Wiggins - How has he improved so much?

Just seems odd, if his was a Chinese swimmer loads would be asking questions about it.

clearly juiced

secret engine on his bike imo

been quoted as saying he'd rather stack shelves in the local supermarket than win doping.

Martin was riding with a broken hand. His preparation and form weren't as good as last year prior to the World champs. Conversely Wiggins was in much better form for this race compared to the worlds which came after he broke his collarbone in the 2011 Tour. Crap thread imo.

He looks thinner than ever before. Probably something to do with it.

winning tour de france might be a clue

High altitude training and the areodynamic benefits of dropping weight are the most likely factors as they proved in TDF. Remember that Wiggins has been winning medals now at four different olympics. If he was at it then the law of averages would suggest they would get him. They got Linford Christie twice.

Oval chain rings, warm downs, team spirit and hiring a swimming coach

I.e Hard work. Sad that in this day, everyone always questions how someone wins.

A good haul Rocket.

Yeah I mean how dare anyone question a guy suddenly dominating a sport at the age of 32

He lost the weight 2 years ago and improved markedly because of that -  should have won the TdF last year but crashed and broke his collarbone.

ffs he's won gold medals at 3 consecutive olympics games and even got a bronze in sydney when he was just 20. he's hardly new on the scene

Genius so weight loss with no loss in power.

It was all fat?

one of his coaches from when he was 15 was on earlier and he said

1. you could tell he had the physiological quality, the bike riding talent and the determination
2. Wiggins set his goals to be become a champion and pro bike rider at that time and set out to achieve it

been a long term plan

MASSIVE difference between winning a relatively minor even like individual pursuit and winning a Tour at the age of 32

one of his coaches from when he was 15 was on earlier and he said

1. you could tell he had the physiological quality, the bike riding talent and the determination
2. Wiggins set his goals to be become a champion and pro bike rider at that time and set out to achieve it

been a long term plan


Amazing the physiological ability to Win a Tour only appeared at 32

no it didn't

when did it appear?


When he was at Linda McCartney team? , Cofidis maybe?, Francaise de Jeux maybe?

Nope at the age of nigh on 30 at Garmin and even more so at Sky

Read the Bjarne Riis biography for weight loss tips.

So what are you suggesting? That he is on drugs? Well if you look at power outputs there has never been anything suspicious or unusual about any of his performances. He has been one of the top time triallists in the world for a very long time. Modifications in his goals, and the increasing professionalism of his preparation, especially since the formation of Team Sky has turned potential into success.

If fit Martin and Cancellara would have been much closer to him today, although in the last twelve months I think Wiggo has possibly gone ahead of even of those two legends in time trialling, primarily because of the work Wiggo has done working at lower cadence to boost power, and the oval sprocket.

Wiggins improvement has been completely linear and 'normal', moreover he has always had the talent, hence the fact he is Britain's all time top medal winner at the Olympics.

Anyone who has known about Wiggins for a whole will remember his reaction to his old Cofidis team being thrown out of the tour for drugs offences, when he threw all his team kit in the bin and went home swearing never to ride for the team again. Without wishing to sound naive, Wiggins would never dope.

Lance Armstrong lost a lot of weight.

Aug 1, 2012 -- 10:04PM, kincsem wrote:

Lance Armstrong lost a lot of weight.

Lance Armstrong had cancer, chemotherapy and radiotherapy. There will always be suspicions over Lance's career, but he has yet to fail a single drugs tests.

Great answer Marychain. And I'm sure David Millar would know if Wiggo or any of his teammates were doping and do something about it.

However he has had old samples test positive for things that couldn't be tested for at the time, had virtually his whole team and entourage come out as say they saw he was doping AND had sports scientists say that some of his performances were about 10% beyond human capacity.

Armstrong that is.

Oval Sprocket, Low Cadence (Armstrongs argument was his strength at high cad), etc etc..... Its all opinions and everyone has one.


I disagree MaryChain, You cannot reasonably say his improvement has been Linear, he was always a great track rider.

