40,000+ Deaths - and Hancock putting a positive Spin on today's Stats

More cyclist. Hooray!

congratulations to the government for achieving this unenviable result ...

I've been waiting a long time to find out when Chester Zoo is reopening.

Who cares about the 10's of thousands of deaths, when there is such exciting news in the offing?

This muppet is worse than useless! I find it hard to believe they can't find somebody more competent for such an important job.

Sam Coates, of SKY - who broke the 'R Rate Rising' story - now questions Hancock, on the Daily Briefing - and NAILS it.

His question - to Hancock ...

'You seem to be cherry-picking the figures that you quote' ... 'when Cambridge, today, report that the R Rate is Rising in various regions'.

He didn't even suggest it would be able to open at all.

I wonder if they have baboons!

Nor did he explain why a garden centre , supermarket or DIY centre can open and a zoo cannot.

Is it the indoor aspects , food , toilets or something to do with proximity to wild animals ?

I do like this modern generic term 'community'.

I have never been aware of being part of one .

because you cant get an elephant in a garden centre

Zoos do not really fulfill a need. Some people may like to visit them, but in the grand scheme of things, they are not that important.

,
he,s got more neck than a giraffe,

because you cant get an elephant in a garden centre

This is true. You can get one in a room though. And there is a fooking great, massive one in this one.

Strewth - Bloke from Muslim News - supposed to be asking a QUESTION.

Gives us a bloody biased SERMON on BAME

Talk about insular interests.

Maybe once the forum geniuses have identified a way to subtract numbers from a monotonically increasing total they can explain it to the scientific and political community at large, and the bellends in our scummedia.

more face than a herd of hippos. any good?

You're normally a balanced poster onlooker, so your OP is a little disappointing. He can't unwind the historic deaths but the rate of new infections is coming down with is obviously positive, along with hospital admissions and ICU bed take up.

Forget Coates and the rest of the Sky News mob, the gall of him accusing someone else of cherry picking Sky News are like the BBC, the guardian in broadcast form. They emply hundreds of people to cherry pick and present things with the worst possible spin. Their whole raison d'etre is have a narrative that tries to make the government look as bad as they possibly can.

They have cherry picked stats to try to give a false impression

They have had to drop the scientists now

Maybe trump can make a guest appearance next week in an
attempt to give Hancock an air of competence

40,000 that is in reality 65,000...

Whether Angoose likes it or not there's a big chunk of the scientific community that have an agenda against the government. I would take anything forecasted by them with a huge dollop of salt. When this all shakes down, imv the big conclusion with be SAGE in its current form is a pile of poo.

Thank you - Cider - for your opening observation.

I would interpret some of, if not many of,  the Stats/Charts as running at a continual, more Plateau, Level - rather than rapidly reducing, though... and I am concerned that complacency could see this all start increasing, all over again.

The big conclusion is already in

It is that sage is a tiny pile of poo compared to this government

Ah yes, the old scientific community are biased nonsense.

Jun 5, 2020 -- 12:07PM, onlooker wrote:

Thank you - Cider - for your opening observation.I would interpret some of, if not many of,  the Stats/Charts as running at a continual, more Plateau, Level - rather than rapidly reducing, though... and I am concerned that complacency could see this all start increasing, all over again.

That's right they are not rapidly reducing. The government, quite rightly in my view, is balancing things getting back to normal with an acceptable R. It's difficult to know what the detractors' agenda really is if it's not either try to discredit the government in any possible way, or stay in furlough or at home on full pay forever. Likely both!

Jun 5, 2020 -- 12:10PM, n88uk wrote:

Ah yes, the old scientific community are biased nonsense.

A lot of them are. Do you think they are immune from politics and having a world view? Universities are currently about as woke and elitist liberal institutions as there are.

How many of them come out of the woodwork last weekend claiming it's too early to make changes? Yet estimated new infections in the community using actual data fell by 30%.

Like it or not it is political,it is woesome handling of this by a not fit for purpose goverment.
It is a sad circus.

They had a 'mantra' followed the science, well by and large they have followed SAGE guidance.

the numbers are coming down which is good.but sadly are they only coming down because there are less and less vunerable victims? we know its certainly not because what this government have done.ok they have thrown money at folk to stay off work.thats about it.and we all know the piper will have to be paid.guess who will pay the piper!

The government over Riding sage is as political as it gets

Positioning Cummings on sage meetings is as political as it gets

That it has caused an extra 40,000 deaths is a polital reckoning waiting to happen

Overriding

Cummings derangement syndrome again

Whitty explained why he supported the minor changes in an answer that lasted about 15 minutes yesterday.

England having London, being a tiny country for it's population and a massive amount of international travel meant we have suffered badly.

I'm afraid China's communist party is ultimately accountable for all the pain this thing has caused worldwide, the WHO being complicit.

Jun 5, 2020 -- 12:26PM, Cider wrote:

They had a 'mantra' followed the science, well by and large they have followed SAGE guidance.

they have blindly followed SAGE.

Outside of SAGE there is no consensus on the science.

SAGE has failed miserably suffering from group think.

You have nearly every region now with 0.9+ R,and whispers it is gone over 1 in places,maybe going down but odds on to up?,level 4 pandemic warning with a sly hint of trying totwist it to level 3. This is on the verge of lifting restrictions,the ploy of other is to hammer the R rate and that seems to be working.

Jun 5, 2020 -- 12:39PM, lapsy pa wrote:

You have nearly every region now with 0.9+ R,and whispers it is gone over 1 in places,maybe going down but odds on to up?,level 4 pandemic warning with a sly hint of trying totwist it to level 3. This is on the verge of lifting restrictions,the ploy of other is to hammer the R rate and that seems to be working.

In what setting though?

