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If anyone wants the roadbook try this link - but its an 80gb download
https://www.wetransfer.com/downloads/daf23b6f094506571ed3f017d8108f6120150428171401/c6a4dc | ||||||||||
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FAVOURITES
Contador 10/11 Richie Porte 5/2 Rigoberto Uran 8/1 Fabio Aru 11/1 Domenico Pozzovivo 18/1 Ilnur Zakarin 50/1 Leopold Konig 66/1 Roman Kreuziger 80/1 Michele Scarponi 80/1 Jurgen Van Den Broeck 100/1 Ryder Hesjedal 100/1 | ||||||||||
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Can see Orica winning the TTT, and Bling adding another leaders jersey to the collection by either winning or a having prominent finish on Stage 2 and then keeping it until at least Stage 5 and possibly Stage 8.
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No Europcar
No Colombian team This looks like Contadors to lose but @ 4/6 - 10/11 he is unbackable especially after all the crashes not just this year but in recent GC races. I am the first to admit that i have never been Richie Porte's biggest fan , mainly because his GC record is appalling, but he has trimmed down over the winter and is in excellent form. Add to this he has an extremely strong team (probably the strongest Sky have ever put out) and he will never have a better chance of success than this race. Does this leave me with trying to find an outsider to back e/w hoping to snatch 3rd place, there is not much appeal in that. This makes the outright market quite unappealing. Any suggestions anyone please ? | ||||||||||
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I feel exactly the same way. I can't see Porte or Uran beating him but he's not to be backed in a 3-week stage race at odds on (although at least in Italy there should be less chance of him getting popped). It would take something astonishing for someone outside those three to win, someone would have to find a level of form they haven't yet displayed AND maintain it for three weeks. Perhaps if anyone is going to do that then Zakarin could be that man, but even at 40/1 it doesn't appeal much.
Having looked over the stages one by one over this bank holiday weekend, it should be amazing week. The amount of hill-top towns, lakeside paradises and ski resorts we visit is astonshing. It will be an amazing race, but with the prices as they are it is very difficult to find a bet for outright purposes - at least in GC. I'm awaiting the other jersey markets and rider specials with interest. | ||||||||||
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good range of markets now available on PP
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Are you guys for real? BERTIE will absolutely kill Porte in the mountains. BERTIE is Frankel in here. Porte always has St least one shocking day in grand tours
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*** Richie Porte Was the big SKY hope for this in 2014, however injury and illness conspired against him and he was forced to pull out of both Paris-Nice and the Giro, and failed to finish Tirreno-Adriatico, Volta a Catalunya, Liege-Bastogne-Liege, and the Tour de Romandie.
Had what could only be described as a monumental off-season, stripping down whilst building strength through a combination of training and nutrition. And the results speak for themselves. First-up this season, won the Nationals in the ITT, and finished in 22nd place in the road race, before winning the queen stage up Willunga Hill in the Tour Down Under, however he lost the GC by 2 secs when Rohan Dennis worked to the line in surprising fashion. One week later he rode the Cadel Evans Great Ocean Road Race for a 20th place finish. Next up, and on the European continent, finished 4th in the Algarve, won Paris-Nice, won Catalunya, and last start won Trentino in a perfect tune-up for this. Strong credentials as he looks fit, is in career-best form, has a strong team assembled in support, and is proven over three weeks of racing. 11/4 W/O. Will be in it for a very long way. Makes very strong appeal. The one to beat. ** Alberto Contador Veteran campaigner and class rider who is not only hoping to win this race, but will be attempting to also win the Tour later, in the hope of performing the elusive Giro-Tour double, and then perhaps even the very rare Triple Crown. Contador has already achieved the little easier Giro and Velta double in 2008. The last rider to do the Giro and Tour double was Marco Pantani in 1998, which came five years after Miguel Indurain did it back-to-back, so it can go off regularly. This season, first up in Andalucia he got skewered by Froome up to Alto de Allanadas by 29 secs after beating him by 19 secs in the previous stage, to ultimately go down to Froome by only 2 secs on GC. Then in Tirreno-Adriatico, he struggled both with the cold and with the fast pace as his team and SKY challenged each other on the Terminillo queen stage, whereupon he finished in 5th place, some 55 secs behind, and would also finish in 5th place on GC. Next finished in 4th place last start in Catalunya with uninspiring riding up until stage 5 where he crashed hard in the final 3kms, however he suffered only superficial injuries and managed to finish the stage and complete the race. Comes to the start line as the short-priced favourite, perhaps more by default than a highly impressive season, so he has some work to do and will need to prove he is up to this early on, however he has a crack outfit at his disposal and loads of experience. 