Football
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
08 Jun 12
00:24
Joined:
Date Joined:
23 Apr 12
EURO 2012.was plunged into its first racism controversy after the black players in the Holland squad were subjected to monkey chants during an open practice session in the same city where England will also invite the public to watch them train on Friday.
Several hundred people targeted players such as Nigel de Jong and Gregory van der Wiel when 25,000 spectators attended the Dutch practice session at the Stadion Miejski, the home of Wisla Krakow.
The players, on the instructions of the captain, Mark van Bommel, responded by moving their training drills to the other side of the ground. "It is a real disgrace especially after getting back from Auschwitz [the Dutch squad had visited the concentration camp on Wednesday] that you are confronted with this," Van Bommel said. "We will take it up with Uefa and if it happens at a match we will talk to the referee and ask him to take us off the field."
The problems occurred as the players began the session by jogging a lap of the pitch only to be greeted at one end of the stadium with monkey noises and loud jeers. On the second circuit, they were even louder and it was then the players decided not to go around again. "At least now we know what we can encounter," the Holland coach, Bert van Marwijk, said with heavy cynicism. "Very atmospheric."
Uefa subsequently tried to deny that it was racially motivated, saying they had checked with the Dutch squad and had been told it was not thought to be of that nature. Instead, the official line is that a small part of the crowd was protesting about the fact that Krakow had not been made one of the host cities. Another theory that has been put forward is that Wisla's supporters did not want their stadium being used by anyone but their own club and were simply booing the Dutch players.
Van Bommel, however, responded angrily when it was put to him not everyone had heard monkey noises. "You need to open your ears," he said. "If you did hear it, and don't want to hear it, that is even worse."
Privately, the midfielder is understood to be unhappy that the authorities are not treating the issue more seriously, but the incident is still threatening to be a major embarrassment for Uefa, coming before a ball has even been kicked, and will increase the scrutiny on Poland's supporters when the tournament opens with the co-hosts playing Greece in Warsaw on Friday.
The Polish authorities have been eager to dispel the sense that the backdrop to this tournament will have racism at its centre, and the country's prime minister, Donald Tusk, went through an elaborate public relations exercise on Thursday to drive home the point. Tusk was accompanied by a television crew on a 90-mile journey to Lodz to dine with Poland's first black parliamentarian, John Godson, and his family, including relatives who had flown in from Nigeria. The idea was to show the improvements both in Poland's road network and acceptance of different races.
Godson criticised the BBC Panorama documentary Euro 2012: Stadiums of Hate that had warned racism would be rife. He argued that Poland was a "hospitable and tolerant country" while Tusk wore a badge that said "Welcome" and said he was convinced there would be no problems: "I very warmly invite all English people. You will definitely not encounter anything unpleasant here."
Panorama had focused on the racist elements in the support of Krakow's two major clubs, Wisla and Cracovia, as well as highlighting the seriousness of the problem in Ukraine. Michel Platini, the Uefa president, has subsequently said the referees have been empowered to take teams off the pitch if there are serious issues – but added that any player who walked off without permission would be booked.
The families of two of England's black players, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Theo Walcott, have already decided against travelling to the tournament because of the potential problems. England are based in Krakow, along with the Netherlands and Italy squads, and will allow the public to watch Friday's practice session at Hutnik stadium on the outskirts of the city.
Several hundred people targeted players such as Nigel de Jong and Gregory van der Wiel when 25,000 spectators attended the Dutch practice session at the Stadion Miejski, the home of Wisla Krakow.
The players, on the instructions of the captain, Mark van Bommel, responded by moving their training drills to the other side of the ground. "It is a real disgrace especially after getting back from Auschwitz [the Dutch squad had visited the concentration camp on Wednesday] that you are confronted with this," Van Bommel said. "We will take it up with Uefa and if it happens at a match we will talk to the referee and ask him to take us off the field."
The problems occurred as the players began the session by jogging a lap of the pitch only to be greeted at one end of the stadium with monkey noises and loud jeers. On the second circuit, they were even louder and it was then the players decided not to go around again. "At least now we know what we can encounter," the Holland coach, Bert van Marwijk, said with heavy cynicism. "Very atmospheric."
