

The United dressing room is rudderless, what do you think will happen when a club legend and perhaps the biggest personality and ego in word football waltzes back into the club, oh and as far as the board are concerned a walking money making machine?
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 15, 2021 5:51 PM BST

But that's all just your opinion.

I could say "I think that Ole thinks it's the best decision in the history of football to have Ronaldo back" which is completely contradictory to what you say.

ffs stick to the facts.

Defender sent off ......... your fault? No.  My fault? No.  OGS fault ............. NO!

Lingard back pass.......... your fault? No.  My fault? No.  OGS fault ............. NO!

I've had trouble with my car today .............. must be OGS fault!
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 15, 2021 5:53 PM BST
I can't see what rommel writes but on this occasion I can where you've cut and pasted it.

For once I agree with him.
Report rommel September 15, 2021 6:06 PM BST
CR should have walked away from real or even juve and said thats it but he's taken one more bite and the denouement may not be pretty....
Report duffy September 15, 2021 6:06 PM BST
Yes, only my opinion.

Ronaldo's return has nothing to do with long term thinking and everything to do with commercial gain and with the added bonus of paying off many disgruntled fans.

For instance we will have to take for granted that Greenwood's now stunted progress on the playing field will be made up for by what he "learns" from Ronaldo on the training ground.

By the way, I hope it all works out but I can see a potential bigger downside just waiting to play out.

None of Ronaldo's arrival is going to help out just how bad we are when we lose the ball and that's the biggest problem we have.
Report rommel September 15, 2021 6:09 PM BST
the shirt sales might dry up when the make-up starts flying out the handbag
Report SirNorbertClarke September 15, 2021 8:14 PM BST
josé mourinho @KingMourinho CONTE IS LITTERALLY UNEMPLOYED !!??? @ManUtd

Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.

Last night was a complete ****how. No way can we challenge for titles if we can't shut-up shop against teams like Young Boys.
Report olddesperado September 16, 2021 6:02 AM BST
" that's football for you,  we learn from this and we go again ".

" we're improving year on year but we're not there yet "

" christianio was lonely on his own,  I suppose I could have moved a midfielder nearer to him "

Some nuggets from our esteemed manager Tuesday night.
Report rommel September 16, 2021 6:27 AM BST
when Ole first came in i thought his inanity was concerning,platitudes that might've pushed utd  fans buttons yep but drivel all the same,i think his thinking is a mush of not selection formation tactics....selction of subs and their timing...
Report olddesperado September 16, 2021 10:43 AM BST
The next two CL games will tell us a lot about solskaer and his philosophy on the team and improving the players available to him.

Both are at home and the rational thing would be to go like for like and give Dalot a chance to prove himself up to pushing a regressing AWB.

However his mindset is to only trust a very small core of senior players and for that reason I feel he will play lindolof out of position rather than the former which would be the best long term decision in the interest of the club going forward.

I'd even go as far as to play Dalot Sunday to give him a boost and maybe find out a bit about him and see if he has it to replace wan bissaka long term.

I just don't see ole being that brave though.
Report duffy September 16, 2021 3:07 PM BST
We must remember that all opinions on Ole's ability must be tempered by the fact that he was not appointed on the basis of his managerial ability.

The qualities that attracted the board to him were his ability to be just happy to be there and their faith in him that he'd never rock the boat, never more greatly apparent than in the recent arrival of Ronaldo which may well provide the catalyst that sounds his death knell.
Report Emitdeb September 16, 2021 3:52 PM BST
Ronaldo's not going to sit back and watch his ineptness... there were signs during the Young Boys match... imo.
Report olddesperado September 16, 2021 4:30 PM BST
There were signs I believe  Emitdeb.

I didn't actually notice it myself but I read somewhere he was up standing beside ole giving out instructions after coming off.

I sure ole will deal with it by never taking him off again.
Report rommel September 16, 2021 4:50 PM BST
if Ole just lets his managership  be smothered and strangled by the ronster he will never be employed in the game again
Report SirNorbertClarke September 17, 2021 11:29 AM BST
Can't see United beating West Ham this weekend. After Tuesday the wheels are very definitely coming off the bus and David Moyes will delight in giving them another kick.

Do the board have the guts to sack OGS and bring in a top manager a la Chelsea last season?
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 11:47 AM BST
In short no.
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 12:06 PM BST
As Duffy has often pointed out ole is meeting all the criteria the owners want.

