Pakistan v England 2nd Test

5 ducks

TWO is the third highest batter score

40-8

Back to Pakistan England...

This is such a good Test match right now

Very difficult to work out how many Pakistan will need

Very difficult to work out how many Pakistan will need

Isn't it just.

I could believe they already have enough, but I wouldn't be amazed if we chased 282. (shrugs)

There we go. Rizwan should have stayed away from Carse and not taken two

Damn!

Just got caught on the wrong side of that wicket, grrrr

Oh no, two drops in two minutes

Crucial session. Pitch seems ok today so Pakistan need to bat for over an hour imho. Double jeopardy for England is if they do run through Pakistan they will have to bat at the end of a hot day.

Market on the move again. They think it is all over!

How on earth did he give that not out?

I love this game

England still not out of this!

I love this game

England still not out of this!

Yet

However this period plays out, one thing is certain...

If England don't lose a wicket in the first four overs - the bottom will drop out of the market

Some pace to test Sajid?

Wasn't it Salman that they didn't review (when he nicked) in the first innings?

If so, that's four lives

Wasn't it Salman that they didn't review (when he nicked) in the first innings?

If so, that's four lives

sageform • October 16, 2024 8:42 AM BST
Why does England find it so hard to take the last 2 wickets in test matches? It has been going on for years against all teams on all surfaces. I know that balls get soft etc. but this has been a feature of the team foe ever. I would love to see data on the percentage of runs given away by England for each wicket in Test matches compared to other sides.

Seems like the batters are in and the ball is soft.

I did expect a little more from the pitch in the last session. Still time for that today.

The Smith drop could well have changed the course of the match

Ordinarily don’t they usually run through the tail with a quick like Wood?

Margins and hinges of battle

Pakistan deserve their luck gif fighting bravely bug this could equally have gone the other way

This is how cricket should be

This is the biggest partnership of the innings which suggest it is easier to bat when the ball is soft and the opposition are tired.

Poor shot there but the damage had been done. I think there are a lot of tired people out there.

This is the biggest partnership of the innings which suggest it is easier to bat when the ball is soft and the opposition are tired.

Poor shot there but the damage had been done. I think there are a lot of tired people out there.

Looks like people are covering their England red. I just cannot see an England win now.

England will struggle to get 197 on this pitch, take out Ben Ducketts 112 in the 1st innings and the rest got 110. it will take England 75 overs on this pitch minimum to get the runs, can't see either happening on a surface that will be 9 days old tomorrow. inf fact i would say its darn near impossible.

Two really poor shots. Ok Duckett plays that way but he could have waited even a couple of overs to get his eye in on a difficult track. The new ball takes wickets and the daft ball yielded 65 for Pakistans 9th wicket. Really poof from Crawley but pretty good and clever bowling from their two spinners

Is this pitch really deteriorating? Sure, it's turning more, but Root and Pope have shown patience can keep the scoreboard ticking over at 3.5 an over in the last 7-8 overs. Feels to me like it's still all to play for. If these two can get to 100+ the jitters will start to creep in among PAK squad IMO.

It is certainly not a Bunsen but the ball is hard and fields attacking. Any new batsman will struggle at first but we still saw the Pakistan 9th wicket put on 65.

The pitch may deteriorate further certainly in the afternoon sessions. As you say the question is will Root and Pope still be there?

You would not want to be backing England at these prices.

It’s a wait and see. I think Pakistan win it after lunch but you never underestimate Pakistan’s ability to lose a match from a winning position.

I am on a Pakistan win and have not laid England off. The draw is covered. Only one higher chasing total in Pakistan.

Astonished to see the drift in the Pakistan price overnight (went to bed at 1.28 and woke to 1.34!)

Made a coffee, and wasn't at desk in time to see Pope disappear

Everything says England are toast here, but I hope to be wrong.

We do have Root and Brook, after all...

Looks like I'll be re-subscribing with TNT for India NZ shortly...

Brainless cricket , two days to go and half the team out trying to score 6 every ball

Couldn't disagree more, hlc.