He was a average flat rider who rode well (not near the best) in time trials until the age of 30+.
I remember his reaction to Cofidis......Means NOTHING. We've all heard the words of many athletes proven liers later. Thats not to say Wiggins has done wrong. No proof he has ever lied, but I find questioning of him reasonable given the sports history. He can expect it.

Even if Armstrong was fully clean, and despite all the negative tests I'll always doubt, I'm unsure his Tour career was all its made out to be, when his domestiques and key team players weren't clean.

And I'm sure David Millar would know if Wiggo or any of his teammates were doping and do something about it.


Fishing bait of the Year

Diamond Joe u clown, Wiggins gets tested every 5 bloody minutes for every drug under the sun and his blood is monitored for any sign of red blood cell level above normal. WTF do you think he's on?? Roger Ramjet power pills??! You are either a very boring fisherman or deeply idiotic. p.s. Cadel Evans won the tour for the first time last year aged 34 - i suppose he was on drugs as well?!

He was winning prologues at the highest level from almost as soon as he started to focus on the road, circa 2007. In his first tour he was 4th in the TT, just behind a doped up Armstrong. Post Beijing he has been improved steadily each year, nothing remarkable or dramatic, just making tiny adjustments all the time. You only have to look at his TTing to see he combines power and style better than any rider out there.

This isn't some Indurain figure who blows everyone else away with sheer engine, to me that would be troubling, it's as much to do with the fact that he is the most efficient rider.

Diamond Joe u clown, Wiggins gets tested every 5 bloody minutes for every drug under the sun and his blood is monitored for any sign of red blood cell level above normal. WTF do you think he's on?? Roger Ramjet power pills??! You are either a very boring fisherman or deeply idiotic. p.s. Cadel Evans won the tour for the first time last year aged 34 - i suppose he was on drugs as well?!


A boring response Denis. You can't argue the point except with insults. You exaggerate the amount of tests he under goes and expect to some how debate on that point. A certain Lance used to moan about how many tests he under went.....he passed them all. Seems to be falling around his ears now mind.


p.s. Cadel Evans won the tour for the first time last year aged 34 - i suppose he was on drugs as well?!

This is the point that makes me think you must be fishing......Ex Tony Rominger protege who according to Wiki was advised by none other than Michele Ferrari to take up the road.........lets just say there isnt much to debate on this remark



Its like Ireland 16 years ago with Michelle Smith......So blinded by hero worship they couldnt see what was staring them straight in the face. Questions should be asked of him.


Marychain, IMHO there has been no steady improvement. He went from decent (Not great ) TTer to dominating the Tour with Froome.
Sorry but imho that improvement doesnt just magically appear at age 30. His major step came with Garmin, a team full of ex Posties (Vaughters, Vandevelde, Zabriskie etc...) Vandevelde was one who improved in the mountains out of all recognition. Never finishing higher than 24th in ANY Tour, He rides to finish 4th.


He may be clean, but he is NOT beyond questioning

This isn't some Indurain figure who blows everyone else away with sheer engine, to me that would be troubling, it's as much to do with the fact that he is the most efficient rider.


Indurain was hugely efficient as was Armstrong and Ullrich in TTs. I actually thought Dave Millar had the most incredibly smooth style. It proves little imho

I guess we get these kind of threads everytime someone wins easily or improves a lot, for a while :/

Yes, Forest we will

I follow cycling closely. Sky and Team GB have raised the bar in all round preparation. That started with the track, peaking in Beijing, and has now been carried through to the road. Here's some examples. In Europe many cycling teams would step down their training considerably over the close season (November to February) Sky/Team GB have maintained that physical and mental preparation throughout the year, even to the point of leaving their families for 6 week periods and using Tenerife, high altitudes, plenty of climbs, as a base training camp. They've brought in the best trainers/sports scientists/coaches/facilities (Manchester Velodrome and now the Olympic one). This has been expensive but that's the benefit of serious funding - lottery monies and the backing of Europe's biggest broadcaster. We are now at a serious level of financial backing for the best part of 10 years.

A good example would be to compare with horse race training. Martin Pipe 20 years ago changed forever the way horses were trained. His success raised the bar there, now many others follow his methods, water usage, weighing horses.