Uefa subsequently tried to deny that it was racially motivated, saying they had checked with the Dutch squad and had been told it was not thought to be of that nature. Instead, the official line is that a small part of the crowd was protesting about the fact that Krakow had not been made one of the host cities. Another theory that has been put forward is that Wisla's supporters did not want their stadium being used by anyone but their own club and were simply booing the Dutch players.
Van Bommel, however, responded angrily when it was put to him not everyone had heard monkey noises. "You need to open your ears," he said. "If you did hear it, and don't want to hear it, that is even worse."
Privately, the midfielder is understood to be unhappy that the authorities are not treating the issue more seriously, but the incident is still threatening to be a major embarrassment for Uefa, coming before a ball has even been kicked, and will increase the scrutiny on Poland's supporters when the tournament opens with the co-hosts playing Greece in Warsaw on Friday.
The Polish authorities have been eager to dispel the sense that the backdrop to this tournament will have racism at its centre, and the country's prime minister, Donald Tusk, went through an elaborate public relations exercise on Thursday to drive home the point. Tusk was accompanied by a television crew on a 90-mile journey to Lodz to dine with Poland's first black parliamentarian, John Godson, and his family, including relatives who had flown in from Nigeria. The idea was to show the improvements both in Poland's road network and acceptance of different races.
Godson criticised the BBC Panorama documentary Euro 2012: Stadiums of Hate that had warned racism would be rife. He argued that Poland was a "hospitable and tolerant country" while Tusk wore a badge that said "Welcome" and said he was convinced there would be no problems: "I very warmly invite all English people. You will definitely not encounter anything unpleasant here."
Panorama had focused on the racist elements in the support of Krakow's two major clubs, Wisla and Cracovia, as well as highlighting the seriousness of the problem in Ukraine. Michel Platini, the Uefa president, has subsequently said the referees have been empowered to take teams off the pitch if there are serious issues – but added that any player who walked off without permission would be booked.
The families of two of England's black players, Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain and Theo Walcott, have already decided against travelling to the tournament because of the potential problems. England are based in Krakow, along with the Netherlands and Italy squads, and will allow the public to watch Friday's practice session at Hutnik stadium on the outskirts of the city.
Show More
How on earth are the authorities denying the racism. Did anyone see the BBC Panorama show when the head of police said "They're not Nazi salutes, they're just pointing at the opposition fans". Jeez, how did these countries get awarded the competition with attitudes like that.
Next thing you know they'll be saying there's a Zoo next to the training camp and the noises came from there 
i think they should just put up with it and get on with it...
every time they give a reaction, it is giving the baiters the recognition they crave...
then, after the tournament, all the countries in europe should get together and state that none of them will play a qualifying game in poland or ukraine again...
surely that would have a better effect long term
every time they give a reaction, it is giving the baiters the recognition they crave...
then, after the tournament, all the countries in europe should get together and state that none of them will play a qualifying game in poland or ukraine again...
surely that would have a better effect long term
^
seriously, that's why these sh!tholes should never have been given the tournament.
seriously, that's why these sh!tholes should never have been given the tournament.
Sadly boycotting qualifying games in Poland and Ukraine will, I feel have little or no affect apart from cause masses of controversy. This is an issue of intolerance and ignorance that is deep rooted into the culture that exists in Poland and Ukraine; and whilst it cannot be condoned, it's a lot bigger issue than simply not playing football matches in these countries. In doing that it may raise awareness of the issue, and hopefully cause their respective FA's to take action within the stadiums, but until racism is taken seriously socially it's not going to stop these types of people at all. Clear example being the head of Police not even recognizing and accepting masses of football fans making anti-Semitic chants and Nazi salutes - it's not seen as an issue socially within these countries, not to the extent it is in the UK.
I think it's plain to see that these two Countries are far from suitable hosts, but sadly the mass-awareness of these racist issue within the hosting nations has come far too late; with this knowledge obviously not as prevalent when Eufa went about selecting the host nations.
