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*Tour de France - Stage 11* Wednesday 15th July

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Replies: 106
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 15:53
Martin in pursuit of Pauwels...
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 15:57
Froome went for the KOM points and took the jersey off Porte
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 16:01
I wonder how Dan Martin would of gone if he didn't miss the break by 4-5 minutes?
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 16:03
Martin getting the wrong information here.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 16:06
Pity, Martin had the legs obviously, but Majka the best climber in that group, and no one descended like a maniac.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 16:08
Nibali dropped again.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 16:08
Yeah clearly the best climber, I'm surprised they bothered working with him.  Didn't they see last years tour?
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 16:10
Bristol County Caravans and 626 tipped Majka on the Comp thread, so hope they landed some good bets there.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 16:12
Martin can win a WC road race one day I reckon.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 16:13
Gallopin! Love it!
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 16:20
Unless there's a big name rider in the breakaway, riders will always work together in a long-range break. I mean, not working with a rider is essentially holding up the white flag -- what team wants such a rider?
By:
casemoney
When: 15 Jul 15 16:24
What a difference a year make Nibali looks a shadow of the Rider he was last year Shocked
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 16:32
Sure whatever you say.  So all the other riders who didn't go in the breakaway were holding up the white flag on a stage suited for the breakaway.  You don't work with a rider like Majka, the break fails, go back to the bunch and wait for the next break to form.  Teams want their riders on TV but they also want smart riders who ride to win.  With only six other riders in the break is was basically a gift for Majka.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 16:46
At last years TdF, Majka won two stages and had a 2nd and a 3rd and he won the Polka Dot jersey.  He was the best climber at the race behind Nibali last year.  He was said to be in good form and part of a strong team to help Contador in the mountains this year.  I don't know if he qualifies as a big name to you but you wouldn't want to see him in your 6 man breakaway on a mountain stage that included the Tourmalet if you really wanted to win the stage.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 16:47
Look, I don't want to downplay your opinion, I see what you're saying, but that is a call for the DS at the point when the break is forming, Majka was equal favourite with Martin and plenty wouldn't have seen much between them, admittedly I wasn't sure at that point who it would be that far out, that's why I suggested laying riders instead. Majka hasn't had the best of seasons and whilst he was brilliant last year here, it wasn't as clear cut as having Sagan on a flat finish scenario, so those teams would've expected their riders to have had decent chances against him -- I mean nobody would say Majka is a dominant force, don't go into a break with him because he'll win nine times out of ten.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 16:53
Martin bridged a 4:30 minute gap to the break mostly on his own.  The break formed without Martin.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 16:54
You don't know why Majka or any doms are in a break though. Would be silly not to work in a break if he sits up and waits for Contador.

Unlikely today, but you wouldn't bet on it every stage.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 17:05
Precisely my point nugget -- what DS would permit their rider to put so much effort into bridging solo into a gap with Majka in it, if there are plenty of opportunites remaining to win stages later in the race, whilst being equipped with the data on Majka's previous results in this race. Are you suggesting Wegelius or Hunter were unaware of Majka's exploits? Of course they knew Majka was good, but it wasn't a certainty, and Martin was obviously feeling very good to have done what he did before closing on Majka toward the line. They backed their rider because Majka is not a destroyer, we've seen glimpses of it, and he has added to it, but I think riders of a certain level will think they are suited against him.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 17:08
You don't work with a rider like Majka, but you hurt yourself riding solo on a tough and hot stage to get into a break with him -- what nonsense!
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 17:11
You do occasionally see those tactics CJ but absolutely 0% chance Contador was attacking today.  Why do you think they sent Majka in the break? To sit up and wait for a rejuvenated Contador who attacks the bunch and drops Froome and Sky.  No chance.  If Contador was feeling good Majka would of been riding with him. 

Majka has a higher strike rate than Sagan at the TdF last two years.  With the composition of that break prior to Martin bridging he wins that stage 10 out of 10 times.

You're missing the point sp. I'm talking about before the break even gets 20-30 secs.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 17:12
Martin probably waited so long to chase the break because he didn't think Majka was going to get such an easy gift.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 17:26
I'm not missing the point at all -- that's the part of the race when the DS men are watching the coverage in the cars and saying yay or nay about their own breakaway-attempting riders being involved in a group by working out the break's composition.

You've essentially argued that upon realising that Majka was in the breakaway, the DS men of the other teams should have called their riders out of the break -- letting Majka go alone or preventing him going on alone. My point is not only did they not do that, Wegelius permitted Martin to hurt himself to get into a break with Majka, which illustrates the point -- how narrow he thought Majka's chances were against his own man Martin.

If you disagree with a team's tactics that's one thing, but you cannot argue that a team is not aware of Majka's previous results.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 17:45
I think it's pretty clear what I'm arguing here. 

They shouldn't have needed their DS to tell them who Majka is anyway it's a decision they make in the heat of the moment when a break is forming.  I dont know what you're on about with Wegelius, you don't restrain a rider like Dan Martin when he is on good form you give him the green light.  I'm talking about the outmatched riders who helped form the break with Majka.


wd Majka backers.  I thought he was a chance today from a breakaway, I just thought it would be from a larger more competitive break with 15-25 riders.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 18:04
I know what you're arguing because you stated it earlier and it's still evident as of: July 15, 2015 4:08 PM "Yeah clearly the best climber, I'm surprised they bothered working with him.  Didn't they see last years tour?"

You're inferring that nobody knew what Majka did last year, moreover you seem to be inferring that you saw more than the DS men of the teams involved in the breakaway. The latter might actually be the case since you have proven to be an astute cycling analyst, however you seem to think that tactics and ignorance are one and the same thing, and clearly they're not. Everyone in that break and each DS would have seen Majka amongst themselves and in the break, and known he did amazing things last year, but not working with him would have been tantamount to putting up the white flag of surrender and no team wants such riders, and no team is going to restrain their riders against Majka at this point of his career.

In any case, I can see I am not going to convince you, so no worries but I'm withdrawing from this discussion with you.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 18:28
"Yeah clearly the best climber, I'm surprised they bothered working with him.  Didn't they see last years tour?"

Don't you know a rhetorical question when you see one?  I'm sure they know his results, that's why I was surprised.


Breakaways often fail because the riders are unhappy with the composition of the group it's nothing new. If they had of just sat on his wheel for a bit he would of got the message and gone back to the peleton, sometimes the riders have to take a bit of the initiative and show a bit of tactical awareness. As for the DS's they were probably just happy to have their team colours on TV and maybe some of the riders were just looking for some face time.  I dont know what you're going on about with the white flag of surrender but you are sounding a bit French.
By:
nugget
When: 15 Jul 15 18:41

Jul 15, 2015 -- 9:09AM, Autocue wrote:


You called me a f***ing troll swinging pick. Well you're an arrogant f***ing loudmouth from a Chinese mining colony.


Nothing personal but I think this was the best post of the day. Made me laugh... Chinese mining colony... vg

By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 19:21
It's personal all right, that's why I've just now blocked you -- thanx!
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