There is risk attached to attacking and there is risk attached to defending.

Only one method advances the chances of victory significantly, and only one method has potential to disrupt the opposition.

You could make a convincing case that this game was taken away from England (in absolute terms) by the period when Salman and Sajid pressed down the throttle.

There were undoubtedly a few naff shots here from England (Crawley and Pope, in particular) but this is cricket.

But there's a middle ground surely? Bazball doesn't *need* to be so black and white. By all means step on the gas when you sense weakness or momentum shifts, but with SIX sessions to bat, why couldn't Root, Pope and co. have gone along at 3 an over for a session or two, just to see how PAK react. If we'd nudged and nurdled our way to 150-3 or even 4 down, all of a sudden PAK have to think about stopping runs as well as taking wickets. We just made it so easy for them IMO. Sky were talking about Noman and Khan as if they were in prime Warne or Nathan Lyon mode FFS!

Well APT, while I hear what you have to say this is not test cricket.You are probably to young but test cricket used to last for 5 days as batsmen could play and defend.Since the one day game and 20/20 etc there is no discipline in English cricket at the moment.And while I do understand what you are trying to say in this instance England had 2 full days and an hour to try and get 270 runs, they didn't need to get them in 50 overs.There was potential to disrupt the bowling and that was by getting  2 or 3 runs an over , over a long period. Bazball is not always the answer as shown this morning.

Itfc , completely agree , we just posted at the same time !!

Leach and Bashir certainly aren't Warne and Lyon, let alone Sajid and Noman, yet Pakistan were 150 odd for 8. (after which point their aggression paid off)

The idea England sacrificed nudging their way to 150-4 is a real stretch. If it were that simple, nobody would be watching.

Lastly, they hardly went 'Bazball'. Bazball is a myth, for one but it implies going at six an over - ala Bairstow and co, when it was first employed to immense success.

England went at barely above four an over, and hit zero sixes - in the match - until Carse had a whirl when the match had gone.

To suggest we were trying to hit every delivery for six, and no batter hit one in two innings, is quite the thing.

Ironically, Carse was England's second top scorer.

I never said anything about them needing to go at six an over. By all means be proactive with the bad balls.

But you can't deny at least 5-6 of the wickets (if not more) were criminally reckless. Charging down the pitch, swinging and missing. It wasn't needed. I'd argue only 2-3 wickets came from really good deliveries. PAK are one of the most mentally weak sides in world cricket, as you well know. Had we showed some gumption and tried not to throw away our wickets, their lines and lengths would've quickly unravelled.

It felt to me like the England players preferred the idea of an extra day's rest than digging into the trenches and biting down on their gumshields.

Bringing up someone's age - especially when you have no clue - is a strong addition to any conversation.

Why not...the entire England side, selectors and management team are too young.

Your choice was to put your money on the draw, in a match involving these English pups versus Pakistan.

There's a chance your age belies your wisdom.

Nice riposte,

Remind me not to pee in your corn flakes apt!

Although I am old school too!

I remember the rest day on Sunday really used to p me off as I could not get enough cricket….

free on the BBC …… Peter West, Ritchie etc… but had to go to school on a Monday grrrrr

Look at these posts from Day 1


Aptdemon 16 Oct 24 06:18 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
Smith at it again - he'll do something wrongly sometime, surely Crazy

Carse been more impressive in these Tests than I'd expected, too.
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Whisperingdeath
Whisperingdeath 15 Oct 24 13:08 Joined: 25 Dec 11 | Topic/replies: 53,007 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
I really fancy England go bat well on this first up

Day 2 near around tea or after

Whisperingdeath
Whisperingdeath 16 Oct 24 11:48 Joined: 25 Dec 11 | Topic/replies: 53,008 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
I agree apt although the ball may go soft. I think there will be more spin and uneven bounce. Engerlund were looking like a facsimile of the last Test 15 minutes ago. Since the fall of Pope Pakistan are looking like a cricket team.
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Aptdemon
Aptdemon 16 Oct 24 11:17 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
(Hopefully guaranteed a two hundred partnership with these last few comments) Devil