1/1 W/O as a banker proposition. Racing against inferior opposition. Must be respected. Hold safe. 1/4* Rigoberto Uran Finished 2nd over this trip last time out, which included a surprising but excellent win in the ITT stage 12. 2nd on GC in 2013, also. Is having a far better season coming into this than last year, with a 5th place finish last start in Romandie, a 5th in Catalunya before that, and a 3rd in Tirreno-Adriatico. He also rode well in Strade Bianche for a 7th place finish, which might be important given the tricky gravel road conditions on the climb up to Sestriere for the queen stage. Also had a win when first-up in the Colombian Nationals ITT, followed by a 4th place finish in the road race. He doesn't have the strongest team, however he is a consistent and experienced campaigner and the parcours suits. If he can dictate terms early, he may generate the necessary luck required to finally go one place better and take this out. 8/1 W/O. One of the main contenders. Watch closely. Domenico Pozzovivo Wily Italian veteran with a sold record here, albeit off the podium: 5th last year, 10th in 2013, and 8th in 2012. This season: 6th Tour Down Under, 8th Tirreno-Adriatico, 3rd Catalunya, 7th Trentino, and finished with the 10-man selection when 8th in LBL, last start. Will likely improve with more racing, and may look like the winner at some point, however his winning instincts are somewhat questionable and a podium result is more likely. 25/1. Hard to have. Others have stronger claims. Discount. Fabio Aru Promising 24yo rider from Italy who got himself onto the podium last year over this trip, which was set up by an excellent win in stage 15 up to Montecampione, proving his climbing credentials. His form this season is highly suspect coming into this after suffering a stomach virus which resulted in having to take a course antibiotics, and which then had a domino effect in preventing him from taking the start line in Giro del Trentino and Romandie. Only raced twice before that for a 6th place finish last start in Catalunya, and a 39th in Paris-Nice before that. He showed last year that he can work his way into the race in a conservative fashion, however the parcours is not as conducive to riders requiring building form scenario as last year. Moreover, and to a lesser extent, he may now be susceptible to more illness. 11/1. Has claims. Take on trust. Ilnur Zakarin 25yo Russian making his Grand Tour debut. Closer scrutiny comes after he sounded his potential when riding in elite company last start in Romandie, where he won on GC. Struck out in impressive fashion when going in pursuit of Pinot on the penultimate and queen stage up to Champex-Lac, finishing in 2nd place. Then still had it all before him on the final stage, however he rode heroically in the ITT, changing his bike mid-race to finish in 3rd place. He is not knew to riding in Italy, however he is an unknown proposition over three weeks of racing and will likely be using this race as good experience. 28/1. Hard to have at this stage. Wait to see. Good luck to all, SP | ||||||||||
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Firstly, thanks MC for the thread-starter -- excellent work!
Was hoping to get my post up much earlier in order to stimulate more discussion, however other matters made demands on my time, and I see that CM, and MC in agreement, have both identified the key problem with the GC market in any case, and I really don't have much more to add except that it could still be a good trading market on here. While there are 5-6 key stages, there are tough climbing stages interspersed throughout the three weeks, which might very-well generate the surprises necessary to spook the market enough and often enough for some value hunting to be had. Am now making deeper and expansive study of the side markets. Cheers, SP | ||||||||||
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Best Market seems to be the Mountains, be nice to know your thoughts SP
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Perhaps as expected the Racing Post selection this morning (from Nick Pulford) is 2pts win Contador @ Evs on the outright market
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Points jerseys and mountain jerseys are tricky markets to call. I'm leaving the mountains comp alone but you'd probably want someone from a team without a GC rider and possibly someone who could lose time straight from the TTT. I've had a bet in the points comp though.
