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A bit more time needed to complete Saturdays picks, and to get Frdays results in, but here are the Saturday morning games. I´ll have the complete Saturday picks in about 3 hours listed here.
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Japan Tokushima vs Vissel Kobe Team 1 Odds 6.0 Australia Mariners vs Wellington Team 2 Odds 4.5 Japan Ardija Omiya vs FC Tokyo Team 1 Odds 4.2 Australia Sydney vs W. Sydney Team 1 Odds 2.62 |
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Pretty cool of sly sharing this for nothing Too many trying to cash in on their knowledge nowadays.
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Cheers, Jermaine.
![]() To be honest, I may be more greedy than you think haha I had a crapload of nonsense happen the end of last week, the offices where I work at shut down, and 2 days later the vet found a Tumor in my cat and the Operation was on Tuesday, so now I´m Kind of stuck at home watching her and while bored I was surfing and found a few Websites where punters can sell their picks, joined two but I was never activated and they didn´t respond to my emails, so after 5 days I remembered the Forums here and decided fine I was lookng Forward to giving out my picks on those Websites so I mind as well give them out for free here for the two weeks as´after those Websites didn´t respond to me or activate my Profile, I won´t bother with them anymore. To answer your next question, no, I don´t plan on making a tipping Service/Website, because during bad spells I don´t want to lose People any of their Money. I do fine for myself since 2004, I don´t bet a lot so I don´t make loads, after all it´s a game and anything can happen regardless how much studying I put into it. And typically I am happy with a $50 Profit each week, if that´s what I happen to make with my low stakes. |
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Results October 17th
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. USA Houston Dynamo vs New England Team 1 Odds 2.5 Final 1-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Ukraine Metalurg Donetsk vs Zorya Luhansk Team 1 Odds 2.65 Final 6-2 WON 6.6 UNITS Austria Team For Wien vs Wacker Innsbruck Team 1 Odds 3.1 Final 2-0 WON 8.4 UNITS Germany Nurnberg vs RB Leibzig Team 1 Odds 2.65 Final WON 6.6 UNITS Italy Vicenza vs Pescara Team 2 Odds 2.3 Final 2-1 LOSS 4 UNITS Ireland Limerick vs Sligo Rovers Team 1 Odds 2.75 Final 1-0 WON 7 UNITS Brazil Santa Cruz Reife vs Vasco Da Gama Team 2 Odds 2.4 Moved To 18th Of October List TOTAL: +20.6 UNITS |
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All Matches begin between 5 CET October 18th – 23 CET October 18th.
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Japan Tokushima vs Vissel Kobe Team 1 Odds 6.0 Australia Mariners vs Wellington Team 2 Odds 4.5 Japan Ardija Omiya vs FC Tokyo Team 1 Odds 4.2 Australia Sydney vs W. Sydney Team 1 Odds 2.62 Kazachstan Ordabasy vs Lokomotiv Ast Team 1 Odds 6.5 Finland Rovaniemi Rops vs SJK Team 1 Odds 3.0 England Cardiff vs Nottingham Team 1 Odds 2.6 France Creteil vs Troyes Team 1 Odds 2.5 Italy Carpi vs Latina Team 1 Odds 2.6 Italy Spezia vs Catania Team 1 Odds 2.6 Belarus Dinamo Brest vs Minsk Team 1 Odds 2.8 Belarus Gomel vs Dinamo Minsk Team 1 Odds 5.0 Germany Hannover vs Monchengladbach Team 1 Odds 2.95 Germany Stuttgart vs Leverkusen Team 1 Odds 3.4 Africa Pretoria Univ. vs Supersport Team 1 Odds 3.1 England Scunthorpe vs Colchester Team 1 Odds 2.7 England Yeovil vs Swindon Team 1 Odds 3.0 England Dagenham & Red vs Newport Team 1 Odds 2.7 England Hartlepool vs Luton Town Team 1 Odds 2.9 England Altrincham vs Braintree Team 1 Odds 2.85 England Dartford vs Aldershot Team 1 Odds 2.7 England Reading vs Derby County Team 1 Odds 2.9 England Sheffield Wed. Vs Watford Team 2 Odds 3.2 England Burnley vs West Ham Team 2 Odds 2.7 Scotland St Mirren vs Iverness Team 1 Odds 3.1 Singapore Radomlje vs Gorica Team 1 Odds 3.1 Portugal Aves vs Boavista Team 2 Odds 3.0 Switzerland Aarau vs St Gallen Team 1 Odds 2.75 Switzerland Biel vs Will Team 1 Odds 2.95 Africa Amazulu vs hippa Utd. Team 1 Odds 2.85 Belgium Tubize vs Mons Team 2 Odds 2.55 Switzerland Young Boys vs Basel Team 1 Odds 2.55 Spain Sabadell vs Girona Team 1 Odds 2.55 Brazil Santa Cruz Reife vs Vasco Da Gama Team 2 Odds 2.4 |
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Some Sunday early morning matches, the complete list will be up in a few hours.
