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Warner should be ashamed of himself - that stuff always stays on the pitch.
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That's my point rhino, when soldiers are feeling down, they carry on fighting, they don't p ussy out and say "I've had enough of this, I'm off home" - what's he got to be depressed about exactly? playing the sport he loves in front of packed crowds and being paid a handsome fee, it's nothing but pure mental weakness. I don't expect anything less from Dstyle, he's never been able to control he's temper when someone disagrees with him and I have seen when hes been busy fanboying Rafa
Soldiers are probably in the same position as cricketers were up to a decade or two ago. you just have to carry on. That has led to all sorts of problems later on. Not long ago about half the males sleeping rough in London were ex-forces for example.
Is Jonathon Trott likely to be sleeping rough in London when he gets back to the UK salmon buttspray?
Poor bloke. Poor bloke.
Poor bloke. Poor bloke.
Obviously not young man.
Hardly the point is it and you should be more respectful to your elders imo.
Hardly the point is it and you should be more respectful to your elders imo.
Sick of people making lame excuses for him - he couldn't take the heat so he got out of the kitchen, try doing real hard work and then talk about stress, like 15 hour NHS shifts on minimum wage 6 days a week, juggling 3 or 4 different jobs to feed your family, 9 months tours of Afghanistan, bomb disposal experts, - not playing a game in the sun standing about waiting to catch a ball, give me strength.
If he felt like this for a while then he was selfish to go there in the first place and put in poor performances. The Aussies are laughing, when do they cry off
If he felt like this for a while then he was selfish to go there in the first place and put in poor performances. The Aussies are laughing, when do they cry off
AyersRock.. You clearly know nothing about the subject of clinical depression, and yet again you come on here spouting absolute garbage.
To say that Trott is suffering from "nothing but pure mental weakness" shows that you yourself are suffering from "pure mental numbness"
Obviously, depression is a form of mental weakness, as any illness is a form of weakness by some part of the body or other.
Depression is a killer.
Show some compassion and respect, and if you don't know what you're talking about, then maybe it's best not to say anything.
To say that Trott is suffering from "nothing but pure mental weakness" shows that you yourself are suffering from "pure mental numbness"
Obviously, depression is a form of mental weakness, as any illness is a form of weakness by some part of the body or other.
Depression is a killer.
Show some compassion and respect, and if you don't know what you're talking about, then maybe it's best not to say anything.
tbf Ayers Rock doesn't sound the brightest so easily ignored.
I could have sworn I saw Trott doing the sprinkler in 2010/11 after his team won the Ashes and he made plenty of runs.
He has to take the world as he finds it like the rest of us. He fails in a series of matches as a direct result of the Australians figuring him out, and doesn't look like he has any answer. Certainly there is no sign of him reprising the sprinkler. He then drops out citing depression.
If he is depressed, good luck to him getting better. But we are entitled to judge him as a cricketer. He got found out and had no answer, and that is how he is destined to be remembered as an international cricketer, and quite rightly so.
He has to take the world as he finds it like the rest of us. He fails in a series of matches as a direct result of the Australians figuring him out, and doesn't look like he has any answer. Certainly there is no sign of him reprising the sprinkler. He then drops out citing depression.
If he is depressed, good luck to him getting better. But we are entitled to judge him as a cricketer. He got found out and had no answer, and that is how he is destined to be remembered as an international cricketer, and quite rightly so.
Best news in years now for Peterson and prior to go and we might have a team who cares
1.
Soldiers? What was the rate of increase in spousal murder and domestic violence from returning soldiers from Afghanistan? They fought on and look what happened when they finally popped.
2.
Have we heard that it is clinical depression? Thrush is a stress related illness, it could simply be that. We did see the heat in his jocks on hot spot after all.
3.
Pretty poor and weak is a pretty common description of a cricketer out of form or who played a scared innings. If Warner gets anything for that then I would see that as worse for cricket than anything he said.
Trott was playing International cricket, and as such is seen as 100% up for the task. Any less, and nobody can be blamed for anything.
If he went into the game with a dodgy heart, which gave way after a Johnson bouncer whizzed past his face, would Johnson be up on criminal charges?
Ridiculous.
Soldiers? What was the rate of increase in spousal murder and domestic violence from returning soldiers from Afghanistan? They fought on and look what happened when they finally popped.
2.
Have we heard that it is clinical depression? Thrush is a stress related illness, it could simply be that. We did see the heat in his jocks on hot spot after all.
3.
Pretty poor and weak is a pretty common description of a cricketer out of form or who played a scared innings. If Warner gets anything for that then I would see that as worse for cricket than anything he said.
Trott was playing International cricket, and as such is seen as 100% up for the task. Any less, and nobody can be blamed for anything.
If he went into the game with a dodgy heart, which gave way after a Johnson bouncer whizzed past his face, would Johnson be up on criminal charges?
Ridiculous.
maggot, i'll spell it out, I don't believe he had depression at all, it's an excuse by some here, I can't show compassion a respect for someone who had depression if I don't think they actually have it simply because it is unproven, to me it sounds like an easy excuse, he's not the first or last English Cricketer to do this, you don't have to be an expert on the sport to know when someone is playing badly, it's a cop out, the situation got to him, his performances suffered, and now it's been decided England are better off without him, that's the mental weakness, letting things get to you when you shouldn't. I haven;t even heard it's depression just stress related which backs up my point entirely.
England captain Alastair Cook yesterday accused Warner of being "disrespectful" for calling Trott "weak" and saying the visiting batsmen had "scared eyes" in a press conference after day three at the Gabba.
Maybe Warner will get subbed off the field and claim he has Tourettes, and Cook will be fined for being "disrespectful"... This has just gone too far.