I think it's plain to see that these two Countries are far from suitable hosts, but sadly the mass-awareness of these racist issue within the hosting nations has come far too late; with this knowledge obviously not as prevalent when Eufa went about selecting the host nations.
One of the causes is that they have so few black or non white people in their country and so they are not causing insults to anyone they would normally come into contact with. But with so many Poles and other Eastern Europeans now working in Britain they will come into contact with black and asian people on a daily basis and may start to regard them in a different light. Then if this attitude is then continued when many will return home , racism may start to fall amongst the population. Most prejudices are brought about by a fear of the unknown. I know a women from eastern europe who believed being gay was a disease that could be cured by medication ( it is forbidden in her country, if you came out as gay you would be beaten up every day), she now see's it as something you are born as and that is how you are. She still doesn't agree with it, but she accepts it.
the 2018 world cup in russia will be 'interesting' then
the ukrainian/polish racists are tame compared to the skinhead gangs in russia
the ukrainian/polish racists are tame compared to the skinhead gangs in russia
The police are worse than the gangs in these places imo, wouldnt want too get caught pissing in a street in Ukraine
I think I've heard more than a few racist chants at UK football grounds, admittedly less in the past few years but definitely not gone away.
There is without doubt a political element to what appears a very well orchestrated campaign to undermine this tournament by western media/politicians.
The race card is an easy one to play here because there is a race problem in Poland and Ukraine from what we can see, but this is definitely being made into as big an issue as possible by the media.
There is without doubt a political element to what appears a very well orchestrated campaign to undermine this tournament by western media/politicians.
The race card is an easy one to play here because there is a race problem in Poland and Ukraine from what we can see, but this is definitely being made into as big an issue as possible by the media.
^ should the media be sweeping it under the carpet like the authorities in both countries in the hope that no-one will notice?
VieirasaGooner
08 Jun 12 04:38 Joined: 24 Mar 12 | Topic/replies: 387 | Blogger: VieirasaGooner's blog
The police are worse than the gangs in these places imo, wouldnt want too get caught pissing in a street in Ukraine.
^^^^^^^^ I got caught doing exactly that, in Odessa. I was lucky to get away with a fine and not a beating. One of the cops was itching to get me out of public view and batter me his stick but his older colleague overuled him and just emptied me and my mate's pockets.
08 Jun 12 04:38 Joined: 24 Mar 12 | Topic/replies: 387 | Blogger: VieirasaGooner's blog
The police are worse than the gangs in these places imo, wouldnt want too get caught pissing in a street in Ukraine.
^^^^^^^^ I got caught doing exactly that, in Odessa. I was lucky to get away with a fine and not a beating. One of the cops was itching to get me out of public view and batter me his stick but his older colleague overuled him and just emptied me and my mate's pockets.
VieirasaGooner
08 Jun 12 04:38 Joined: 24 Mar 12 | Topic/replies: 386 | Blogger: VieirasaGooner's blog
The police are worse than the gangs in these places imo, wouldnt want too get caught pissing in a street in Ukraine
======
yeah you can piss everywhere you want but when you come to Ukraine - they'll catch you for this.
it's a pity that you can't piss in the streets :)
08 Jun 12 04:38 Joined: 24 Mar 12 | Topic/replies: 386 | Blogger: VieirasaGooner's blog
The police are worse than the gangs in these places imo, wouldnt want too get caught pissing in a street in Ukraine
======
yeah you can piss everywhere you want but when you come to Ukraine - they'll catch you for this.
it's a pity that you can't piss in the streets :)
sorry i posted a thread without seeing this i am concerned the pc brigade are desperate that racism will occur that idiot saggers i kiev is surprised did he not do his homework in the 2nd world war some ukranians fought with the germans figuring that nazism was better than stalin
Well jin kazz what i meant was a 100 euro fine anywhere else will get you battered by sicko Ukrainian polic
They initially welcomed the Germans, but the murder, deportation and slave labour soon changed their minds.
