Nani Sending Off

the defender was too brave for his own good both lads had their eyes focused on the ball,a yellow should of been the call.

when i first saw it thought yellow, saw it again and its not clever. watching ssn this morning and they are listing laws ( as well as character assasination of ref ) and think ref has got it right.

Retired referee Dermot Gallagher on BBC Radio 5 live: "[The decision was] harsh to say the least, but in fairness the Real player did Nani no favours whatsoever. At worst Nani catches the underside of his arm, certainly not the ribs as the guy has gone down and shown.
"I can't reiterate enough that he [Nani] is watching the ball over his shoulder, there was no malice in him. At worst it was a yellow for dangerous play, but if I was refereeing that game I cannot see by what stretch of the imagination I would have sent him off for that."

defo straight red,nani was leading with his studs into the players mid rift compleatly missing the ball,no excuse ferguson can have no complaints about that why hes moaning is beyond me

There's no point discussing the rights and wrongs of the Nani incident as the other threads have done it to death.

However, I am surprised that so many people seem to think 'dangerous play' of this kind now equates to a straight red.  Accidental collisions happen countless times a match which could be construed as potentially dangerous but go unpunished.  Every time a player raises his arms jumping for a header, raises his boot to block a cross or a goalkeeper going for a punch and missing.  None of these should be red but this new broad interpretation of dangerous play some people seem to think is now in the law would result in 3/4 reds per game.  Thankfully mot refs don't take the same view.

thought it should have been a yellow but its not as bad a decision as the press seem to be making it out to be

Albeol should have gone for an intentional straight leg high challenge on Evra but was only yellow carded,yellow should have been the call,M Utd were reasonably comfortable at the time,no way 10 v 11 at this level and I,m no M Utd supporter.

"no way 10 v 11 at this level and I,m no M Utd supporter."

Didn't Chelsea have Terry sent off last year and still go through? Perefctly possible and the really good sides rise and feed off these adversities. We just went to pieces - cannot believe how poor we were in the 10 minutes or so after this.

I got to admit, Real Madrid were robbed, I thought Rafael should have been sent off too, even Graham Poll said so aswell.

you're watching it in slow motion and think you are seeing something that isnt there...Nani is colliding with Arbeloa the moment he realises he's there, anything that happens in the split second between that and hitting the ground is just instinctual self-protection and not premeditated

berto77 nose

Liverpool 1 Man Utd 2 - Shelvey sent off 'controversially', Utd win with a ropey penalty decision.
Chelsea 2 Man Utd 3 - Ivanovic & Torres sent off 'controversially'
Man Utd 1 Real Madrid 2 - Nani sent off 'controversially'

What goes around, comes around!

Kung Fu Nani.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 8:29AM, Latalomne wrote:

Retired referee Dermot Gallagher on BBC Radio 5 live: "[The decision was] harsh to say the least, but in fairness the Real player did Nani no favours whatsoever. At worst Nani catches the underside of his arm, certainly not the ribs as the guy has gone down and shown."I can't reiterate enough that he [Nani] is watching the ball over his shoulder, there was no malice in him. At worst it was a yellow for dangerous play, but if I was refereeing that game I cannot see by what stretch of the imagination I would have sent him off for that."

I heard that quote, as well.  Gallagher had the benefit of a slow-mo and various angles to make that quote and should know better.  At speed with a ball moving and two players running, both spinning on impact, he would have no idea where the boot hit.

Unfortunately, there is no 'yellow' option in the rules and it is straight to the showers.

say Nani was a goalkeeper and the player ran into his outstretched leg when jumping for the ball 99 times out of a hundred Nani gets the free kick

OP - you are correct ... dirty fooker.

SSN showing similar incidents in the PL which were red cards. I don't think intent has anything to do with it, nor was there any. I don't think something like that should be allowed to ruin the biggest game of the season so far and ought to be a yellow only. But under the rules I don't think nani can complain. European refs have always treated certain offences differently but even PL refs have sent players off for very similar offences.

The rules regarding 'dangerous play' does not mention 'accidental/intentional'. Penalty for a 'dangerous play' is a red card and the referee applied the rule the way he saw it. He didn't rush his decision and I am sure he discussed it with the linesman before showing the red card.

In EPL big teams usually get away with murder so I was shocked and couldn't belief what happened. There is no doubt in my mind that was a good decision and fair play to him not bottling him.

regardless of whether it was a red card or not,

the manner in which he gave it was very bizarre.  He is obviously listening to someone on his headpiece, he then waits for Nani to get up, during this time both sets of players try to influence his decision.