Maybe Warner will get subbed off the field and claim he has Tourettes, and Cook will be fined for being "disrespectful"... This has just gone too far.
Let's put it simply just for the aussies.. even a thick aussie **** could see that there was something very unusual about how Trott was looking, a professional cricketer doesn't have 'scared eyes' when facing a cricket ball delivered Mitchell fcuking Johnson.
Are you saying he didn't have scared eyes, or are you saying that in an unwinnable position, somebody clearly terrified of what was happening to himself, decided to go out and play cricket?
All I can find, is that it was a "stress related illness". Now people are making assumptions that it is depression as far as I can see..
All I can find, is that it was a "stress related illness". Now people are making assumptions that it is depression as far as I can see..
I can't see how it is disrespectful to tell the truth about an opponent's performance.
Maybe if Warner said Trott is weak, that is disrespectful. He said the shot was weak and it was. He said he saw scared eyes and I am sure he did.
You don't blame the messenger for delivering the truth. Subsequent events seem to have confirmed the truth of Warner's words yet members of the England camp are saying his words are disrespectful.
I think not.
Maybe if Warner said Trott is weak, that is disrespectful. He said the shot was weak and it was. He said he saw scared eyes and I am sure he did.
You don't blame the messenger for delivering the truth. Subsequent events seem to have confirmed the truth of Warner's words yet members of the England camp are saying his words are disrespectful.
I think not.
Ayersrock asks when Aussies cry off - I seem to remember Kim Hughes sobbing in front of the cameras some years ago which is generally held to be an admission of weakness
I'm sure Troot is genuinely unwell and should be allowed to recuperate in his own time outside the media gaze - whilst I'm not personally aware of what it is like to suffer mental illness I have known work colleagues who have and it not something you would wish on someone - as for Warner I don't think he said anything out of order - he gave a response to a question and said it as he saw it - absolutely nothing wrong with that and subsequent revelations don't undermine the general tenet of what he describes
I'm sure Troot is genuinely unwell and should be allowed to recuperate in his own time outside the media gaze - whilst I'm not personally aware of what it is like to suffer mental illness I have known work colleagues who have and it not something you would wish on someone - as for Warner I don't think he said anything out of order - he gave a response to a question and said it as he saw it - absolutely nothing wrong with that and subsequent revelations don't undermine the general tenet of what he describes
Why mental illness though?
Where are people getting this information from? All I can find is stress related illness.
Mental illness is merely one of a long list of possible stress related illness.
Why is everybody assuming mental illness, or depression?
Has it been said? Where is the link...?
Where are people getting this information from? All I can find is stress related illness.
Mental illness is merely one of a long list of possible stress related illness.
Why is everybody assuming mental illness, or depression?
Has it been said? Where is the link...?
Pretty clear his stress related illness is "thrush"....
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZvso-CIYAAQ2yt.jpg:large
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZvso-CIYAAQ2yt.jpg:large
How thick are these aussies? Trott could have easily used an excuse like an injury or not thinking he is up to it sportingly, instead he has admitted to basically having mental problems, why the fcuk would you do that if it isn't real?
I am not here to say he is claiming this falsely.
But you did ask....
Mainly everyone in cricket is treading on eggshells around these mental health issues in recent years. Does anyone really doubt that is what we are talking about here? A person who cares too much about their public image could see it as a way to avoid intense criticism.
I'm sure others could think of other possible reasons.
If Trott is suffering a stress related illness not linked to mental health then I am quite sure the England camp would have spelled this out, for the benefit of BJT.
But you did ask....
Mainly everyone in cricket is treading on eggshells around these mental health issues in recent years. Does anyone really doubt that is what we are talking about here? A person who cares too much about their public image could see it as a way to avoid intense criticism.
I'm sure others could think of other possible reasons.
If Trott is suffering a stress related illness not linked to mental health then I am quite sure the England camp would have spelled this out, for the benefit of BJT.
Why would they? If the 2 are mutually exclusive, then they would have simply said what it is. But they didn't. They kept it vague.
I have no idea what it is. And it appears everybody else is simply making an assumption that they know. It could be heart disease. I could be asthma. Diabetes. Could be irratable bowl syndrome for all we know.
All are just as likely.
In fact, the most likely, are gastrointestinal problems.
To simply conclude that it is a mental illness, namely chronic depression, is just negligent.
Maybe it is, but there is no reason at all for anybody to make that assumption and simply run with it.
Do you really think, Junior, that if Trott had a case of the trots, that they would have come out and said that his bad form is due to his need to frequent the toilet?
Very doubtful.
I have no idea what it is. And it appears everybody else is simply making an assumption that they know. It could be heart disease. I could be asthma. Diabetes. Could be irratable bowl syndrome for all we know.
All are just as likely.
In fact, the most likely, are gastrointestinal problems.
To simply conclude that it is a mental illness, namely chronic depression, is just negligent.
Maybe it is, but there is no reason at all for anybody to make that assumption and simply run with it.
Do you really think, Junior, that if Trott had a case of the trots, that they would have come out and said that his bad form is due to his need to frequent the toilet?
Very doubtful.
BJT it is correct we are somewhat in the dark by the vague description given.
But if all those possibilities are equally likely, would you like to frame me a book and I'll gladly back mental illness, or something depression related at 3/1. Would you lay it at those odds?
But if all those possibilities are equally likely, would you like to frame me a book and I'll gladly back mental illness, or something depression related at 3/1. Would you lay it at those odds?
No, because I have nothing to base it on except the odds outside of this.
The reality, is most people are suggesting it is, although obviously just from assumption. So it would be ridiculous of me to set it at 3/1 when I know I would get plenty of action in the 1.10 range whether I think that is the odds it should be or not.
