Fair enough definition Ayers. Now explain how you think Wilshire fits into that squad please.

Wilshere performs a certain role, he is an attacking midfield whose job it is to to create not score, his movement going forward when in top form is just phenomenal, his awareness of those around, his precision in threading passes and anticipation in seeing patterns of play before they happen is off the scale, it doesn't get recognised or acknowledged on that scale by the masses because the so called expert pundits have about as much vision as stevie wonder, yes they hype him but with no execution leaving posters like you to believe its just that, hype, I watch a lot of off the ball stuff whilst everyone is watching the white round thing move like moths to a flame, I know a a good player when I see one and Jack future sir wilshere is a legend in waiting, it doesn't help his cause that at a club and international level he is by n large surrounded by sacks of shyte. Lo

good call by the OP btw

Mediocre Team v Hodgson Team never likely to be a thriller

who cares i havent sat down and thoroughly thought through a definition for world class, you can be world class and not be in the best 24 in the world, but the best 24 comes down to preference/opinion

a world class player in general is a player who is simply widely regarded as being someone who is an expert in his position and rivalled by very few and could play in in any top club in the world,, which is why ithink wilshere cole and gerrard fit that bill

Would be so many that there is nothing to choose between for certain positions so you couldn't really say 1 was world class and the other 2 or 3 weren't .

I dont see it as some exclusive club restricted by some arbitrary number, why cant there be 20-30 world class players in a world of 6 billion people, just like there are maybe 20-30 players who could possible get a game for england. They would then be england or international class players.

If there are nothing between the top 2-3 forwards in the world why would you be against calling all three the best in the world, or "world class"?

That must be one of the poorest international games ever,England were very poor but if pos they were worse,England came out on top by 2shots to 1 wow!

you didn't say who montenegro play in the last round cos if they beat england then they're challenging ukraine for a top of the table finish.

It's pretty irrelevant whether England qualify for the World Cup - everyone makes a song and dance about it, but it's almost exactly the same situation as Arsenal and their 'proud record' of qualifying for the Champions League. Sure, they might qualify, but they might as well not bother.

Slightly? The last one was ruined by our ineptitude. Hodgson should be made to sit through our three group games on a loop until he realises that Milner, Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney et al are not the answer. Then he should have to watch last night's game again and again, and then he should be shot in the face.

hitmanhearn 11 Sep 13 06:34 
If you think England were more fluid in 2004 than 1998 you have problems imo.



In 98 we only actually beat Tunisia and Colombia and lost to Romania. People think we were better than we were because we played well against the Argies.

I enjoyed 2004, should've beaten France then with Rooney on top form we tore the Swiss and Croatia apart. I don't recall us playing such good football at a major tournament since. Would've beaten Portugal too imo if it wasn't for Rooney's injury.

Campbell had late 'goals' disallowed in both those games too! Argies and Portugal

"I think you're right about that biscuit, Portugal wouldn't have scored against us if that game had lasted a week. "

It finished 2-2 

england completely lost the initiative in that game when eriksson astonishingly replaced the injured rooney with darius vassell

if you asked me to stick my neck out i'd go for a bore draw against montenegro and then a win against poland

might still be enough to win the group. in all the handwringing abot wednesday's game what's been lost is how poor and unmambitious ukraine were too. england looked in no real danger of conceding. couldn't be confident of them beating poland