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marychain1
13 Jul 15 14:02
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Date Joined: 05 Apr 05
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Stage 11  »  Pau  ›  Cauterets   (188k)

This is a serious amount of climbing today, with the famous Tourmalet climb providing the Souvenir Jacques Goddet. It is conceivable however  that there won't be time gaps between the major competitors as the final climb is the Cat 3 Cauterets.

In many ways this is similar to Stage 18 of last year's tour, starting as it does in Pau and including a climb of the legendary Tourmalet. However, last year the stage won by Nibali was only 145km and this year it is 188km. Last year the route went through Nay and Ossun on the way to the Cote du Loucrup, whereas this year they go through Lourdes. Last year the Tourmalet was the first of the two big climbs on the route for the day with the Hautacam as a summit finish, this time it is the second as we take the Cat 1 Col d'Aspin on the way there before descending to Sainte-Marie-de Campan, where the Tourmalet starts.

The riders will head South and then primarily East out of Pau. There are 6 categorised climbs in all on this 188km route, but the first half of the route is fairly flat, only containing the Cote du Loucrup (Cat 3 - 2km @ 7%) the Cote de Bagneres-de-Bigorre (Cat 4 - 1.6km @ 6.1%) and the Cote de Mauvezin (Cat 3 - 2km @ 6%). After the Mauvezin the riders will turn directly South until they reach the town of Arreau at 105km into the stage. Here they will turn and travel primarily North and West and this is where the nature of the stage changes and the real climbing starts with the Cat 1 Col d'Aspin.

The Col d'Aspin is a famous old Pyrenean climb. This will be the Col d'Aspin's 72nd appearance in the Tour, and 9th since 2000, which is down more to its location between the Tourmalet and the Peyresourde than the difficulty of the climb. That is not to underestimate this climb. They take it from the harder eastern side, and at 12km @ 6.5% and with 779m of vertical gain it will soften the legs of any rider, especially as the hardest stretch is near the top. But compared to some of its neighbours this is not a hard climb, especially with what comes next. The descent is not too bad from the Col d'Aspin, but there will be little respite for tired riders as they will soon get to Sainte-Marie-de-Campan and the start of the Tourmalet climb.

The Tourmalet is 17.1km @7.3%. It is a very difficult climb. The Tourmalet wil be making its 84th appearance in the Tour, and its 10th since 2000. It is the most commonly used mountain pass. The Tourmalet is also the highest paved mountain pass in the French Pyrenees. The first few km start fairly easily, before the gradients get far harder soon after the town of Gripp. The last 11km of this climb are all at 8% or above, but the steepest slopes are at 12%. There is vertical gain of 1,268m on this climb and it tops out at 2115m. The descent can sometimes prove as decisive as the climb. We will see the riders take the same very technical descent on that Valverde attacked on last year and split the bunch to pieces. This descent is horrendous and terrifying in bad weather (I speak from personal experience). This time any attack on the descent could stick because after the descent the riders only face the Cat 3 Cauterets, rather than the HC Hautacam.

After the descent of the Tourmalet the riders have 10km to go. The stage actually finishes after the Cote de Cauterets (6.4km @ 5%), and both the Cauterets and the following 3.5km can be classified as irregular climbs, with flats followed by steeper ramps. The last time the Tour finished in Cauterets was in 1995 when stage 15 was won by Richard Virenque although the stage will always be remembered as the day Fabio Casartelli died after a crash on the descent of the Col de Portet d'Aspet.

If we have wet conditions this could be won by an attacking descender on the Tourmalet, such as Nibali, Valverde or Bardet. If it stays together until the Cauterets then it could suit someone who thrives on a climb with irregular and constantly changing gradients like Alberto Contador.

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Replies: 106
By:
geoff m
When: 14 Jul 15 16:43
Fantastic input as per usual Marychain.

"This descent is horrendous and terrifying in bad weather (I speak from personal experience). This time any attack on the descent could stick because after the descent the riders only face the Cat 3 Cauterets, rather than the HC Hautacam.

