Cost of lockdown already £1,500,000 per 'life saved'

You have included brexit costs in your estimate.

Lol

Had we locked down 2 weeks earlier costs would be reduced by earlier reopening
and far swifter recovery ( see Greece)

We would have saved another 20,000 lives too.



If we reopen too quickly now we will strangle the recovery before
It begins




THIS IS ABOUT THE 30TH SILLY PROPAGANDA THREAD YOU HAVE STARTED

YOU HAVE ZERO EMPATHY FOR BRITISH PEOPLE

Greeks are starting their holidays

Under 200 deaths

They locked down hard and early

Their government sourced ppe early

They traced known cases.



Our money seems badly spent, in your opinion, because our clownish
corrupt government still managed to slaughter 60k of its citizens
whilst swanning off on birthday treats for family

8.4 million jobs saved, or potentially saved by public funded furlough scheme
as recommended by trade unions.

Think of the anguish these 8.4 million and their dependents would
have suffered.

There was never going to be a surge of deaths over 200,000 though, it was always going to be the number we ended up with but only we'd have got there quicker and it would have looked far more darker, 40,000 would have popped it inside 2 weeks and then the number would have plummeted.

All it did this lockdown was stretch out the event of getting to 40,000 deaths. Nature would have intervened and stopped any mass extinction ffs, the weak would have perished but nature doesn't care about that, you can believe it does but nature doesn't give a fack about what we believe.

I no the right wing are getting their knickers in a twist but its getting hard to keep up,inside trade on a zillion threads moaning about a witch hunt for cummings,yet here,s a thread complaining about a policy LOCKDOWN, that cummings in his rose garden statement said he was the one pushing for it,,

do you want him to go or stay,is he an indiot or a genius ,is this policy the work of a genius or an idiot

when you get yourself straightened out let us no

you,ll have to get yourself one  of them banners,
cummings must stay on one side

cummings must go on the other
a bit lioke 2 letter,s doris

not costing the economy much at all ... money will just get recycled  ... overseas nations it is costing them too  ...if it was just us then that'd be different .

so the real cost is around £7.50 a life  probably.

it's a bit like saying if house prices fall house owners will be worse off  lol

inflation has actually fallen  ....petrol lowest price since petrol was invented

feel sorry for those  thrown out of work ,but they will all get jobs ...it's not like they're idlers who don't want to work

even the homeless  will be housed  ...by order

May 27, 2020 -- 2:05PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

How much should saving a life be worth iyo?

depends how many more years the person is expected to live for.

if that wasn't all good news enough  think of how  the environment has benefited  ...plus the roads will all be shiny new

May 27, 2020 -- 3:16PM, Coachbuster wrote:

not costing the economy much at all ... money will just get recycled  ... overseas nations it is costing them too  ...if it was just us then that'd be different .so the real cost is around £7.50 a life  probably.it's a bit like saying if house prices fall house owners will be worse off  lol

Costing a fortune. We are paying the middle classes £2500 a month each to sit at home and do nothing.

and that lack of polution has turned our climate into a mediterranean one since February 

Would you let them starve insider traitor

A price worth paying. Eh?

May 27, 2020 -- 3:14PM, 1st time poster wrote:

I no the right wing are getting their knickers in a twist but its getting hard to keep up,inside trade on a zillion threads moaning about a witch hunt for cummings,yet here,s a thread complaining about a policy LOCKDOWN, that cummings in his rose garden statement said he was the one pushing for it,,do you want him to go or stay,is he an indiot or a genius ,is this policy the work of a genius or an idiotwhen you get yourself straightened out let us noyou,ll have to get yourself one  of them banners,cummings must stay on one sidecummings must go on the othera bit lioke 2 letter,s doris

It is possible to disagree with a policy and also disagree with a media hate campaign against that person.

Inside trader... most of them do feck all at the best of times  ...they're just doing a bit less work

The good weather has been one of them super bonuses

A normal UK winter and spring and we would have been over stretched


Imagine driving to Barnard Castle on icy roads with bad eyesight

Yikes

May 27, 2020 -- 3:21PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

Would you let them starve insider traitorA price worth paying. Eh?

Starve no. But why not just put them on means tested benefits the same as everyone else has to in 'normal times'?

