Mancini - "United have been lucky"

partially agree , they have not been worth a 12 pts margin

still will deserve the Title , they have improved on last year and City have gone backwards due to particular players losing form and poor signings by Mancini in the summer

if you look up the term sour grapes , you would see the above comments, pathetic, absolutely pathetic.

Yes, they are winning lots of games but every win (taking yesterday's as an example) seems to be a game that could have gone either way if the other team had had the rub of the green or put some of their chances away.


They have been the best team by a mile and anybody who believes that nonsense should take up watching a new sport.

You have to admit they are the best side.

Anyone who cant is a seething Man City fan.

When you play bad, but you still win, that means you are champion! If you don't have quality, how do you score late goals?

They have been the best side, that isn't the question, is it?

The question is have they been lucky, or have they played at a level where they would justifiably deserve to be on course to possibly finish with the most points ever in the Premier League (and therefore be said to have a claim to be the best ever Premier League team)

United v City, neutral ground , i'd make that joint favs

United are not a better team, they have played better though this season

Man Utd are easily the best of a poor standard league this year.

The point here is not whether the comments are right or wrong, the point is by saying it you come across as bitter looking for something negative to say to somehow tarnish what the other team have acieved, it's petty and let's mancini down badly.

United still on course for another treble.

You've got to be a good team to be in that position.

grayhawk has it sumed up. Anyway Mancini is a fraud. They should sack him asap. Thought he would be sacked before christmas 2011. They could do better than him.

Given that last season City had next to no injuries, some ridiculous decisions and still could only win it with 2 injury time goals. Only one team "lucky" from Manchester.

Mancini is coming across very bitter. The longer he stays. The happier I'll be.

Is anyone actually going to answer the question at the top of this thread about whether your team has been completely outplayed and come up against a United team that stood out as a different level to anything else played this season?

Or is this going to be the usual idiot Betfair forum carp where internet warriors who never go to watch 'their team' acuse other internet warriors of seething in an attempt to justify their claims of being a fan.

United are a better team because what they have shown this year is resillience unlike city who were bottomed from their efforts of last year, I'd compare it to the behaviour of a racehorse who having to run the race of his life, in future performs at a much lower level because the effort required to win has finished him for the foreseeable future, yes they won it last year but at a huge cost, whereas united gained strength from it, melodrama I know, but true none the less.

lucky that Mancini is citeh's manager that is.

Man U struggled earlier in the season without key defenders, but to call a 12 point gap lucky after 27 games is a bit much.
In response to the question, can you name any game where you think Man U didn't deserve to win?

fergie would say the same thing

Feb 24, 2013 -- 5:29PM, each ways wrote:

Is anyone actually going to answer the question at the top of this thread about whether your team has been completely outplayed and come up against a United team that stood out as a different level to anything else played this season?Or is this going to be the usual idiot Betfair forum carp where internet warriors who never go to watch 'their team' acuse other internet warriors of seething in an attempt to justify their claims of being a fan.

Yes in some games, they have been dominated by other team but they are good at counter attack, so since when counter attack tactic is a luck? You sound like you are trying to make Man City look good despite the fact Man City have many 'luck' as well, remember they have many late goals too? So Man City have must be very lucky at number 2 now

The irony here is that the manager of a side who wins the league on goal average with the last kick of the season is calling a team that's 12 points clear after 27 games lucky!!

they have been behind in lots of games but it's surely not luck that they come back and win them, is it? Once or twice maybe but 10 or more times is no coincidence

just saying it how it is even if it is through gritted teeth

thought this united team was the worst for some years have began to think again about my thoughts.

not as lucky as getting 2 goals in injury time in the last game of the season to go joint top on points and winning the league on goal difference.

I am not asking whether they have been the best team or whether it is impressive to come back or to grind out results. They have been and it is.

I am asking whether, considering that they look on course to be beating records and claiming to be the most dominate team in the league's history, has ANY fan of ANY other team played them and come away thinking "yep, they showed today that they are dominating in a way that some of the great United, Arsenal and Chelsea teams have when they were the best team in this league."

And if they haven't looked like this and dominated teams like this, isn't it therefore fair to say that their points total, compared to past dominant teams who have turned in regular performances that have stood out as a class above, is in some way 'lucky'?

To answer the original poster,being a Liverpool fan i think we should definitely have won the Anfield game and just about deserved a draw at Old Trafford given our dominance second half.