Its an absolutely stunning decent in great weather tho  Marychain (my greatest day ever on a bike) overtaking cars and buses @ 70kph
The ride up to Cauterets is stunning Pyrenean scenic beauty @ its best a power climb if they have anything left in the tank after the Tourmalet.

Great oppourtunity for Nibali if he can stay with them over the Tourmalet and could easily nick a minute on the descent
By:
cedarmaster
When: 14 Jul 15 20:05
rui costa
dan martin
By:
marychain1
When: 15 Jul 15 00:58
When I did the Tourmalet it was ok on the lower slopes but the rain came in about halfway up. I stopped and put on my gilet and I was ok at the top, the climbing keeps you warm. We even stopped for photos at the summit. But literally as soon as we started to descend the rain and wind chill meant I was so cold I started to shake. It was so cold I could not properly grip the handlebars, and there were crashes all around me. I could not beleive how long the descent went on for, it was almost 40 minutes of non-stop descent and I had whole body shakes the whole way down. There was a feed station at the bottom of the Tourmalet, I think it was in the town of Luz-St-Saveur and it was like a refugee zone, people off the bikes and huddled together under shelter for warmth. People were coming out of houses with coffee, soup and silver red cross blankets for riders. I think about 4,000 riders abandoned in total and I reckon most of them must have been at that point. Strangers were cuddling each other for heat, people were crying everywhere and the guy I did the ride with urinated on himself twice on purpose between the Tourmalet and the start of the Hautacam just for the warmth. It was the most extreme conditions I have ever cycled in. It got better in the valleys, the sun even came out, but it was pretty scary for a while. That descent was just pure hellish. That's me at the top, on the right.
By:
Autocue
When: 15 Jul 15 09:09
You called me a f***ing troll swinging pick. Well you're an arrogant f***ing loudmouth from a Chinese mining colony.
By:
federalski81
When: 15 Jul 15 10:25
These are my favourite stages, one where there should hopefully be a break and trying to get some meaty prices then hoping they make the split... and the break holds...

Machedo 
Moribito
Kangert 
Geschke
Fugslang

Spoilsports have some good prices and ew top 5.
By:
seanpantani
When: 15 Jul 15 10:46
Rolland / J-Rod / Fugslang / Mollema.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 11:01

Jul 15, 2015 -- 9:09AM, Autocue wrote:


You called me a f***ing troll swinging pick. Well you're an arrogant f***ing loudmouth from a Chinese mining colony.


It's that level of debate written in the wrong thread that makes me appreciate what you are saying! Masterful!

By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 11:02
This has break written all over it. Backed the usual suspects.

Riblon
Tommy V
Rui Costa
By:
Happybacker
When: 15 Jul 15 12:08
Really thought it would be a day for a break today and was waiting to see who is in it.

So far just a break of 4 after 41km and only 40 secs ahead, a strong quartet Westra, Kwiatowski, Jungels, and Boasson Hagen but little chance of them staying away. They needed at least double that amount of riders to really make it go pover the climbs. Hopefully there will be a counter attack on the Aspin or lower slopes of tourmalet, and I will try to get involved then!
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 12:17
The nature of this type of stage dictates the difficulty with which the GC teams can ride tempo and close to the course to attacks. The peloton essentially gets disrupted from the very first climb, and then multiple breaks form causing an almost chaotic scenario with breaks at different points along the road. I therefore agree with the consensus that a break gets established here, and would in addition add that at a certain point in the stage these breaks merge or reform into a considerable break which might might have the firepower to stay away to the finish.

CJ suggested that Rui Costa was either still experiencing difficulty or he might be saving himself for today, I have not found an answer one way or the other, although I think he might be saving himself for the Gap stage.

Whilst I too enjoy solving the likely break at ante-post and harvesting the shortening price for a good trade, I have found it really difficult for this stage, my contact has not been in touch which makes it that much more difficult, and given the perceived chaotic nature of this stage, I nevertheless think there may be plenty of opportunities IR to jag a good price or lay some unlikely rider in the break.