In a nutshell, Sky/Team GB have some way caught the continentals napping and being in a continued flux over the doping issues, which still seem to linger ominously. To compete, the other teams/countries will have to start thinking more professionally. They will, but they need then to fund it.

Let us see now how the track team perform over the next few days. In the World Championships earlier this year, in Melbourne, the Aussies were able to match GB in most areas. The Germans as well are strong. These and other countries have improved since Beijing.

anyone see the itv doc on him.... hats off to team sky and obviously bradley himself.

sutton is the exact kind of character needed, imo, to get the best out of him

i think wiggins is a great character, great competitor and very talented

the liam gallagher fist pump he did when collecting his teddy and flowers after winning a stage of the tdf always makes me laugh... his interview about drugs at the start of the tour... nice to see a clean, successful rider

Diamond - watch the itv doc on wiggins.

think you'll change your mind

talented but more of a rock star talent... bit like some modern footballers... potential but lazy

was guided by good management and stepped up training... they said before team sky bradley wouldnt really train

The curse of the sport really. Everything about him screams clean to me but to be fair to Diamond the sport has made it so that hardly anything is taken at face value these days.

Wiggins achievements are being massively over-rated by the tub-thumping British media. It was the weakest TdF probably ever & he was no1 rider in a team that was allowed to dictate the race from start to finish with no pressure applied. Then all his main rivals were either no-shows or heavily injured so he had no real time trial opposition yesterday. Is he on some performance enhancers? No idea but his recovery from TdF efforts, and road race efforts was pretty remarkable.

johnnyrant... fu**ing hell.

pathetic post in all honesty... first british man to ever win the tdf... not only that but goes on to win the TT in home olympics and over rated.

what more do you want him to do? go back in time and race a drugged up lance armstrong?

again... if people watch the itv documentary you will see team sky have conditioned him in preparation for this

truly fantastic performance and achievement... credit to cycling and britain

sorry NS - you are clearly one of these cycling anoraks who can't take your blinkers off. You know nothing whatsoever about Wiggins non-use or use of drugs. You are going on his word. Many before have claimed they are clean. It is nothing extraordinary to have a team dominate the TdF to the extent the Sky mob did this year. And given all his biggest rivals weren't taking part, you have to question it.

Aug 2, 2012 -- 9:54AM, Eeternaloptimist wrote:

The curse of the sport really. Everything about him screams clean to me but to be fair to Diamond the sport has made it so that hardly anything is taken at face value these days.

I would offer any odds that he is not on drugs.

In a nutshell, Sky/Team GB have some way caught the continentals napping and being in a continued flux over the doping issues, which still seem to linger ominously. To compete, the other teams/countries will have to start thinking more professionally. They will, but they need then to fund it.


Good point. The euro teams believed they trained scientifically, but in reality they were complacent and Sky has eaten their lunch.
Just like the same people did to the track world.

johnny.... not a racing anorak at all.

i'd say it was wiggins and cavendish who got me interested in the sport... different class to footballers and certain other professional athletes...

watch wiggins interview and listen to him every time drugs are mentioned... i think it's sad that people will tarnish everyone with the same brush...

The Team Sky rider — favourite to be the first British Tour winner — let rip at critics who claim top performers must be taking drugs.

Wiggins, 32, said: “I say they’re just f*****g w*****s. I cannot be doing with people like that.

“It justifies their own bone-idleness because they can’t ever imagine applying themselves to do anything in their lives.

"It’s easy for them to sit under a pseudonym on Twitter and write that sort of s**t, rather than get off their a***s in their own lives and apply themselves and work hard at something and achieve something.

“And that’s ultimately it. C***s.”

If you listed which professional athletes were on drugs, Bradley Wiggins would be at the bottom. To say he is shows a complete lack of understanding of him.

