Rafa vs Moyes: Who is the better manager?

Benitez, not only for the success he has had but also because Moyes would never even get the jobs he's had.

difficult to compare as theyve faced different challenges but have both been successful in each route, rafa has done two special things however, winning the la liga with a team that wasnt madrid or barca, and taking a squad with djimi traore and winning the champions league

Rafa consistently outwitted Moyes, even in 2009-10 season in Goodison when Kyrikioas was ridiculously sent off for Liverpool, they still went on to win 1-0, Moyes **** up many situations when up against him.

taking a squad with djimi traore and winning the champions league

Precisely.

why are you comparing two managers who have had two different resources?

Benitez is by far a more successful manager than Moyes

but has he been able to stay at a job as long as Moyes had, or made shrewd signings like Moyes did?

comparing the two is silly

its like comparing Batman to Robbie Savage for greatest superhero.

its like comparing Batman to Robbie Savage for greatest superhero.

?

Batman is a superhero while RS clearly isn't.

Both Rafa and Moyes are PL managers. The question makes perfect sense.

it makes no sense

its someone trying to demean the achievements of another manager because he has had less resources to work with

you argue that benitez won champions league with djimi traore, yet moyes was one of the first managers to break the 'sky 4' reaching the champions league with a strike force consisting of marcus bent and james beattie.

Of course they can be compared. Moyes has probably reached the highest level he can, he wouldn't be offered the jobs that Benitez has taken.

Moyes would have been the next Manchester United manager under previous incantations of English football club owners, but he won't get a sniff to new world owners who want big names.

he'd be considered a contender for the man utd job when it becomes available, whereas benitez wouldn't get a sniff.

so what does that mean?

considering man utd are the biggest supported team in the world

moron

are liverpool, are valencia, are chelsea? no

The fact that you are making valid points for both, means the question IS meaningful.

Can you really not see that?

Try and make similar points for and against Batman/Savage and you'll find that the comparison of two managers is not quite the same argument.

superman wears tim cahill pyjamas, jog on.

touchy!

Who are you calling moron, you devoid of logic fukkwit?

Who would you want managing your club now?

It wouldn't be the waiter that's for sure.

ye i mean its not like we lost 2-0 at home to swansea

moyes done superb job but needs to win a trophy before long

Rafa consistently outwitted Moyes, even in 2009-10 season in Goodison when Kyrikioas was ridiculously sent off for Liverpool, they still went on to win 1-0, Moyes **** up many situations when up against him

rafa constantly outwitted moyes !
Nothing to do with the £200m squad that rafa had at his disposal then ?

Moyes.

it is a silly question.

one has been operating at the highest level with loads of money to spend, while the other has operated at the other end of the financial market.

there is vey little common ground to enable a comparison to be made.

now if you're asking who would have done better

lpool with moyes in charge v everton with benetese. that could promote a proper debate.

Very good question mex and i honestly dont know.

Im secretly a huge fan of Moyes and would have loved him at Liverpool after Rafa and/or Roy.

It would have been interesting to see if he would have taken the job if offered

Mexicano gets it right, different managers operating in completely different circumstances
Rafa has generally had money to spend, Moyes hasnt, least nowhere near as much (yes Moyes has spent, but its always been self generated - X sold to fund Y, Y sold to fund Z etc).
But then Rafa has no doubt had to deal with more pressure of circumstance, at Inter for example.

There arent many managers I'd rather have at Everton than Moyes, and Benitez certainly isnt one of them. Thats not to say I think he is ****, I just dont think he could operate as well in our circumstances. Could Moyes operate at Chelsea or City? Who knows, he has spent well at times, but also sometimes when he has had money from Sales (Lescott for example) he hasnt necessarily spent well.

Rafa has won things, does it make him the better manager, well if thats the only metric yes, and by the same metric Mancini is better than Rafa and Sir Alex is the greatest manager ever, etc.