FOR ALL MATCHES 5 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Argentinia Defensor Justicia vs Lanus Team 2 Odds 3.3 USA San Jose vs Vancouver Team 1 Odds 3.3 Australia Perth Glory vs Brisbane Roar Team 1 Odds 2.85 China Harbin Yiteng vs Shanghai SIPG Team 1 Odds 3.25 |
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Results October 18th
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Japan Tokushima vs Vissel Kobe Team 1 Odds 6.0 Final 2-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Australia Mariners vs Wellington Team 2 Odds 4.5 Final 1-2 WIN 14 UNITS Japan Ardija Omiya vs FC Tokyo Team 1 Odds 4.2 Final 1-0 WIN 12.8 UNITS Australia Sydney vs W. Sydney Team 1 Odds 2.62 Final 3-2 WIN 6.5 UNITS Kazachstan Ordabasy vs Lokomotiv Ast Team 1 Odds 6.5 Final 1-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Finland Rovaniemi Rops vs SJK Team 1 Odds 3.0 Final 1-2 LOSS 4 UNITS England Cardiff vs Nottingham Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 2-1 WIN 6.4 UNITS France Creteil vs Troyes Team 1 Odds 2.5 Final 1-1 LOSS 4 UNITS Italy Carpi vs Latina Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 2-1 WIN 6.4 UNITS Italy Spezia vs Catania Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 3-0 WIN 6.4 UNITS Belarus Dinamo Brest vs Minsk Team 1 Odds 2.8 Final 1-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Belarus Gomel vs Dinamo Minsk Team 1 Odds 5.0 Final x-x LOSS 4 UNITS Germany Hannover vs Monchengladbach Team 1 Odds 2.95 Final 0-3 LOSS 4 UNITS Germany Stuttgart vs Leverkusen Team 1 Odds 3.4 Final 3-3 LOSS 4 UNITS Africa Pretoria Univ. vs Supersport Team 1 Odds 3.1 Final 0-3 LOSS 4 UNITS England Scunthorpe vs Colchester Team 1 Odds 2.7 Final 1-1 LOSS 4 UNITS England Yeovil vs Swindon Team 1 Odds 3.0 Final 1-1 LOSS 4 UNITS England Dagenham & Red vs Newport Team 1 Odds 2.7 Final 0-1 LOSS 4 UNITS England Hartlepool vs Luton Town Team 1 Odds 2.9 Final 1-2 LOSS 4 UNITS England Altrincham vs Braintree Team 1 Odds 2.85 Final 1-0 WIN 7.4 UNITS England Dartford vs Aldershot Team 1 Odds 2.7 Final 1-1 LOSS 4 UNITS England Reading vs Derby County Team 1 Odds 2.9 Final 0-3 LOSS 4 UNITS England Sheffield Wed. Vs Watford Team 2 Odds 3.2 Final 0-3 WIN 8.8 UNITS England Burnley vs West Ham Team 2 Odds 2.7 Final 1-3 WIN 6.8 UNITS Scotland St Mirren vs Iverness Team 1 Odds 3.1 Final 0-1 LOSS 4 UNITS Singapore Radomlje vs Gorica Team 1 Odds 3.1 MATCH MOVED TO OCTOBER 19th Portugal Aves vs Boavista Team 2 Odds 3.0 Final 0-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Switzerland Aarau vs St Gallen Team 1 Odds 2.75 Final 0-3 LOSS 4 UNITS Switzerland Biel vs Will Team 1 Odds 2.95 MATCH MOVED TO OCTOBER 19th Africa Amazulu vs hippa Utd. Team 1 Odds 2.85 Final 0-1 LOSS 4 UNITS Belgium Tubize vs Mons Team 2 Odds 2.55 Final 2-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Switzerland Young Boys vs Basel Team 1 Odds 2.55 Final 0-1 LOSS 4 UNITS Spain Sabadell vs Girona Team 1 Odds 2.55 Final 0-2 LOSS 4 UNITS Brazil Santa Cruz Reife vs Vasco Da Gama Team 2 Odds 2.4 Final 1-0 LOSS 4 UNITS TOTAL: -16.5 UNITS |
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All Matches begin between 01 CET October 19th – 23 CET October 19th.