Utd and Ferguson are a winning machine and you have to give them tremendous respect.They'll be completely outclassed against Madrid again but you watch them get a result

each ways 24 Feb 13 17:23 
They have been the best side, that isn't the question, is it?

The question is have they been lucky, or have they played at a level where they would justifiably deserve to be on course to possibly finish with the most points ever in the Premier League (and therefore be said to have a claim to be the best ever Premier League team)



You can look at it that way, or they will be the winners of the worst Premier League there has ever been. The stats don't lie but you make them fit whatever viewpoint you have.

How were they Outclassed against Madrid?

RVP missed 2 sitters and Giggs a good chance.

Madrid had more of the ball yes but utd looked the liklier to score.

Eboue...very little point bringing anything resembling reasoning to threads like these.

Madrid by far the better team,should have won comfortably.

hohohogreengiant
24 Feb 13 17:26
Joined:
28 Aug 11
| Topic/replies: 511 | Blogger: hohohogreengiant's blog
Given that last season City had next to no injuries, some ridiculous decisions and still could only win it with 2 injury time goals. Only one team "lucky" from Manchester.

Mancini is coming across very bitter. The longer he stays. The happier I'll be.


I said similar in the utd thread...the longer he stays the better.

southampton deserved at least a draw at old trafford and some would say they should have won

spurs got a late draw but should really have taken all 3 points

Of course we have been lucky in some games, but we have had a stack of decisions go against us, numerous goals disallowed incorrectly, a supposedly dodgy keeper, loads of injured defenders, a midfield that can't hold a torch to bayern, madrid and barca and an attacker in well beck who doesn't score yet somehow we are on for a record number of points, one of our best ever goals tally and are still going for the treble.

If that makes us a poor team then I will take it. Doesn't say much for the rest of the premiership though.
The only teams I would say are better than us in Europe are the 3 I mentioned and 1 of them could be going out and we could send another out next week.

This is by no means the best united team I have seen, probably be lucky to get in the top 5 united sides in my 25 years of watching them yet it is without doubt the best squad we have had, alongside a manager who simply rises up to and above any challenge or team that is put up,against us.

We should have won the title last year which would have been one of sir Alex's best ever league wins. When arsenal won the league with their invincibles they didn't have as many points as we have now.

For the 1st half of the season we had no defence and seemed to just play well  for short periods of games, just long enough to score enough goals to,win the match. Now the defence is back to normal we are pretty much cruising thru matches without being at our best for the who,e 90 minutes.

We deserved to batter spurs at old Trafford yet somehow lost, we should have lost at anfield, lucky to beat Southampton, lucky to get a draw at spurs but ref missed a clear cut pen that would have put us 2-0 up don't forget.

think with your midfield you will be found out in europe sooner rather than later

Cant disagree with any of that siralex with the exception of it being the best squad.There's nothing there beyond your first 11,imo.

The rest of the Prem should be ashamed they are so far behind a relatively average Utd team.

there were loads of games early on in the season you had no right to win

clarkey.....agrre with that and for that  reason city should get shot of mancini

The lucky 3-2 city victory should have been 3-0 and game over if I remember correctly..had a goal not given....zzzz..people remember what they want to remember....zzzzz.

(Etc)

roy...do you in your heart of heart think this is a  vintage utd team.......if you do then you anything you say is irrelavant

hearts

12 points isnt luck , the team is unbeatable , just ask madrid

Mancini needs to deflect from dismal season where they are the laughing stock of the champ league

I said last season that utd had more strength and quality in depth than City and was laughed out of town...anyone making the same mistake this year is all the more foolish. Nothing outside the starting 11

Last year we were decimated with injuries to key players throughout the season and yet were relatively uneffected. Center midfield the weakness everyone rightly goes on about is one where any of about 6 can play in without the team losing too much.

Not sure about only having a first eleven.

De gea, rafael, vidic, Evans, rio, evra, smelling, jones, carrick, giggs, Anderson, nani, young, Valencia, well beck, Hernandez, Rooney, rvp, cleverly, Kagawa,
I would say those 20 are the main squad.
That's not too mention scholes, lindegaard, fletcher, Powell and buttner. .

I've been saying this for a long time, United have been riding their luck too often and will get knocked out by Madrid at Old Trafford.

The reason why they will by fine margins playing average football is because all the key decisions go their way - and that is down to Rudolph constantly haranguing Refs as we've seen plentiful this season, both Pardrew and Benitez have called him out on it, so if anonymous gamblers opinion hold no water - listen to the Pros.

