Time to Scrap the Pointless FA Cup

The league is boring - richest clubs win; teams celebrate coming fourth ffs; teams talk about avoiding relegation because of the money and nothing else. FA Cup is pure, raw football.

Tell that to the thousands of Watford fans who outsang CITY fans,2-0 up did not deserve to lose,the fa.cup is alive and kicking.

mesmerised ,is your team left in the fa cup ?

to be fair, a lot of the big teams seem to be playing their full strength sides

Arsenal were strong last night, City today, Liverpool only rested their keeper, Everton only rested Howard and Lukaku.

Its more the teams like Southampton and Sunderland who make wholesale changes

walofs!

I didn't even know Arsenal were playing last night until a couple of hours before

Sounds to me like you're a **** fan, therefore your opinion is worthless

The FA Cup is great.

Arsenal haven't won a trophy for years yet c0ck a snoot to the greatest domestic cup competition in world football. If you count coming 4th every season as an achievement then I pity you. Football should be about winning things, and not just milking a cash cow.

Typical Sky Sports upbringing for the deluded gooner.

Took my grandson today CITY v Watford,half time 2-0 down he wanted to go home,I had to explain the 40 odd years I had to watch the ups and downs,he was buzzing at full time,love the cup.

mortpeh, my team played last night, I watched, we won, but I was more concerned with how much I won rather than the result, because I have little feeling left for any domestic cup, it's only really good for blooding youngsters for us, it's a fact of life, MysticMugget, when has an FA Cup match ever been played on a Friday?

I don't care about little clubs going on a run, I care about what's good for my team in the same way you only really care about what's good for your team, and what's good for us is the league and the Champions League, you ask most of our fans and they will happily tell you it's the only two they are bothered about, you'll get a few romantics and traditionalist who will peddle the "how special it still is" line but really the interest levels is not half as much as they used to.

Mesmerised seems like your typical Skyboy, fed on a diet of Andy Gray and Martin Tyler and allowing himself to be brainwashed.

Mesmerised I have to agree with the others, you sound like the type who thinks football was invented by Sky in the early 90s and that the game is all about the premier****e rather than about the 92 plus the pyramid.

its about glory ,its about winning things , not about staying up,  qualifying for competitions that you cant win.

Didn't grow up with Sky.

Had four TV channels til 97

Had five TV channels til freeview

Never bought Sky I would never give a penny to that withered old worm Murdoch, stream everything - hth.

It just does nothing for fans of big clubs, it's a natural process when you're at the top end, I wouldn't expect fans of smaller clubs to understand until they get here.

bet david moyes wishes man u were still in it

How many big clubs are there? 6,10,20?
How many professional clubs are there? 104,106, 112?
How many clubs enter the FA Cup? I don't know but it's in the hundreds at least.

It's the beautiful game, the national game. It's for everyone, all the clubs, not just the big ones, and if you take the big ones out it devalues everything, turns it into an alternative Football League Trophy.We already have one of those, we don't need two of them.

not so long ago chelski the also rans

knew it, basically supported arsenal when they were winning.

****** knows nothing about his local club.

yes chuck 150 years history down the drain the same as when the "big" clubs shat on the old championship

maybe one cup would be better than two

Lol Ibra, you aint got a clue what you're talking about sunshine, started supporting Arsenal when we were known as Boring Boring Arsenal and finished 12th in the league, favourite book was Fever Pitch and read a couple of Brian Glanville's one's on us so what I don't about us know is not worth knowing. Also, we haven't a pot in the best part of a decade so instead of ranting like a women in period pains ask instead

Just because the FA Cup means something to you and other fans of smaller clubs, you should still have intelligence to realise times have changed, it's je ne sais quoi faded along time ago and the big clubs have much bigger fish to fry.

mesmerised = bell end.

End of thread.

Grow up Charlene.

im also an arsenal fan but still really like the fa cup. not keen on the other one but good to test younger players in

Its the Capital One Cup, thats pointless, as the attendances, at these games are so poor, it must cost some clubs money to play the matches.

Packed crowd at Sunderland a few minutes ago

Case rested.

do away with the freight rover/ paints trophy /full members cup

that's the silly one

those games could be used as FA cup games instead and have an extra round for league and non league sides ,regionalise it a bit

Yeovil v Carsisle will appeal to no one

Yeovil v Bournemouth will

Then include the EPL side in 2 phases

Include the top 8 EPL sides in at a  later time

It encourages teams to get that 8th spot ,and frees up the Euro sides

I undertsnad where mesmerised is coming from - all fans want Champions league glory ,it's the cream .

Arsenal also know they have only a 1 in 5 chance of winning the FA cup,so it's still a lottery .