Paying millionaires £2500 a month for doing nothing is adding up and we will all pay for it.

so the genius makes the political decision in 75 years and you think he,s an idiot,but you support him

May 27, 2020 -- 3:23PM, 1st time poster wrote:

so the genius makes the political decision in 75 years and you think he,s an idiot,but you support him

??

You don't arf spout some shiote insider traitor

Are you related to Carol Malone per chance?

my teacher neighbour isn't on furlough  but a paid  home worker .... good job she has landed  too by the looks of it ....barbeques ,sunbathing and  gardening most afternoons

May 27, 2020 -- 3:24PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

You don't arf spout some shiote insider traitorAre you related to Carol Malone per chance?

What have I written here you disagree with?

My teacher mate has spent time doing reports, home schooling by video for
30 kids, and one day a week in school looking after key workers kids.

They are doing 60 hour weeks which is indeed a holiday compared to usual 80 hours

biggest decision he,ll ever make,as you say he,s bankrupted the country,but you ,ll support .but think he,s an idiot for doing it,so why would you have any confidence in him getting anything else right,

like was pointed out a million times during the GE,its alright mobilising the lemmings to go after the establishment,but when your the establishment, who do the lemmings go for then

What have I written here you disagree with?





Read my replies to see.

The ones you have selectively ignored will point you in right direction

May 27, 2020 -- 3:14PM, 1st time poster wrote:

I no the right wing are getting their knickers in a twist but its getting hard to keep up,inside trade on a zillion threads moaning about a witch hunt for cummings,yet here,s a thread complaining about a policy LOCKDOWN, that cummings in his rose garden statement said he was the one pushing for it,,do you want him to go or stay,is he an indiot or a genius ,is this policy the work of a genius or an idiotwhen you get yourself straightened out let us noyou,ll have to get yourself one  of them banners,cummings must stay on one sidecummings must go on the othera bit lioke 2 letter,s doris

Its all a distraction attempt to get us away from the virus itself

CNN seem more interested in racism today again, there's a killer virus on the loose and we should care about some black spot walking towards a load of white spots on a picture

I don't think there will be a 2nd wave either, they've been caught out and no one abided to the lockdown rules anyway, they wont bother with a 2nd wave this thing will fade away as we head through summer

Don't worry, luckily Brexit saved us joining in on a €750bn debt bonanza

Brexit and racism again

The joy

thread title should be cost of lockdown per death caused imo

I hope your right sont,and the right will have to take the blame for wrecking the country,as ive posted a thousand times since the GE,LEFT WING POLICIES ON STERIODS AND IF IT ALL GOES BELLY UP THE RIGHT GET THE BLAME,LEFTIES UTOPIA ,
and a fooook up brexit to come ,
russia report
covid enquiry

wheres the sunny uplands for the right

Still got Windrush and Grenfell to get past too

May 27, 2020 -- 3:18PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

May 27, 2020 --  1:05PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:How much should saving a life be worth iyo?depends how many more years the person is expected to live for.

Ok, say you're Nostradamus and have just predicted next year's pandemic so you've got a nose for this. How much is a 70-year old's life worth?

Similarly (cos we're already half way there) do we deny cancer treatment to the same 70 year old on the basis of cost?

Just a rough figure. £100k? £500k?

May 27, 2020 -- 3:47PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

May 27, 2020 --  2:18PM, InsiderTrader wrote:May 27, 2020 --  1:05PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:How much should saving a life be worth iyo?depends how many more years the person is expected to live for.Ok, say you're Nostradamus and have just predicted next year's pandemic so you've got a nose for this. How much is a 70-year old's life worth?Similarly (cos we're already half way there) do we deny cancer treatment to the same 70 year old on the basis of cost?

Do we deny spending £3m on a walking bridge if 1 person a year are killed on a road? Probably. If 2 people are killed a year probably not.

Do we have a speed limit of 10mph because hundred die in car accidents each year? No because the cost to the economy is not worth it.

These types of choices are made every day.

Love the idea too of just putting everyone on benefits. Despite his fantastical idea that the govt could correctly means test the millions involved in the time allowed, he misses the whole point of the furlough scheme.

It's not an act of socialist generosity. It's a necessary action  to stop people spreading the virus but also ensure they don't suddenly default on their bills and bring the whole country crashing to a halt.