Respected enough to keep the protests low key.
Doesn't rock the boat looking for finance to finish the team.
Keeps expectations low by saying we are building, improving, Not quiet where we want yet etc and the icing on the cake was his trophies are not important they are just for ego's
Keeps us close enough to the better teams to keep the hope up and money coming in though.

Eventually though the hope will fade and the pressure on the Glazer's will ramp up and they will say ta ra ole and start the process all over.

They've probably learned a lesson from jose and van gaal and future managers will come from the United gene pool to buy extra time before disgruntled fans reluctantly question a former favourite.
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 12:13 PM BST
As non of our former players are exactly setting the world alight in the managerial stakes I don't it would be totally mad to imagine our next manager when ole goes at the end of this season or next could be Juan Mata or Cristiano Ronaldo.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 1:11 PM BST
'Doesn't rock the boat looking for finance to finish the team.'

This is absolute nonsense. He has outspent Chelsea City and Pool since he joined. No United manager needs to go looking for money anyway, they have all been given bucketloads to spend and have spent it, more than their rivals and a lot more than is needed to challenge for the PL and CL every year.

Why would the owners want their money spent so relatively poorly when if United were winning like the others revenues would massively increase?

Arsenal fans say the same thing, even though they've outspent everyone this summer. Both owners are people who don't understand football to the extent that they don't even understand that being successful in terms of trophies massively increases revenues from all sources. It also means you don't have to pay a premium to get top players to join you.
Report olddesperado September 17, 2021 1:19 PM BST
What I meant by that was he wouldn't do a jose and demand a player e.g. a DM to finish the team and really challenge.

Ole says after every Window he's happy with his squad when every fan that's seen us play knows we need a top midfielder as a priority.

Yes he's been given money and a lot if it but that's to get top 4 and keep up revenues.

After that they don't really give a diddly squat.
Report PLACEWISE September 17, 2021 3:12 PM BST
Keep the faith with ole look at how he transformed molde  and Cardiff
Report duffy September 17, 2021 4:22 PM BST
The reason why Ole suits the Glazers is this,

When Ole was informed that he was getting Ronaldo back, his reply should have been no thanks I want Declan Rice instead which will have a better long term effect on the team and Greenwood's developement will be likely stunted by getting shifted out wide and Sancho will be inconvenienced by getting shifted across to the other side of the pitch and don't even get me started on trying to squeeze Rashford in when he's fitScared

However, Ole would have doffed his cap and said nowt.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 6:42 PM BST
Ronaldo will cost but will generate most if not all the cost in increased revenues. Also scores major points with the fanbase after the Super League. Doubt Ole didn't want him tho.

He went out and spent £73m on Sancho this summer. And he was after him last summer too for even more money. He keeps spending big on defenders or attackers and has barely touched the midfield in 3 windows. He doesn't need Sancho. Is he even better than Lingard? I've yet to see it. He will likely be another van de Beek, another player they didn't need.

The owners are mugs but won't be a problem for the right manager and Ole isn't the one. Ole should have sorted out the midfield as a priority and didn't. United are the ony team that can match or outspend all the petro clubs even when their owners are sucking money out. They don't even need to match them to compete with them if they get the right manager. The owners don't realise this tho and they could spend less and generate more revenues if they did.
Report 11kv September 17, 2021 7:10 PM BST
The whole Utd squad is not fit to clean his boots imo Ole included.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 17, 2021 9:44 PM BST
Declan Rice though.  Is he any better than Mctominay and even Matic maybe?  He's not exactly blessed with any skill is he so what's the big fuss about him?  Plays for England in a seven man defence including the keeper that's why they are so hard to beat.

Without looking at his stats what does he get three goals per season?  Wow what a player!
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:00 PM BST
If you're going to play Pogba your going to need a player like Rice in beside him. He has Kante with France and looks top class because Kante does one joband he does the other. He needs to be accommodated as he's not a complete midfielder. Rice might work but might not. But whoever you get won't be getting many goals or assists. In Rice's case there is a lot more to his game than what you see for England. He has a good engine, an eye for a long pass and could be a very good centre half too. He's not going to be your main ball playing CM and that's not what United need. They need balance with Pogba or else get rid of Pogba and get 2 new CMs to partner each other.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 17, 2021 10:03 PM BST

Do you think he's any better than Mctominay though?  Both look big strong lads, Mctominay too can get forward and probably score more goals than Rice.