Mathias Frank is suited for this type of stage, however I cannot count on his motivation as I haven't got confirmation from him nor the team. I think probably Valverde might trade higher than his present price, and have started with that play.

Good luck to all
SP

P.S. MC -- really lovely to get to know you like this mate -- love the jersey -- you look like a good bloke if you don't mind me saying -- thanks for sharing your experiences and adventures in this sport we all love so much, in the areas the riders are covering at this point of the Tour.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 12:21
I've found the answer to the Rui Costa question.. He's been dropped on the first cat.3 Laugh

Mind you over 100 riders have.
By:
Happybacker
When: 15 Jul 15 12:22
The early break has been caught already! Good news we should definitely some attacks now on the aspin and hopefully a bigger group get allowed to go.
Looks like the peleton has split in to two groups, and Rui Costa is in second half so he must still be suffering.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 12:30
My last day here, since betfair will close here(Portugal) because of new regulation

Im with a few long shots

GL ALL
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 12:38
Sorry to hear that EB, the forum will be lighter for your absence, however you could try changing your ISP -- that might work? All the best,
SP
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 12:40
It seems it wont work, and we wont have any bets here until regulation is ready, that can take several months. Already was emailed by betfair.

I will be here to give some insights whenever i can.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 12:40
Soon Betfair is going to be UK only Cry
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 12:47
Can you not use an asian broker to access the Betfair markets?

Not sure if it's appropriate for cycling betting though.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 12:58
Voeckler, Pauwels, Majka, Morabito & Buchmann have nearly 2 mins.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 13:11
3min:30 looking good for the breakaway. One of my boys there (Morabito) but with Majka there, it would be almost impossible to win.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 13:20
wtf is D.Martin doing, trying to bridge almost 4minutes? thats crazy
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 13:23
Rui Costa now 11mins back in the last group. Possible abandon coming?

Wonder why Martin didn't wait for the climb to go? Would have made things a lot easier.
By:
Happybacker
When: 15 Jul 15 13:26
Have backed Morabito 18/1 and also Dan Martin 18/1 both ew.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 13:26
Because on the climb the peloton will be 7-8 min behind... he should have gone when Simon and Demare went, not now! Wasting energy for nothing
By:
Happybacker
When: 15 Jul 15 13:29
Martin has Grivko with him so i think a fair chance they will make the bridge across.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 13:30
They are burning themselves and they took less than one minute, even if they get there they will be dead
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 13:34
Not sure whether to trust this GPS too much but J-Rod is off the back of the peloton.

Rui Costa group have supposedly made 5 mins and are back in the peloton so sceptical.
By:
Happybacker
When: 15 Jul 15 13:39
Yes not looking good for Martin as Grivko has had to sit up just 2km in to the climb! Only 2 mins 40s behind now but is going to cost him a lot of energy just getting across.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 13:47
Martin's going to bridge before the summit by the look of it.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 13:53
Martin is in the cars behind the break and can see Demare. Top riding to get over.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 14:07
So much for resting after bridging. Martin sprints away for the KOM points.
By:
Happybacker
When: 15 Jul 15 14:09
Superb by Martin, is obviously targeting the KOM as really went for it there.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 14:34
Great ride, he has to be really strong to comeback that easy, but will probably pay it later.
By:
the swede
When: 15 Jul 15 14:40
who do you think. martin or majka?
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 14:53
Not sure this is a Backer's market just yet, looks more like a Layer's market still, with the gap coming down fast and within range of being picked off by attacks out of the peloton.
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 14:56
Not sure why Astana are chasing if it's not for Nibali to try something on the descent. Can't see Fuglsang going on the downhill?
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 14:59
Thank you Martin backers, that was a great last day!
By:
CJ70
When: 15 Jul 15 15:00
Peloton down to 15? riders.
By:
ExpertBoy
When: 15 Jul 15 15:01
Astana's tactics are a joke. They lost the GIRO because they are stupid and are just doing the same.
By:
SwingingPick
When: 15 Jul 15 15:01
Fuglsang out the back so it must be Nibali?
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