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14 Jul 18 20:07
Date Joined: 12 Mar 02
| Topic/replies: 34,315 | Blogger: peter the butcher's blog
How it used to be Love

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Report REDUNDANT PUNTER September 29, 2020 11:53 AM BST
I just think it’s too simplistic to say the players aren’t good enough in the first instance why is one of the biggest clubs in world football signing such players and why are they not improving them or getting the best out of them

So for me recruitment coaching tactics and motivation are all very much part of the problem the players are or were all international class at full,or junior levels and yes as unsay it’s not the managers fault that the individuals you mention make those errors

But it is his and his staff fault that they can’t keep possession for more than three passes can’t press teams look lethargic  and only seem to perform in short bursts.

The players signed were top players at the clubs they were signed from and a lot were signed at a premium  in all honesty the two games I’ve witnessed I’d say three points probably flatters them and in all honesty the opposition are not regarded as the so called top teams

I just think given their levels of ability these players could produce better performance than the have and currently are doing anyway who knows it’s a long season ahead and maybe it will all come good
Report olddesperado October 2, 2020 10:01 PM BST
Agree with that RP.
Something just not right there.
Report olddesperado October 2, 2020 10:18 PM BST
In my opinion our best defender and I said the same this time last year.
Fairly solid , good in the air, attacks the ball and is strong.
Might not be the best distributer but not much worse than the two clowns we currently have that are supposedly excellent on the ball.
It's mad we are trying to push him out because we can get 10 or 15 million for him.

Which brings me to Jones.
Whoever thought it a good idea to give this guy a 4 year contract last year needs locking up.
25 million in wages to a player who won't play as many games as millions he take off us during the length of the contract.
Useless and injury prone ,  just the type Woodward loves to reward.

I like him.
There's always a mistake not far away but no more than our first choice pair and his mistakes come from trying to win the ball early unlike the others who are afraid to commit.
His ability to win the ball early and distribute it well give us more goals than his freshness cost us imo.
Fitness wise he's a basket case unfortunately.


Is he ever fit.
I think I've only ever seen him play 3 times.
Report olddesperado October 2, 2020 10:35 PM BST

The worst permenant central defender I think we've ever had.
We have had worse play for us but not first choice.

He's slow , weak in the air,  weak on the ground, weak in the challenge,  weak mentally,
weak concentration, and a coward on and off the ball.
For someone that's meant to be good on the ball his only play is 10 yards to the side to the equally passing impotent AWB.

I like bailly,  brave , will do anything to win the ball and has crucial pace which we lack.
Fitness an issue but when he is fit it's a black mark against ole that he can't see he's better than anything else we have available.

He ok,   decent in most aspects of the job but excellent in none.
His ball playing is no where near it's made out to be and his usual play is to take the ball out to near half way before passing sideways to lindolof who plays it sideways to AWB who plays it back to the keeper to start the process all over.

I'd imagine he would look much better with a proper partner beside him though.
Report the_don October 3, 2020 1:16 PM BST
For what it's worth, my opinion on the centre backs. Jones and Smalling (and Jonny Evans) all looked reasonably good when paired with Vidic or Rio (10+years ago!). Without either of those they looked well below standard. Thought Evans had enough time to prove himself, Jones and Smalling the same - the chance has been and gone.

Rojo and Bailly spend too much time on the floor for me, or flying into challenges. Never see top centre backs doing this. Leads to free kicks, red cards and of course injuries. Bailly is probably the best we have if he cut down on flying into challenges and thus stayed fit more regularly. He has pace and strength that others dont.

Tuanzebe is unproven and we won't know until he's fit and has a good run of games. Teden Mengi is another promising one but one for the future hopefully.

Lindelof and Maguire, can understand them being given games to form a partnership, especially while Bailly and Tuanzebe were injured. Think they are alright defending deeper with bodies around them but both too easily exposed when pressing higher or chasing the game as we seem to be doing recently. Maguire better for me as he steps in a lot to stop attacks, Lindelof is too passive and not strong enough for my liking.

