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15 Apr 14
06:15
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19 Oct 05
clough 
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Brian Clough and Sir Alex Ferguson are joint greatest managers of all time
lol biscuit.....john barnes and Jason mcateer the dream team...on yer bike son.
Stefan kovacs
He brought the style of the 50s magnificent magyars to the 70s ajax teams.
Later went to France and built the foundations of their success
The Dutch players he coached took the total football and pressing game off to Spain (cruyff @ barca)
And now Pep is at bayern..
Football truly is a global village
And anyone who thinks its Slur Alec fluckerson is a total numpty.
He brought the style of the 50s magnificent magyars to the 70s ajax teams.
Later went to France and built the foundations of their success
The Dutch players he coached took the total football and pressing game off to Spain (cruyff @ barca)
And now Pep is at bayern..
Football truly is a global village
And anyone who thinks its Slur Alec fluckerson is a total numpty.
thelatarps
are we talking about managers or coaches,there is a big difference imvho
are we talking about managers or coaches,there is a big difference imvho
Only in england is he known as a manager
every where else its a head coach
Fergus 'managed' the epl for 20 years right down from the Man U xi to the FA itself
you can have points for that
every where else its a head coach
Fergus 'managed' the epl for 20 years right down from the Man U xi to the FA itself
you can have points for that
yeah he did and the referees as well,but he wasn't a good coach,but he was a great leader of men.
The problem with Fergus is he believed his own press.
There was a bit in the final pages of his book 'managing my life' in which he declared that Man Utd ought to be winning the epl every year as they were the biggest club in the world or words to that effect.
Get the feeling he honestly did believe that guff.
Its probably why he put davy in charge of Man U, thinking that he (SAF) had erected this vast empire of football dominance and all that was required was a safe pair of hands.
I think its only just now that the Moyesiah has worked out that he's been left a pretty average squad, one which without the superstar strikers (Roo, RvP) is probably worse than what he had at Everton.
Tactically, i would put Fergus in about the top 20 coaches simply because there are about another 20 men who have won 2 euro cups.
I discount most of those 20 epl titles as they were won with the richest club in an age when money was the single greatest factor for success.
His record v pep and mou aint good but i will say this for him. He had a (purple) nose for trouble. You see some of the teams set up to play v the big guns from spain or at the better clubs in the EPL and you can see right away why they get beaten 4goals. Very rarely did that happen to Fergus.
There was a bit in the final pages of his book 'managing my life' in which he declared that Man Utd ought to be winning the epl every year as they were the biggest club in the world or words to that effect.
Get the feeling he honestly did believe that guff.
Its probably why he put davy in charge of Man U, thinking that he (SAF) had erected this vast empire of football dominance and all that was required was a safe pair of hands.
I think its only just now that the Moyesiah has worked out that he's been left a pretty average squad, one which without the superstar strikers (Roo, RvP) is probably worse than what he had at Everton.
Tactically, i would put Fergus in about the top 20 coaches simply because there are about another 20 men who have won 2 euro cups.
I discount most of those 20 epl titles as they were won with the richest club in an age when money was the single greatest factor for success.
His record v pep and mou aint good but i will say this for him. He had a (purple) nose for trouble. You see some of the teams set up to play v the big guns from spain or at the better clubs in the EPL and you can see right away why they get beaten 4goals. Very rarely did that happen to Fergus.
The bloke in the Sky broadband advert must be a contender. How many managers do you know that would send off their receptionist to "sort out" a disgruntled customer?
thelatarps, wasn't Fergie notorious for not spending all that much on players? When it came to net spend United were well down the list. You are dismissing all too easily how he dominated English football for 20 years. Also you are not taking into consideration what he achieved at Aberdeen and to a lesser extent St Mirren. Aberdeen destroying the Old Firm's dominance and winning a Cup Winners Cup, defeating Bayern Munich and Real Madrid in the process is nothing short of remarkable. He also made humble St Mirren into a very decent side who regularly defeated the old firm and took them very close to the top of the Scottish game.
Anyone who followed scottish football in the 80s would tell you that the old firm were not what they are now.