Out of nowhere he then issues a red card.

I wonder if he would have sent Nani off if he was stretchered off

I also wonder who really made the decision as we have seen this happen lots of times now where they seem to consult with someone  before dishing out reds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4NQsphCWQY

^^^ Have to admit it looks worse there from the different angles. Ref got it spot on.

The sad thing is that instances like this just show how thick and emotionally driven the majority of this country is (or at least footy fans). Sad

Surely the despicable act in this scenario is the action of Rio F. He blatantly aplauded the ref, so near was he that he almost touching the refs face.  Should face some retrespective action.

Anybody who is a true football fan knows that this was never a red. Majority of those complaining either never watch games besides on ITV and so know nothing about the sport or simply lack the intellectual ability to see how it wasn't a red.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 8:52AM, remedy_the_malady wrote:

"no way 10 v 11 at this level and I,m no M Utd supporter."Didn't Chelsea have Terry sent off last year and still go through? Perefctly possible and the really good sides rise and feed off these adversities. We just went to pieces - cannot believe how poor we were in the 10 minutes or so after this.

Completely ridiculous thing to say, you sound like a glory hunter. The Terry situation was different as the red was deserved. You try playing against Madrid when you've just felt and experienced such a HUGE sense of injustice. it isn't so damn easy. :)

Mar 6, 2013 -- 9:36AM, SHAPESHIFTER wrote:

Mar  6, 2013 --  8:29AM, Latalomne wrote:Retired referee Dermot Gallagher on BBC Radio 5 live: "[The decision was] harsh to say the least, but in fairness the Real player did Nani no favours whatsoever. At worst Nani catches the underside of his arm, certainly not the ribs as the guy has gone down and shown."I can't reiterate enough that he [Nani] is watching the ball over his shoulder, there was no malice in him. At worst it was a yellow for dangerous play, but if I was refereeing that game I cannot see by what stretch of the imagination I would have sent him off for that."I heard that quote, as well.  Gallagher had the benefit of a slow-mo and various angles to make that quote and should know better.  At speed with a ball moving and two players running, both spinning on impact, he would have no idea where the boot hit.Unfortunately, there is no 'yellow' option in the rules and it is straight to the showers.

Referee should head to specsavers then. I watched it live and immediately thought 'yellow' but was hoping for not even that. You'd have to be blind to not see Nani watching the ball as he was ran, it was truly a shocking decision.

Sorry Flying you were talking rubbish last night and you still are. The vast majority think it was at the very least foul and yellow card with many falling between a yellow and a red. The rules clearly say it should be a red card and that is what he got. What you are talking about is misguided. And we are not all non football, Man Utd hating back seat viewers.

Anybody who is a true football fan knows that this was never a red. Majority of those complaining either never watch games besides on ITV and so know nothing about the sport or simply lack the intellectual ability to see how it wasn't a red.

On the contrary anyone who watches any amount of continental games will know reds are given regularly for that kind of challenge.

Certainly nobody can say they've never seen someone sent off for something similar before now.

anyone who tought that was a red knows nowt about the game just like that idiot roy keane,,and i hate man utd

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km8FEOISmXg   Check out the Van Persie one.

Crazy response from boyce,implying that people don't know the rules.In an interview with P Collina,UEFA's ref watcher at the game,and one of the best refs. over many years,was under no doubt whatsoever that the ref. got it right.
The phone-in after the game was a joke,supporters saying English refs. are the best around,yet slag them off every week.The comments were very racist,questioning the abilities of a Turkish guy to be handed a big match,suggesting that he couldn't be up to the job.
  Meanwhile ,when  callers supported the ref's decision,they were accused by the presenter of the show on 1089 radio,of just trying to be smug!!!!How stupid can you get!
  A reminder to United supporters of the inept performance of Clattenburg at Stamford Bridge earlier in the season,deciding Torres had dived,2nd yellow,and sent off.No complaints there from United supporters,although their player admitted afterwards that he clipped Torres.
  It is always a shame when there is a red,and a team is down to ten men,but no good bleating about this one,as it was correct.

The compere also took calls from supporters claiming Roy Keane should stand by United.In other words forget that he is well paid to give HIS VIEWS,just side with his ex paymaster on everything,even if wrong.
I wonder why some of these callers phone up when they spout a load of tosh.

if Nani had performed the same manoeuvre and controlled the ball with Arbeloa  20 yds up the pitch, not a single person would be claiming it was potentially dangerous play ...therefore the rules as they were interpreted last night penalise misfortune rather than intent, which is silly...what with 'ball-to-hand' incidents routinely being called 'stonewall penalties' these days, i really cant see the point in me making any further emotional/financial investment in a game which is being reduced to a lottery.