The reality, is most people are suggesting it is, although obviously just from assumption. So it would be ridiculous of me to set it at 3/1 when I know I would get plenty of action in the 1.10 range whether I think that is the odds it should be or not.
If you are only offering 1.10 for mental illness/depression, then your claim that five separate possibilities are equally likely doesn't have much credibility BJT. I think it is reasonable to assume mental illness/depression related illness until we are informed otherwise. This is not to say our assumption is anything but that, an assumption.
Trott and the other cry baby bunting tresco should have all their cash taken given a bedsit in Peckham and made to attend a years Samaritan meetings then they might realise how pathetic they sound
I thought the Aussies were sledging all our players and good sort out the men like broad and young root who took a terrible verbalising neither went sobbing back home
I thought the Aussies were sledging all our players and good sort out the men like broad and young root who took a terrible verbalising neither went sobbing back home
Nov 25, 2013 -- 2:43PM, junior007 wrote:
If you are only offering 1.10 for mental illness/depression, then your claim that five separate possibilities are equally likely doesn't have much credibility BJT.
Makes no difference.
It doesn't matter if I think it is 100/1. If I know I will get matched plenty at 1.10, then there is no reason to set the book any higher.
It doesn't matter if I think it is 100/1. If I know I will get matched plenty at 1.10, then there is no reason to set the book any higher.
http://www1.skysports.com/news/12040/7036470/
Trott had a battle with booze in his early days so think his problems go back a while. 32 now, don't think we'll see him in the England side again. Been a good servant to the side.
Trott had a battle with booze in his early days so think his problems go back a while. 32 now, don't think we'll see him in the England side again. Been a good servant to the side.
Are there any psychiatric hospitals in Australia or is there something in the convict genes which makes them immune to mental illness ?
BJT is right to ask about the use of the word 'depression'.
This 'stress related illness' is way too vague to have any meaningful value.
I have had a history of clinical depression so I feel able to comment...
There's also manic depression which others get. Then we have severe anxiety, free floatin anxiety, bipolar, etc etc.
Doctors do not diagnose someone wiht a 'stress related illness' without saying what the illness is!!!
In my view Trescothick gets appalling and debilitating homesickness. I do not believe he is clinically or manicly depressed.
Yardy I think has been clinically depressed.
Trott?? I've no idea other than he's been totally freaked out by MJ. The stress related thingy is an embarrassing smokescreen and pretty patronising to others who know true depression/anxiety.
This 'stress related illness' is way too vague to have any meaningful value.
I have had a history of clinical depression so I feel able to comment...
There's also manic depression which others get. Then we have severe anxiety, free floatin anxiety, bipolar, etc etc.
Doctors do not diagnose someone wiht a 'stress related illness' without saying what the illness is!!!
In my view Trescothick gets appalling and debilitating homesickness. I do not believe he is clinically or manicly depressed.
Yardy I think has been clinically depressed.
Trott?? I've no idea other than he's been totally freaked out by MJ. The stress related thingy is an embarrassing smokescreen and pretty patronising to others who know true depression/anxiety.
I am not a huge Trott fan. I don't like his style of playing. I thought he was wrong in England's ODI side. I saw him bat in the Champions Trophy at the Oval and changed my opinion on that because some of the others were not good. Having said that I know and respect he was an effective cricketer for England particularly in the Test arena.
I saw Trott's first innings. Something was badly wrong I could see it plain as day in his face and in his eyes. I felt immediately he should be dropped because he could not contribute and this after the first innings only. Something is not right I agree with DStyle. We don't know what is going on. Floweer is keeping quiet, lying, being economical with the truth or all or some of these things.
All I do know is he should not be playing. Now his technique may have been found out and he can't cope with that or he has a mental issue whatever I don't really care but I think he has been given poor duty of care by the management whoever they are ( not just Flower ).
Further to that the English batting technical frailties exposed by Australia's management and bowlers has been evident since early summer. I am seething that this has not been addressed adequately but, whatever, has happened to Trott I think but don't know for sure, is disgusting. I don't think he should have been playing end of.
With regard to Warner and Clarke I don't know what they knew. I haven't got a problem with Warner saying what he did on the pitch. I don't like it but I don't make the rules. Clarke just has no class, again I am not angry at him. What annoys me most is if and I haven't directly heard, Cook, complaining about it.
If England can't use this to galvanise and fight back then they deserve to take it up the jacksy. No team I ever played against would be allowed to give that sort of stuff and not get it back biblical. You can stiff upper lip and take the moral high ground all you like ( and I do ) but sometimes you have to communicate in a common language. You need to speak to that opposition in the language they understand. We got 3 or 4 two meter plus fast bowlers. The batsmen have to stand up and be counted. I remember watching Derek Underwood once before they had stump mikes. You could hear every time he was hit but he never took a step away from the ball. England really need to stand up now.
As for some of the baying Aussies thank God you have only beaten England once after how many attempts! Enjoy your day in the sun!
This whole business is bad. Not sure what has happened but something is wrong. Oh and well played MJ. I said before the series started he is a match winning bowler and that Aussie needed one as they have not been able to effectively bowl sides out. He supplied the cutting edge and his triumph is all the more laudable after his personal travails at the hands of the Barmy Army.
It is also great to see a fast bowler cause havoc. They call it test Cricket for a reason
!
I saw Trott's first innings. Something was badly wrong I could see it plain as day in his face and in his eyes. I felt immediately he should be dropped because he could not contribute and this after the first innings only. Something is not right I agree with DStyle. We don't know what is going on. Floweer is keeping quiet, lying, being economical with the truth or all or some of these things.