DIE LINKE
08 Jun 12 11:21 Joined: 26 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 4,291 | Blogger: DIE LINKE's blog
They initially welcomed the Germans, but the murder, deportation and slave labour soon changed their minds.
=========
yeah some rats welcomed them and then served them as polizeis but payback found many of them. these traitors where hanged as fukcing rats.
08 Jun 12 11:21 Joined: 26 Jun 03 | Topic/replies: 4,291 | Blogger: DIE LINKE's blog
They initially welcomed the Germans, but the murder, deportation and slave labour soon changed their minds.
=========
yeah some rats welcomed them and then served them as polizeis but payback found many of them. these traitors where hanged as fukcing rats.
How did it change their minds? They actively participated in policing it all. Have any countries suffered the racial abuse/cleansing more than Poland/Ukraine in the last 75 years and now they're being lectured by all and sundry about racism, brilliant.
dizzydavid1
08 Jun 12 10:51 Joined: 09 Oct 02 | Topic/replies: 875 | Blogger: dizzydavid1's blog
^^^^^^^^ I got caught doing exactly that, in Odessa. I was lucky to get away with a fine and not a beating. One of the cops was itching to get me out of public view and batter me his stick but his older colleague overuled him and just emptied me and my mate's pockets.
====
Actually that's their usual good and bad cop game.
They alway act like this. Everytime they catched me for illegal activities - they where acting like that :) And the good thing was that the good cop always convinces bad cop to release me for some fine :)
PS: Would you prefer to go to jail for 15 days for pissing in the streets or pay 100 euro? I'd prefer to pay 100euro if you ask me :)
08 Jun 12 10:51 Joined: 09 Oct 02 | Topic/replies: 875 | Blogger: dizzydavid1's blog
^^^^^^^^ I got caught doing exactly that, in Odessa. I was lucky to get away with a fine and not a beating. One of the cops was itching to get me out of public view and batter me his stick but his older colleague overuled him and just emptied me and my mate's pockets.
====
Actually that's their usual good and bad cop game.
They alway act like this. Everytime they catched me for illegal activities - they where acting like that :) And the good thing was that the good cop always convinces bad cop to release me for some fine :)
PS: Would you prefer to go to jail for 15 days for pissing in the streets or pay 100 euro? I'd prefer to pay 100euro if you ask me :)
BearGrylls
08 Jun 12 11:25 Joined: 03 Jan 12 | Topic/replies: 41 | Blogger: BearGrylls's blog
How did it change their minds? They actively participated in policing it all. Have any countries suffered the racial abuse/cleansing more than Poland/Ukraine in the last 75 years and now they're being lectured by all and sundry about racism, brilliant.
=============
Wow, at least someone remember history and don't believe everything he hear from TV.
Thanks man :)
08 Jun 12 11:25 Joined: 03 Jan 12 | Topic/replies: 41 | Blogger: BearGrylls's blog
How did it change their minds? They actively participated in policing it all. Have any countries suffered the racial abuse/cleansing more than Poland/Ukraine in the last 75 years and now they're being lectured by all and sundry about racism, brilliant.
=============
Wow, at least someone remember history and don't believe everything he hear from TV.
Thanks man :)
Lots of Ukranians fought for the Nazis. Many fought with the Red Army too. The same applies to Lithuanians, Latvians etc. Maybe we should remember that racism in the form of anti semitism was rife throughout that whole region, including Poland, and actually still is.
I wonder if all this stirring by the English media will cause problems for English fans? I imagine most Ukrainians and Poles will not being happy at being called Nazi's - they might take it out on the English supporters.
What other countries are making TV documentaries titled "stadiums of hate"?
I would expect several. and the question should be, why aren't the others?
this stuff's not all right.
this stuff's not all right.
I'm not confortable with the term 'stirring up' to be honest. It's very relevant imo and no different to the documentaries made about English hooligans before International tournaments in the past.
Regardless of history is it really acceptable for anyone to make monkey noises at a black person?
Regardless of history is it really acceptable for anyone to make monkey noises at a black person?