Day 2 near around tea or after

Whisperingdeath
Whisperingdeath 16 Oct 24 11:48 Joined: 25 Dec 11 | Topic/replies: 53,008 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
I agree apt although the ball may go soft. I think there will be more spin and uneven bounce. Engerlund were looking like a facsimile of the last Test 15 minutes ago. Since the fall of Pope Pakistan are looking like a cricket team.
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Aptdemon
Aptdemon 16 Oct 24 11:17 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
(Hopefully guaranteed a two hundred partnership with these last few comments) Devil

This is where and when  it all went bandy for England



Whisperingdeath
Whisperingdeath 16 Oct 24 12:10 Joined: 25 Dec 11 | Topic/replies: 53,010 | Blogger: Whisperingdeath's blog
Feels like the match is on the precipice here.

A wicket will open this up
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Aptdemon
Aptdemon 16 Oct 24 12:10 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
2000 Test career runs for Duckett at >87 strike rate Happy

And the game is almost over by stumps on day 2…… almost. Great fight by both teams.


Aptdemon 16 Oct 24 13:10 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
211-2 and then fourteen runs later Pakistan have flipped 5.5 into 1.6x. Nuts.

Just after start of play yesterday


Aptdemon 17 Oct 24 06:43 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
Pakistan were too short at 1.40 but market feels about right just now, given Pakistan's recent history.

Hard to conjure too many plausible paths to England victory just now, mind you.

180 in the fourth feels massive, let alone 250+.



There was still drama with Pakistan adding 65 for the ninth wicket

I really liked this post apt because it made me think


Aptdemon 18 Oct 24 09:41 Joined: 04 Feb 21 | Topic/replies: 1,850 | Blogger: Aptdemon's blog
Bringing up someone's age - especially when you have no clue - is a strong addition to any conversation.

Why not...the entire England side, selectors and management team are too young.

Your choice was to put your money on the draw, in a match involving these English pups versus Pakistan.

There's a chance your age belies your wisdom.


I also liked it because it was withering.

I do like different opinions particularly in regard to a Test Match.

It is interesting how your wager clouds your view.

I like to post my bets, not just for a how clever am I proposition but so people can see if I am making a huge mistake because my judgement is clouded.

I love cricket betting because there are times when the market gets it completely wrong. That is where you can make good money if you can pick it. That is my first 4 figure win in maybe a year.

This was a tremendous Test Match. England could have conceivably won but the game was almost lost when they los5 the toss. IMHO anyway.

211-2

The drop by Smith.

But it always SHOULD have been a Pakistan win. The odds varied greatly enough for everybody to make good money. As I always state I am not a trader by nature but a smarty pants type who thinks he is always right. I tend to make my bets early and stick with them

I did not lay England back and this morning I slept through it as I was quite relaxed about the outcome.

I started with an England lay at about evens in case the pitch just died but very soon on the second day you could see enough spin after tea just before Duckett got out. Another thing, it was HOT. Root and Duckett imho got out to poor shots but they also had a tired look about them.

With regard to Bazball

I am a purist and snob. I wanted it to fail. It is not imho Test Cricket.

Having said that I am a huge convert, not so much in the biffing side of things because we have heard that all before….. that is the way I play…..well you moron you should not be playing Test Cricket!

I think Bazzball has evolved. It is not a biff and bash but a state of mind.

Listening to Stokes today I understand they had no chance in reality. They tried to put Pakistan under the dish mentally. It did not work today but it would have been glorious if it did.

My only concern is the execution is poor at times. There is a bravado about going on the B of the Bang. Get your eye in FFS!

I also think as well as Duckett the fact that he hit bowled by imho a half volley is criminal. How can a professional cricketer with 4 Test centuries not hit a half volley. I reckon I could now even off a fast bowler, especially off a fast bowler. I digress.

IMHO the game was already lost on nearly even at 211-2 but them both getting out and Smiths drop finalised the result.

