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Michael Oliver
Michael Oliver
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Replies: 78
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I'm not sure the guy would've scored anyway. The ball was too low and close to his body to head it, and he wasn't in a position to get a foot or even a knee to it. It was a clumsy and unnecessary challenge that gave the ref an excuse to give it. I suppose Italain defenders are used to getting away with challenges like that.
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it doesn't have to be enough contact to knock him over if it's enough to put him off scoring a point blank header, which it was imo. The defender was powerless to stop him heading it unless he put him off and bought himself enough time to get to the ball. It's ok to put a guy off if you're making a legit challenge for the ball but where you're nowhere near the ball it's a clear foul to do that
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We see too much snide pushing/holding/pulling in the penalty area but then we see too much diving too. Who'd be a referee lol.
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basically UEFA had an Italian team, a German team, an English team and desperately needed a Spanish team to go through otherwise they would have lost an enormous financial market.
ref was probably under orders to make sure madrid got through. |
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doesn't matter, he could have headed it and missed and it looked like he was about to head it. He was nudged in the back off the ball and the opportunity was taken from him. That's a foul
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Who wants to watch a sport where the outcome is decided on who feigns injury/ dives better or blows over screaming penalty when the wind gets up. One of the reasons I stopped betting on football, no amount of analysis can factor this into account and it happens over and over in every league in the world and ruins it as a spectacle. If you applied the letter of the law literally , half of all corners would end in penalties with all the jostling going on.. refs need to use common sense and a debatable foul in the last minute where the striker didnt look like scoring is ridiculous.
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nudged in the back LOL.
His hands barely made contact, you could see as soon as Vasquez felt something he flung himself to the floor. Never a penalty. |
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I think we all know the rules have gone soft, Mike Dein a couple of seasons back was giving pens for very soft contact or pull of a shirt, he was setting records in his first half dozen games or so I remember, so many replays shown some given and panellists agreeing with decision and others not given which look almost identical and panellists agreeing with decisions, it has become almost a non contact area as we,ve seen so many soft ones given. Mes, you,l be down to one hand barely touched him by the end of the thread
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isn't rugby the game where ya can purposely put yer hands on your opponents?
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Seen it from various angles, not 1 showed any force whatsoever, player simply felt contact on his back, the ball was gone, so he fell down no doubt, end of thread.
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if it was 10 yds farther out and a few men between him and the goal and the same challenge was made,ie like every corner would he have give a pen, not a chance
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how various mes, keep clutching at them straws
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go back to your arsenal box jon lol, more than 2 years since I wound you up and I'm still in your head, move on.
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so if jack wheelchair is in same position in semi second leg v a madrid nicely poised at 0-0 after 0-0 in first leg, same thing happens i take it you will shout from your bedsit in cockneyland ' play on , never a pen' ?
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At least I can spell the place I come from you silly tart
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I think mes is right.
The kid vazquez chickens out of the diving header. He goes down for the pen. THe cowards way out. What Nat Lofthouse or Tommy Lawton would make of that is anyones business. What I dont get is why refs choose the last minute of these games to give these daft decisions? Maybe Oliver was indeed knackered and couldnt be bothered with extras |
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Or maybe the ref just thought it was penalty and that was that.Time we abided by the ref's decision regardless or we have no games.
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Amen treetop.
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OR
We could realise its 2018 and use a thousand different angles to see whether his 1 angle was correct and learn not to be so submissive to authority when reality tells us he is just as likely to affected by external factors when making decisions, from the home crowd, UEFA, friends that gamble. |
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The goal should be to take the human out of the decision making process altogether, so there's no need for the "bad" ones you get to balance out over the course of the season. Everything judged in exactly the same terms. Given the quality of cameras and the introduction of sensors on the ball/player clothing, we can't be that far away from it being possible to use a neural network to train a system to at least perform as well as the current crop of referees? I'd be amazed if someone's not already working on it.