Keep going Olddesp (and Lou!)
Report duffy October 3, 2020 9:46 PM BST
Bailly was good when he arrived but Mourinho destroyed his confidence and he's never recovered, he now is also injury prone.

Anyway, looks like the Sancho deal is dead in the water and they are instead trying to appease the fans with a glory name of yesteryear in Cavani, having said that he's always been class and it's a position that needs addressing, if he can teach Rashford and Martial how to put the ball in the back of the net in the crucial games when chances are limited then that's a positive.
Report duffy October 3, 2020 9:48 PM BST
Maguire is a boat.
Report Capt__F October 3, 2020 11:26 PM BST
slow boat
Report duffy October 4, 2020 12:04 AM BST
Yep, that's what it meansWink
Report jedi sophie October 4, 2020 1:02 AM BST
Man U getting desperate now, anyone will do... anyone...ExcitedLaugh
Report jedi sophie October 4, 2020 1:03 AM BST
How the mighty have fallen?

Tough game tomorrow too when Spurs come and shut shop.ExcitedLaugh
Report duffy October 4, 2020 4:47 PM BST
Spurs not even bothering to sit back nowCrazy
Report Charlton2005 October 4, 2020 5:02 PM BST
mean just cannot stop it.
Report Charlton2005 October 4, 2020 5:03 PM BST
wonder where that know it call pandorica is these days

Report duffy October 4, 2020 5:08 PM BST
Worst half of footall from United in years....where's the coaching????
Report jollyswagman October 4, 2020 5:09 PM BST
duffy, with covid cases up maybe the season should be cancelled? Laugh
Report Charlton2005 October 4, 2020 5:15 PM BST
An unwanted record...
Manchester United 1-4 Tottenham
Manchester United have conceded four goals in the first half of a Premier League game for the first time.

mean reversion

anyone over 40 will most likely never see united win the league again
Report jedi sophie October 4, 2020 5:15 PM BST
Not a clue....ExcitedHappyGrin
Report duffy October 4, 2020 5:17 PM BST
jollyswagman 04 Oct 20 17:09 
duffy, with covid cases up maybe the season should be cancelled? Laugh

Hope not, on points per game we would be relegatedShocked
Report number 7 October 4, 2020 5:17 PM BST
what will ollie say to them at half time
Report rommel October 4, 2020 5:20 PM BST
Ole go back to norway,buy a fishing rod,get involved in your local scout group,join a choir,take uo the flute....
Report moisok October 4, 2020 5:24 PM BST
bettors have to adjust their approach to games involving utd -  when fergy was around it was very very different - too many other teams are switched on these days
Report moisok October 4, 2020 5:28 PM BST
patrice evra  totally psihed off !!   on sky - says none of them deserve to be there - sorry times for ex player and fans
Report jollyswagman October 4, 2020 5:29 PM BST
too early for any season at all duffy Happy

if one sent off thn both should have been off. if stuffed manager may be sacked so good if you want him gone...

dont want to clutter your thread as i think you will be getting lots of visitors, good luck.
Report keeping silent October 4, 2020 5:44 PM BST
Those 7/1 ante post vouchers .
Report pushkin99 October 4, 2020 5:45 PM BST
This thread, as was ours, used to be full of posts from the like of the fabricator - AKA PTB - and Anx, dripping with your famed gloating smirking schadenfreude.

Strange is it not, that your gloaters have now run away crying with their tails firmly between their legs?
Report Loanwolf October 4, 2020 6:08 PM BST
Utd fans should not be too despondent about today's  debacle against Tottenham.OK the Premier league title challenge is over after just 3 games  but there is still the EFL  cup to play  for.Game on
Report REDROB October 4, 2020 6:14 PM BST
Just got to hope that relegation places dont come down to goal diff' Grin
Report Charlton2005 October 4, 2020 6:17 PM BST
Report REDROB October 4, 2020 6:19 PM BST
But I have seen them win 15 of those pots Charlton, so mustn't be greedy if I dont see another.
Report pushkin99 October 4, 2020 6:20 PM BST
Cabbage stump "Hole's" bum well and truly spanked tonite.