Great Test Match. Looking forward to the next one!

Congratulati,o,,ns WD however it's a shame your "friend"APT can't hack a different idea to his .You did ,in the older days have a discussion without being rude , but obviously he knows best , so please don't have a different view. If I fancy having a few quid on a draw at 1000/1 it's not going to change my life or the enjoyment of the game and my views are never clouded by money , which I don't really need.But if you can't understand how Test Cricket should be played because you don't know how it used to be played that's your problem, and probably why we will get stuffed again in Australia next year.Itfc and I were talking about the technical side of Test Cricket and were not having a go at you or anyone else, so just don't be rude and ignorant in your replies.Money isn't everything .

Lovely - your age volley is returned and it is this that is rude and ignorant.

Sure, sure.

The ignorance, if there is any, is purely and simply in the assertion that one's years correlate to one's understanding.

It's barely worth mentioning but posts are time-stamped. (the draw was eons below 1000/1 at the end of day two)

No not having a go hunt

I like a differing opinion to compare mine.

As stated too I am a purist and snob. I am absolutely abhorred by the fact a modern day professional cannot play an off drive. There is no easier shot shirley. Just plant your foot, lean forward and Sir Isaac Newton brings the bat down.

I was laughing at apt’s  put down, which, was funny and with your handle you should appreciate that or am I getting you confused with Bird, Bremner and Fortune? Probably am.

I don’t think apt is rude. It might just have come out that way and certainly looks rude. I would give him the benefit.

Now I would question you on how Test Cricket should be played.

Have you ever played with a modern bat? My first was a Peter May. I do believe they should all be made to play with a Peter May in the nets.

Anyway, in other news...

This was a phenomenal Test, after the strange beast of the first.

Can't wait for Thursday, just hope they manage to prepare a pitch unlike the first.

The game has changed. Covered wickets started a long time ago!

Hawkeye has changed the game.

A lot has changed.

Cricket is not pure but it is still the same game we love

Also, for the avoidance of doubt, not sure many would consider me either young, or old.

Born in the 70s, and raised on the same terribly annoying rest day Sundays to which WD refers.

Also Hunt.

I do not want people to lose. I might have ventured my opinion on the draw to give you or anyone something to reflect on.

I backed the draw at 780

I did want to raise the spectre of a terrorise attack or similar. I did not as if kind of felt dirty at the time but we should discuss it. Does not even have to be terrorise related but causal in getting the match slowed / stopped. There was at one point a chance the pitch would “ die “ and go low and slow. I would take a Hail Mary, I fact I love one!

God I hated rest days!

For your information APT , I had 1000/1 in the first test have a look at the time stamps Anyway I would have you done as a young whippersnapper !!

One day I want to bag a thousand to one

I remember being on Hurricane Watch for West Indies Tests. One night I sat on a webcam for 5 hours before play waiting and praying for the rain. Incidentally Bet365 had the draw at 8-1 overnight. It rained!

Wd , quite a few years ago, probably more than 15 ,there was a coup, where that situation actually happened. It was raining overnight somewhere in Asia that no one had visualised and the draw was backed down from all rates and a few people made a fortune.
Can't remember the exact details but some of the oldies on here might remember.

Can’t remember that one but did make bundles on the Great Randa Herath on the final day of a particular series.

Yes sometimes the market gets it horribly wrong or like you say the rain comes from nowhere. I quite often have a nicker or two on those types of play but more for fun than making money.

We are gamblers not bankers. A bank spends a hundred to make a pound. We spend a pound to make a hundred. That is why they are rich and we are not!

cracking match in india, this 4th wicket partnership so important  making this result difficult to call and worse for me difficult to trade on, 7/2 india still near 100 behind with 7 wkts left , nzealand 5/4 and draw 7/4, 1 wkt will blow   all 3 result

india actually now 22 behind still 7 wickets in hand plus 5 and a bit sessions left ,

Feels as though India and NZ prices ought to be the other way around but throw in the rain now and I'm too edgy to pick the move to take...