I just don't see the big thing about Declan Rice I really don't.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:05 PM BST
Players like Kante don't come along very often, that's the problem with Pogba. You are talking Keane/Makelele level of DM to allow a Lampard/Scholes to flourish. Scholes and Lampard weren't great defensively, Scholes especially because he grew up as an attacker and couldn't tackle to save his life. Pogba is similar, very few players can do the defensive work of two in midfield.

Yes I think Rice is a lot better than McTominay. United might be better off without Pogba tho and build a new midfield. But he might leave for nothing and that will cost them. They have the money but wouldn't trust this manager to sort it.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 17, 2021 10:11 PM BST

Well to each his own so fair enough but for me I really don't see anything about this Declan Rice that tells me he's a good footballer.  I'd rather save the money and play Mctominay.

I agree about Pogba though, has a great game showing how good he can be about once in four or five matches.  The other games he's no better than a bloke on a Sunday morning down at the park who's half decent.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:11 PM BST
A lot better for the role needed I mean. I think there's a lot more to Rice but he's largely on a leash with West Ham and even moreso with England. McTominay would prob get more goals and be better in attack but Rice would never be the dominant attacking midfielder in a partnership at a top club. Neither would McTominay but Rice would be better beside a top class attacking midfielder in a partnership as the defensive midfielder imo
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:21 PM BST
If you look at City, Pool and Chelsea, which is where United want to get to, they all have a top notch DM Fernandinho, Fabinho and Kante. They allow the other midfielders to flourish. United don't have that. Nearly every team who has won the PL has had that type of player. I'd say Arsenal didn't cos petit and vieira could do a bit of both and weren't all out DMs. Can't think of any other team if you go back thru all the winners since the early 90's. You could argue Rodri isn't.
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:24 PM BST
to be fair Lurka I think the game has changed a bit along the way, I suspect Keane would take great exception to being labelled a defensive Midfielder and he's he be very entitled to..

like Petit and Viera he was box to box as required just as someone like Souness was for Liverpool..
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:24 PM BST
excuse typing Blush
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:30 PM BST
Keane was box to box and an all round midfielder. But not when he played beside Scholes. A lot more to Keane than being a DM, his early  United career showed that. But with Scholes he had to do the defensive work of two in terms of protecting the defence and breaking up attacks. Scholes was a 9/10 his whole career until very late. He was never going to be top class defensively or positionally in midfield and Keane accommodated him
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:34 PM BST
It was always the English player who got all the plaudits. It was Lampard, Gerrard and Scholes with litte regard to the guy in beside him who was just as important (Keane/Makelele/Xavi Alonso). As I keep saying, central midfield is a partnership, never about one player. Even Xavi and Iniesta are revered and busquets forgotten. When England tried to shoehorn Lampard/Gerrard/Scholes/Beckham into their midfield it never worked, despite it being a golden generation.
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:36 PM BST
agree to a point but both Giggs and Beckham especially worked their bits of when they were on the field as a 4 and allied to Utd's often inevitable dominance of games in that era it wasn't unusual to see Keane in the opposition box and getting on the end of stuff even with Scholes in the I say I genuinely think the game has changed in terms of responsibilities...Neville would often get covered by Beckham for example in that 4-4-2...
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:37 PM BST
yep, well re Eng Sven was ridiculously reluctant to find balance in fear of upsetting the big names/media...
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:48 PM BST
You are right about the game changing tho. The top 3 managers all play some form of this 'juega de posición' football, it translates as 'positional play'. Google it, it's very complicated but involves every player knowing where they should be and where they should play the ball. Supposedly Arteta is a disciple of it too but I've yet to see it other than the robotic football he tries to play. But they still all have a designated DM disruptor in midfield, that hasn't changed. Klopp is different to the other two because his midfield creates very little and it's all from the full-backs.