I wonder what the little cherub will be claiming tonite to his lords and masters?

Maybe the classic "We are only 30 miles from greatness" as he pleads for his job??????

No doubt the fabricator will soon come running along to defend Hole and explain it all away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Report Charlton2005 October 4, 2020 6:22 PM BST
mean reversion

most still don't seem to know what this means

it means if you have fergie it doesn't matter what your transfer policies are, nor the budget, nor the players

and without fergie, none of those things matter either

so stop with the  "we should have done this" or "we should have done that"

it doesnt matter. you are finished. end of story

that is what mean reversion means.
Report rothko October 4, 2020 6:24 PM BST
Ole doing a great job -  youse just dont know a top manager if you saw one

just needs more time - 2 signings coming in and challenging for the PL is a certainty
Report Charlton2005 October 4, 2020 6:25 PM BST

One of the few who understand and have their heads screwed on right

good luck
Report REDROB October 4, 2020 6:34 PM BST
cheers, you too.
Report 11kv October 4, 2020 6:36 PM BST
1-6 LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report duffy October 4, 2020 8:53 PM BST
On the optimistic side, if Villa can get to 8 we'd have closed the gap on Liverpool todayGrin
Report TheBetterBettor October 4, 2020 9:22 PM BST
no more bleating from the charlton and the saints fan?
Report scandanavian_haven October 4, 2020 9:44 PM BST
talking about Liverpool fans shooting their load to early, laughing at man united conceding 6 with 10 men, they then go and conceded 7 with 11 men Laugh
Report the_don October 4, 2020 10:25 PM BST
Martial will be out for 3 games. Cavani to start straight away unless a) he's not fit enough or b) has changed his mind and has retired early.

Definitely a good weekend for the London teams and not the Northerners (bar Everton) Plain
Report 11kv October 4, 2020 10:29 PM BST
7-2 LaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaughLaugh
Report elise October 4, 2020 11:04 PM BST
how poor was maguire again? he's looking like a total waste of money, lost count of the times he was done, not sure how he's even on the team sheet
Report elise October 4, 2020 11:05 PM BST
just realised kane has actually spent most of the game closer to the utd goal than harry
Report pushkin99 October 4, 2020 11:06 PM BST
I hope thebitterbighter enjoyed Ed removing his mask tonite as much as we all did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report pushkin99 October 4, 2020 11:07 PM BST
U were caned tonite for sure HappyHappyHappyHappy
Report pushkin99 October 4, 2020 11:17 PM BST
unlucky thebitterbighter.

Shearer is right. If Brighton had scored a couple more, rather than hitting the woodwork 5 times (yes FIVE) yuse would be deep in relegation trouble.
Report elise October 4, 2020 11:18 PM BST
i was of the view that they might have turned the corner back end of last season, thought with some more investment and a clear out they might progress, but they seem to have lost the plot again, looks to be no plan at all, dreadful, ole must be running on borrowed time now
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 5, 2020 8:13 AM BST
Well, imagine a couple of years ago. This page would have been utterly brilliant after a night like that!

Anyway, how's about we all forget it happened and focus on the much more important internationals coming up.
Report Aspro October 5, 2020 11:42 AM BST

Oct 4, 2020 -- 11:04PM, elise wrote:

how poor was maguire again? he's looking like a total waste of money, lost count of the times he was done, not sure how he's even on the team sheet

Maguire is just one of the players who cannot cope with the higher expectations at a bigger club. We all get them.

Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 12:12 PM BST
Absolutely all of our signings turn to sh1t.

Even Neil Ashton who we got from Sunday suppliment as head of PR has failed to live up to expectations.

He better make Ed come out of this looking good or he will be joining ole out the door in the not too distant future.
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 12:18 PM BST
The worst thing about yesterday was the Liverpool result.

It takes the real bad look off our own humiliation and will give the hierarchy a feeling that results like that can happen.

Liverpool's was a blip,  ours was coming for a while with tiredness and not ready used to excuse performances.
Report duffy October 5, 2020 4:33 PM BST
[i]olddesperado 05 Oct 20 12:18 
The worst thing about yesterday was the Liverpool result.