Either been chasing them down the tunnels at half time or walking straight on to the pitch to berate and intimidate them.

Hope this stating the obvious post helps.

I would really expect mancini to be more sensible than to say united are lucky

Impossible to come to a definite decision re standard.
Either we are miles clear and are brilliant or else we are lucky and miles clear purely because the rest of the league is rubbish.
Could judge it by European success but seeing as Chelsea won it last year and yet are already out along with city this season then that's hardly a reliable yardstick.
Look at our cup draws, Chelsea and Newcastle in the league cup and west ham, fulham, reading and probably chelsea in the fa cup. Most premier teams have gone out to lower league opposition this season in the cups. We only lost to Chelsea 5-4 in extra time.
I will simply say we have the best manager ever seen and we should make the most of him whilst he is still here.

i think swap managers and city would be 12 points clear

siralex,you come across as a resonable Utd supporter which is so rare we should treat your posts like gold.

However,i'd go as far as to say 8-10 of those players are not title winning players.

I've yet to think of a good reason to explain why Mancini was given the job in the first place.

Feb 24, 2013 -- 7:15PM, clarkey wrote:

siralex,you come across as a resonable Utd supporter which is so rare we should treat your posts like gold.However,i'd go as far as to say 8-10 of those players are not title winning players.

Which ones as the majority already have won titles / cls.

Yep, I would say compared to schmeichel, Parker, Irvin, Bruce, pal lister, ince,  robbo, kanchelskis, giggs, Hughes and cantona that this current team isn't a patch on them.
But we seem to be able to get y as there are always 2 or 3 players who turn it on in each game. If it isn't Rooney and Valencia it is van Persie and rio, rafael and giggs, de gea and vidic etc etc. I do think the premier league is poor but a record points total would surely be a huge achievement especially up against Chelsea and city's money made teams.
I know we are good enough with this squad to win the league but I honestly thought we would get destroyed against the big 3 if we played them.
Last season we were battered by 3 or 4 sides in the Europa league let alone the champions league. Athletic Bilbao gave the best display I have ever seen at our place.
I just think we have been treated to so many fantastic sides that we now have standards set too high. If we beat real and Chelsea in the cups and barca go out then the treble is a real possibility.

They're not a vintage team but Prem is dire (Pep knows).  You don't end up 12 points in front of your nearest pursuer by being lucky.  Mancini is just blowing smoke as he's out of his depth; too publicly critical of some of his players - Nasri, Hart, Lescott etc..., too loyal to others - 'Why always me?', too spineless - Tevez.  He'd do well to keep his own counsel.

I don't think it's a vintage United team but I honestly don't give a toss how lucky or unlucky we are as long as we get the job done.


Frankly I enjoy how the likes of Mancini get annoyed about it, rather than worrying about their own team's issues.

I think Utd have a better squad, but City have a better first XI (assuming everyone is fit and in form). However, you need depth to win the title and you need to be able to get results in 2nd/3rd gear. Utd have done this and deserve their position at the top.

They are only lucky in the sense that City have gone backwards. They certainly deserve their lead at the top of the table.

it may not be the best Man U team/squad but I think it's the best Man U have been since Ronaldo left. What they've done this season well is grind out results, their goal difference shows that. I think that 12 points ahead is flattering but they definitely deserve to be at least 6 points ahead, City have been too inconsistent to be any closer

Best combined 11 = DeGea, rafael, vidic, Evans, clichy, Silva, Toure, Carrick, Valencia, Aguero, VanPersie makes Utd a better first 11 and a much better squad with more than one way to play the game; utd deserve to be 12 points clear imo

Mancini the biggest hypocrite alive!! Up to winning the league he and his players had nothing but good fortune, very few injuries, lucky wins and the absolute best one in that final QPR game luckily turning losing to winning in final moments. He should really keep his mouth shut

Feb 24, 2013 -- 10:14PM, skipp wrote:

Best combined 11 = DeGea, rafael, vidic, Evans, clichy, Silva, Toure, Carrick, Valencia, Aguero, VanPersie makes Utd a better first 11 and a much better squad with more than one way to play the game; utd deserve to be 12 points clear imo

Hart, Zabaleta, Vidic, Kompany, Clichy, Silva, Toure, Carrick, Milner, Tevez, RVP is better imo

Would happily take them on with:

De Gea, Evra, Ferdinand, Evans, Raphael, Cleverley, Valencia, Rooney, Young, Chicarito, Aguero

R0ykeane 24 Feb 13 19:06 
I said last season that utd had more strength and quality in depth than City and was laughed out of town.