What stuff? All I saw was oh about 30 or 40 idiots acting like thugs. I'm pretty sure English fans have done much worse on their travels and at home.
There are many angles the media could have taken here - a few mindless thugs spoiling the reputation of Ukraine and Poland for example. But they didn't do that. Instead, it seems to me the BBC were hell bent on portraying both nations as being full of racist Nazi thugs, like it was a national characteristic.
It seems well over the top to me - all I saw was a handful of idiots.
It seems well over the top to me - all I saw was a handful of idiots.
I doubt the gay office workers and painted face brigade that follow england these days will encounter any trouble tbf.
The uk obsession with racsim is beyond belief tbf.
So eastern blockers are yrs behind in racial awareness,seems just another w@nk fest for the guardian brigade in all honesty.
So Ukraines don't like poofs and blacks? its unpleasant but that documentary would not have even been shown but for the nasty attack on thre asian fans at the end the only real material they had.
The uk obsession with racsim is beyond belief tbf.
So eastern blockers are yrs behind in racial awareness,seems just another w@nk fest for the guardian brigade in all honesty.
So Ukraines don't like poofs and blacks? its unpleasant but that documentary would not have even been shown but for the nasty attack on thre asian fans at the end the only real material they had.
Someone should celebrate with this Salute, then we might see some real fireworks
Not often you get the Nazis on a thread without spelling and grammar mentioned. 
Seriously, those countries are not used to democracy and civil rights. They are just embarrassing themselves.
Seriously, those countries are not used to democracy and civil rights. They are just embarrassing themselves.
van bommel only complaining because its usualy the captains job to start any abuse in the holland camp,they could start a fight in a telephone box,without the help of others
British media seem to have conveniently forgotten that this sort of stuff was rife over here not too long ago, and has still not been completely eradicated from the domestic game.
Its rooted in their culture, its not an easy solution. In other words they simply dont like non-Slavs, it will take a generation or 2 to get to UK standards.
I've been so disgusted by it all I've closed my account @ www.ukrainianbabesseekwellendowedwesterners.com
As someone of Polish origin I find the stereotyping all eastern europeans by the British media as white supremecists very hypocritical.
For some reason black people believe that any country that does'nt have a high immigrant population must be racist.
The biggest reason why there are very few black people in eastern europe is that they were never involved in the slave trade.
If the press could be bothered doing some reasearch they would find that there are many African footballers playing in Poland and perhaps an interview with some of them would shed some light on there experience of racism.
For the media to focus so much on a few right wing thugs gives a very distorted view of Poland.
For some reason black people believe that any country that does'nt have a high immigrant population must be racist.
The biggest reason why there are very few black people in eastern europe is that they were never involved in the slave trade.
If the press could be bothered doing some reasearch they would find that there are many African footballers playing in Poland and perhaps an interview with some of them would shed some light on there experience of racism.
For the media to focus so much on a few right wing thugs gives a very distorted view of Poland.
Well said Slaski, unfortunatley the media will try to make it seem like all of Eastern Europe are racists in a desperate bid to sell papers in a bid too make the almighty dollar
I have looked through all the comments on this forum and can see that most people aren't taken in by this hype.
It is very sad that the families of the black english players have chosen to stay at home as I am sure the would not encounter any problems in Poland.
Hopefully in the next 20 years newspapers will die out because of the internet age and people can form their own opinions rather than being spoon fed them by the press.
My mother in law reads the Daily Mail and seems to live in constant fear of anything and everything.
It is very sad that the families of the black english players have chosen to stay at home as I am sure the would not encounter any problems in Poland.
Hopefully in the next 20 years newspapers will die out because of the internet age and people can form their own opinions rather than being spoon fed them by the press.
My mother in law reads the Daily Mail and seems to live in constant fear of anything and everything.
In the supermarket yesterday I saw a fat dole scrounging c*** with an 'English Defence League' sweatshirt on with the slogan 'no surrender to Al Qaeda'. The BBC would do well to look on their on own doorstep before trying to tar eastern european countries with the racist brush for the sake of an easy headline.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539