FOR ALL MATCHES 5 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Argentinia Defensor Justicia vs Lanus Team 2 Odds 3.3 USA San Jose vs Vancouver Team 1 Odds 3.3 Australia Perth Glory vs Brisbane Roar Team 1 Odds 2.85 China Harbin Yiteng vs Shanghai SIPG Team 1 Odds 3.25 Armenia Mika vs Shirak Team 1 Odds 2.9 Finland Vaasa vs Helsinki Team 1 Odds 3.0 Germany Frankfurt vs Ingolstadt Team 1 Odds 4.0 Switzerland Sion vs Thun Team 1 Odds 2.55 Netherlands Go Ahead Eagles vs Zwolle Team 1 Odds 2.6 Switzerland Biel vs Will Team 1 Odds 2.95 Italy Cagliari vs Sampdoria Team 1 Odds 2.65 Norway Hodd vs Ranheim Team 1 Odds 2.65 Poland Korona vs Lech Poznan Team 1 Odds 4.2 Switzerland Grasshopper Club vs Zurich Team 1 Odds 2.85 Austria Wiener Neustadt vs Sturm Graz Team 1 Odds 3.6 England Stoke vs Swansea Team 1 Odds 2.5 Singapore Radomkje vs Gorica Team 1 Odds 3.1 Norway Ullensaker vs Kristiansund Team 1 Odds 4.5 Spain Leganes vs Betis Team 2 Odds 2.55 Ukraine Metalurg Donetsk vs Zorya Luhansk Team 1 Odds 2.65 Argentinia Rosario vs Newells Team 2 Odds 3.0 Italy Inter Milan vs Napoli Team 1 Odds 2.6 Russia Sibir vs Shinnik Yarolslav Team 1 Odds 2.55 |
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Results October 19th
FOR ALL MATCHES 5 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Argentinia Defensor Justicia vs Lanus Team 2 Odds 3.3 Final 1-2 WIN 11.5 UNITS USA San Jose vs Vancouver Team 1 Odds 3.3 Final 0-0 LOSS 5 UNITS Australia Perth Glory vs Brisbane Roar Team 1 Odds 2.85 Final 3-2 WIN 9.25 UNITS China Harbin Yiteng vs Shanghai SIPG Team 1 Odds 3.25 Final 1-1 LOSS 5 UNITS Armenia Mika vs Shirak Team 1 Odds 2.9 Final 3-1 WIN 9.5 UNITS Finland Vaasa vs Helsinki Team 1 Odds 3.0 Final 1-1 LOSS 5 UNITS Germany Frankfurt vs Ingolstadt Team 1 Odds 4.0 Final 0-1 LOSS 5 UNITS Switzerland Sion vs Thun Team 1 Odds 2.55 Final 0-0 LOSS 5 UNITS Netherlands Go Ahead Eagles vs Zwolle Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 3-2 WIN 8 UNITS Switzerland Biel vs Will Team 1 Odds 2.95 Final 4-1 WIN 9.75 UNITS Italy Cagliari vs Sampdoria Team 1 Odds 2.65 Final 2-2 LOSS 5 UNITS Norway Hodd vs Ranheim Team 1 Odds 2.65 Final 4-2 WIN 8.25 UNITS Poland Korona vs Lech Poznan Team 1 Odds 4.2 Final 2-2 LOSS 5 UNITS Switzerland Grasshopper Club vs Zurich Team 1 Odds 2.85 Final 1-3 LOSS 5 UNITS Austria Wiener Neustadt vs Sturm Graz Team 1 Odds 3.6 Final 0-0 LOSS 5 UNITS England Stoke vs Swansea Team 1 Odds 2.5 Final 2-1 Win 7.5 UNITS Singapore Radomkje vs Gorica Team 1 Odds 3.1 Final 0-3 LOSS 5 UNITS Norway Ullensaker vs Kristiansund Team 1 Odds 4.5 Final 1-2 LOSS 5 UNITS Spain Leganes vs Betis Team 2 Odds 2.55 Final 1-0 LOSS 5 UNITS Ukraine Metalurg Donetsk vs Zorya Luhansk Team 1 Odds 2.65 Final 0-0 LOSS 5 UNITS Argentinia Rosario vs Newells Team 2 Odds 3.0 Final 2-0 LOSS 5 UNITS Italy Inter Milan vs Napoli Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 2-2 LOSS 5 UNITS Russia Sibir vs Shinnik Yarolslav Team 1 Odds 2.55 Final 3-1 WIN 7.75 UNITS TOTAL: -3.5 UNITS |