All I do know is he should not be playing. Now his technique may have been found out and he can't cope with that or he has a mental issue whatever I don't really care but I think he has been given poor duty of care by the management whoever they are ( not just Flower ).
Further to that the English batting technical frailties exposed by Australia's management and bowlers has been evident since early summer. I am seething that this has not been addressed adequately but, whatever, has happened to Trott I think but don't know for sure, is disgusting. I don't think he should have been playing end of.
With regard to Warner and Clarke I don't know what they knew. I haven't got a problem with Warner saying what he did on the pitch. I don't like it but I don't make the rules. Clarke just has no class, again I am not angry at him. What annoys me most is if and I haven't directly heard, Cook, complaining about it.
If England can't use this to galvanise and fight back then they deserve to take it up the jacksy. No team I ever played against would be allowed to give that sort of stuff and not get it back biblical. You can stiff upper lip and take the moral high ground all you like ( and I do ) but sometimes you have to communicate in a common language. You need to speak to that opposition in the language they understand. We got 3 or 4 two meter plus fast bowlers. The batsmen have to stand up and be counted. I remember watching Derek Underwood once before they had stump mikes. You could hear every time he was hit but he never took a step away from the ball. England really need to stand up now.
As for some of the baying Aussies thank God you have only beaten England once after how many attempts! Enjoy your day in the sun!
This whole business is bad. Not sure what has happened but something is wrong. Oh and well played MJ. I said before the series started he is a match winning bowler and that Aussie needed one as they have not been able to effectively bowl sides out. He supplied the cutting edge and his triumph is all the more laudable after his personal travails at the hands of the Barmy Army.
It is also great to see a fast bowler cause havoc. They call it test Cricket for a reason
!
hope you're better Injera. I've had plenty of friends who have needed professional help and appear to have beaten it.
"The stress related thingy is an embarrassing smokescreen and pretty patronising to others who know true depression/anxiety. "
I didn't want to go so far as to say the second bit, but I agree with you completely. I also think that applied to that horrible program Flintoff did.
"The stress related thingy is an embarrassing smokescreen and pretty patronising to others who know true depression/anxiety. "
I didn't want to go so far as to say the second bit, but I agree with you completely. I also think that applied to that horrible program Flintoff did.
The point I was trying to make
Is he depressed because his batting is crap or is it his depression that is causing a crap batting display ?
Is he depressed because his batting is crap or is it his depression that is causing a crap batting display ?
hope you're better Injera. I've had plenty of friends who have needed professional help and appear to have beaten it.
You must be a right barrel of laughs to be around if all you mates have gone on to seek professional help.
You must be a right barrel of laughs to be around if all you mates have gone on to seek professional help.
Quite a few poster on here in need of professional help tbf
Lack of understanding in society shown here on this forum. Would not wish depression on my worst enemy ; if you break your leg it needs to mend and this is the same with mental illness. Massive stigma towards mental illness in this country.
6 months a year in saudi 12 hr shifts,oil rig workers etc etc, yet it seems an easy exuse for silver spooned cricketers,should send him to camerons sickness checks and he,d be on the 1st plane back tomorrow
Have to agree a-t, classless from the brawler. Plenty of people would have washed themselves of this knuckle head in the summer and again he has let himself down.
It is very sad, but not altogether unsurprising, that people are making a 'link' between stress and how wealthy you are, or what kind of job you perform.
Someone also suggested that soldiers don't suffer from stress, they just 'get on with it.' You sir, are an utter retard and clearly have no knowledge on this subject.
Someone also suggested that soldiers don't suffer from stress, they just 'get on with it.' You sir, are an utter retard and clearly have no knowledge on this subject.
Why could the management not have dealt with this 'in house' ?
His form was rubbish so Flowers could just of announced that Trott had been dropped
Would of avoided all this furore which reflects so badly on the management for picking such a mentally brittle individual and also on Trott himself and will undermine the morale of the touring party
Like it or not it will probably also confirm the impression amongst the aussies of whingeing poms and they will now go for the jugular rather than be too sympathetic
After all its warfare out there and the gloves are off
His form was rubbish so Flowers could just of announced that Trott had been dropped
Would of avoided all this furore which reflects so badly on the management for picking such a mentally brittle individual and also on Trott himself and will undermine the morale of the touring party
Like it or not it will probably also confirm the impression amongst the aussies of whingeing poms and they will now go for the jugular rather than be too sympathetic
After all its warfare out there and the gloves are off
Pastie - Trott's condition has not been diagnosed therefore it prompts discussion and inevitable confusion.
If he has clinical depression or severe anxiety then let the ECB say so.
This 'stress related illness' phrase is I'm afraid nonsense.
If we're not careful employees up and down the country will use this phrase to take time off work when they feel a bit of pressure.
As I say if Trott has a mental complaint let it be defined but please ECB, don't do the smoke and mirrors trick....
If he has clinical depression or severe anxiety then let the ECB say so.
This 'stress related illness' phrase is I'm afraid nonsense.
If we're not careful employees up and down the country will use this phrase to take time off work when they feel a bit of pressure.
As I say if Trott has a mental complaint let it be defined but please ECB, don't do the smoke and mirrors trick....
it's pretty clear what's gone on here, imo. trott's batting style's always screamed obsessive-compulsive, which is an anxiety disorder and co-morbid with depression in about 75% of cases.
you can't really blame the aussies if that's the case and recent events have worsened it. either he's fit to play or he isn't. if you had a rugby player with a weak neck, say, you wouldn't pick him for a six nations game then expect the opposition to go easy on him because it might break.
if it's that bad, don't pick him. if it isn't, don't try to use it as a stick to beat the opposition with after you lose. especially if they didn't even know about it, which seems to be the case.
you can't really blame the aussies if that's the case and recent events have worsened it. either he's fit to play or he isn't. if you had a rugby player with a weak neck, say, you wouldn't pick him for a six nations game then expect the opposition to go easy on him because it might break.
if it's that bad, don't pick him. if it isn't, don't try to use it as a stick to beat the opposition with after you lose. especially if they didn't even know about it, which seems to be the case.
well said EL Presidente!