Points There are three different types of stages, all of which get different amount of points allocated. Flat stages (top 20 riders score points) = Stages 2, 6, 7, 10, 13, 17 and 21 Stage winner = 50 points 2nd 40 pts 3rd 34 pts then 28, 25, 22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Also in intermediate sprints top 10 get points (20 for winner etc) Medium Mountain stages (top 15 riders score points) = Stages 1, 3, 4, 5, 11, 12 and 18 Stage winner = 22 points 2nd = 20 pts 3rd = 18 pts then 16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Also in intermediate sprints top 8 riders get points (10 for winner etc) Mountain stages (top 10 riders score points) = Stages 8, 9, 14, 15, 16, 19 and 20 Stage winner = 15 points 2nd = 12 pts 3rd = 9 pts then 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Also in intermediate sprints top 6 riders get points (8 for winner etc) The way I see it Bling would be the absolutely nailed on winner of this category if he completed the race because he can get to a load of finishes that the other sprinters like Greipel cannot. I think we can rule out the climbers this year because they won't pick up too many points in the stages where the big points are on offer. People like Modolo and Mezgec are likely to sty the course and could fight for both the flat stages and the more hilly ones. Someone else that falls into that category is JJ Lobato and I've chanced him at 12/1 win only with PP. | ||||||||||
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The Points Classification competition has been won by outright sprinters for the last two editions, however in those editions the race didn't have a Peter Sagan-type of rider. And this year it does.
** Michael 'Bling' Matthews Has worked on his style over the past few years after appearing on the scene as a contending rider in his first year with OGE in 2013 when he was 22yo, and as with young riders who have a malleable physique it takes some time to develop their best or most natural characteristics. It is now perfectly clear, especially after his rides this season in the Brabant Arrow and AGR, and even earlier in Paris-Nice where he won Green, that he has settled on being a Peter Sagan-type of rider -- that is to say he is capable of sprinting with the outright sprinters, but prefers a ramp or two into the finish (or a mid-cat climb placed in a strategic point on the stage) which might shed some of the outright sprinters or sting their legs enough to retard their kicks for the line a bit. Reports are that Andre 'Gorilla' Greipel is motivated to win Green Jersey, however following MC's earlier analysis, I believe Bling is the worthy pick on account of his ability to claim both those TV (Traguardo Volante) or Intermediate Sprints, in addition to the points on offer by being involved in the bunch sprints; and whilst he has stated that his focus is strictly on stage wins, it appears that he was playing down his chances for the Green Jersey on account of the team not having then as yet secured the opening they would have planned in winning the TTT. The mood in the team would have now changed dramatically after their convincing team win, and it could very-well be that by hunting stage wins Matthews builds a good lead in this competition by claiming TVs, whilst still being involved in the sprints on the flat stages enough to pick up those points also. It was interesting to hear him show his enthusiasm for the Green Jersey competition being his main target in what will be his TdF debut later, however he has a perfect opportunity to attempt to win Green here, and with the good energy in the team, it is logical to think this will now become a target for him going into Milan. Confirmation for this will come just after the feed zone or rifornimento in tomorrow's 177km stage 2, where there are two TVs back-to-back, and since OGE will be on the front with the Pink Jersey, it will likely be Bling being launched for the lines with points. Makes appeal for his expansive characteristics advantage over the outright sprinters. Top showing expected. Worthy of close consideration. 5/1 W/O. The KOM competition is certainly one market which is difficult to get right at ante-post, and it's not one which I've had good success with in the past, and I cannot get involved with the amount of questions floating around with no answers. Good luck to all, SP | ||||||||||
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The thing that is putting me off Bling is that he is likely not to complete the race, and with green jersey being his main focus he won't try and win the red points jersey here because he'll be prepping for the Tour.
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Why wouldn't he complete the race though, MC?
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Well there's a general theory that it is very hard to maintain peak form over two Grand Tours and there isn't enough time to come down and come back up again in between either. Not saying I necessarily agree with it, and obviously Bertie is trying for the double this year, but some teams definitely do go by that theory. If you remember last year Bling won the TTT, a stage and wore the leader's jersey in the Giro before dropping out after stage 10. He wasn't even aiming at the Tour last year either so it might make sense to do the same this year if his goal is the green jersey in the Tour.
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Sure I read that was the plan somewhere anyway
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Not part of any plan I've come across MC, in fact I think you'll recall that Bling only withdrew from the Giro last year in order to recover from his crash in stage 9. Actually, he was attempting the TdF last year, it was supposed to be his debut, hence why the team thought he might benefit from a longer recovery since OGE is such a team that do definitely go by that theory you've mentioned. Nevertheless, from what I understand he is definitely riding this race into Milan, unless he experiences a crash or fatigue of such a significant note that there's no point in flogging him for little to no good outcome ahead of being included in the squad for the TdF. I really think he is worth a bet, and you've set a good foundation of analysis for the advantage his expansive characteristics will provide. As I said, we'll see him winning the TVs tomorrow and that'll be confirmation, I believe.
