yeah no worries, just my opinion

I'm sorry, but can we just stop and think about this for a minute?

The original suggestion was that Ferguson is under pressure from people suggesting that he should be replaced, and that's why 'he's started the mind games'. And now you're trying to tell me that he's more likely to feel the pressure having gone on a great run and gone top, rather than being seven points behind their local rivals?

Sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

last pot to p1ss in for ferguson this season seeing they are out of everything else

If you read the actual article ( I know, I know ) Vieira never uses the word desperate he said "it ( bringing Scholes back into the squad )shows a little bit of weakness" .... it seems like Ferguson has interpreted the comment differently,  to suit his own typically childish agenda - I suppose its worked for him in the past.

Interesting he passingly mentions Mancini 'having a dig' as well, as I'm not aware of what he's referring to. Mancini does not tend resort to these kind of classless tactics in my experience .... if anything he's too direct and honest for his own good most of the time.

But Roy, you're basically suggesting that everything Ferguson says, he says for a reason... therefore, he never vents frustration i.e. bites on something said to him.

Football is emotional - SAF is emotional, and the suggestion that everything he says has a calculated purpose is, quite frankly, absurd.

I think you're missing the point, Roy.

You are trying to make out that you're amazed 'people can't see' what Ferguson is doing.

How about they just have a different opinion to you? His comments today, to me as a neutral, suggested that he was annoyed by what Vieira had said. You don't agree? Fine... but your posts so far are suggesting that his comments can only possibly be calculated.

"you are a cretin"
"engage what grey matter you do have."
"you either can't read or have a learning difficulty"

lol R0y, were u on the debating team at school?

Have to agree with roy here

If you watch the interview fergie is relaxed, joking but when the time comes delivers a retort which has clearly been thought out.

For me an interesting dynamic is that city have got viera to do their dirty work where as fergie confronts them head on. I would expect phase two to involve a direct dig at mancini in the hope he bites.

Obviously a rafa style breakdown is unlikely but fergie can hope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOaZYhTd2BU

There is a psychological impact to what certain managers say and it is used as a tactic.

But for everyone to think Ferguson is some kind of genius at it when 90% of his mind games consists of "team x won't try very hard when they play their upcoming game against out rivals for the title" is pretty embarrassing.

Ferguson himself also seems to have bought into the myth but it's hardly Proust is it?

fair point about that wretched little toad tevez though...spent months playing golf in argentina
while his team-mates got on with the job in hand...mancini stated he would never play for the club again
if mancini had any class he should of kept his word..its worth nothing.

Its rich of fergie to think that teams only try against utd when the reverse is true. Weaker sides write off visits to OT. Some managers have even fielded weakened teams keeping players fresh for more winnable games

mocked - by freddiek

Impossible.

fergie  decision to recall schole  from retirement  was a master stroke  ,he did notwant to lose the guy as he  has been best mid man for 20 years .mancini appears to live in a bubble  ?  is he real or  alien   ,bringing back his  unwanted player the worst decision in  many years ,bubble will burst long  before he  notches up 25  years at city  ,  mind game champion undefeated remains with SAF .

Manchester United 1 (Hernandez 49)

Newcastle United 1 (Ba 63pen)

agree mindgames is bullsheight, although got to agree with the majority here, Everyday the obviously pro United red tops dig some old ex United player out who says "City will bottle it ", "United been here before" etc etc but as soon as a player or ex player from City says the slightest thing there is a press conference called and red snout has to get his "im the boss" comments out in his media, i found it all so amusing seeing an old man who has been there and done it so many times bite like fook

I have no doubt that Fergie tries to get under the skin of the opposition -- what I do doubt is the effectiveness of it in regards to the title race.

As I posted before, these "mind games" apparently work on Wenger, yet some years his team has won the double or gone unbeaten for a season. The difference? Better players. The rest is, quite literally, all talk.

The pressure stems from the prize at stake, not as a result of playground tit-for-tat. The best players are those who can handle that pressure and play to their potential.

.................For sportsmen or women who want to be champions, the mind can be as important, if not more important, than any other part of the body. Nothing had changed physically about me in that period. There was no rational reason why a mistake should cause a collapse in form. It was the mind that did it. I was distracted.

Now think about the implication of that on a team. A collection of strong-minded individuals who have learned how to dismiss mistakes, disappointments and problems in their personal life make up a strong team. If the majority of the team have that then, as a unit, you are almost impossible to beat.