For a fan of say Bristol City or Northampton ,the cup is then about creating that upset . N'hampton beating Everton away (e.g)will live in the memory  ,Arsenal winning at Everton in the cup  will not

I think this debate will crop up again as there wasn't a SINGLE upset today


Kidderminster the nearest to one

Yeah Sunderland, the side who've just got to Wembley. Great example that

if there was only one cup, with regional qualifying in say 8 groups with an open draw at quarter final stage you would get more
interest

last 16 would end up , more or less, as derbies, and regional cups could be presented if required

winners into champs league, losers to europa would guarantee a bit more interest

indeed donny

we need more derby opportunities

The League cup in particular is treated with disdain by the big boys, only if they reach the latter stages do they take it seriously.

Donny's idea is a good one as money talks and the likeliness is the FA won't get rid of it for the big pay days at Wembley, but how much intrinsic value it that really place on it is obvious, only have to look back to 2000 when they encouraged United to play in some trumped up competition in South America and abandon their status as current holders, and not having it as the last game of the season.

I know I'm right but the fans of little clubs can't think beyond their next big day out to one of the big clubs in the draw goes their way.

"I know I'm right but the fans of little clubs can't think beyond their next big day out to one of the big clubs in the draw goes their way."

Arrogance isn't the nicest of qualities and if you knew anything about the game of football as a whole outside your little bubble, you'd realise how simplistic it is to say "I know I'm right" in this case.

Save the character assessment I'm not interested.

Factually I know I am correct, it's very simple, means a lot to lower league clubs, doesn't mean a lot to the bigger clubs / fans / players, are you honestly telling me it's the same now as it used to be? now where near and ever will be again, have to deal with the reality and adapt - only a  matter of time before the Europa League is scrapped too and the Champions League is doubled.

Very least Have the two domestics cups conjoined and have done with it.

i think what has happend ia the top 4 or 5 clubs have been 'taken out' of the top flight /division


most of the premier league is nearer to the championship in terms of stadia ,facilities,money ,fan base and status

those 5 elite may as well play in a super league


20 or 30 years ago you didn't have this issue with money so top heavy , and very rich owners

times have changed  indeed

it would normally be a case of customers voting with their feet if it was the high street  ,ie Arsenal deserting the 'emirates' (thats something else thats crept into the game ) and supporting Leyton Orient or Barnet

But football isnt a heartfelt business , fans will want to win at all costs


Crystal Palace would swap their status with Chelsea in a heartbeat

Man City were in league One a few short seasons ago - their fans are lapping up this new found success

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think that's a much better post than your last one and I might not necessarily be against ditching the League Cup.Just don't forget that the big clubs are just a part of the pyramid, same as the little clubs are, long history , proud tradition etc. Anyway, without my team to teach Scezney and Akpom all about what first team football is really like, your Arsenal would be that little bit worse off, wink icon.

My 00.29 was @ Mesmerised not Coach

The Premier League is a global business, and it's competing with other leagues for attention, some La Liga games can be played at the crack of dawn now for the Asian Market, their catching up to us with early KO's

Which is why it is only a matter of time before the Premier League invite other big European clubs to join the league - there will no doubt be a series of Super Leagues, I was on about it last week.

The PL would be well within their rights to demote some club in favour of inviting clubs  like Ajax, PSG and Celtic and Rangers, but it is only likely to happen once they scrap the pointless Europa League that they keep trying to rejuvenate but really is on life support machine, and then double the CL  format, which in reality means to win the CL you'd only have to play 2 more matches. Because for TV / Sponsor / Advertising purposes it would be much more lucrative to have the big teams in the CL then a second rate tinpot cup nobody really cares about. The likes of Liverpool Juventus shouldn't be playing Europa League Football.

If I were a fan of a lower league club I;d think I was a bit of C*** too, but I'm calling it exactly how I see it.

Which is why it is only a matter of time before the Premier League invite other big European clubs to join the league - there will no doubt be a series of Super Leagues, I was on about it last week.
____________
yeah,and it was a feckin daft idea 

iyo SlowCoach

I never thought i would say this but the cups are finished watch the lower div hi lites the grounds are empty.Iam of an age who lookedforward to mon lunch time to hear the draw. Now I don't care who is in the draw. Its like us sport no relegation just money can u imagine any of the big teams going down.Has the early rounds of the champion league been of any interest except to fans of competing clubs.

Next thing the money men will want to replace the World Cup with a league restricted to Brazil, Argentina, Germany and Italy and four invited countries.
If the top clubs aren't bothered with the FA Cup then **** off to Europe.