In carehomes, in hospitals, in shops, in homes?

Where are the actual new cases given that 70% of people have no symptoms throughout the 'illness'.

Has r changed by definition, or merely to usefulness to this corrupt government.

I wrote about this before, R is harder to keep down as infections dwindle. Whether it's 0.9 or 1.1 in a specific region is rather moot. Obviously what you need to mitigate against is going anywhere near the natural R.

Government introducing quarantine at a point where it is doing more harm than good



Facemask rules introduced months after they should have been.



Lockdown introduced weeks after it should have been





All government decisions imposed upon sage

The goverment and Boris himself said care homes are coming down,so cross that off,maybe homes,likely factories,keepak in Ireland have sizeable outbreaks,i don't know but suspect homes.

The initial pushing of herd policy very likely has the UK where it is now.

I would say literally what has happened is Whitty and Valance told Boris that r must be below one, and he put it into policy. It's a blunt instrument, and very subjective.

Lol

You wrote about it before

Have you been peer reviewed

"Positioning Cummings on sage meetings is as political as it gets"
God almighty what a mind blowingly stupid thing to say.
He just goes over to the keyboard and spitting ignorant lunatic hate dribbles out.

Nobody is qualified to on here yhtl

Ah so you just abuse me rather than addressing my point
which of course is true

Moy Park was another in NI, IT

Cider

Hence my point about r being redefined

It's usefulness as an indicator has always been
dubious as it is pretty meaningless in reality.

Now rates of infection fall it is of even less use

But having hammered it to provide a message the government
have a legacy they cannot easily dismantle.

I agree. However I can see why it was given prominence. Something tangible for the public.

lapsy, do you know how NI death rates compare to the south?

Nhs on twitter...




Your Health Secretary ladies and gentlemen.

Insisting NHS staff wear surgical masks three months after the pandemic began.

We swear he is just trolling us now.

No Cider,not offhand,i am pleased that there has been a lot of co operation on both sides there though.

It would be a good barometer to see if the differences were down to the different government policies, or immutable factors.

In theory both should be similar given the demography, policy would have to factor in co operation rather than strictly a UK policy but an interesting question.

Ireland reported COVID-19 deaths : 1,670   Population : 4.9M  Deaths per million 338
Northern Ireland reported COVID-19 deaths : 754 (up to 29 May)  Population : 1.9M  Deaths per million 397

Thanks Angoose,near enough,good idea to ban them bonfires in the North of Ireland too.

The R for the first time gets mentioned and its going up in s*itty parts of the country

They are going to control the fack out of us with this full stop now

Does anyone not have a say ?

NI broadly similar to the south then. 

Could be some variance in how the deaths are reported oc.

If 17% higher is broadly similar then yes

It's not top trumps. There are other variables obviously. It's not evidence that supports the hypothesis of policies of the south having a dramatically different outcome.

Lots of other variables, that may have lessened the difference as easily as may have increased it.

Robert Swann and Arlene Foster both went along with an all island policy afaik,again from memory Ireland didn't want much easing until the R rate was 0.4-0-6,i think they have achieved that and for now touch wood can ease,the virus is in the community but in theory ought to be controlled if those figures are right.
Some feckin stark differences,and i am saying that with sadness whether you believe it or not.

.https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/health/northern-ireland-moves-next-phase-18364505

New R-rate published today has allowed further easing of restrictions

And the fact that the R-rate (reproductive rate) of the virus remains below one (0.7-0.9) has made it possible.

Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!

They said in daily briefings up til maybe even yesterday the R rate in UK was same ie 0.7-0.9,this evening on bbc most UK regions were showing say 0.93.0.95 etc,i didn;t see any less than 0.9,might have missed them but most regions were that high.

Say i am right,would it be a desperate measure now to ease? might be no choice as the economy is going to the wall but as on level 4 the so called safety measures look out the window.

The haters will never admit that multi-culture, huge amount of travel international travel too and from the country, demographics and densely populated cities were a recipe for disaster. Regions that don't have these factors have largely escaped from the worst of it.

Yep not the best Cider,still a very slow lockdown and going towards herd immunity were the main factors.

SAGE conclusion looking at all the evidence was that r is 0.7-0.9. That's fact. Clearly it makes sense to take measures at a local level for what is realistically a small difference in the r in certain parts of the country. It's only very marginal and only using models.

You are flitting between scientists and politicians Cider,same as here,you press the bet button yourself,not on what the fella that joined in 02 tho he makes a case.

The quickest way to upset a virologist is to use the phrase “R rate”.
The correct terminology is reproductive number.

why don't government just admit they want to get people back to work now & suffer the consequences of covid hotspots / breakouts in different part of the country ... the 5 conditions aren't fully met and johnson backed himself into a corner with what he has previously said ... effective handling of the crisis has been found wanting at all levels & we are now coming out of lockdown with measures which are haphard; too late & ill judged ... end result will be more unnecessary deaths for which the blame will be shifted to scapegoats who can't respond

Just as well there aren't any virologists hanging out on betfair chitchat.

I'm dominated by logic, lapsy, both a blessing and a curse!

The benefits of partially unwinding lockdown substantially outweigh any negatives in my view. New information may present of course.

Why don't people admit they will do anything to discredit the government and be able to stay at home, being paid, or even worse join the rabble and bend the knee.

No worries Cider,i think Geordie has got it bang on in his post,i agree the lockdown has to be lifted though it is "bad terms" imo at the present time,have a good rest of the evening.

Mind you I doubt virtue signalling is all that popular in the north east

Cool lapsy, thanks. I would frame it that the government wants to get things back up and running predominately over the r rate marginals. To hang their hat on the r rate was probably misguided. Though the r is still meeting the requirements set. The alert level however remains a bit of a mystery.