Until Moyes leaves Everton then it's hard to say just how good he is. He's got Everton as a good, consistent team but it's taken him a few years to get there. They were a bit up and down in his first few seasons.

He has a tough job in terms of the financial constraints at Everton, but then again there is no real pressure to perform. To be espoused as a miracle worker, he has to finish 6-7th each season and not win anything.

At the other end of the scale, at a club like Real Madrid, finishing 2nd is a failure.

Benitez has operated at the highest level of club competition (Champions League) and won it. Aside that, he has the La Liga title with Valencia. He's also had his failures.

I can take a guess that Benitez would do ok at Everton, but maybe not as good as Moyes. But I genuinely can't guess at how Moyes would handle the pressure of expectation that would come with a top job.

Two good managers, but Benitez is better imo.

Has a manager ever spent longer at a top division club without winning a trophy

Moyes is without doubt one of the best managers not to manage a club with a decent spending budget, if he did i am sure he would enhance his reputation.  Rafa, made some good signing over the years but plenty of poor ones, man management which plays a vital role as a manager these days would be edged by Moyes.

his achievments with Valencia says it all, he won the CL with Liverpool and was building a team that was genuine title contenders, unfortuneately he had the worst possible owners and the team he built had to be broken up.

Moyes is a very good manager but before long he has to actually win something.

Rafa for me.

Both started off managing smaller lower league clubs.

Rafa has won la liga and the champions league. He has managed three big clubs.

Moyes has done a steady job at Everton but never tempted one of the big dogs to take him.

quite bizarre that people feel they cannot be compared. Benitez has won honours at four different clubs and his Champions League win and final appearance with Liverpool surely tops Moyes' EPL finishes. Moyes also has a very poor record in Europe.

It's not Rafa's fault that Moyes has no ambition and has only managed small clubs.

is it a lack of ambition or is it that he is determined to see a job through (I wont bite at the small club jibe)

I prefer that to a 2 yr manager like Mourihno who comes in, spends a couple of hundred million and then p!sses off leaving no long term structure in place

IMO Moyes is the best thing that could have happened to Everton in years - without him they would probably be fighting to get out of the Championship. Probably the most dignified manager in the Prem. Well paid - seems content - team performing at a high level. What he has achieved with limited resources is the equal of Ferguson.

Rafa is something of a mercenary but feel he would like to have stayed at Anfield for both professional and personal reasons. Difficult to compare them - both good mangers.

IMO Moyes is the best thing that could have happened to Everton in years - without him they would probably be fighting to get out of the Championship. Probably the most dignified manager in the Prem. Well paid - seems content - team performing at a high level. What he has achieved with limited resources is the equal of Ferguson.

Rafa is something of a mercenary but feel he would like to have stayed at Anfield for both professional and personal reasons. Difficult to compare them - both good mangers.

Moyes will not manage United, Citeh, or Chelsea. He will not manage in Germany, Italy, or Spain. The guy is stuck at the Toffees with the only lifeline being the very faint possibility of the Arsenal job. But even McClaren won a trophy with Boro, and Roy took Fulham to the Europa League final. Moyes lack of a trophy and his failure in Europe is damming when being considered for top jobs. The poor guy's dancing on the glass ceiling.

moyes builds teams,benitez ruins them.

taking a squad with djimi traore and winning the champions league


This achievement isnt regarded as it should.
How BAD that team was.........TERRIBLE


GK     1     Poland Jerzy Dudek
RB     3     Republic of Ireland Steve Finnan (5HIT)       
CB     23     England Jamie Carragher (5HIT)            
CB     4     Finland Sami Hyypiä
LB     21     Mali Djimi Traoré (5HIT)       
DM     14     Spain Xabi Alonso
RM     10     Spain Luis García (5HIT)       
CM     8     England Steven Gerrard (c)
LM     6     Norway John Arne Riise (5HIT)       
SS     7     Australia Harry Kewell      (5HIT)           
CF     5     Czech Republic Milan Baroš (5HIT)

Lol and they call us bitter, seriously take a look in the mirror. Rafa won the champs league with some VERY dodgy decisions all the way through and with someone else's team. He then went to inter and turned a champs league,Italian league champions double winning team into utter dross. He then went to Chelsea and has been the worst manager of the roman era. Say what up like about Moyes but I'd bet my bottom dollar less than 1% of evertonians would swap him for rafa who is a bit of a laughing stock nowadays.