It takes the real bad look off our own humiliation and will give the hierarchy a feeling that results like that can happen.

Nail on's as if Klopp's team talk went something like, "look boys, Ole is on the brink up the road and we don't want him getting the boot so we're going to have to take the sting out of it for him and chuck one!!!Grin
Report jollyswagman October 5, 2020 4:54 PM BST
i told you duffy, start campaigning for the season to be cancelled Wink

your captain is rubbish but because so much money was spent on him he will be with you for some time Plain
Report elise October 5, 2020 5:13 PM BST
i don't think all utd sigings go bad but they have tended to overpay for some players and that's probably because other clubs see them as desperate, i think the defence were a shambles again but i'd also wonder exactly what the midfield contributed especially when they didn't have the ball, don't think any of them played like they wanted to fight for it
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 5, 2020 5:15 PM BST
Pogba seems to be getting away with things massively for a while now. Been garbage for a long, long time. No more tales of him wanting to leave are simply down to no-one wanting him any more.
Report elise October 5, 2020 5:15 PM BST
lpool were shoite too mind, ball went behind their line on almost every attack, looked like they were glued to the pitch
Report elise October 5, 2020 5:16 PM BST
yes apart from being in the picture when the sending off happened he was invisible
Report PorcupineorPineapple October 5, 2020 5:16 PM BST
You were far better at the start of post-lockdown when it was McTominay and Fred with Fernandes in front of them. Looked decent then and Pogba returned on the bench. Somehow he's become an automatic pick again despite being toilet.
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 5:50 PM BST
Yep agree with that porky,

It's the myth of Pogba,
He has somehow managed to to convince a lot of people he is world class and his dire performance s just don't seem to register with a lot of people.

It's like the old saying
" if you have a name for getting up early you can stay in bed all day "
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 5:53 PM BST
Big rumours of a fight at half time between Bruno and matic.
Report duffy October 5, 2020 6:08 PM BST
I'd normally go for Matic in a straight fight between him and Bruno, but as he has appeared to be arthritic for these past years I wouldn't like to call it.
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 8:01 PM BST
Trust ole to take off the only players with any fight in them.
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 8:08 PM BST
Bruno really looks like he cares and isn't afraid to call out his team mates.

I can see him wanting out next may.

He just doesn't seem like the type to put up with our bunch of weaklings around him.
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 8:38 PM BST
The telles deal is done.

I know nothing about him except he's 28 and got one cap for Brazil in a friendly.

But we've been tracking him for ages ...  apparently.
Report elise October 5, 2020 8:41 PM BST
these players they are chasing, they look like the sort of signing west ham would make not man utd
Report jedi sophie October 5, 2020 8:45 PM BST
So Telles in.
Smalling out.

Similar fees.

I'd argue Smalling is actually what you need. At worst the 2nd best CH at club.


Also Cavani at his age to add to the other ageing CF Ighalo.

Report jedi sophie October 5, 2020 8:46 PM BST
Manchester United were talking about here.

Act like a mid table club,play like one, end up like one...
Report olddesperado October 5, 2020 9:36 PM BST
Aye,  that's what we have become.

10 week transfer widow ,

We spend 9 weeks and 5 days negotiating for one player to no avail and then two days throwing offers at anyone that still has a pulse and once kicked a ball.

It's a recurring theme in transfer windows.

Woodward has no shame or self awareness.
Report Capt__F October 5, 2020 9:40 PM BST
decent move for cavani @ 33 free nice big wedge to sign

what cd go wrong ?

needs a decent haircut makes pogba decent in the barnet stakes
Report Hank Hill October 5, 2020 10:05 PM BST
I agree with Jedi - what do you think Man U fans about Smalling going? considering what you paid for Maguire and what you just received for Smalling I'd say you're not doing the greatest business.
Report the_don October 5, 2020 10:38 PM BST
Smalling had 8 years and didn't cement his place but a reasonable few months at Roma means he's what we need again? Sorry, but no. I'll credit him that he's pushed for a release rather than sitting on a wage with little hope of playing, unlike others.