So whereas Wiggins is clean, what, Armstrong, Evans, Schlecks, Contador all are not? So all other TdF wins of the last 10 years or more need to be scrubbed, other than Wiggins win this year which was the only clean win? I find that equally hard to make sense of.

i thought drugs make u put on weight

Aug 2, 2012 -- 1:12PM, xmoneyx wrote:

i thought drugs make u put on weight

No, you are thinking of marriage.

johnny - as i say it is sad you think like that... if you ever get to meet wiggins please let him know your thoughts...

linford christie, ben johnson, justin gatlin.... therefore usuain bolt must be a cheat? should we question his ability and label him a cheat or enjoy the fact he is great?

xmoneyx - loads of various substances out there, some will, some will enhance weight loss

I've not labelled Wiggins anything NS. Just pointing out, all you are doing is trusting one person's word more over all others. Armstrong protests his innocence, Contador did… it is dangerous to be putting Wiggins on a pedestal as the one and only rider you can trust implicitly to be clean.

Aug 2, 2012 -- 1:46PM, johnnyrant wrote:

I've not labelled Wiggins anything NS. Just pointing out, all you are doing is trusting one person's word more over all others. Armstrong protests his innocence, Contador did… it is dangerous to be putting Wiggins on a pedestal as the one and only rider you can trust implicitly to be clean.

Quoted for truth.

Forest000


i thought drugs make u put on weight


No, you are thinking of marriage.

johnny - i think there are many drug cheats in sport ... cycling especially ... stick him on that pedestal and if we have to knock him off then so be it ... until anything untoward has been shown i don't see why it is discussed.

i don't see what is achieved by it... if i have kids in next 4 years and they grow up with wiggins as an idol then fantastic... rather that than john terry or rio ferdinand

Noone's mentioned another reason Wiggo has improved. Dave Brailsford is the best cycling trainer in the world, but even he needed 2/3 years to get on top of road racing at international level - this year it all came together, almost certainly not with the assistance of drugs.

none of wiggo's performances this year have been beyond what a 100% clean athlete is capable of. Compared to the power outputs the likes of Armstrong were putting out in the past he is a complete wimp. All this boring science stuff is obviously far to difficult to understand for the pathetic ranters on this forum who prefer to pass judgment according to their gut instinct. laughable

Noone's mentioned another reason Wiggo has improved. Dave Brailsford is the best cycling trainer in the world, but even he needed 2/3 years to get on top of road racing at international level - this year it all came together, almost certainly not with the assistance of drugs.

the ranters will always rant. i suppose as wiggo himself said, it makes them feel better about their sad little lives

Great quote that.

It's a very dismissive response by Wiggins when the sport is rife with drug cheats and it is a legitimate question. No ranting whatsoever, despite the name - you want to read my proper rants.

Diamond Joe Quimby confirmed as Gold medal in Olympic forum idiot. You talk some sh!te

Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Obv a fishing fred as OP hasn't returned but that Sir Chris Hoy improved rather a lot at the last olympics didn't he - as did the whole cycling team? Redgrave improved a hell of a lot also as his body degenerated with age, he competed in different disciplines yet he still carried on winning - clearly dodgy. In fact, hard work and dedication (with decent funding and technological improvements) clearly have no place in modern sport as everybody must be on drugs anyway!

A more relevant talking point is the bandwagon cycling and Wiggins fans who are all now eulogising about him like he's some great when a month ago most of them wouldn't have even known his name. People need to stop getting caught up in what they are told to think by the media. There's been little objective analysis of what Wiggins has achieved.

You're right.

All he's done is win more Olympic medals than any other Brit and the Tour de France, one of the weakest sporting events in the world and one in which we British have always done well in.

exactly wizard - it certainly was an incredibly weak TdF this year. Someone just off their stabilisers could have been a contender.

whats smells is the improvement not just of wiggins but froome, froome looked to be strolling in the tdf this year yet he's had very little previous form up till he joined team sky, and re blood tests wiggins has refused to announce his blood passport tests despite saying he would be open about it. the excuse given is the team doctors have advised against it!

That sort of stuff likes to be brushed under the carpet though max - heresy to even pose the question according to most on here. It is supposed to be a forum so good work mentioning that.

heresy or hearsay?

If only there was some effective system for testing athletes for drugs by analysing blood - a system that was much better than a few years ago mind. Obv it wouldn't be 100% but they could catch more drug cheats and maybe if there was a system for storing the blood so it could be tested in the future for anything not known about? The athletes could post their results online - along with other scientific data to do with power (and what humans are possible of) that some people understand so we could see if they might be on drugs.
If only there was that system then we could all sleep easier instead of posing silly questions and trying to come across as some radical thinker (but actually coming across as some sleazy tabloid journo) couldn't we?