Martin. I'm all for people having differing opinions, but at least base them on the facts. People talk about the 'jammy' CL win with GH's side and forget the rest of his tenure. We were the top ranked team in the whole competition from 2005-2010. Ahead of Barca, Real Madrid, Utd, Chelsea, everyone. 5 years is a decent period of time to run out of luck wouldnt you say?

Nobody who looks at the facts can say anything other than Rafa's European record was phenomenal.

Which bit of what I posted isn't true?

Martin, Im sure you dont need me to spell it out...

You suggested he didnt deserve the credit for the CL win (which is frankly hilarious), as it was someone else team, and we had several dodgy decisions You must appreciate how pathetic that sounds? And then conveniently ignored the rest of the CL record.

Like you said all about opinions I ain't going to change yours and you ain't going to change mine lol lets leve it at that

As a neutral Moyes is far superior to that paella mucnching, facht ranting, bad rotation loving mug Benetez.

CCM lets face it the three luckiest teams ever to win the Champions league by a million miles are all English, UTD VS Munich & Chelsea Liverpooll VS Milan and Chelsea Vs Munich, that is totally unbiased and true.

Im not arguing with that Kai, just sticking up for rafa's overall CL record. Everyone uses our win as their proof he was just lucky, but forget the ensuing 4 seasons, where he got to another final and 2 semis.

He did OK by you but left you in a mess and as i have stated before any manager who would swap Barry for Alonso is not who i would want as manager, he has made some very poor signings while at Liverpool.

No point us discussing it I dont think. But he certainly did not leave us in a mess.

Jan 16, 2013 -- 2:36PM, chelseakai1 wrote:

He did OK by you but left you in a mess and as i have stated before any manager who would swap Barry for Alonso is not who i would want as manager, he has made some very poor signings while at Liverpool.

OMG, here we go with this argument again, another s*n newspaper reader i take it?

I get sick of these fans of small clubs trying to tell a world renowned manager how to do his job

seems to me Moyes has found himself a nice little comfortable niche. No real expectations of him - 7th place finishes seem satisfactory enough. And the last figures I saw he was the joint 11th best paid manager in the world!

Jan 16, 2013 -- 1:05AM, Diamond_Joe_Quimby wrote:

taking a squad with djimi traore and winning the champions league This achievement isnt regarded as it should.How BAD that team was.........TERRIBLEGK     1     Poland Jerzy DudekRB     3     Republic of Ireland Steve Finnan (5HIT)        CB     23     England Jamie Carragher (5HIT)             CB     4     Finland Sami HyypiäLB     21     Mali Djimi Traoré (5HIT)        DM     14     Spain Xabi AlonsoRM     10     Spain Luis García (5HIT)        CM     8     England Steven Gerrard (c)LM     6     Norway John Arne Riise (5HIT)        SS     7     Australia Harry Kewell      (5HIT)            CF     5     Czech Republic Milan Baroš (5HIT)

I think Djimi is the only truly 5HIT player on that list, unless I'm confused and you mean something about being 5 x Champs?

Moyes, like O'Neil, is overrated by the media. Rafa's won the CL and the Spanish championship, end of any rational debate.

Like I said on my first post. You call us bitter

Rafa working miracles again. He really is a laughing stock!!

HE CUDNT MANAGE A WARM CUP OF PISS

I know you shouldn't talk to yourself but quality timing. One win in seven at home with a squad like that, pure genius.

yes lets judge a managers career on 1 game, typical of the modern football fan.