If Nani had done that off a football pitch he would have been arrested for assault. He was lucky just to be sent off. He should be banned for at least as long as Joey Barton. And as for Rio and his clapping like a seal in the refs face... he should never be allowed to play football again. Ferguson should be stripped of his knighthood for continually not talking to the media when they lose.

Add to that Ryan Giggs being exalted as a fantastic guy,conveniently forgetting his attrocious betrayal.
No doubt about his footballing abilities over many years,but as a person,NO WAY.

Duncan what's that got to do with it? If a defender slides in foot up with no opponent within 20 yards that wouldn't be potentially dangerous either. Fact is if your foot is that high and makes contact with an opponent you risk getting a red.

the point is it reduces it luck, whether there's someone there or not...Nani didnt have eyes in the back of his head so if he's lucky and there's no-one there he controls it and not an eyelid is batted...but if he's unlucky and defender is there, red card...but he's making the same movement, so it has to be as potentially dangerous either way if he doesnt know

If Nani thought he was in the clear why the extravagent move to bring the ball down. That is not the usual move by anyone during the match. He should have let it bounce or control it nerer the ground. I suggest he knew full well Arbeola was coming nd tried to claim it before he arrived but completely misjudged it.

Point still stands. If a defender slides in and studs the ball out for a throw with the nearest opponent a couple of yards away there's no issue. If there's another player on the end of the challenge it becomes a problem.

It's the making contact with the opponent that's all important. If that raised foot had kicked 6 teeth out is Arbeloa just unlucky to be in the wrong place at the wrong time or does the fault lay with Nani for having his foot raised that high in the first place?

How the hell is he going to let it bounce!  It was 6 foot in the air.

It was a perfectly natural way for a player with his talent and athleticism to bring the ball down.

He looked round earlier to see if there was a Real player near him.  If he thought there was he would have tried to win it with this head.

In fact he wouldn't haven't made that move for the ball with his leg out in midair if he knew there was a player behind him as he would have been vulnerable to being clattered.

the ref is not receiving much criticism anywhere other than the UK and SSN. People seem surprised but a red card was appropriate under the rules. I don't think that a contest should be ruined by something like nani's challenge and in that sense the red card is harsh, but that is an issue with the rules rather than with the ref. ref made the correct decision under the rules, a brave one against a home team and one that is consistent with previous treatment of those challenges. He is a very experienced ref, sent terry off against barca last year, has reffed istanbul derbies etc.

I thought it was on the way down. Goodness me my mistake. And won it with his head? He lunged at it and would never have reached it with his head. You look at it again and try to tell me that doesn't look cynical.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4NQsphCWQY

Watch this at 1m 38 seconds and tell me that doesn't look dangerous.

Intent is immaterial. The law is quite clear, if his challenge endangers an opponent, he has to go. Just because people get away with acts of reckless endangerment in England, doesn't mean they shouldn't know the law and how it is applied when they're not kicking lumps out of each other in the EPL.

Howard Webb not sending off De Jong in the World Cup final was a similar case. I don't often feel sorry for that blind bald moron, but people have been doing similar things in England since time began. He thought such behaviour was routine, when everyone in the rest of the world outside england knew that it was tantamount to an assault.

The really horrible part of all this is the implied racism about the referee - he's a Turk, therefore what can he know about football? It stinks, Nani was stupid, how comes no-one has asked him why he would take such a flagrantly stupid risk in a game of such importance. And it also allows Ferguson to avoid the most pertinent question of all. What the **** wasa he doing leaving his best player on the bench?

Can't compare De Jong to the Nani incident.  That was an assault!

If that is how the laws are interpreted, any goalkeeper punching a crossed ball when there are players within a yard or so (i.e. all the time)should be sent off.

And, ban any overhead/bicycle kick also.  Maybe, ban any boot above waist height.

Disgraceful behaviour from the Mancs. Should be banned from euro comps for 5 years.

Dangerous play haha the plucky Spaniard rose from the flames like a Phoenix.  Good on him for shaking off a terrible challenge so fast.

Seen it all before, 5 pens v Barca, RVP Sending off, Terry off, all English clubs v Spanish, strange that.