Celtic were in effect a feeder club for the english first division.
Rangers were as poor as church mice until david murray came along.
Look at how many international class forwards Celtic parted with in the time fergus was at aberdeen:
Dalglish, Frank McGarvey, Charlie Nic, Mo Jo, Frank McAvennie, Alan McInally, Brian McClair.
Fly me that is some list.
As soon as Fergus saw which way the wind was blowing with Murray's arrival at Ibrox he couldn't wait to fluck off south.
Fergus is full of sh!t.
The game's about the great players, the great teams. They come around once in a blue moon and rarely last.
barca 2008-11 being the latest.
Fergus had a shot with a great team. He had a chance with that euro cup team in 99, they could have gone on to dominate with the right man in charge. Fergus was too obsessed with his own image within the Man U dressing room to accomodate overseas arrivals to make it work.
Fluck him
Celtic were in effect a feeder club for the english first division.
Rangers were as poor as church mice until david murray came along.
Look at how many international class forwards Celtic parted with in the time fergus was at aberdeen:
Dalglish, Frank McGarvey, Charlie Nic, Mo Jo, Frank McAvennie, Alan McInally, Brian McClair.
Fly me that is some list.
As soon as Fergus saw which way the wind was blowing with Murray's arrival at Ibrox he couldn't wait to fluck off south.
Fergus is full of sh!t.
The game's about the great players, the great teams. They come around once in a blue moon and rarely last.
barca 2008-11 being the latest.
Fergus had a shot with a great team. He had a chance with that euro cup team in 99, they could have gone on to dominate with the right man in charge. Fergus was too obsessed with his own image within the Man U dressing room to accomodate overseas arrivals to make it work.
Fluck him
Well, that's one interpretation. I think it's impossible for you to be objective because you so obviously hate the man. Fact is he did an incredible job at St Mirren, Aberdeen and then Manchester United.
He preferred to foster his own players rather than fill his teams with big name signings. That was just part of his footballing philosophy. You obviously disagree with that and that's your prerogative. Whatever we may think personally is neither here nor there, the point is it worked and it worked spectacularly well. He dominated English football more than any other manager has and that is a fact. It's also a fact that he dominated Scottish football with a smallish provincial club. He also won 2 European Cups/CL trophy whatever you want to call it.
A lot of your post is speculation as to his motivations. Personally I think you are wrong about his move to England. Apparently he turned down several English clubs but could not refuse Man U when the job was offered. Do you really believe any manager in their right mind would choose to stay at a provincial club like Aberdeen when they could go to a huge club like Man U?
He preferred to foster his own players rather than fill his teams with big name signings. That was just part of his footballing philosophy. You obviously disagree with that and that's your prerogative. Whatever we may think personally is neither here nor there, the point is it worked and it worked spectacularly well. He dominated English football more than any other manager has and that is a fact. It's also a fact that he dominated Scottish football with a smallish provincial club. He also won 2 European Cups/CL trophy whatever you want to call it.
A lot of your post is speculation as to his motivations. Personally I think you are wrong about his move to England. Apparently he turned down several English clubs but could not refuse Man U when the job was offered. Do you really believe any manager in their right mind would choose to stay at a provincial club like Aberdeen when they could go to a huge club like Man U?
Being objective is impossible unless you want to go by sheer accumulation of trophies
Which is a tad too simplistic for this debate imo.
I'm just fed up with numpty pundits going on about Fergus being the G.O.A.T.
And believe me mr h I am not alone in my dislike of the man.
Go to any pub in the land talk to any punter into football and my guess is that they think Fergus is an arrogant big-head.
Unless youre a Man U fan or from the granite city you have to accept he's not the most likable chap in the world.
Some one like Mourinho will come out much better because he carries himself off with a bit of style at least.
I'll give fergus his due as an above average tactician
Aberdeen proved he knew his onions but its not much better than what Jim Mclean did at Dundee U, who reached a Euro cup semi final and a UEFA cup final in the same era.
The Buddies went on to win the Scottish Cup after he'd left.
Point is scottish football was a whole lot more of a level playing field then.