Got to agree with mesmerised, which is a new experience for me.

the FA cup can be a great competition


seed it a/la tennis and world cup

regionalise it

each region is allocated 1-4 teams

32 qualify



Example

West country region



Early rounds -  non league v non league


Sample results

Tiverton  1  Exeter  2
Plymouth  1  Honiton T  0
Yeovil  3 Bideford 1
Forest Green 1 Weymouth 0
Bristol City 2 Cheltenham 0
Bath  1 Bournemouth 2
Torquay  1 Weston Sm 0
Hereford  2 Swindon marine 0
Swindon T  1 Gloucester 0
Oxford U  2 Oxford City 1
Reading  4 Devizes  0
Bristol Rovers  1 Poole 0

next round

Exeter v Plymouth
Yeovil v Bournemouth
Forest Green v Bristol Rovers
Bristol City v Oxford City
Reading v Swindon
Torquay v Hereford

next round
Plymouth v Torquay
Reading v Bournemouth
Bristol City v Bristol R

Bristol City ,Plymouth and Reading qualify and play the 3 from the South east region


Bristol City v  Wycombe
Reading v Brighton
Plymouth v Portsmouth

3 winners go through to last 32

An area such as the north west would have greater numbers qualifying ,say 6 through to last 32

last round in the NW  would be like ,the last round woukld be the first stop for EPL teams

Bolton v Man U
Man city v Blackburn
Wigan v Everton
Liverpool v Burnley
Blackpool v Rochdale
Oldham v Preston 

Oldham v

London would have its own region btw ,allowing 8 teams like the NW -allowing for the greater number of EPL teams

I'd much rather they scrap the pointless England team.

Theres to much football on tv which dosent help,can remember when only the final was shown live with highligts of 3 games on MOTD.

mesmerised     25 Jan 14 20:54 

Time to scrap the FA Cup and league cup for the big boys, it's past it's sell by date and no longer has an appeal.
-------------

I presume you sat there 'bored to tears'  - whilst Extra-Time was being played in  the Man U v Sunderland LEAGUE CUP match the other evening ....

- and then - when it went to a dramatic PENALTY=SHOOT-OUT - presumably, YOU said .... 'Sod this' - and went into the kitchen to make a drink of tea ....

- Whilst the vast MAJORITY of Viewers  - not to mention the Fans in the ground were ... well .... er MESMERISED !

you know its going downhill when teams like Fulham field a backup side

Spot on onlooker, good post.
I wonder how many peoples views are skewed due to seeing football in general as a betting medium first and a spectator sport second, just a thought....

Yes onlooker, I'm sure United fans were crying into there Special K the next morning, probably a relife not to take another hiding off City.

fulham will field a back up side as they have no hope of winning it although i'm not sure how Pompey and Wigan managed it  saying that

the top clubs take it seriously though

Oh, they were crying alright, and missing from here

semi was dramatic, but hardly for the right reasons

big club coasting to dream final until goalkeeping error with a few minutes left

big club waltz down other end to allow pelanties

big club rumoured not to have bothered reading competition rules regarding extra time

3 out of 10 pelanties scored, made for excellent dramatic viewing

Coaach, I know you mean well and have guiven iot thought but the end result of your idea is to make it much harder for teams outside the prem to draw one of the big teams and to make us play more matches. We already play 46 league games a season. Very kind of you to throw us a few crumbs though.

mesmerised talking his usual diatribe of rubbish i see

Lol @ the ConMan Dragon, when he's not busy leading people to tipping sites that con money out of people (fact) he's tipping up short priced favs, fudges his p&l to suit, laps up the adulation and throws his toys out when people dare to criticise - what a simpleton.

Good ideas coach but Donny has already solved it knock the two domestic ups into one.

you are a sad , misinformed and deluded individual who has nothing to say but be critical, you are even on here critisising an iconic part of football and our heritage

it must be sad being you you seem a victor meldrew type which is what i wirefer you to as from know on

child

You're a scam artist whose posted yet another link to yet another website in your thread, scam artists tend to get upset when people cotton to them, you display all the attributes of a scam artist, I don't like scam artists, you are a scam artist, although maybe I'm giving you too much credit given the amount of times you've been caught red handed, in fact, you give scam artist a bad name.

you are a fool who knows fick all about fick all

Ironic, you're a simpleton not on my intellectual wavelength so be thankful I've gone on easy on you, if you were a lot brighter I'd see you as a challenge, but you're not so best you push off, you will be exposed eventually - again.

nothing like the self deluded now go and get your bath its school in the morning

With your poor maths skills displayed in your useless calculations on p&l, school is where you should have stayed.