The two best teams I faced in my career were Juventus (1996-1999) and Arsenal (1997-2000). It isn’t so much the individual flair and skill that stands out, it’s the mental toughness. Think of the characters: Angelo Peruzzi, Ciro Ferrara, Paolo Montero, Antonio Conte, Zinedine Zidane, Didier Deschamps, Alessandro Del Piero; David Seaman, Nigel Winterburn, Martin Keown, Tony Adams, Emmanuel Petit, Patrick Vieira, Dennis Bergkamp.

You knew you would never break them mentally. If you have a core of characters like that, you win titles. You can carry one or two weaker individuals in a champion team, as I was carried in 2000, but not four or five.

And now we are at the stage of the season when we’re coming down to the sprint finish for the title and invariably the media will try to stoke up the issue of mind games. It is a phrase that annoys me. Mind games? This isn’t a game we’re talking about. People make it sound like hopscotch or an amusing sideline to the title race to entertain people. This isn’t a sideshow, this can be the main event. The mind can be the decisive factor in determining who wins the title. So stop using the phrase ‘mind games’, stop trivialising it.

We can all cite examples of teams losing their collective nerve, but let’s dwell on one because Rafa Benitez was saying this week that he didn’t think mind games were important in the title race.

I remember watching the press conference he was referring to, that infamous list of ‘facts’ he repeated, citing apparent favouritism shown towards Sir Alex Ferguson and United. We were in a head-to-head race with Liverpool for the title and, as I watched it, my first thought was: ‘That’s good for us. And that’s not good for you’. It wasn’t that we thought: ‘Rafa’s cracking up’. That would be crass. But he had created a hullabaloo and turned a minor issue into a major talking point. He had shown a **** in his armour. And if Benitez had allowed himself to become distracted, we knew some of his team would follow because the manager is the representative of the team, never more so than in press conferences.

Arsene Wenger once said the most important message he delivers to his team is not in his team-talks. It is in the two-minute sound bite he gives to television after the game. You’re not telling me Sir Alex doesn’t plan every headline he creates. He knows at this stage of the season, the pre- and post-match press conference are vital in terms of preparing the mind of his team and, yes, affecting the mind of the opponents.

After Benitez’s press conference, every headline, every media question, even the fans’ chanting would be dominated by the debate about whether he was feeling the pressure. And some of the players would start to believe he was and take their lead from that. Whether it was true or not doesn’t matter. I can guarantee you that if a footballer hears or reads something 100 times, a large percentage of them will start to believe it.


A coach once told me there are four factors that determine a players’ performance: his tactical awareness, his physical condition, his technical ability and his mental strength. Which is the only one that is variable at this stage of the season? Physically, the work has been done long ago to prepare you for this moment; technically, your ability is set in stone by now; and tactics, you can tweak a bit but you won’t make dramatic changes.

The one factor that is volatile is the mind of a player. And when does the mind start to play tricks on you? When you’re under pressure. And for footballers, that means in April and May.

It is true that injuries, refereeing decisions and sheer luck can play their part. But you can’t control those. What you can control, if you know how, is the mind. Every pundit, journalist, player or coach who is asked about Manchester United’s title chances will say something like: ‘They have the experience. They have the “know-how”. They’ve been there before’.


What they mean is they are relentless in hunting down titles and they have a manager and players with a collective mental strength to avoid distractions and overcome obstacles. Because there are signs that City are not as comfortable as they were a few weeks ago. Roberto Mancini missed the press conference after the draw at Stoke and he was critical of Mario Balotelli before and after the draw with Sunderland, which saw the striker arguing with his own team-mates. Are these the tell-tale signs that the pressure is beginning to affect them?

Mancini spoken about this issue a few months ago. He used an Italian phrase: ‘Avere il braccino,’ the arm becomes short, which is his way of saying the mind starts to play tricks on the body. ‘This is my worry for Manchester City,’ he said. Mancini knows all this. He has won three Serie A titles. And he also knows the title race isn’t over yet. But if his players are to win, they now have to demonstrate some extraordinary mental toughness.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2123328/Titles-won-head-stage-season-Gary-Neville.html#ixzz1r5aDMwX3

So the most important thing is to have mentally strong players (who are also good at the game) who, by nature, can cope with the expectation of winning. Such players render "mind games" irrelevant and win titles anyway.

Not sure that follows. You'd say Gary Nev is mentally strong yet he details a 9 month spiral in his mental game.

Long to short the point im making, and have always made is if it had no impact, or minimal impact the mourinhos and the fergie's just would not bother.

Yet to hear a counter argument to that.

It may not be enough to swing a title, but it may give your side a better chance. Edges. The end.

Howard didnt take the bait.