May 27, 2020 -- 3:53PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:

Love the idea too of just putting everyone on benefits. Despite his fantastical idea that the govt could correctly means test the millions involved in the time allowed, he misses the whole point of the furlough scheme.It's not an act of socialist generosity. It's a necessary action  to stop people spreading the virus but also ensure they don't suddenly default on their bills and bring the whole country crashing to a halt.

Most other countries have not been so generous.

May 27, 2020 -- 3:52PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

May 27, 2020 --  2:47PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:May 27, 2020 --  2:18PM, InsiderTrader wrote:May 27, 2020 --  1:05PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:How much should saving a life be worth iyo?depends how many more years the person is expected to live for.Ok, say you're Nostradamus and have just predicted next year's pandemic so you've got a nose for this. How much is a 70-year old's life worth?Similarly (cos we're already half way there) do we deny cancer treatment to the same 70 year old on the basis of cost?Do we deny spending £3m on a walking bridge if 1 person a year are killed on a road? Probably. If 2 people are killed a year probably not.Do we have a speed limit of 10mph because hundred die in car accidents each year? No because the cost to the economy is not worth it.These types of choices are made every day.

And that cost is based on risk of others also dying. When you believe the cost of doing nothing can be measured in the hundreds of thousands of corpses then you need to spend. By spending, you therefore reduce the number of future deaths. That one woman may have been the first of 20 if nothing had been done.

So is the cost per capita best judged at numbers dead, or numbers estimated to have died if zero spent?

May 27, 2020 -- 3:54PM, InsiderTrader wrote:

May 27, 2020 --  2:53PM, PorcupineorPineapple wrote:Love the idea too of just putting everyone on benefits. Despite his fantastical idea that the govt could correctly means test the millions involved in the time allowed, he misses the whole point of the furlough scheme.It's not an act of socialist generosity. It's a necessary action  to stop people spreading the virus but also ensure they don't suddenly default on their bills and bring the whole country crashing to a halt.Most other countries have not been so generous.

Most other countries locked down quicker and harder and are getting back to normal in a shorter time. Most don't have a govt giving mixed messages and letting their own pals flout the rules brazenly.

There are many, many reasons we have handled this crisis appallingly. The furlough scheme is near the very bottom of the list.

Love will save the day

Has anyone looked into the cost of days off and holidays?  I reckon they cost 800,000,000,000 EVERY YEAR!

Own goal thread

it's a load of nonsense ..if a car isn't made and someone wants a car  they will buy the car in August or whenever ,and if loads of people want cars then they can step up productions ...things are made well in advance  ...tourist industry has taken a hit granted  ...but then people coming here from abroad will come here again  at a later date   - simples

Cost of few bombs dropped on Syrai...............Seems the Government always finds the money for a Regime change attempt

Weve only lost a few months. If we work weekends and longer days we can make it back.

from the lefts new hero doris
no tax rises
no ni rises
no vat rise
triple lock pension stays

spend,dpend,spend,happy days

May 27, 2020 -- 7:28PM, Coachbuster wrote:

it's a load of nonsense ..if a car isn't made and someone wants a car

*bangs head against wall*

Sort that facking bug out will you Betfair

IT

Your cost figure seems incorrect...

If UK "had just done social distancing " there would have been a significant cost anyway. No flights? No sport? Pubs? Restaurants? Shops? Transport? Hotels? Weddings? Holiday? Euro2020?
The U.K.would have still had a large bill although probably significantly less than a 3 month "lockdown "

Add to that the NHS would have been able to treat people if 5 times as many people needed help. And of course even with after timing is still guesswork as to how many would have died if we did very less social distancing.

If the UK public could behave then could of been less strict. Can you believe there are still the shiny gas mob claiming Covid19 isn't real or downplaying the deadly virus to a normal winter flu season. They have let themselves down & let their country down. Still they have a nice new shiny hat ideal headwear for destroying UK telecommunications hardware.