JM won the match last night with the Modric sub but then it shouldn't have got to that point.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 5:30PM, This is for BIG Players only wrote:

Dangerous play haha the plucky Spaniard rose from the flames like a Phoenix.  Good on him for shaking off a terrible challenge so fast. Seen it all before, 5 pens v Barca, RVP Sending off, Terry off, all English clubs v Spanish, strange that.JM won the match last night with the Modric sub but then it shouldn't have got to that point.

You just ignore all the big decisions that have gone for English clubs against Spanish then?

lol terry off - what sport permits you to do what he did? Rollerball, perhaps. Moron.

I now see that Rooney's spectacular overhead kick goal versus City the other year should actually have ben a red card for dangerous play 

it certainly should.

unless in the opinion of tjhe referee the "bycicle kick" posed no danger to anybody.

No doubt all you fools talking about 'dangerous play' being a straight red and that 'intent is irrelevant' agree that Ashley Williams should have been sent off for kicking the ball, accidentally, against van persies head.

By the 'letter of the law' the ref can only give its handball if its deliberate (of which about only 1% are).  The truth is that referees interpret the laws of the game.  The ref last night was entitled to send off Nani but anyone who understands football knows a yellow card would have been sufficient.

to be fair to the ref i believe that they've been instructed to disregard the intent element.

this just goes to show how out of touch with football the legislators are.

anybody whose got any idea about the game would probably deem that as accidental, part of the game, yellow for his carelessness.but the legislature have decided that it dosen't matter whether it's accidental, or on purpose the sanction will be the same [which is ludicrous in the extreme], and referees who don't issue a red will be marked down.

imo this raises a very important question.

who are these lawmakers legislating for?

the fans don't want it reffed that way, neither do the players. it seems to me that they sit there dreaming up interpretations of existing laws in order to give themselves something to do, and a sense of self importance.

Good point mex.  I think they've clearly acted in the interests of fans in terms of the changes to the back pass and offside rule (ie favour the attackers and stop ruling out 30 years screamers if a lazy striker couldn't be bothered to get back on side).  But in relation to fouls they can't seem to distinguish between thuggery and accidental collision in what just about remains a contact sport.

mexicano, "who are these lawmakers legislating for?"

Listen to the interview given by Graham Poll to talksport and you will understand the reason for this law.

They are trying to reduce the injuries to players! It will take time but players will learn not to take any risks. EPL referees will be forced to apply this rule as well.

They changed the offside rules (made it more complex) so that we get more goals. It took time but it's working now and getting more goals.

According to UEFA, last night's referee is favourite to get the Champions League Final match. If he didn't show the red card last night he would have been punished.

Celtic player doing his best to stand on Buffon's feet so that he couldn't jump up for the high cross into the area,and the Juve defender doing his best to get between them,trying to give Buffon a view of the cross,yet our pundits said it was shameful refing when the Celtic player was warned.Our pundits and commentators need to grow up and learn that not everything a British club does against a foreign club is within the rules just because they often get away with it on a Saturday afternoon.I agree some of them are very racist in their views of the opposition,and wrongly always strongly support the British club come what may.
The view that foreign teams,unless it is Barca,don't know what they are doing is so short sighted.
These "pundits" and commentators,should always be neutral,and speak the truth,not fabricate.
  Listen to how the mikesmiths scream when Rooney gets the ball in a bit of space.

A very valid point that the refs can't distinguish between thuggery and solid tackles.  Few appear to understand the game.

I think a lot of the rules are implemented to make it easier for the ref - to take away any judgement or discretion.

If interpreting the rules correctly then a red card, intent is irrelevant as per what the rules state. However and a big however at that some rules can be made by fools allegedly. To me intent should be in the rule and up to the referee the way he sees it. If the rule included intent then the ref may well have awarded a yellow card. Rules need to be looked at and amended imo.

JamDav1982
06 Mar 13 17:33
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    Mar 6, 2013 -- 5:30PM, This is for BIG Players only wrote:


    Dangerous play haha the plucky Spaniard rose from the flames like a Phoenix.  Good on him for shaking off a terrible challenge so fast. Seen it all before, 5 pens v Barca, RVP Sending off, Terry off, all English clubs v Spanish, strange that.JM won the match last night with the Modric sub but then it shouldn't have got to that point.


You just ignore all the big decisions that have gone for English clubs against Spanish then

Name me 5 game changers? Or how many players have been sent off from Barca/RM over the years v english clubs?