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I don't think Matthews would abandon if, near the end of the 2nd week, he stood a good chance of winning the Points jersey.
I thought faster sprinters than Matthews would also be after Intermediate sprint points (if a reasonable amount of points are left). | ||||||||||
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That's probably correct. Reading back over a couple of interviews he gave during and after the spring classics it seems the plan is stage wins and then see how the points competition lies. He seems to be a few worries about getting over some of the big mountains though and seems to be saying he'll get as far as he can and consider the points jersey on its merits as the race develops.
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The Australian sports media is often so parochial, that we get really intimate accounts from within teams with interviews and the like, and I've noticed that not all of it makes it to the wider sporting community, so perhaps what I'm seeing is a little more accurate, but he is pretty-much committed to the Giro into Milan, and we'll see today what Green looks like in the TVs.
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Hats off MC with all the threads and all the great work you have put in here, much appreciated.
So far my only bets on the outright are Landa at 7/2 to finish top 10, he is obviously here as support for Aru firstly but is riding very well himself. A rider I have liked for a hile, he is a very strong climber, and he looked strong at Trentino although obviously 2nd best to Porte, and if Aru feels any effects of his stomach bug later in the race he could become the team leader, but whatever he should be with Aru most of the way on all the stages and that should be enough to comfortably place him inside the top 10. And as mentioned above by MC and SP i think Matthews is strong bet for the pints jersey so 5/1 taken there. I do think Porte will run Contador very close at the least, though 2/1 was not big enough for me to play, but i am now tempted as he has drifted to 3/1 after yesterday?? though i hoped he mmay have even drifted further! Sky were very disappointing yesterday no hiding from that and it was a bad result for them, but it isn't a disaster and like MC says it could help make this week a lot more exciting as sky will now likely be very attacking. Looking forward to a really good 3 weeks, looks like every stage should have something to offer, will be great viewing. Gl all. | ||||||||||
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Stage 2 - not much movement of note from a GC point of view. The things of note I guess were that Tinkoff Saxo were very prominent at the front whenever they thought there was a potential moment of danger, and kept Bertie out of trouble. They drilled the pace on the front through the two laps of Genoa until 3km to go and with all the crashes happening in behind it seems like a smart move. I guess the only concern might be that they did a fair amount of work and if they keep that up for the whole race they could suffer by week three. The other thing to note was the Peter Serry has abandoned for Etixx after that crash near the end and that is a massive loss for Rigoberto Uran, his team was already weak enough and that means he loses valuable support on the climbs.
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Richie Porte's motorhome, nice for him but good for team morale later in the race?
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Richie Porte's motorhome, nice for him but good for team morale later in the race?
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also surprised by the amount of work Tinkoff is putting into it, had expected we won't see much from them for 2 weeks
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At the conclusion of a surprising stage 4, and prior to stage 5 with it's testing summit finish:
-- AST team look big around Aru, but with that pressing nature they are also perhaps heaping significant pressure on his 24yo shoulders. I don't think we've as yet witnessed how he might react to such pressure when it comes, and it will at some point. -- TCS are flexing their power and strength, and showing an almost clinical commitment to Contador's GC aspirations. I echo bb66 with my surprise of TCS doing so much work so early, but also that AST are willing to do the same. So, in a way, both teams are on a similar footing with their energy deficits going forward.
Am I missing anyone? Cheers, SP | ||||||||||
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In relation to the motorhome for Porte -- good morale within teams is definitely important in GTs, and if his teammates feel like he is segregated from them off the road, but expecting total commitment from them right beside him on the road than that surely can't be good for morale -- definitely worth keeping a look for signs in relation to how they appear as comrades.
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Also worth noting that Meersman abandoned today, another big loss for Uran further and above the time lost today
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Porte looks very good, very impressed with his ride into Abetone with Bertie and Aru. If he rides as conservatively as possible this weekend, he appears like he might harden into a very strong force by the weekend after and third week. May be prudent to value hunt for bids to increase stakes on Porte with Bertie as banker to balance those backs.