If I was an opposition bowler I would have bowled at him off two paces to unnerve him while he was marking out his guard. that is a good spot by you about obsessive-compulsive. I am not a Dr and am old school unsympathetic generally but that man was ill and it was shocking to see.
No blame to you Convicts but expect some interest back. We sow the seed, we grow the seed...we reap the seed!
Oh and remember you are only President for life!
If I was an opposition bowler I would have bowled at him off two paces to unnerve him while he was marking out his guard. that is a good spot by you about obsessive-compulsive. I am not a Dr and am old school unsympathetic generally but that man was ill and it was shocking to see.
No blame to you Convicts but expect some interest back. We sow the seed, we grow the seed...we reap the seed!
Oh and remember you are only President for life!
so the aussies on here aren't pulling their punches and why should they? this is a battle and for wjhatever reason trott wanted out. bring on the next warrior, the battle moves onj. that's always been the way.
just one small point - hes not a pom
just one small point - hes not a pom
probably worth adding that OCD and anxiety disorders generally can be a truly horrible experience for people. I knew this woman who'd had it really badly when she was younger. she told me that once she flew to ireland and on the flight she got so hung up about whether she'd turned the gas off that as soon as they landed, she got on the first flight home to check.
it kind of sounds funny, but imagine living like that
it kind of sounds funny, but imagine living like that
Trottys tops the list of spoilt sporting cowards IMO
Thorpe. Think his missus was batting around
Tresco Almost as pathetic as trotty
Flintoff. Ego problems hair falling out
At. Least Ronnie Osullivan downer was probably drug induced and at least he had dodgy parents
But all the rest come from spoilt middle class backgrounds and were all in massive decline in form
At least cobain moon Joplin Morrison and Hendrix had the decency to kill themselves when their careers were going down the drain can't imagine trotty being man enough for that lol
Thorpe. Think his missus was batting around
Tresco Almost as pathetic as trotty
Flintoff. Ego problems hair falling out
At. Least Ronnie Osullivan downer was probably drug induced and at least he had dodgy parents
But all the rest come from spoilt middle class backgrounds and were all in massive decline in form
At least cobain moon Joplin Morrison and Hendrix had the decency to kill themselves when their careers were going down the drain can't imagine trotty being man enough for that lol
have you ever considered a career as a therapist jd?
Hopefully the next cocktail mix he takes will finish jermaine off permanently - fecking idiot
2 things. I am merely pointing out we have no idea what the issue is. I know depression and anxiety, and know it is far from pleasant and far from selective in regards to "class". Happiness after all does not come from money, and while we are not directly talking about happiness here, it doesn't really matter how much money, or how easy somebodies life appears.
But we don't know, so shouldn't be judging anything based on it. We also know that if he was playing, he was seen by all as fit to play and as such is open to any strategy allowed to attack his wicket and his future wickets.
The other thing, is to WD. I agree you are right in that there is no point simply standing by letting people get away with anything. But you really don't know if this was a reaction to something England did, or Clarke is just "classless" (maybe paraphrasing, maybe you said "has no class" which is obviously the same things).
Do you know for sure that Anderson never did anything to warrant a reaction? I highly doubt it, more assumptions.
Have a look at your reactions when Aus questioned the light in the last test. That was a reaction, yet nobody remembers why there was an issue.
The supersub? Another from England. The showers during the cricket? England. Bodyline? England. Seems to be a very common thread in regards to alot of things cricket in that England seem to be the ones bending the rules and playing dirty to the point where either rules get changed, or other teams utilise the same strategies.
And it is hardly the worst thing ever said. There are arm guards and all sorts batsmen wear. I am sure this one might be considered worse though
Malcolm Marshall was bowling to an out-of-touch David Boon. Marshall: "Now David, are you going to get out now or am I going to have to bowl around the wicket and kill you?"
Not that it is a competition, but really if you can get under the skin of somebody like Anderson and make him try and replicate Australias bowling, then I am sure they will hit that 130km/h bouncer to all ends of the ground. Anderson is simply a medium swing bowler. As is the rest of the team really. None of them got over 140km/h at any point in the first innings. Johnson didn't bowl a ball slower than 144. The top 3 Pom bowlers spent the day in the 132-133km/h range.
Either that is them, or there is something drastically wrong, with all of them.
All good saying you have 3 2m+ bowlers, but 130 clicks will be 130 clicks all day long.
And considering the strategy to Clarke has been to bowl short at his throat, I would make an assumption that there has been something said to him in regards to him being hurt, or at the very least scared to being hurt. Just an assumption, but would make plenty of sense to cause a reaction like that. That just doesn't come from nowhere, he is much smarter than that.
But we don't know, so shouldn't be judging anything based on it. We also know that if he was playing, he was seen by all as fit to play and as such is open to any strategy allowed to attack his wicket and his future wickets.
The other thing, is to WD. I agree you are right in that there is no point simply standing by letting people get away with anything. But you really don't know if this was a reaction to something England did, or Clarke is just "classless" (maybe paraphrasing, maybe you said "has no class" which is obviously the same things).
Do you know for sure that Anderson never did anything to warrant a reaction? I highly doubt it, more assumptions.
Have a look at your reactions when Aus questioned the light in the last test. That was a reaction, yet nobody remembers why there was an issue.