I notice his record with Valencia hasn't been talked about much, but i guess its no big
deal beating Barcelona and Real Madrid to 2 league titles.

Hardly one game Dylan. 1/7 strike rate at Stamford bridge lol

Head to head he always seems to outwit Moyes who has a better record against Fergie, so it can't be just down to quality of squad. Most sensible Everton fans give Rafa a grudging respect. When the United, Citeh, Chelsea, Arsenal, Real madrid, or even Spurs jobs become vacant Moyes will not be considered for any of them, unless it's by the media. That says it all.

PHILthePOWER • January 16, 2013 4:47 PM GMT
I get sick of these fans of small clubs trying to tell a world renowned manager how to do his job

I get sick of other fans commenting on other clubs, worry about your own problems, you bitter, twisted voyeurs.

Benitez is a good manager, he was very effective at Valencia and won the title twice - although the team was rather dull, and scored a record low number of goals for a title side in spain, but that was his game plan at the time win 1-0 and it worked, he put a very good side together there and he had players like Aimar and Ruben Baraja who could be a joy to watch, but their style was quite classical italian at the time - 4-5-1 get a goal defend in numbers. I lived in a shared house at the time and we used to watch the spanish footy and although it could be dull 1-0s it was fascinating and effective.

The thing about Benitez is, and possibly why he doesnt get much credit outside of red fanatics, is that he comes across more often than not as a complete **** - ok all managers do at times, but he did a hell of a lot

Fergie and Mourinho are very capable of being ****, but they protect their players above anything, when push came to shove, rafa always blamed anyone including players, rather than himself. But he isnt a bad manager at all, I just think his dislikeable demeanour gets his marked down by people, same way some people slate Fergie because he can be a gob**** of epic proportions.

That said, his last season when liverpool finished 6th ? 7th under him, he has to take responsibility, you cant blame the board for Torres getting a titty lip and some of Rafas decisions that season. He **** that season up.


Anyway, some Liverpool fans might get their wish, I cant see chelsea keeping him on in the summer, and Rodgers wont last forever

Richard Wright
Steve Watson
Allesandro Pistone
Alan Stubbs
David Weird
Mikel Arteta
Marcus Bent
James Beattie
Duncan Ferguson
James McFadden
Kevin Kilbane
Gary Naysmith
Tim Cahill
Joseph Yobo
Leon Osman
Tony Hibbert
Eddy Bosnar
Guillaume Plessis
Nigel Martyn
Lee Carsley
James Vaughan

final league position - 4th

notable wins against - man city away, liverpool home, man city home, man utd home

the above is far better than any achievement rafael benitez achieved.

Although the very next season, he finished 17th with Everton's record low points total, irrc.

jesus that squad was fairly brutal when you look back on it!

exactly dza he had a squad that finished 4th, finish 17th the following year, shows you even more how amazing the achievement of finishing 4th was with that turgid pile of pensioners and div 3 class standard players he had to work with.

Good point md.

md49vd
18 Jan 13 00:03
Joined:
24 Feb 07
| Topic/replies: 1,434 | Blogger: md49vd's blog
Richard Wright
Steve Watson
Allesandro Pistone
Alan Stubbs
David Weird
Mikel Arteta
Marcus Bent
James Beattie
Duncan Ferguson
James McFadden
Kevin Kilbane
Gary Naysmith
Tim Cahill
Joseph Yobo
Leon Osman
Tony Hibbert
Eddy Bosnar
Guillaume Plessis
Nigel Martyn
Lee Carsley
James Vaughan

final league position - 4th

notable wins against - man city away, liverpool home, man city home, man utd home

the above is far better than any achievement rafael benitez achieved.

why are you answering a question that you have said doesn't make sense?

Finishing 4th is better than winning a La Liga or a Champions League

Only from an Evertonian.....