Good sensible post Mex.

jed.davison
06 Mar 13 17:33
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lol terry off - what sport permits you to do what he did? Rollerball, perhaps. Moron.


Yeah ok bad example when my point is every English player gets done for varying offences where as B/RM get none or are you
naive enough to think UEFA has no agenda?

Mar 6, 2013 -- 6:53PM, This is for BIG Players only wrote:

JamDav198206 Mar 13 17:33Joined:03 Jul 04| Topic/replies: 6,461 | Blogger: JamDav1982's blog    Mar 6, 2013 -- 5:30PM, This is for BIG Players only wrote:    Dangerous play haha the plucky Spaniard rose from the flames like a Phoenix.  Good on him for shaking off a terrible challenge so fast. Seen it all before, 5 pens v Barca, RVP Sending off, Terry off, all English clubs v Spanish, strange that.JM won the match last night with the Modric sub but then it shouldn't have got to that point.You just ignore all the big decisions that have gone for English clubs against Spanish thenName me 5 game changers? Or how many players have been sent off from Barca/RM over the years v english clubs?

Five decisions that have gone against Spanish for English teams?

1. Higuain goal wrongly disallowed last night
2. Man Utd offside goal vs Barcelona in final
3. Messi stonewall penalty turned down against Arsenal at Nou Camp
4. Messi goal wrongly chalked off for offside against Arsenal
5. No red card for Ballack elbowing Iniesta at Nou Camp

Easy

JD82 you can add the Man U  Barca semi final 2008 (2nd leg)
Scholes pulls Messi down in the first half in the penalty area
Pen and straight red
Not given
Scholes scores 1-0
Man U qualify

In Europe it`s a red whereas in the Prem it`s a yellow at worst.Refs in other countries aren`t as lenient as ours.

And also how would Man U fans reacted if it had been the other way around? They`d have been baying for blood.

Doubt it.  No-one expected a red.

propunter1
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06 Mar 13 18:32 Joined: 22 Dec 05 | Topic/replies: 825 | Blogger: propunter1's blog
mexicano, "who are these lawmakers legislating for?"

Listen to the interview given by Graham Poll to talksport and you will understand the reason for this law.

They are trying to reduce the injuries to players! It will take time but players will learn not to take any risks. EPL referees will be forced to apply this rule as well.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so ; in the near future can we expect goalkeepers punching the ball,and players attempting overhead kicks to be deemed as dangerous play, and the appropriate action taken?

not to mention a player going up to head a football when somebody is close enough for a clash of heads to occur?

JamDav1982
06 Mar 13 18:57
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    Mar 6, 2013 -- 6:53PM, This is for BIG Players only wrote:


    JamDav198206 Mar 13 17:33Joined:03 Jul 04| Topic/replies: 6,461 | Blogger: JamDav1982's blog    Mar 6, 2013 -- 5:30PM, This is for BIG Players only wrote:    Dangerous play haha the plucky Spaniard rose from the flames like a Phoenix.  Good on him for shaking off a terrible challenge so fast. Seen it all before, 5 pens v Barca, RVP Sending off, Terry off, all English clubs v Spanish, strange that.JM won the match last night with the Modric sub but then it shouldn't have got to that point.You just ignore all the big decisions that have gone for English clubs against Spanish thenName me 5 game changers? Or how many players have been sent off from Barca/RM over the years v english clubs?


Five decisions that have gone against Spanish for English teams?

1. Higuain goal wrongly disallowed last night - the forearm smash against RVP? Also play stopped.
2. Man Utd offside goal vs Barcelona in final - Very marginal, talking about half a leg if at all
3. Messi stonewall penalty turned down against Arsenal at Nou Camp - don't remember, take word for it
4. Messi goal wrongly chalked off for offside against Arsenal - the one at Arsenal when already a goal up?
5. No red card for Ballack elbowing Iniesta at Nou Camp - take your word for it

You also seem very quiet on Barca/RM players sent off, is that because there isn't one?

Five big decisions that went against Spanish teams is what you asked for and I named them easily.

There are plenty more - penalty at home for Barcelona turned down against Chelsea, soft red for Abidal against Chelsea, handballs x2 against Arsenal at Emirates, Raphael punching ball away from the line last night, John Terry wrestling Valdes and referee gives goal etc.

There is no conspiracy.  People just forget the ones that go their way.

Mar 6, 2013 -- 8:40PM, berto77 wrote:

There is no conspiracy.

correct

no conspiracy.

merely widespread ineptitude.

These things even happen to Jose and Real Madrid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATCdVve85GU