That's because last year when you made the statement, it wasn't really true.

Then in the summer after winning the league City didn't kick on, their signings overall were pretty poor. Nastasic is a decent prospect but Garcia and Sinclair in for de Jong and Adam Johnson made the squad poorer. United bought RVP and he's made the difference. I'd argue all day long that his signing alone is worth the 12 point difference.

However in answer to the OP, i'd say that yes it probably goes without saying that you need some luck over a season, but you don't win 22 out of 27 games unless you're a good side.

Mancini is just another bad loser. The Prem is littered with them. Pathetic stuff from him as usual. I cant stand the bloke.

I have said for many years, better managers in lower division. Without Calciopoli Inter would never win anything or him. His only rival with such a talent squad was bankrupt Roma who run him close and they did benefit of Juve style helping hands. His excuse is pathetic but he Lazio merda

each way,you talk out of youre arse,QPR have scored 8 goals at home conceded 21,UTD have scored 30 away conceded 16,you do the maths QPR just cant score enough thats why they dont get anything out of their games,UTD cant be lucky all season and when they play badly someone always comes to the fore,utd are worthly winners and mancini just a sore loser

People seem to want to rate how good a team is based purely on talent alone but what they don't appreciate is that this Utd team has great attributes aside from just pure talent. They show great fight, workrate and teamwork especially. So many different players have been involved for Utd this season and most have made great contributions and some stage. They have a squad that can adapt to different challenges. Jones vs Madrid being an example. Vidic agaisnt teams with an aerial threat being another. Four very different strikers who Fergie has rotated brilliantly this season. They may not have dominated games through possession but if you wanna watch a team play like that and bore you to death every week then go watch City. I even find Barca quite boring to watch with their tippy tappy possession football. United are almost always entertaining. They have come back from losing positions so many times this season and for me that is the sign of a great team I hope they go on and beat Madrid to prove some doubters wrong. There is no chance you can call them lucky. That's ridiculous imo. Manicini just knows he's out the door come summer.

Godsend

Milner

pathetic bloke


What is it with most people in football - didn't they got enough attention at school or something ?

Just to clarify for the idiots and armchair 'fans' who think the question is "are they lucky to be winning the league?"

That isn't the question.

I am asking whether, considering that they look on course to be beating records and claiming to be the most dominate team in the league's history, has ANY fan of ANY other team played them and come away thinking "yep, they showed today that they are dominating in a way that some of the great United, Arsenal and Chelsea teams have when they were the best team in this league."

And if they haven't looked like this and dominated teams like this, isn't it therefore fair to say that their points total, compared to past dominant teams who have turned in regular performances that have stood out as a class above, is in some way 'lucky'?

Come on, just a handful of people who can say "yep, we were played off the park by United and they were quite clearly the best team we've come up against."

That's all I'm looking for.

Most United fans I know seem to be in agreement that this United team whilst being good does have more points and a bigger lead than they should have based on their performances in some (several!) of the matches. Whether you call that luck, fortune, or just put it down to determination or hard graft depends on your opinion. Manicini may well believe United are lucky to be so far ahead but at the same time they deserve to be top of the league imo. A recent example was the match at QPR....City whilst being on top and "unfortunate" not to win simply failed to score, United went there and did the business. Other examples are the United win at City..great free-kick from RVP in the final seconds but that aside I felt City deserved something out of the game, but they didn't! I don't think if Mancini was asked about last years final day win against QPR that he would deny there was an element of luck involved in that. I suppose the old saying you create your own luck comes into it and lets face it United create chances at the end of matches and if they score and get the points that's fair play to them imo

Depends how Mancini wants to interpret luck? He want back to the RVP last minute free kick that gave us 3 pts after city came back and looked like they could win the game. Is that luck? Or is luck having a wrongly ruled out goal against you that would have made it 0-3 and killed the game. He also went on about the unlucky fact they've scored less than last season. Once again, is that luck? Or is it a case of bad management and allowing your players to take their eyes of the prize.

Well lets say for example RVP hit the crossbar 10 times in a match...would you say that was unlucky or he couldn't hit a barn door and the manager was poor for picking him ?