Already mentioned that as poor as the defence is, it's not getting much help. Asked to play against their strengths (defending big areas of space) and receiving little help from ahead of them.

See Pogba for Aurier's goal yesterday. No defensive awareness or responsibility. But he can't be justified playing further forward as he doesn't contribute enough there either. How/why is he playing? What does he bring to the team? No idea.

Still, we've bought some players so it's all ok.
Report jedi sophie October 5, 2020 11:01 PM BST
If you seriously think Lindelof is a better Centre Half than Smalling then good luck to you Don.

I made my mind up on Lindelof after about 2 games....

Never up to this class. Never will be, absolute powder puff.

Your defense is always protected by Matic, sometimes one other, teams nowadays dont even play a defensive midfielder but you do.

None of your defenders have any pace, big big problem in 2020....
Report hello :-) October 6, 2020 12:01 AM BST
4 last minute signings , panic buying at its finest

popcorn time Happy
Report sofaking October 6, 2020 12:46 AM BST
"Lads, it's Tottenham".   Wonder was that Ole's team talk before Sunday's game. Crazy
Report olddesperado October 6, 2020 6:25 AM BST
Just been reading up on our signings, 

Pellestri has played 12 times for his Uruguay club.

Diallo is African and has played 3 times for Atalanta last season notching up 30 mins in total.

He was also included in one of their CL squads on his CV.

37.5 million for him. Shocked
Report the_don October 6, 2020 7:35 AM BST
Jedi Sophie - I agree with most of that but remember those 2 pacy centre backs Huth and Wes Morgan from not that long ago, seemed to do ok one season in particular.

If you buy a certain type of defender (or player) then play to their strengths. Ironically Smalling (and others) would look much better sitting deep and us counter attacking - a tactic that has worked well for us recently at times.

It's not a solution 75% of the time though when opposition also sit deep, plus there are 'expectations' that Man Utd should dominate possession, pile players forward etc etc. Lindelof was bought as a ball playing centre back, he hasn't succeeded, but apart from a couple (van Dijk, maybe Laporte) which centre back has in the last 3 or 4 years?
Report olddesperado October 6, 2020 9:23 AM BST
There's a pretty good article in the MEN today by Samuel luckhurst in which he claims Judge was contacting agencies in the last few days seeking recommendations for players as the panic set in.

It's a pretty serious claim to make so I'd expect they have proof and it's true.

Truly shocking.
Report elise October 6, 2020 10:02 AM BST
might hint at cash flow issues, certainly doesn't give the impression they have the cash to buy the best but if they do that they don't want to let this manager spend it
Report olddesperado October 6, 2020 1:49 PM BST
Might hint more at total incompetence.
Report olddesperado October 6, 2020 1:55 PM BST
Last summer we were told all targets would be identified early,  scouted intensely and his back round and character checked before proceeding.

This summer we're ringing round agencies like a busy small builder looking for a brickie.

Jesus wept.
Report the_don October 14, 2020 9:19 PM BST
Harry continuing his current run of form tonight, is he banned for our next 3 games now?
Report Capt__F October 14, 2020 10:56 PM BST
back in court soon

mind u he innocent
Report olddesperado October 15, 2020 9:11 PM BST
No don,   only banned for England games.
Report sofaking October 15, 2020 9:25 PM BST

Oct 15, 2020 -- 9:11PM, olddesperado wrote:

No don,

Report sofaking October 15, 2020 9:26 PM BST
Probably most Man U fans are disappointed that he's not banned for domestica games too?
Report sofaking October 15, 2020 9:26 PM BST
Report the_don October 17, 2020 10:59 PM BST
Better than getting beaten 6-1. Nobody was great, nobody poor either but thought Newcastle missed a chance and were really disappointing. Think Mbappe and co will test us a bit more......