I hope he's clean but I see no reason for his achievements to go unquestioned.  The one point that sticks with me is his improved TTing.  He was always good but he is now better since losing weight, seems odd.  In the leaked UCI suspect list last year Wiggo was a 5/10, the same score as Contador!

putrid sport

Im not sure wiggins has improved that much as a TTer in the last couple of years. He's probably improved a bit due to hard training and technical work with team sky. The competition hasnt been so strong this year though because Cancellara has not performed as well as a few years ago (badly broken collarbone hindered his fitness) and Tony Martin hasnt been as good this year probably due to several crashes in training and in competition. You have to realise that Wiggins has had a dream run since he broke his collarbone in 2011. He has had no problems or crashes or setbacks of any kind - that makes a big difference to an athlete.

thanks for that valuable contribution moneypenny. dont worry the football season starts soon

Its nice to see most on here can debate without resorting to insults as a minority above have. I respect anyone who sees and believes Wiggins is clean. Its their opinion and everyone has the right to express one.

I find the arguments being made for Wiggins though lack substance. One poster makes out that Sky have brought a new professionalism to the sport. This imho is patently ridiculous. Armstrong was methodically Professional (Whether you believe him a doper or not). The idea that Sky is some sort of "Super Professional" outfit is naive and is simply not backed up with any serious facts.

Johnnyrant above is spot on. I remember hearing Wiggins in 2007 lambasting Moreni, yet this year he castigates Journalists who raise (Fully legitimate questions over the sport).


In relation to watching the ITV dcoumentary.....No thanks, I watched plenty of Armstrong etc....Pointless PR exercises. Watch them at your leisure. To me they say little.

Who are you to decide whose contribution is good or not Sir Denis. You realise a forum is for discussion of opinions......even ones you dont agree with.

In the leaked UCI suspect list last year Wiggo was a 5/10, the same score as Contador!


Yes the incredible thing regarding that report was the open admission from the UCI that it actually existed.


  Those in the five lower categories warranted barely any scrutiny - a total of 156 riders.

   The samples of the 15 riders in category five warranted "precise, and sometimes more affirmative commentary" from scientists, said the report, suggesting they may have been involved in some kind of manipulation.

So hang on are you saying that it's such an amazing feat that he must be on drugs to do it or that it was a weak tdf, a weak tt and therefore nothing special? It almost sounds as if people are just dissing Wiggins with the first thing they think of rather than coming up with any serious proof (or even background to any possible proof)!
Which is it - was it a weak tdf and tt (and therefore the top cyclist that could  maintain form would win) or is it an amazing feat that for any athlete to complete they must be on drugs?

if people want to believe something there is no evidence in the world that will change their opinion

thats true denis

i think the power output numbers are the best gauge, there was a detailed article on the first tough hill climb and there was nothing suspicious in the numbers from Wiggins or Froome both had numbers within the realms of human capability and well below previous tours. Anyone that follows cycling will know this is no overnight success from Wiggins.

I think its natural within cycling to be suspicious because it has such a bad reputation but at least have some sort of basis before calling somebody a cheat.

I suggest you look at the power output from Wiggins and Froome during the tour and if you do that you'll see its well below previous tour winners and within whats humanly possible.

Certainly no overnight success. 12 years at the very least. I suspect this has been a plan for an awful lot more time. With the advent of Dave Brailsford, I bet every single step of Wiggins' career has been carefully planned and managed. But some people just can't gauge that. Sad really.