Lay NZ is the play

think nz without the draw for me at the moment  , just like you cant make the move on match odds all morning

Maybe some moisture under the covers now and new ball only 9 overs away. Could possibly be a big chance for NZ to make inroads into India’s 2nd innings ?

Draw has gone pretty low here, considering it is apparently sunny nearby - and, like Guernsey says, could enhance movement if they get on

Bailed on NZ lay at 4.6

Shame I wasn't a touch more greedy but they weren't showing the ground images so

Draw back at >1.6 if the rain abates, surely

Tried and failed to find a live webcam somewhere near the Chinnaswamy

fancy playing runs   india over 525 at arond 4/6, and nz win at 5.5,    worse scenario rain and nz collapse , best india score just over the 525 and nz stroll home

Completely butchered that rain delay, trading the draw.

Somehow, despite laying for lumps at both 1.25 and 1.26 (the absolute low)...wound up losing five units across the delay.

Skills

Head now more mush than when I couldn't find a move

These two set, and six more batters...

Versus NZ batting last...

Still not sure how NZ are shorter than India

Lashings of recency bias ignored...Sarfaraz is a future top 3 ranked Test batter.

His eyes are as good as anyone playing cricket.

Somehow, despite laying for lumps at both 1.25 and 1.26 (the absolute low)...wound up losing five units across the delay.

Skills

Not helping my sanity seeing the draw up at 1.9x

Never mind 16.0

just come in, what happened

should have done my over 525 runs and nzealand to win , ok india was a loser byt 5.5 nzealand , now 1.08

I am a Cricket purest and snob

But I love Rishsbh Pant

KL Rahul could scarcely believe what he had just seen. He stood at the non-striker's end and stared at Rishabh Pant at the other end. Glenn Phillips' mouth made an O. Daryl Mitchell had his hand on his mouth. Tim Southee broke into a smile.

But Pant - he was just doing Pant things.

It was late in the second session of the fourth day. The second new ball was just 6.2 overs old with Southee getting it to nibble around. He had just removed a set Sarfaraz Khan, and India's lead had ticked past 60. There was an air of nervousness around M Chinnaswamy Stadium. So what did Pant do? He went down on his left knee to a length ball on off and slog-swept it over deep square-leg for a 107-metre six.

slump with the bat was also quite something. Shortly after tea on the second day of the second Test – day seven, if you will – they had scored 1,034 runs in the series for the loss of just nine wickets, ticking along at 5.4 runs an over. But after the deluge of records came something akin to Squid Game. The tourists lost 18 for 224 in just 59.3 overs as they largely tried to sweep their way out of trouble on a surface that, if not a full-blown minefield, had certainly become no man’s land by the end.

Telling

new zealand win by 8 wkts , draw touched 4.4 here 15 mins before start this morning

Apt start a Third Test thread please

This is a toss of the coin play. Half inclined to take a jump on England with anything above  evens and hope they win the toss.

Ok dumb call

bangladesh v s africa day 4 tomorrow, and india v nzealand 5.00 am with pak v enk 6.00 am.   like the look of 10 the draw india match to start trading with

Speculative back of NZ at 5.7 batting first

Foolish back of England @ 2.8

5.6

2.08

GTFI

Really stoopid betting but paid off this time

England down to 1.8 already

NZ  92 -2 , draw 18

Runs on the board gif both of my picks. Disastrous morning session and batting application by England. These two are showing what application can do over bish, bash, bosh.

Two late wickets before tea have nog helped in India buf again they have runs on the board

Wrong thread, WD

Wots my name, Michael Vaughan?

Feel sorry for Smiff. Would have been a most magnificent hundred if he got there.

I hope yohng Rehan takes his time

Oops!

Some poor batting by England today. Pretty sure the pitch is still quite solid underneath. 4 of the first 5 wickets were given away and the last two as well.

Bazzball can do better.

Still they do have runs on the board. It is up to the Pakistan batters to soften the ball and manoeuvre into a winning position.

Interesting to see how this develops.