Surely now van de Beek deserves a start or 2. In contrast to  Pogba, he never takes the extra touch or holds on to it for too long. If only Mata was 5 years younger as these 2 look a class above on the ball.
Report LOU MACARIS TARTAN B October 18, 2020 1:05 AM BST
Mata would also need to be three inches taller and 20% quicker.
Report the_don October 18, 2020 10:45 AM BST
Forget height, Messi, Iniesta, David Silva etc didn't do too badly. He obviously won't start the majority of games but his brain is faster than any of the players and he can be useful in certain situations. Only 6 games and not much competition but he's probably been our best player so far.
Report olddesperado October 18, 2020 11:24 AM BST
Mata has been with us 6 years without really pulling up any tree's.

Can be quiet good at times and then look like he's about 40 for other games,

What yesterday did show us again is the need to play two of Fred,matic or mctom together to protect the back and give us a semblance of control in midfield.

The problem then is it only leaves 4 places for Pogba,  Bruno, Donny vb, Mata,Radford,, martial, Greenwood and cavani.

8 into 4 will leave some unhappy players.
Report olddesperado October 18, 2020 11:29 AM BST
I'm pretty certain ole will shoehorn Pogba into the side Tuesday so as not to disappoint him in France but it's just not the type of game for him where we won't have much of the ball and have to do a lot of running and tracking back.

It will be a difficult evening for the others if he plays.
Report the_don October 18, 2020 11:36 AM BST
I agree, with Mata it's picking the right games. Basically, lots of possession - ideal for his qualities. Playing on the break - not suitable.

Definitely 2 of those 3 in midfield need to play - have thought that for a while. The other 4 out of 8 will just have to rotate. I personally would play 3 midfielders (2 of those 3 and either van de BeekExcited or PogbaWhoops) and then Bruno plus 2 others ahead of that. Bruno plus 3 other attackers is too much.

Also, Rashford played well in moments yesterday but all from wider or running from deeper. Nothing from a centre forward position. Did a job but get him away from there as soon as others are back or available.
Report olddesperado October 18, 2020 11:36 AM BST
On a side note has anyone ever seen Pogba sprint ?

For one of our goals yesterday I think it was bruno,s he could be seen jogging into the edge of the area while Bruno was busting a gut to catch rashford and go outside him for the pass.

Pogba was central and could have run in to give him an option but just jogged forward.

Just thinking about this I don't remember his sprinting back after players either ,  He joggs to cover but if the player turns on the afterburners he stops and points to others.
Report the_don October 18, 2020 11:44 AM BST
I would say he very rarely sprints. He made ground once last night to get into the box for a cross which he should do more often. Going backwards I would say I can't remember him busting a gut which plays a part in fans thinking he's not that arsed.
Report olddesperado October 18, 2020 11:44 AM BST
Yep I'd agree with most of that don.

Pogba has had a lot of goes , even in a three so Donny and Bruno for me.

The two up front would probably have to be teased out as you could make a case for all 4 really.

Trial and error for a while.

It would leave us very short of width though so awb  and Shaw or telles would need to up their game going forward.
Report olddesperado October 19, 2020 9:40 PM BST
Maguire,   bailly, Greenwood ,cavani and lingard out tomorrow night.

Lindolof our only fit centre half  Scared
Report olddesperado October 19, 2020 9:44 PM BST
We could try protect him by going 5 at the back,

Something like

Williams AWB lindolof Shaw telles
  Mctom    matic    Fred
Report olddesperado October 19, 2020 9:46 PM BST
Having said that I think he will squeez Pogba in somewhere.
Report pushkin99 October 20, 2020 3:18 PM BST
Take the blinkers off for once olddesperado. To suggest that Pickford's assault on VVD was anything else is just plain wrong.

Can't u put local rivalries aside for once? VAR was not the problem here, but it's non application which is ruining the game we love, or used to.
Report the_don October 20, 2020 10:03 PM BST
Really good win and performance too, thought we were going to regret missed chances and openings til that winner. Tuanzebe looked great for his first game in months - can he stay fit? Thought Fred was really good defensively and when he won the ball. Top start to the group but it's still just 1 game.

PSG were wide open, can't remember any game in any competition where our players have had so much space - a more clinical team would have put 5 or 6 past them. Mbappe is always a danger, Neymar is just a waster and I'm glad the referee got wise to him very quickly.
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