Dylan, nobody really knows what is humanly possible in a 3 week Tour any more - how could they ?  Saying cycling is cleaner than the 90s (when the top riders had ketchup for blood and had to wake themselves up every night to avoid heart attacks) is not really saying very much at all

Sports scientists will tell you what is possible an hour of effort but they have no real idea how this translates to a 3 week race where the key is recovery. The times for stages and climbs this year were not really any different to 2006 - 2011. For example this year's La Toussuire stage was pretty much an exact replica of the stage in 2006 (the day Floyd Landis forgot to eat / drink) - the overall stage speed was slightly faster this year and so was the ascent of the final climb. The Peyresourde climb this year was done slightly faster than Contador and Rasmussen managed in 2007. One thing's for sure - cycling today looks nothing like cycling in the 1980s pre-EPO / transfusions. We know riders are still doping - it's just to a lesser extent

whats wrong with the time being similar to 2006?? Landis took the drugs for the stage after when he went off like a motorbike on his own and got back all the time he'd lost.

why should cycling in 2012 be the same as 1980s cycling ffs?? the sport has come on massively (like all sports) in terms of technology and training techniques/nutrition etc etc. it'd be pretty strange if they hadnt worked out how to cycle a bit faster in 30 years

Landis was doping the whole of 2006. In fact, by his own admission he was doping for most of his career, not just for one stage of the Tour and not just with testosterone but also with all the high-benefit weapons of the time (EPO, auto transfusions, hgh). 2006 was the year of Operation Puerto with 50+ riders transfusing / storing blood at Dr Fuentes' clinic. Not exactly the cleanest era for cycling. I'm not sure you're really interested though

I never said cycling today should be the same as the 1980s - I said it looked completely different. If cycling was supposed to exactly look like the 1980s I wouldn't have said "nobody really knows what is humanly possible in a 3 week Tour any more". But the 1980s is the last era where you can be fairly confident that the (naturally) best riders were winning

johnnyrant 02 Aug 12 18:22 
exactly wizard - it certainly was an incredibly weak TdF this year. Someone just off their stabilisers could have been a contender.




You sound really clued up on the sport of cycling

Get a sense of humour, Biscuit. That was obviously a joke. It is ok to write facetiously sometimes - quite a good way to try and get others to try and pull their heads out of the sand.

I have a sense of humour is someone is being amusing. You however, are far from it. You're going round in circles here and you don't even know what your own point is.

First your questioning (or just pointing out as you say) whether Wiggins is clean or not, saying we only have his word, then in the next breath you're saying he only won the tour because he was the leader of the most dominant side in a weak tour and his main rivals weren't there. So either he's on something or it was an easy win, make your mind up.

The fact is he's been winning olympic medals for 12 years, it's not as if he's come from nowhere.

The TdF was a weak contest this year, and he may not be clean. Perfectly entitled to throw both those views into the mix. Your extremely weak defence of him is, you should not question Wiggins word. I'd suggest people are perfectly entitled to question it. You are being needlessly pedantic which seems to be your par for the course for you.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2177405/Bradley-Wiggins...

Aussie Genes IMHO

johnnyrant 03 Aug 12 12:52 
The TdF was a weak contest this year, and he may not be clean. Perfectly entitled to throw both those views into the mix. Your extremely weak defence of him is, you should not question Wiggins word. I'd suggest people are perfectly entitled to question it. You are being needlessly pedantic which seems to be your par for the course for you.




So you claim my defence of Britain's greatest ever Olympian, a guy who's been winning medals for 12 years and has never failed a test is extremely weak yet your case against him appears to be, 'other TDF winners have been caught taking drugs, so he must be too'.

I'd leave it biscuit. I think Wiggins' quote that someone used above sums it up.

i know a few tesco shelf fillers on drugs

Ignorant posters like Joe need to study the facts 1st before engaging keyboard

where's the fun in that ?!

On the BBC they said Wiggins weight dropped from 82kg in 2008 to 67kg in 2012.  Wikipedia say 69kg (which is 152lbs) and 150lbs.  He is 6'3", 1m 90cm.
I have read that good cycling climbers have a weight in pounds / height in inches of 2.0, and that is exactly what Wiggins has 150/75 = 2.0.

I've not said he must be, I've said people are entitled to ask the question. Greatest Olympian? That really is taking the biscuit - living up to your name, at least.

Ignorant posters like Joe need to study the facts 1st before engaging keyboardWink


A naive boring response. Can you at least argue the point rather than the man? Complete waste of time posting that.
If you believe Wiggins clean, fair enough. Everyone can respect that and everyone can have different opinions, but argue your point like most above have rather than boring posts name calling.

What evidence would the Wiggins doubters need to see to convince them he was clean?