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All Matches begin between 12 CET October 20th – 23 CET October 20th.
FOR ALL MATCHES 6 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Poland Zawisza vs Belchatow Team 1 Odds 2.55 France Valenciennes vs Dijon Team 1 Odds 3.1 Latvia Daugava Riga vs Metalurgs Team 1 Odds 2.7 |
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slydog, I think you are getting involved in too many leagues...
I think you would be better off picking the leagues where you feel most comfortable and sticking with those... |
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think it's a roll-over in tomorrow night's Euro lottery
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I agree with Panther. you'll probably show the same profit/loss, but will have to do a lot less work
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Thanks for the advice :)
Definitely many leagues, but admittedly I do enjoy the work. I am more confident in myself to come out ahead doing it this way than selecting less matches, basically because for so many years this is how I´ve done it, and I´d hate to Change things if one way is working for me long-term. I usually have fewer games Mondays - Fridays (2-10) but Weekends there are many. I´ll Keep Doing it this way for the next 12 days, so only 2-3 more days with too many matches. |
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NIce to see you havent failed us and are in the minus units already
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think it's a roll-over in tomorrow night's Euro lottery
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This is gonna be one helluva fight between slydog and Moneytree.
It's like Joe Bugner v Richard Dunn all over again. |
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10/10 for presentation and artistic impression
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Results October 20th
FOR ALL MATCHES 6 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Poland Zawisza vs Belchatow Team 1 Odds 2.55 Final 2-1 Win 9.3 UNITS France Valenciennes vs Dijon Team 1 Odds 3.1 Final 0-3 Loss 6 UNITS Latvia Daugava Riga vs Metalurgs Team 1 Odds 2.7 Final 2-4 Loss 6 UNITS TOTAL: -2.7 UNITS |
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@Slay - Question mate -firstly to have a winner obviously you need a goal or two... how many of these have had 2 goals, have you looked at possible profit if you had of backed each of those for 2 goals? ie, Ov1.5gls
Low odds, but way more winners im sure? |
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Why on earth did you pick Daugava Riga?
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@GTFI... Great question. In the past 4 days, there have been 39 matches with over 2.5 goals and 26 with under 2.5 goals. Odds for these games for over 2.5 are between 1.56 - 2.23, but average out to about 1.72.