And they all have a very functional midfield. United don't and you have to wonder about the manager at this stage in regard to that. This new type of football is conducive to picking up 90+ points in a season and no othr managers are going to get near that imo. I find it a bit boring and based upon rehearsed routines of play rather than individuality of players.
Report lurka September 17, 2021 10:53 PM BST
routines eg City creating an overload of 3 on 2 out wide and getting a man around the back of the defence and cutting it back for a tap in for a striker or midfielder arriving late. Or de Bruyne with the ball out wide and crosses it between the defence and keeper. Before his foot hits the ball the striker and wide far post attacker are already making their runs towards the 6 yard box because they know where the ball is going. City have done either of these routines at least 200 times in the last 3-4 years. They practice them hundreds of times a week I'd say.
Report brentford September 17, 2021 10:56 PM BST
United seem to have a balance problem regardless of Solskjaer who I don't rate as a manager  and is at least partially responsible for the problem...

spent last season playing two holding mf's when Wan Bissaka is just not a modern fullback (very decent defensively, still think he's more a cb or right of a 3 personally) meaning you lack attacking trying to play Le Pog as a conventional mf when his work rate isn't high enough in a Utd shirt at least for that interested to know from you or others how Juve got the best out of him..
Report lurka September 17, 2021 11:03 PM BST
Don't know much about him at Juve but I think he played on the left of a midfield 3 there when they got to the CL final. OGS actually stuck him out left in a similar role towards the end of last season and that's when he started playing really well for united
Report brentford September 17, 2021 11:09 PM BST
starts to become an issue of how many work shirkers can a team afford though...Ronaldo, Pogba both going to so need to produce pretty special output..psg the other night though will probably improve were being matched by Brugge purely because of work rate..

(apologies to Utd regulars for interjecting in your thread btw but trying to do so respectfully at least)
Report rommel September 18, 2021 12:08 AM BST
what do you lot think when CR really slows up and cant find that edge even in the box and it might come fast(we all know hes an absolute paragon of fitness ),therell be  a game when it all comes to a head
Report brentford September 18, 2021 12:19 AM BST
he'll be alright this season though rommel no ?

don't get me wrong - does feel a potentially 'dangerous' signing for Ole but probably not on his production ?
Report rommel September 18, 2021 12:34 AM BST
brent-think everyones different,might hit him like a brick or be over a few/many months
Report brentford September 18, 2021 12:39 AM BST
yep, maybe...feel a bit sorry for Cavnani - hadn't realised how good he was until seeing him regularly...great attitude, great movement, classy finisher, backs his team mates in any aggro without being silly..been under utilised for most part and difficult to see how he gets any meaningful playing time now...
Report duffy September 18, 2021 6:50 AM BST
LOU MACARIS TARTAN B 17 Sep 21 21:11 

Well to each his own so fair enough but for me I really don't see anything about this Declan Rice that tells me he's a good footballer.  I'd rather save the money and play Mctominay.

We don't need Rice instead of Mctominay, we need him as well as Mctominay, those two with another 4 attacking players in front of them could feel comfortable that they are protected, Mctominay and Rice are also very mobile and quite able to carry the ball and join in with attacks and get beyond the ball themselves.

Forget Pogba though, he's running his contract down and good riddance, flashes quality at times, 7 assists already this season but he'll let us down for sure and in the big games when the pressure is turned up in midfield is the times he needs babysitting the most...he's had too many chances so the quicker the Pogba soap opera comes to an end the better.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 7:41 AM BST

And yet many say "We don't need two 'holding' midfielders which Mctominay and Rice are so no matter what OGS does he can't win surely?

Even ex players like Scholes, Neville, Rio say that and yet some would say play two whether it be Mctominay and Rice or Matic and even Fred at a push.

What's that saying ......... "You can please some of the people all of the time OR ..........."

PS:  I watched Bayern play away from home in an important game against Barca and they pretty much had all eleven players playing in Barca's half.  They cross a ball and there's four or five of them in the middle.  Barca never really had a shot and at The Nou Camp.  Now that's the way to do it.
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 8:59 AM BST
A team is built from the back. Look at Puyol, Vidic, Ramos etc. We don't yet have a centre back pairing that inspires confidence. When other teams attack we look vulnerable. That is especially true against the top teams we need to beat to win silverware.

We couldn't even shut up shop against Young Boys ffs.

Whenever United are odds-on against a team even remotely capable causing an upset I am going to lay them starting with West Ham.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B September 18, 2021 9:13 AM BST
You see now here's a fan blaming the defence.  So if OGS were to buy Rice he would be saying "It's the defence we need sorting out Olly"

See what I mean "You can please some of the people" ...................
Report SirNorbertClarke September 18, 2021 9:24 AM BST
I am not blaming just the defence. The club and the manager should have bought reliable centre backs, the coaches should have drilled discipline into the defence.

How many players has the manager and coaching staff improved?

We have just bought one of Europe's most exciting ring wingers and we are playing him on the left. Surprise surprise he is struggling.
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