really hope Hodgson ditches the old guard now

Some of those mentioned have done well for England, but I agree.  None of them have got the legs anymore.  Can't see any of them being key players at the next world cup, but whether we need some of them to help us qualify is another matter.  Terry and Gerrard could still figure, fitness and court cases permitting!

agreed,BUT who do you bring in?

In other nations the players retire graciously, admitting their best hasn't been good enough and it is time to give the younger generation a chance, can you see any one of gerrard lampard terry parker and barry doing this?

hopefully they will,but if not then the manager has to make the decision.
its clear they are not up to it any longer,they should know that if we do.
We may have trouble replacing them but it needs to be done, even if we fail to qualify for a tournament or 2,in the long run we will benefit.

sj it's not a case of who we bring in, these players first need to be shipped out, they're not going to improve in their mid thirties if they've failed miserably in many major tournaments ovet the last 10 or 12 years.
people like cahill wilshere rodwell oxlade-chamberlain smalling jones sturridge and barkley to name a few should in the next squad and be playing

''gerrard lampard terry parker and barry should be thrown aside now, they have had many tournaments to succeed and they've failed miserably.
let's start afresh and bring in the young players to give the fans some hope''


total bulsht

you should play whoever is best at that time, whoever is playing the best, if gerrard is playing like he has then you take him #

you dont leave him behind cos hes the wrong side of 30

fckin stupid

it doesnt matter who you play or what age.
The fact is,english players lack greatly in skill,technical ability and ball retention qualities.This tournament has brutally highlighted that.
We should look at the germans for inspiration.They have long proved you dont need special,exciting players.Just a team who are comfortable on the ball with good technical ability,intelligence and fitness.
Even in your early/mid thirties,if you have these qualities then you can still be effective at international level.
No manager will succeed with england as the tools simply arent there.
The FA may as well appoint a nobody and pay him peppercorn.The result will be the same.

it's strange to me that in the premier league you have very little time on the ball and these players can find their team mates with a pass. put them in an international where they have more time on the ball (italy are no germany or spain at closing down the opposition!) and they can't seem to find a team mate or have the legs to play triangles of passing and moving.

of course other nations have more technical players but we often fail at the very basics international level as though we have some sort of default setting of zero confidence on the ball.

if a lot of that squad played like that for their clubs they wouldn't be getting games.

total bulsht

you should play whoever is best at that time, whoever is playing the best, if gerrard is playing like he has then you take him #

you dont leave him behind cos hes the wrong side of 30

fckin stupid

are you totally stupid ?
these players have played in many major tournaments and have they ever looked like are going to win it ?
they're not good enough at that level so you give someone else a chance who might be, i despair about some people on here.

If you check the rating's provided by UEFA for this tournament, then England's best players were our 4 defenders and Steven Gerrard.

Chuck out the "old" guard and become another Ireland

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2012/statistics/castroledge/ranking/index.html

are you totally stupid ?
these players have played in many major tournaments and have they ever looked like are going to win it ?
they're not good enough at that level so you give someone else a chance who might be, i despair about some people on here.


But the big question is, who would you put in in their place???  Come on. Who are the replacements who would suddenly have made us as good as Spain and Germany?       

The truth is that the quality isn't there in today's English players. That's something we need to change for the future (working on those players currently in their early to mid teens).  However, as far as 2012 goes, leaving out Terry and, in particular, Gerrard, would make no sense whatsoever.

Yes it's the way of British sport!

Stick with the old and trusted who have experience (of losing time and again) or who were good once, rather than youth, who may be brilliant.

Nice staid, boring, conservative, 'beaten paths are for beaten men' old England.

Stuck in the same old sh1t and revelling in it.

Nothing wrong with a blend of youth and experience. Pirlo is 33. Why this obsession with throwing players on the int'l slagheap post-30? Eng have achieved to their usual ceiling at this tourno, knocked out in q/f. Doesn't make the players failures.
The spine of the side is very strong - we should stick with Terry, Gerrard, Rooney, assuming all are fit and in form. I think Barry was missed at this tourno. He has done sterling work in midfield for Eng and is only 31.
Have long thought Gerrard and Barry the ideal central midfield duo, with the hope someone like Wiltshire can also have an impact in the next 2 years.

The point isn't their age but the fact their bodies are creaking and are unlikely to be any fitter at the World Cup in two years.

I'm surprised Beckham hasn't offered his services.

There are sure to be calls for a Beckham recall if he leads Team GB football team to Olympic gold

Eng have achieved to their usual ceiling at this tourno, knocked out in q/f. Doesn't make the players failures.

I see your point, really I do

My point being that with (for ease, lets call them 'kids') you just may get further.

If you're going to be playing a game relying on high pressure when not in posession (for over 2/3rds of the game), physical committment and running then arguably you'd be better with them.

Plus you'd also have the 'No Fear' mindset to play with too.

anyone putting sturridge forward as an option should watch a few more chelsea games from last season.Some  will cite he was playing out wide but trust me he is worse down the middle.

Too many Sun readers with a fixation on age.Numbers mean nothing,it's your levels of fitness that count,and how you lead your life.Too much beer and cigs. will slow you down quicker than a clean living person,as obviously injuries do too.
  All this tosh about "well he's 30 now and past it" is meaningless.A bet the Italian press and supporters were not having a go about Pirlo's ageLook how old Del Pierro was and still scoring goals.
Look how old Drogba was and still put the fear up every centre back he played against.
Age= a number,fitness is the issue.

I would like us to have persuaded Scholes to come out of retirement, especially in the absence of Wilshere.

Age doesn't matter so much, it's more the type of player we choose to structure our teams around. England prefer Parker to Carrick, they prefer to put Gerrard in the centre of midfield instead of Scholes. Milner plays wide, Downing on the bench, but no place for Joe Cole in the squad.

There's nothing wrong with a few characters like Terry, Paker etc. around the squad or in the team. But when the side is all huff and puff, they will struggle against other teams who can really play.

The next England side should be built around players who can pass and who love to find space to recieve the ball. Go from there and the rest will come easily enough imo. Age shouldn't come into it though, whether young or old.