Anyway ask yourself this. Why is it that in every other modern big club in europe the head coach gets replaced every couple of years or so at best?
How is it that Fergus was allowed to stay dominating the one club for over 20 years?
Says to me he was in a comfort zone, able to do as he liked when he liked by his own board and by the FA itself; happy in the knowledge that when huge avalanches of money were flooding into english football for the very first time thy FA had better not do anything to rock the boat, to upset the business model of the EPL. In short what Man Utd & Fergus wanted was good for business.
Good lord how many times did he tap up players without recourse? How many times did he abuse officials? Think of all those parents of kids acting disgracefully on the sidelines and think who the role model is?
I can remember a time when football managers sat in the dug out and refused to apportion blame on refs after the match. That all changed with the premier league and the one man synonomous with all this is Fergus.
Fly me when he booted beckham in the face that was enough for the tin tack on its own. Instead it was Beckham who had to leave.
You couldnt make this up.
No you can stick yer 13 epl titles up yer erse. To me the Fergus/Man U era has as much value as the Jurgen Boggs period with Dynamo Berlin in the 1980s. At least you knew what you were getting with the stasi.
Which is a tad too simplistic for this debate imo.
I'm just fed up with numpty pundits going on about Fergus being the G.O.A.T.
And believe me mr h I am not alone in my dislike of the man.
Go to any pub in the land talk to any punter into football and my guess is that they think Fergus is an arrogant big-head.
Unless youre a Man U fan or from the granite city you have to accept he's not the most likable chap in the world.
Some one like Mourinho will come out much better because he carries himself off with a bit of style at least.
I'll give fergus his due as an above average tactician
Aberdeen proved he knew his onions but its not much better than what Jim Mclean did at Dundee U, who reached a Euro cup semi final and a UEFA cup final in the same era.
The Buddies went on to win the Scottish Cup after he'd left.
Point is scottish football was a whole lot more of a level playing field then.
Anyway ask yourself this. Why is it that in every other modern big club in europe the head coach gets replaced every couple of years or so at best?
How is it that Fergus was allowed to stay dominating the one club for over 20 years?
Says to me he was in a comfort zone, able to do as he liked when he liked by his own board and by the FA itself; happy in the knowledge that when huge avalanches of money were flooding into english football for the very first time thy FA had better not do anything to rock the boat, to upset the business model of the EPL. In short what Man Utd & Fergus wanted was good for business.
Good lord how many times did he tap up players without recourse? How many times did he abuse officials? Think of all those parents of kids acting disgracefully on the sidelines and think who the role model is?
I can remember a time when football managers sat in the dug out and refused to apportion blame on refs after the match. That all changed with the premier league and the one man synonomous with all this is Fergus.
Fly me when he booted beckham in the face that was enough for the tin tack on its own. Instead it was Beckham who had to leave.
You couldnt make this up.
No you can stick yer 13 epl titles up yer erse. To me the Fergus/Man U era has as much value as the Jurgen Boggs period with Dynamo Berlin in the 1980s. At least you knew what you were getting with the stasi.
Whether you like the man or not has nothing to do with it. We are not debating the most likeable manager, we are debating the best manager. You can only judge this on success. Ferguson played attacking football and was also very successful. So at least his brand of football was entertaining, we cant say the same for Mourinho.
Bill Shankly would take a lot of beating. He could have been the greatest had he stayed to finish the job. Instead Bob Paisley took the baton and ran with it. Paisley did an excellent job and is also in the running.
Jock Stein dominated Scottish football, his team played exciting attacking football and he can boast 2 European Cup finals, winning one of them.
It's ridiculous that Brian Clough won 2 European Cups with Notts forest. He must be on the short-list.
Rinus Michels created a unique style of pure football that was the most beautiful football I have ever seen. He deserves a lot of credit for imagination and creativity. And if I had to opt for G.O.A.T it would be him. He didn't win as much as the others but for me his brand of football is the best of all time.
Bill Shankly would take a lot of beating. He could have been the greatest had he stayed to finish the job. Instead Bob Paisley took the baton and ran with it. Paisley did an excellent job and is also in the running.