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when RM put BM out in the q/f last year there was this ridiculous red card for vidal in the bernabeu at a crucial time in the tie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7W17lEQqJI and RM scored 2 offside goals its sort of what happens there! |
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That penalty is pretty much as clear as you'll get. They are virtually always a matter of opinion but the defender has bundled into the back of him when he's in front of goal. Might as well do away with penalties completely if you're going to say that isn't one.
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initially i thought the defender had bundled him but the contact is actually minimal if you watch carefully on the replay and within 'normal' limits for allowed contact, its the 'normal' limits that is key here or the game becomes a non contact sport, i've seen lots of worse cases this weekend not given (some overturned by VAR)
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rather apt that this comes at the end of a season when reffs,pundits,players,ex players,fans plenty on here have been squealing that just because theres contact doesn't make it a foul,using this seasons barometer no way was that contact enough for the striker to go down
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Maradona: It wasn't a penalty, but Vazquez did what I would have done
what a load of nonsense, maradona would have buried it before benatia got there! |
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Think Maradonna would have punched it in with the help of God of course.
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Getting nudged in the back (more than a nudge imo anyway) when you are about to chest the ball is clearly going to have an impact on your ability to keep control of the ball. Therefore it's a penalty. I would have thought anyone who has played football would understand that. Whether he has to go down or not is irrelevant.
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but thats good modern day defending, if you've played the game, as you suggest, surely you would realise this, so many players miss narrowly when heading the ball due to these subtle nudges, it doesnt take much, but its not a penalty even though he might have scored otherwise, benatia is a top defender because he knows how much he can get away with, the reports from neutral (non-english) refs suggest it was a harsh decision, i think that backs up my impression but everyone will have their view and clearly macmanaman thought it was a pen in the vt
VAR will come in to the CLsoon because of situations like this, no one wants it but in knock out competitions these calls are too critical |
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Maradonna backing me up, end of thread.
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you can nudge a guy when making a legit challenge for the ball. Here the nudge was off the ball. that's the difference. People talking about enough contact to go down really don't have a clue
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most common phrase used by tv pundits you cant always win the ball but do enough to put him under pressure, never a penalty in 6 million years if it was a slight push of a corner
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Rider, you've basically confirmed it's a penalty. 'He might have scored otherwise' says he was impeded by a nudge/push in the back. That's a penalty. The fact that you sometimes get away with it is irrelevant. As Lurka says, quite clearly it's different when it's a challenge with both players going up together and there is a bit of contact. Sometime that's unavoidable. In this case the attacker is about to control the ball when the defender goes into the back of him. Even Buffon knew it was a penalty. His complaints were that the ref 'didn't have a heart', not that he had got it wrong. Utter nonsense.
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same reff not only didn't give carroll a pen for a push tonight but disallowed the goal because of a handball caused by the push
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yes its the lack of consistency that is the issue, we can all be jobsworths and say technically its a pen but then you would have penalties at every corner etc, of course benatia makes contact and of course thats intended to put vazquez off, but its within the normal limits of tolerance, as i said the neutral ex referees described it as 'harsh', privately oliver would probably admit that the immense pressure of the bernabeu got to him in that moment (as it has for so many referees before) and if he wasnt consistent with himself in last nights game, then its case proven.
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I just think the pendulum has swung too far the way of the forward players.
Time was the likes of marco van basten got kicked out of the game. Now the forwards are diving without even trying to score. Look I can see why oliver gave that pen, even tho i disagree with the decision. For me there was more simulation from vazquez than foul from benatia. Maybe the score needs to be evened up. If a forward goes down in the box and appeals for a pen then the ref must be mandated to give a yellow card for diving or the spot kick. At the moment penalties have about a 75% conversion rate. Perhaps if the keeper was allowed to come off the line as soon as the ref blew the whistle that would swing the balance in the keepers favour a bit more. If the conversion rate dropped to about 50% then there wouldnt be so much of a fuss. But I still do not get why refs feel the need to give soft pens, and that one was at best soft, in the dying minutes of such an important game. |