The supersub? Another from England. The showers during the cricket? England. Bodyline? England. Seems to be a very common thread in regards to alot of things cricket in that England seem to be the ones bending the rules and playing dirty to the point where either rules get changed, or other teams utilise the same strategies.
And it is hardly the worst thing ever said. There are arm guards and all sorts batsmen wear. I am sure this one might be considered worse though
Malcolm Marshall was bowling to an out-of-touch David Boon. Marshall: "Now David, are you going to get out now or am I going to have to bowl around the wicket and kill you?"
Not that it is a competition, but really if you can get under the skin of somebody like Anderson and make him try and replicate Australias bowling, then I am sure they will hit that 130km/h bouncer to all ends of the ground. Anderson is simply a medium swing bowler. As is the rest of the team really. None of them got over 140km/h at any point in the first innings. Johnson didn't bowl a ball slower than 144. The top 3 Pom bowlers spent the day in the 132-133km/h range.
Either that is them, or there is something drastically wrong, with all of them.
All good saying you have 3 2m+ bowlers, but 130 clicks will be 130 clicks all day long.
And considering the strategy to Clarke has been to bowl short at his throat, I would make an assumption that there has been something said to him in regards to him being hurt, or at the very least scared to being hurt. Just an assumption, but would make plenty of sense to cause a reaction like that. That just doesn't come from nowhere, he is much smarter than that.
In the next test England must start with Finn - we don't have the bowlers to bowl 90mph (is that equivalent to 140kmh) but Finn is more likely to take wickets on these pitches than the others - he might concede runs a plenty but in the position England now find themselves I don't believe we have much option - as for the batting I would move Root to three and play Ben Stokes who will also give give an option with his bowling - I would also play Bairstow as keeper - Prior is completely out of form with the bat and the fact is we now need to be pro-active and try and assert ourselves otherwise we will be steamrollered by the opposition who have their tails up - the WACA was always going to be a difficult proposition anyway so Adelaide really needs a concerted effort to try and regain some momentum otherwise that little urn will be travelling in a southerly direction
By: salmon spray
Date Joined: 10 Jan 07 Add contact | Send message When: 25 Nov 13 15:44 Joined: Date Joined: 10 Jan 07 | Topic/replies: 26,035 | Blogger: salmon spray's blog
Are there any psychiatric hospitals in Australia or is there something in the convict genes which makes them immune to mental illness ?
mental hospitals? what are they?
Date Joined: 10 Jan 07 Add contact | Send message When: 25 Nov 13 15:44 Joined: Date Joined: 10 Jan 07 | Topic/replies: 26,035 | Blogger: salmon spray's blog
Are there any psychiatric hospitals in Australia or is there something in the convict genes which makes them immune to mental illness ?
mental hospitals? what are they?
Captain Christy
Date Joined: 08 Mar 03 Add contact | Send message When: 25 Nov 13 13:23 Joined: Date Joined: 08 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 8,440 | Blogger: Captain Christy's blog
Let's put it simply just for the aussies.. even a thick aussie c***t could see that there was something very unusual about how Trott was looking, a professional cricketer doesn't have 'scared eyes' when facing a cricket ball delivered Mitchell fcuking Johnson.
guess what, your whole team ( poms ) had scardey cat eyes
Date Joined: 08 Mar 03 Add contact | Send message When: 25 Nov 13 13:23 Joined: Date Joined: 08 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 8,440 | Blogger: Captain Christy's blog
Let's put it simply just for the aussies.. even a thick aussie c***t could see that there was something very unusual about how Trott was looking, a professional cricketer doesn't have 'scared eyes' when facing a cricket ball delivered Mitchell fcuking Johnson.
guess what, your whole team ( poms ) had scardey cat eyes
I can't pretend to have a strong view on the rights and wrongs of this saga, I would hate to point the finger at anybody regarding Trott's early departure ......there is however one cruel irony that has until now escaped my attention, Warner and Johnson the unwitting Aussie Cricketers at the centre of this sad little drama are both sporting Moustache's in order to raise awareness around the condition of male depression!
This is a complex issue that the UK media haven't helped by using the word 'stress-related condition'. It's clear from the number of interviews that it is a form of depression and having lost a friend to this earlier in the year, you can only feel for him. The England camp were aware of his condition, which he's had for many years. in some ways, it makes his England performances over the years all the more remarkable.
Decent article on Trott here:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/current/story/692537.html
http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013-14/content/current/story/692537.html
Good article Biscuit and even more reason to be angry at the management!
That drawing of the guard should have been picked up. What I don't understand is why the opposition complained about it but did nothing about it. It was clear to me to be an anchor or trigger behaviour so why didn't anyone bowl when he wasn't ready? I would have! The rules is he has to be ready. That is a side issue however.
It is quite clear there was something wrong with him and the more you think the worse it gets. I really feel he has been let down. I don't think you can question his integrity or bravery. Has anybody on this forum actually played against 90mph fast bowling consistently?
I really don't think England fans have a problem with sledging in general or Warner in particular but I just don't like Michael Clarke and I'd like to shove his head down the toilet. I don't like sledging but you have to play what is in front of you. I just wouldn't let anyone take liberties and I think maybe some of the anger of England fans was a response to being rolled over.
As a matter of interest regarding Trott. I'd invite anyone to have a look at the Rumble in the Jungle. In the first round have a good look at Ali's eyes. He was scared out of his tiny. His eyes were huge just like Trott. He threw 12 right hand leads in that round. That wasn't a tactic that was fear. He put himself in harms way and over came. I think Trott showed courage to get out there when he was afraid.
I really haven't got a problem with Aus. I just don't think they have much of a sense of humour. Malcolm Marshall was funny in his sledge to Boon. I am not surprised some Australians don't get it.