I kept tabs on over/under for 2.5 and 3.5 and also for asian handicapping for my matches for a good 3 years (2007-2010), I can guarantee with those kind of bets that long-term it will cost me money with my picks. I also did other things during that time, like keeping tabs on betting doubles with my picks, etc and the best results I have had are backing a bet I think has value. It would have been great if I had like +70 units after 4 days, although that would have mislead a lot as most days I will have small losses, some days medium losses, and some days decent wins. It defintely takes patience betting the way I do, and I hate to post anything previously bet before I started this thread, but here were my total of my bets this month. I have no reason to lie with my below totals, but I guess no one knows but me whether I am telling the truth or not. I had my parents visiting us so I didn´t make any bets from October 1st - 11th. Oct. 11th: 4 wins, 6 losses, +8,12 units Oct. 12th: 2 wins, 2 losses, +5,21 units Oct. 13th: 0 wins, 1 loss, -4 units Oct. 14th: 15 wins, 21 losses, +61.34 units Oct. 15th: 3 wins, 7 losses, -1.29 units Oct. 16th: no matches found Oct. 17th - 20th results posted in thread. |
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I don´t fnd any value bets for Tuesday morning, so I´ll post Tuesdays bets here around 12-14 cet.
Have a good night all. |
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Not offended, appreciate your opinion, and thanks for the good luck.
I agree with you that it is wise to stay away from eastern Clubs stats, actually many (dare I say most) league stats are not the best thing to use when evaluating value or choosing which Team to back, but I´m sure many punters who do well backing teams only using stats will disagree with me. I´m sure anyone can go through my past or future value bets, and they will find more than one that they disagree with because, I suppose, it´s just an opinion on whether a particular match has value for someone or not. If I believe I find value in a match, though, I have to back it. |
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All Matches begin between 13 CET October 21st – 23 CET October 21st.
FOR ALL MATCHES 7 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Austria KSV vs Liefering Team 1 Odds 2.7 Africa Mpumalangaba vs Orlando Pirates Team 1 Odds 3.4 Scotland Annan vs Arbroath Team 1 Odds 3.4 England Morecambe vs York Team 1 Odds 2.55 England Crawley Town vs Walsall Team 1 Odds 2.6 England Crewe vs Peterborough Team 1 Odds 4.0 England Carlisle vs Burton Team 1 Odds 2.7 England Exeter vs Wycombe Team 1 Odds 2.9 |
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Exeter @ 2.9 to beat Wycombe
Don't see any value in that at all, how are you pricing that up? gl though |
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Hi themover, yeah, I won´t disagree with you on this one, that´s one of those games where I think it is easy to say Wycombe should win because they are clearly the better team, if they play at the top of their game they could win 3-0. Most sites will have the odds around 3.0-3.1 for exeter at home. It´s just I feel at 3-1 it is a worthwhile risk, even if their chances of winning maybe are around 35% if one considers stats, which I really try not to do.
Maybe I lean towards saying value too much, because along with value I also consider is the bet worth the risk for me. Just for fun, if you´d like, tell me what you think the final will be. I´ll give you the score I think if I was betting on the team that I think "should" win. If you get the exact score correct, I´ll send you $5 via paypal. If you don´t guess the exact score this time, we do this one game per day until October 30th - you select the game and give me your score prediction. I can´t do this for everyone, just you, because the Holy Grail comment + a correct score prediction on one of my games is worth earning $5. My prediction would be Wycombe to win 3-1. |
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Results October 21st
FOR ALL MATCHES 7 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Austria KSV vs Liefering Team 1 Odds 2.7 Final 0-1 Loss 7 UNITS Africa Mpumalangaba vs Orlando Pirates Team 1 Odds 3.4 Final 2-1 Win 16.8 UNITS Scotland Annan vs Arbroath Team 1 Odds 3.4 Final 0-1 Loss 7 UNITS England Morecambe vs York Team 1 Odds 2.55 Final 1-1 Loss 7 UNITS England Crawley Town vs Walsall Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 1-0 Win 11.2 UNITS England Crewe vs Peterborough Team 1 Odds 4.0 Final 1-0 Win 21 UNITS England Carlisle vs Burton Team 1 Odds 2.7 Final 3-4 Loss 7 UNITS England Exeter vs Wycombe Team 1 Odds 2.9 Final 2-1 Win 13.30 UNITS TOTAL: +34.30 UNITS |
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@themover... I guess you didn´t read my last post today, maybe you´ll be around again soon as the offer still stands ;)
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All Matches begin between 23 CET October 22nd – 23 CET October 23rd.