The fact is, the position at the head of the league is the dominant factor. This team has all the attributes of any great team united have had. AND they have so far dominated the league better than any other, irrespective of quality of teams.....

Aguero has started 12 matches all season for City due to injuries. Is that unlucky that he got injured or is it part and parcel of the game? I recall when United had players missing last season (Vidic springs to mind) United supporters felt they were unlucky that season with injuries.

correction - Aguero has played 90 minutes in 12 matches

To be fair both United and City squads are big enough to cope with injuries, last year united had loads, city didn't......but that just a mitigating factor. City had very few last season and are feeling what its like this year

DeSSie, I don't think anyone is denying United are rightly at the top of the league on the matches played so far this season or that they shouldn't be there. It was whether or Mancini was right in saying they were lucky. For example it could be said City were lucky with injuries last season but are unlucky this season and visa versa for United. I certainly think United having players out last season (Vidic etc.) was unlucky for United. City so far this season have had Aguero, Silva, Kompany out at various stages, and Yaya for ACN. It's true they both have big squads but there's a big difference in replacing Kompany with Lescott or Garcia with Toure!

Toure with Garcia I mean

Manchester United were lucky to escape with a narrow 2-1 win over Southampton at Old Trafford on Wednesday, Sir Alex Ferguson has admitted.

Good to see SAF agreeing with Mancini

Feb 25, 2013 -- 6:40PM, themover wrote:

Aguero has started 12 matches all season for City due to injuries. Is that unlucky that he got injured or is it part and parcel of the game? I recall when United had players missing last season (Vidic springs to mind) United supporters felt they were unlucky that season with injuries.

There is missing the odd player and there is having almost every defender out so you have to put 2 midfielders in defense. Last year we was unfortunate with injuries. We had the most weeks out on the injury list while city had the least. Did it effect the league. No one will know, but it could be argued we would have picked an extra point up somewhere. 1 point. Not 12.

Perhaps Mancini would have been better using your argument because its defo true that City have missed big players this year, as did united last year. As they say, these things tend to even themselves out!!

That was at the end of the season hoho, this one hasn't finished yet Had some United friends over yesterday to watch the City game, they of course were cheering Chelsea on! To quote one of them "let's hope Chelsea do us a favour". I'm sure if City win all their remaining matches with an injury time goal and nick it SAF will say City were lucky

Last season 1 point equated to 1 week out.

Average was 162 for 2011/12

Man Utd - 305
Man City - 50

I didn't think it was that much of a difference.

What games does Mancini think Man Utd have been lucky in?

The ones where they have scored late winners?

I don't know JamDav, but SAF gave an example after the Southampton game...maybe Mancini just agreed with him

Feb 25, 2013 -- 6:55PM, themover wrote:

That was at the end of the season hoho, this one hasn't finished yet  Had some United friends over yesterday to watch the City game, they of course were cheering Chelsea on! To quote one of them "let's hope Chelsea do us a favour". I'm sure if City win all their remaining matches with an injury time goal and nick it SAF will say City were lucky

I knew fatboy was missing that pen. It was too easy to think you'd drop points again. Its never easy when we are involved. I did the predictor yesterday and I had us winning it by 5. That included us drawing the game at OT.  So still a lot of twitching to go yet.

With their remaining games you'd have to expect near maximum points for City, so if they were to win it again it would be Uniteds own fault, especially as theres a Derby to play

yes DeSSie, we've just got to hope it's not a dead rubber by then

Having said that, Jones and Van Persie injured last week........doesnt take too many more for united to be suffering as city have......and dont forget Vidic has already been missing most of season!!

Feb 25, 2013 -- 6:55PM, hohohogreengiant wrote:

Last season 1 point equated to 1 week out.Average was 162 for 2011/12Man Utd - 305Man City - 50 I didn't think it was that much of a difference.

This season a lot closer so far.

Man Utd - 131
Man City - 114

good stats hoho. I suppose really it's more important who those injuries are to, Kompany, Aguero and Silva are big players for City if it was Lescott, Dzecko and Garcia it wouldn't have as much impact

Feb 25, 2013 -- 7:03PM, themover wrote:

good stats hoho. I suppose really it's more important who those injuries are to, Kompany, Aguero and Silva are big players for City if it was Lescott, Dzecko and Garcia it wouldn't have as much impact

Yeah it would be better if it was broken down.

the mover dzeko has scored some important goals this season!!

#ManciniMustStay