That drawing of the guard should have been picked up. What I don't understand is why the opposition complained about it but did nothing about it. It was clear to me to be an anchor or trigger behaviour so why didn't anyone bowl when he wasn't ready? I would have! The rules is he has to be ready. That is a side issue however.
It is quite clear there was something wrong with him and the more you think the worse it gets. I really feel he has been let down. I don't think you can question his integrity or bravery. Has anybody on this forum actually played against 90mph fast bowling consistently?
I really don't think England fans have a problem with sledging in general or Warner in particular but I just don't like Michael Clarke and I'd like to shove his head down the toilet. I don't like sledging but you have to play what is in front of you. I just wouldn't let anyone take liberties and I think maybe some of the anger of England fans was a response to being rolled over.
As a matter of interest regarding Trott. I'd invite anyone to have a look at the Rumble in the Jungle. In the first round have a good look at Ali's eyes. He was scared out of his tiny. His eyes were huge just like Trott. He threw 12 right hand leads in that round. That wasn't a tactic that was fear. He put himself in harms way and over came. I think Trott showed courage to get out there when he was afraid.
I really haven't got a problem with Aus. I just don't think they have much of a sense of humour. Malcolm Marshall was funny in his sledge to Boon. I am not surprised some Australians don't get it.
There really are some dumb asses on here - the increasingly naive jermain winning atm! What were eng supposed to say about why he went home - what would have placated people - being lied to? Why would they say something like this when any number of reasons could have been given?
He has had a well documented battle with alcoholism (many of you speak as if you have no knowledge of that!) so there may well be some sort of mental illness and possible depression. All this 'we need to be told' is pathetically selfish - no you don't, Trott needs to get the help he needs and what a bunch of no marks on here think/want (me included) really isn't important. Questions can be asked (and answered) later.
He has had a well documented battle with alcoholism (many of you speak as if you have no knowledge of that!) so there may well be some sort of mental illness and possible depression. All this 'we need to be told' is pathetically selfish - no you don't, Trott needs to get the help he needs and what a bunch of no marks on here think/want (me included) really isn't important. Questions can be asked (and answered) later.
"I really don't think England fans have a problem with sledging in general or Warner in particular"
Interesting to read bumble's comments on the sledging:
"We have the benefit of using a stump microphone on Sky which is not allowed to go to air and I have to say that some of the stuff that was going on there went too far.
I’m a big lad who has heard a few things in my time but David Warner in particular came out with some really nasty, horrible stuff"
Warner has since come out and said that some of the comments "went a little bit too far".
I agree with you though Whispering, i don't have a problem with sledging in general as long as it doesn't become too personal. Some of the classics with Merv Hughes are brilliant.
Interesting to read bumble's comments on the sledging:
"We have the benefit of using a stump microphone on Sky which is not allowed to go to air and I have to say that some of the stuff that was going on there went too far.
I’m a big lad who has heard a few things in my time but David Warner in particular came out with some really nasty, horrible stuff"
Warner has since come out and said that some of the comments "went a little bit too far".
I agree with you though Whispering, i don't have a problem with sledging in general as long as it doesn't become too personal. Some of the classics with Merv Hughes are brilliant.
Spyker
As I had one of my closest friends kill herself in 1992. I'm well aware and very sympathetic to people like fashanu who have genuinely met the black dog. I believe 6 nfl stars killed themselves in a year or so alone
But have no sympathy towards the ones who really just have the back door trotts usually as their careers decline and claim to be bi polar or one of these other fancy names doctors have for when they can't find anything wrong
As I had one of my closest friends kill herself in 1992. I'm well aware and very sympathetic to people like fashanu who have genuinely met the black dog. I believe 6 nfl stars killed themselves in a year or so alone
But have no sympathy towards the ones who really just have the back door trotts usually as their careers decline and claim to be bi polar or one of these other fancy names doctors have for when they can't find anything wrong
So Jermain you are unaware of TROTTS WELL DOCUMENTED BATTLE WITH ALCOHOLISM THAT HE HAS HAD THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER or is that irrelevant at this time? Of course we could guess as to the reasons why he was/is an alcoholic but lets not eh?
spyker - is this true, Trott an alcoholic?
if so, it is the first time i seen or heard it mentioned.
if so, it is the first time i seen or heard it mentioned.
Warner has a problem with alcohol too, he punched out that one direction fanboy Root.
That's the best way to deal with it imo
That's the best way to deal with it imo
Yeah happy did a series of interviews back in 2011 - google it. SC - yeah alcoholism with a bit of violence at the nearest target may well be the norm for you aussies, we accept that - good to see you finally acknowledging that fact!
any riots lately? surprised you aren't at one right now tbh
Nov 26, 2013 -- 12:09PM, spyker wrote:
So Jermain you are unaware of TROTTS WELL DOCUMENTED BATTLE WITH ALCOHOLISM THAT HE HAS HAD THROUGHOUT HIS CAREER or is that irrelevant at this time? Of course we could guess as to the reasons why he was/is an alcoholic but lets not eh?
Yet to see the Barmy Army sent home for "stress related illness".....
Alcoholic trott well that makes it worse. Fu cking pansy
That will cure up nicely when he hasn't got any cash rolling in
Reckon you should be able to drink during games anyway Nice bottle of claret while down at long on then staggering in bowling 90 mph beamers
In fact I believe anything should go in sport steroids crack smack booze why not if it makes you play better
And stop calling my root a one d fanboy good I happen to know he's into the Edgar broughton band
That will cure up nicely when he hasn't got any cash rolling in
Reckon you should be able to drink during games anyway Nice bottle of claret while down at long on then staggering in bowling 90 mph beamers
In fact I believe anything should go in sport steroids crack smack booze why not if it makes you play better
And stop calling my root a one d fanboy good I happen to know he's into the Edgar broughton band
You are a fool jermain and god forbid you grow up and actually do care about anybody who has had difficulties and can't cope - the old 'i knew somebody who.....' is a cowards response to ignorance of a subject - which you clearly have. Good day.
don't make me bump the aaron ramsey thread again jermain...