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Brazil Parana Club vs Portuguesa Team 2 Odds 4.5 Brazil Boa vs Nautico Recife Team 2 Odds 3.6 Japan Kashiwa vs Gamba Osaka Team 1 Odds 2.9 Japan Vissel Kobe vs Kashima Team 1 Odds 3.1 Bosnia Celik vs Olimpik Team 1 Odds 3.2 Slovenia Zavrc vs Celje Team 1 Odds 2.5 Portugal Braga vs Feirense Team 2 Odds 2.8 Portugal Trofense vs Covilha Team 1 Odds 2.6 UEFA Metalist vs Legia Warsaw Team 1 Odds 2.6 Africa Pretoria University vs Bloemfontein Team 1 Odds 2.62 UEFA Monaco vs Benfica Team 1 Odds 2.5 |
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Well done on Exeter slydog, some good wins on the 21st for you
Sorry I missed the offer, would have gone 2-1 to Exeter myself ![]() |
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Thanks, well, any other games you want to take the offer up on (1 per day), feel free ;)
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Results October 22nd
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Brazil Parana Club vs Portuguesa Team 2 Odds 4.5 Final 1-0 Loss 4 UNITS Brazil Boa vs Nautico Recife Team 2 Odds 3.6 Final 1-0 Loss 4 UNITS Japan Kashiwa vs Gamba Osaka Team 1 Odds 2.9 Final 1-0 Win 7.6 UNITS Japan Vissel Kobe vs Kashima Team 1 Odds 3.1 Final 0-0 Loss 4 UNITS Bosnia Celik vs Olimpik Team 1 Odds 3.2 Final 1-0 Win 8.8 UNITS Slovenia Zavrc vs Celje Team 1 Odds 2.5 Final 2-3 Loss 4 UNITS Portugal Braga vs Feirense Team 2 Odds 2.8 Final 1-3 Win 7.2 UNITS Portugal Trofense vs Covilha Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 1-0 Win 6.4 UNITS UEFA Metalist vs Legia Warsaw Team 1 Odds 2.6 Final 0-1 Loss 4 UNITS Africa Pretoria University vs Bloemfontein Team 1 Odds 2.62 Final 1-2 Loss 4 UNITS UEFA Monaco vs Benfica Team 1 Odds 2.5 Final 0-0 Loss 4 UNITS TOTAL: +2.00 UNITS |
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All Matches begin between 23 CET October 22nd – 22 CET October 23rd.
FOR ALL MATCHES 4 UNITS Staked (1 unit = 1 USD), listed is league, opponents, tip and odds. Argentinia Atletico Rafaela vs Defensa Justicia Team 1 Odds 2.7 Europe League Dinamo Minsk vs Guingamp Team 2 Odds 2.7 Europe League Rijeka vs Feyenoord Team 2 Odds 2.75 Europe League Partizan vs Besiktas Team 2 Odds 2.6 |
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Think you maybe backing on name in the Europa League games, hope they come in for you but apart from the Besiktas game I'd be a solid layer of the away sides at that price.
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hi, I promise that I don´t back in Teams or team names. That´s asking to go bankrupt.
I used to enjoy laying Teams for fun a Long while ago, but worked away from that for one reason or another. These Odds though would scare me a hella bunch to lay ie I´d have to win all 3 lay bets to Profit $30 with $10 each backing the lay minus commission. If I won 2 out of 3 I´d lose about $15-$25 maybe (I´m not really sure what all of the Odds are for the other Teams right now), but i am guessing laying all 3 Teams at $10 to win Comes to about a $44 risk. I can´t win laying Teams like that consistently. |