If you two sat on a big beanbag together smoking a giant Camberwell Carrot while listening to some Van Morrison you'd soon be best of pals I reckon.

Unfortunately, I agree that the FA cup is passed it's sell-by date but I think that against all odds, the league cup has become a decent competition. It's a much more interesting format than the FA and throws up better games.

dizzydavid - data systems /freight rover/full members/johnstone paints/mothercare cup

get rid of that one if you want fewer games

why they don't affect the top divisions, it gives the clubs in lge 1 & 2 the chance of a day at Wembley.

Jan 26, 2014 -- 1:38PM, efisio. wrote:

I'd much rather they scrap the pointless England team.

Definitely.

oldest cup comp in the world   and i hear some people on this thread saying it is past it,s sell buy date ?????????????

It's a sad state of affairs when the top dozen teams in the English leagues:

- Don't want to have a full-on attempt to win the League Cup
- Don't want to have a full-on attempt to win the FA Cup
- and mutterings now, about, is it really worth qualifying for the Europa Leagues
(finishing 5th to 7th 'we'll take the Prem Lge money, but do we really need all those European trips?')

Once again though, it may be a sad state of affairs, but like most things wrong with football, it's down to the FA. They were the idiots who decided to allow the best team in the country to have a year off, and they were the idiots who decided that the final would be held in a foreign country for a few years.

The Europa Cup is a different matter - that competition is an absolute scourge for anyone who takes part in it, regardless of the piffling amount of money a club can earn for the extra 500 games involved in winning it. Almost every English club that has played in it has suffered in terms of their League performance while they are in it.

mesmer, you say at one point, after noting how the big clubs don't rate the cups these days, ' . ...got to accept reality, and adapt..'  - thats true, but only as far as it goes : the viewpoint that goes further is the one that includes ourselves.  So, my position is not to go 'the cups aren't important nowadays ... I accept that.' but 'the cups aren't important these days ... i don't accept that, I shall act accordingly'.

e.g. if I have a choice of matches to go to, i'll go to the Cup game, not the league game - deliberately withold my $$ from the gate reciept for the league game  - that way a message is sent to the club, very much in the language thay speak, money.   If a few thousand people do this obvious thing,  you'll make yorself heard loud and clear.

- no room at this point for fear either : no 'ooh what if I'm the only one, my message won't get across then etc, '

The point though surely is that because very few other people think like you do about the subject, mesmerised is right.

You can make your stand, and fair play to you for doing so, but you're p*ssing in the wind.

no jed no !  this isn't even just how you should treat your club, it's how you should treat your life!  You do what you believe to be right, without fear or favour (as it's called).  Even if your your outnumbered a million to one, the right way to be is to do what you know to be right.

As I said, fair play to you for making your stand. Even though I don't agree with you, there is a certain nobility in it.

Coach, I understand about getting rid of the FLT but that would lose us the chance of a Wembley Final and anyway my main point was that the end result of your idea would be to make it much harder for teams outside the prem to draw one of the big teams. If we're going to tamper with the FA Cup format why not do it the other way around, why not make the prem and championship enter in the first round? Why does everything always have to be about helping out the big teams, don't they get enough help already? All this Respect campaign stuff, what about a "Respect the 92" campaign?

I'm with the pro-FA Cup people, for me it still has a certain magic and long may it last.

Besides, I want my team to win it this year....

It's a trophy though mike, and Arsenal don't win trophies any more.

thankyou jed - I've always been a willing martyr for a  good enough cause.

right -i'm gonna end this debate


why all the wailing and crying from lower league teams about top clubs not playing a full side


That is to your ADVANTAGE !

If top sides arent taking it seriously then pray tell, why was the last team from the CHAMPIONSHIP to win the cup was West Ham in 1980

and that side was a Premier league team in all but status -had around 5 internationals ffs


So where are all thse teams from the lower leagues >? they should be getting to the final ,no ?

a few short seasons ago i believe the last 8 were ALL from the top league


Man City put out a makeshift side on Saturday and effectively gave Watford a 0-2 lead -  Man city then brought on the big guns


That is all Man city need do - they are playing to their strenghths

why use a sledgehammer to crack a walnut ?

no more whining

Premier league clubs don't owe you a living 

Coach...Who from the lower leagues is wailing and crying about top clubs not playing a full side ? I'm certainly not and I never have done.

Premier clubs don't owe us a living? That's obvious, I've never said they do. Sometimes we help each other, Scezney learning all about playing first team football at Brentford is a good example, it was clearly beneficial for both us and Arsenal.

Premier league clubs always win the FA Cup? Well there's a surprise, teams that cost hundreds of millions against teams that cost a tiny fraction of that, with the former winning the cup each year, what a shock that is.