Does Porte even need his team? I don't think he does! End of stage 5:
Barring crashes, illness, or critical point mechanical failures, some variation of this podium appears compelling for the podium in Milan, at this early point of the race. | ||||||||||
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what does +.02 and +.20 mean, .02 and .2 of what, a minute of what? or .02 and .20 seconds?
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SwingingPick
"Does Porte even need his team? I don't think he does!" Yeah sure, Sky should withdraw all his teammates from the Giro immediately and save on hotel and maintenance cost. It's in the bag. | ||||||||||
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At the conclusion of stage 8, the GC contenders finish together: Aru failed. Contador gained a 2 sec Intermediate bonus, but also exposed himself as foxing in this race in regard to his "dislocated" shoulder behind the presentation stage, prior to being awarded the Pink Jersey. Porte...strong...conservative...patient...
Uran coming good? Back in with a chance of the podium after that ride. | ||||||||||
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What do you remember, if anything, from the recent Romandie ride, nugget?
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Whose ride in particular? What I remember from Romandie, after backing Zakarin when he finished 2nd behind Pinot at Champax-lac(only watched the last 5-10km), I backed him to win the overall and the final TT. Despite having to change bikes during the TT he only finished 13secs behind Tony Martin and won the overall. I also backed Kung when he won, that was nice. Albasini was good and Alaphilippe was too. It was rainy (so Froome had an excuse).
Why? Uran is a tough competitor and will be looking to make the long tt count but regarding a podium finish if you were looking at someone outside the big 3 I'd go with Landa, he seems to be climbing strongly. He'll need to put time into Uran on the MTF's in the final week and he will also need one of the big 3 to falter however. For that reason I'll probably look to back him for a stage win instead. | ||||||||||
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You remember a lot!
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At the conclusion of stage 9, the GC contenders finish together, sort of. Aru, undoubtedly left feeling forlorn after yesterday's failure, throws it down with a strong attack which caused the GC contenders chase selection, and he then organized the cooperation between them, in order to distance Uran, who is perceived to have an advantage in the ITT over Aru. It worked, and into the line Aru kicked to gain back a second over Contador. It was good, confident riding, but again AST showed how expansive they are, with Landa beside Aru providing assistance initially, and Tiralongo getting stage glory with a gutsy ride to bridge to long-range solo leader Slagter, although it appears AST are using a lot of matches, and that might be considered a factor in the third week.
It almost appears like AST are riding in a similar exuberance to that of their confident but inexperienced captain, Aru. Conversely, Contador is riding like the foxing old-hand campaigner with an equally clinical TCS, whilst Porte is playing the patient tortoise, and his team may be grouping. It's all quite finely poised, so to see Contaodr up on the boards as odds-on, may ultimately be correct, but at this point where the race is not even at the halfway point, it appears greedy and laughable.
Rest day, next. | ||||||||||
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Stage 10 came after the Rest Day, and at the conclusion of it there are some changes in the GC, on account of Porte suffering a puncture with 5 kms to go. With a nice tailwind the peloton were travelling swiftly at about 60 kms/hr, and even thought Porte had his team around him, and even fellow countryman Bling offered assistance, he lost significant time to the GC contenders.
I was quite confident that .22 secs behind was not at all a problem for Porte going into the ITT, I even thought he could afford to have it at up to .30 secs, however now it's going to be much harder for him to make it back. Is Porte as good as Quintana? No. It's not over though, not at all, but he will need to do something very special, something which would define his career as a top class rider if he succeeds. | ||||||||||
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Wow has gone from bad to worse for Richie Porte who has now also been hit with a 2 min time penalty putting him 3m 9sec down in 12 th place on GC!!
He was said to have taken a wheel from Simon Clarke of OGE and this contravenes uci rules! So both riders were hit with the time penalty. Surely they should all know this? and why couldn't one of his own team mates have given him a wheel?? Seems ludicrous that he couldnt get a wheel or bike from another sky rider! Today has shown there is obviously a close link between Sky/Porte and the Aussies at OGE as not only did they give him a wheel but Matthews did his best to help pace him back. The team say they will now fight harder, and havent given up on the Gc, but there is no way he is getting 3 mins back on Contador/ Aru/ Landa. Gutted for Porte and for the race as it was boiling up in to a great 3 way fight and now after today we are left with just the 2 realistic contenders, such a shame. |