Bump it viva and show what a sneaky little reporter you are mate
Unlike most this is only my 2nd I'd you know what happened to my first don't you mr know it all
The idea of a forum is opinions and again unlike others although sometimes extreme I never knowingly post a untruth
Unlike most this is only my 2nd I'd you know what happened to my first don't you mr know it all
The idea of a forum is opinions and again unlike others although sometimes extreme I never knowingly post a untruth
jermaine is funny imo
what was your previous id though and why were you banned?
what was your previous id though and why were you banned?
One is reminded of the Keith Miller quote when it comes to this case 'Pressure is a Messerchmitt up your a r s e, playing cricket is not'
don't think you're going to get banned for saying aaron ramsey's crap jd. forum would be bloody empty if it worked like that.
and btw I've never reported anyone. what did you get banned for before, anyway?
and btw I've never reported anyone. what did you get banned for before, anyway?
havent read all this yet...I will do at some point...imo aussies have done a legitimate job on trott....absolutely nothing wrong with anything they've done and if they don't twist the knife and ask whos next for the ticket home ...then they aren't the enemy I know them to be...advantage massively with them....if I was a ref id be calling the fight off already....get on the plane before the waca where you might get hurt .....im lumping on Australia for the ashes.....if im wrong then I can only say what a great comeback England did
It really is a turnaround after enjoying years of Ashes success after only 1 bad test black shuck. And look at the England player's attitude to the Aussie press after landing in Aussie Springs - fingers in their ears, 'na na can't hear you' good grief. Why not give them some fighting talk instead of sulking? Psychologically the Aussies are winning this hands down.
Spot on with the Keith Miller remark - it is only a sporting event, however it is perceived by some. Irrespective of the comments on and off the field; they are just that and I've never been hurt by criticism or derogatory comments
I've enjoyed reading this thread.
There is no reason why the Aussies shouldn't be dishing out some stick to the English, after all they've had to put up with plenty themselves over the last few years. England haven't played there best for a while (including during the win in the last series). Maybe they are on the decline, that's sport. The Adelaide test will be crucial for England, if I was having a bet it would be on the draw.
I agree with Geordie regarding personal criticism, where I come from the response to this would be on the lines of 'how does f*** o** sound'.
There is no reason why the Aussies shouldn't be dishing out some stick to the English, after all they've had to put up with plenty themselves over the last few years. England haven't played there best for a while (including during the win in the last series). Maybe they are on the decline, that's sport. The Adelaide test will be crucial for England, if I was having a bet it would be on the draw.
I agree with Geordie regarding personal criticism, where I come from the response to this would be on the lines of 'how does f*** o** sound'.
http://post.jagran.com/Drinking-almost-finished-my-cricketing-career-Jonatha...
I was banned for alerting the world Steven gerrard shaved his forehead and a few other derogatory comments about him.
I was called no****hope .
I was half joking viva but am sorry when I looked at my post was a bit fierce.
I actually thought the Ramsey thread was very funny when u look now
I was called no****hope .
I was half joking viva but am sorry when I looked at my post was a bit fierce.
I actually thought the Ramsey thread was very funny when u look now
no worries, jd. would be no fun on here if you couldn't go a bit OTT once in a while.
nothing wrong with him
burn out, poor form, found out and nothing more.
as Vaughan says, statements like ‘I’m not crazy I was just burnt out!’ show little respect to those suffering from genuine mental health problems.
"poor and weak" would probably be an apt description of Trott's desertion.
whom might we best attribute that quote to i wonder?
burn out, poor form, found out and nothing more.
as Vaughan says, statements like ‘I’m not crazy I was just burnt out!’ show little respect to those suffering from genuine mental health problems.
"poor and weak" would probably be an apt description of Trott's desertion.
whom might we best attribute that quote to i wonder?
didnt fancy mitchell so cut and run and come back for the sri lankan and indian medium pacers
Trott was scared,
Could see it in his wide eyes and smiling. Bought the Party Line though, stress related mental health bullshit, even blamed the management for exposing him when " ill "!
On reflection I think Trott was a bully boy who couldn't take it back. I don't have much sympathy for people who dish it out to others but can't take it back with interest. Maybe that is why I dislike the Convicts
I haven't got a problem with Warner though. Talks the talk and walks the walk. I think they call it fair dinkum. Would still love to shove his head down a toilet though
Could see it in his wide eyes and smiling. Bought the Party Line though, stress related mental health bullshit, even blamed the management for exposing him when " ill "!
On reflection I think Trott was a bully boy who couldn't take it back. I don't have much sympathy for people who dish it out to others but can't take it back with interest. Maybe that is why I dislike the Convicts
I haven't got a problem with Warner though. Talks the talk and walks the walk. I think they call it fair dinkum. Would still love to shove his head down a toilet though
Even the "Englanders" recruited from overseas are cry babies now 
not sure he can ever be picked again
he's having a laugh if he thinks he can walk straight back in against the medium paced dross served up by sri lanka and india this summer having quit having to face mitchell johnson
he's having a laugh if he thinks he can walk straight back in against the medium paced dross served up by sri lanka and india this summer having quit having to face mitchell johnson
Not good enough anyway regardless of the rest of it. Wouldn't make the second 11 in South Africa or Australia
Mar 17, 2014 -- 4:50PM, FredRescue wrote:
Even the "Englanders" recruited from overseas are cry babies now
Pomified
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