Last season my team, which cost about £100,000 in transfer fees, led twice against a Chelsea team stuffed full of multi million pound international players including most of their first choice players, and came within 6 minutes of knocking them out. Not only that, even the most ardent Chelsea fan would have to admit we deserved the draw. It was good day,a cracking game, we all enjoyed it, and the two ties earned us a few quid. It wasn't our "cup final" as fans of big teams so often patronisingly call it, we played many more important matches than the two against Chelsea last season, but it was a good occasion. But we earned the right to be there, by winning in the 1st and 2nd round, no-one was doing us a favour by letting us play them. Respect the tradition, respect the 92 and stop looking at every debate from the perspective of "how can we benefit the big teams", that's my view.

Also Coach, what does "right I'm going to end this debate" mean? Surely you're not so arrogant as to think that you've got the right to give the final opinion and that's the end of the matter? You don't normally come across like that on here, you usually come across as fair minded and understanding that other posters can have opinions different from yours.

"Man City put out a makeshift side on Saturday and effectively gave Watford a 0-2 lead -  Man city then brought on the big guns"



Aguero, Toure, Dzeko, Navas..........not exactly what i'd call makeshift. Had pretty much their full strength side out considering Negredo, Silva and Navas were injured.

Jan 27, 2014 -- 4:31PM, dizzydavid1 wrote:

Also Coach, what does "right I'm going to end this debate" mean? Surely you're not so arrogant as to think that you've got the right to give the final opinion and that's the end of the matter? You don't normally come across like that on here, you usually come across as fair minded and understanding that other posters can have opinions different from yours.

quite so. normally a very reasonable fellow.  while I'm at it , would anyone like to comment on my point that if you dislike the downgrading of the cup's, you should make a point of going to a cup game rather than a league game.  Send a message - the kind they understand best - thru' the gate receipts ?  If enough did this , the message would be read loud and clear.

i.e. don't go to the league game immediately before and after the cup match - cast your vote with the cash from your wallet for the cup game.

they would bend to our will faster than you could say cheese if they felt revenue was threatened.

DM...that might not be a bad idea in principle but I doubt it would have much impact unless it was well organised by supporters groups to get enough fans on board. Also, it's probably only appropriate if it's targeted at a club that you think has "downgraded the cup".

thank you gentleman for your kind comments - it was in part a bit of a wind up on my behalf -ypou should know me by now   

i don't think the gap between the premier league and the championship/league one  is as great asnyou all like to think it is maybe ?   but i still don't understand some folk complaining about threadbare sides though from the big 4/5   maybe the real reason for attending is to see the big stars 

then you get these reporters who announce a shock ,or Sheff Utd almost creating a mighty shock against Fulham-

but Sheff Utd were favourites you ,you morons 

Poor crowds, a lot of second string teams and not even Jose can be bothered anymore

Personally think it's the Premier League that's pointless. 380 games a season to find out which one of 4 teams wins it.  16 teams (17 if you include Arsenal) start the season without a hope of winning anything.

Seriously, what is the point? Let the big money teams bugger off to a European league and what's left would be far more competitive.

If I were a supporter of say, Aston Villa, where success if finishing out of the bottom 3, I would give up.

Lucky Arsenil is still in the FACup, its their only chance of any silverware and to stop being the sole club in Europe who has a mega money stadium over 60,000 seats and no trophy won since they have had it.

load of nonsense. the fa cup is one of the biggest tournaments going. its simply not true that the "big" clubs dont take it seriously. out of the last 18 winners, only 2 have not been man utd, chelsea, arsenal, liverpool or man city. thats a pretty clear indication the big clubs do take it seriously. its a case of almost every club has to rest players. they also have to give game time to fringe or reserve players. the cups are the logical time to do this. "big" clubs dont take it too seriously in the early rounds, but neither do any other clubs because you dont think about winning a tournament when theres still 64 clubs or more left in it. the nearer the final, the more seriously you take it no matter how big a club you are. even league one and league two clubs rest players in the cup. its not that they want to, they just have to cos theres too many matches.

the real problem is the other competitions taking up too much time in the schedule. the league cup is pretty irrelevant to everybody, the paint pot thing is the biggest waste of time imagineable and the european competitions have far too many matches purely to squeeze as much money as possible out the tv rights.

As an Arsenal fan, do you still think it's "time to scrap the pointless FA Cup" Mesmerised?

Typical of big clubs supporters - why don't we scrap the league and just have 20 team national league with no relegation no Fa Cup (our national football trophy) . Buy in all our talent from other countries and blow lots of money at buying average prima donnas. Yeah why not do that, theres progress for you.