Jock Stein dominated Scottish football, his team played exciting attacking football and he can boast 2 European Cup finals, winning one of them.
It's ridiculous that Brian Clough won 2 European Cups with Notts forest. He must be on the short-list.
Rinus Michels created a unique style of pure football that was the most beautiful football I have ever seen. He deserves a lot of credit for imagination and creativity. And if I had to opt for G.O.A.T it would be him. He didn't win as much as the others but for me his brand of football is the best of all time.
I should add that Rinus Michels was also very successful. He won a European Cup with Ajax. He won the European Nations with Holland in 1988 and was World Cup finalist in 1974. And did all this by playing the best football you will ever see.
Sir Bob Paisley.
Still the most successful manager in the history of the EC/CL.
A gentleman as well.
Still the most successful manager in the history of the EC/CL.
A gentleman as well.
Shankly - built a club from the bottom up.
Also did it with grace and humor. Never once resorted to intimidating officials. That will always detract from Fergies achievements.
Also did it with grace and humor. Never once resorted to intimidating officials. That will always detract from Fergies achievements.
Sir Arsene, Holds records those others can only dream about, records that will NEVER be broken, The Invincibles showed what greatness can be achieved for others to be jealous for ever. No replies neccessary
Ferguson won Div 2 in Scotland with the SHIRE ffs. how good was that. cheers.
if alex ferguson was so great y did he appoint david moyes as the next manager? now the epl is the worst league in europe with 3 sh1te/unsporting teams vying to win the title. ferguson has a lot to answer for.
tony pulis much better. wot a job he's done at palace. deserves every recognition going. manager of the season for me.
Ferguson over £500 million in his last 20 years.
No real European legacy at all. (2 fortunate European Cups, after being battered in each final)
No real European legacy at all. (2 fortunate European Cups, after being battered in each final)
Poppy dog, if that figure is true that is an average of only £25 per year. Do you think that's a lot of money in football terms, at this level?
SAF, Busby, Stein and etc.,
We could argue all day and not get agreement except to say whoever it is he'll be Scottish.
We could argue all day and not get agreement except to say whoever it is he'll be Scottish.
If Liverpool win the title this season - Brendan Rodgers
You'll never have heard of Bill Nicholson of course, because he was a manager before football started in 1990 and didn't shout his mouth off left, right and centre.
Just got on with building a double-winning side, in the days before they gave away doubles to the highest bidder.
Just got on with building a double-winning side, in the days before they gave away doubles to the highest bidder.
Everyone who has voted for anyone except clough. Please have a look at Forest's progress from 3rd in division two at the end of 1977 to the european cup two years later. The team consisted of
Birtles who was still fitting carpets professionally while playing for forest (who had bought him for £2,000)
Robertson, £free from drumchapel choirboys
woodcock, started at forest, loaned to lincoln city till he was good enough (also £free)
etc etc etc
taylor helped find the talent but clough made £100,000 players play like £1,000,000 players
no one else recommended on here would have won the european cup with nottingham forest...end of thread.
Birtles who was still fitting carpets professionally while playing for forest (who had bought him for £2,000)
Robertson, £free from drumchapel choirboys
woodcock, started at forest, loaned to lincoln city till he was good enough (also £free)
etc etc etc
taylor helped find the talent but clough made £100,000 players play like £1,000,000 players
no one else recommended on here would have won the european cup with nottingham forest...end of thread.
Problem with Clough is Taylor helped out more than what people think, Clough couldn't function without Taylor.
Also, he only won the league twice and FA Cup 0.
Obviously relegated as well towards the end. Great man but greatest manager, no where near.
Also, he only won the league twice and FA Cup 0.
Obviously relegated as well towards the end. Great man but greatest manager, no where near.
What about Alf Ramsey for what he did with Ipswich and England?
Any manager that's won 3 European Cups should be the greatest of all time.
& Clough was nothing without Taylor.
& Clough was nothing without Taylor.
Taylor retired in 1982, what did Clough win from '82 to '93? Two league cups.
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