May 27, 2020 -- 8:20PM, Mexico wrote:

ITYour cost figure seems incorrect...If UK "had just done social distancing " there would have been a significant cost anyway. No flights? No sport? Pubs? Restaurants? Shops? Transport? Hotels? Weddings? Holiday? Euro2020? The U.K.would have still had a large bill although probably significantly less than a 3 month "lockdown "Add to that the NHS would have been able to treat people if 5 times as many people needed help. And of course even with after timing is still guesswork as to how many would have died if we did very less social distancing. If the UK public could behave then could of been less strict. Can you believe there are still the shiny gas mob claiming Covid19 isn't real or downplaying the deadly virus to a normal winter flu season. They have let themselves down & let their country down. Still they have a nice new shiny hat ideal headwear for destroying UK telecommunications hardware.

Yes there would still have been a cost.

Sweden GDP will fall by 7% this year. UK will fall by 15%.

As for hospitals being 5 times more busy:
1. That would not have happened... Sweden had less people in hospital than us per million.
2. Most hospitals and NHS units have been empty the last few months and could have coped with many more patients.
3. Billions wasted on Nightingale hospitals that are not fit for purpose as most patients have issues other than Covid so need a proper hospital.

The only thing to come out of this how much power the state now has over the feeble minded

IT

It is not clear if you have taken into account the cost I.e. Sweden's 7% when calculating your 300bn cost & if any of that cost is just delayed rather than lost forever.

You can't honestly be comparing Sweden with UK.
How does population density compare? London is a financial asset to UK in normal times. People travel from all over the planet to visit/do business.

With a killer virus around people crammed onto a tube & hundreds of flights arriving at Heathrow is hardly an asset.

Also I don't believe the UK public could behave. There would be birthday parties, family BBQ ,200 people at a funeral etc.

Basically your figures for cost & lives saved are both suspect.

I'm happy for country to open up if can keep number of Covid infections/deaths decreasing every week. We aren't going to get to zero cases , don't think it is unrealistic to expect number of deaths to be fewer than 50 a day. Unfortunately I have pretty much given up being able to go to a football match in 2020.

It should be your choice Mexico.. not the states

Not sure anybody should have the choice to recklessly put people's health & lives at risk.
In same way speeding, drunk driving, spreading HIV etc.

Even with the U.K. "Lockdown " been about 50k dead. Government hardly getting a gold star. Once they lost control of testing only weapon left was social distancing.
What did UK gain by not closing down 10 days earlier- was Liverpool V Madrid a good idea,

Im not sure I understand what Mexico means by "behave". He may just do whatever he is told by the likes of Johnson and Hancock but some of us can think for ourselves.

May 27, 2020 -- 10:26PM, Mexico wrote:

Not sure anybody should have the choice to recklessly put people's health & lives at risk.In same way speeding, drunk driving, spreading HIV etc.Even with the U.K. "Lockdown " been about 50k dead. Government hardly getting a gold star. Once they lost control of testing only weapon left was social distancing. What did UK gain by not closing down 10 days earlier- was Liverpool V Madrid a good idea,

The reason for the 50k dead you put down to the virus is because we have not protected the vulnerable groups well enough or early enough.

Lockdown makes no difference to that once the virus is widespread in the community as the New York study proved that showed 66%  of new patients were complying with lockdown and were not key workers etc.

We must not assume that because mistakes were made with the vulnerable that lockdown saved one life. They is no evidence it did. None whatsoever.

so can cummings

.

Dow many under age of 40 have died?

Look it up - the answer is staggering......

How much would we have saved if we hadn't gone into lockdown when the rest of the world did?  A fraction of what we would have saved had the world carried on as normal.  It would have cost us a fortune anyway. 

Personally, I think the world should've carried on like Belarus, but the world didn't.  The public wouldn't have accepted it.  So we were screwed whatever.  A few hundred thousand to give someone with dementia an extra 6 months seems a bit excessive imho.

hasn't cost the UK anything financially in the grand ponzi scheme of things  ,  lives have been lost though

The Lancet said there were 500,000 extra deaths from Cancer globally from the 2008 recession, so mebbe 5 million extra deaths globally from this just from cancer, and they won't be care homers with months left to live anyway.  That's just cancer. 

Jeff Bezos is worth $145,000,000,000 allegedly.  Mebbe we should all stop buying from Amazon?

If we forged Jeff's will so he gave everything to the UK Treasury, and bumped him off, wecould reduce that debt by 40% at a stroke.

Is that extra cancer deaths because they chose austerity that made
finances worse?

The financial crisis didn't cause cancer

The financial crisis caused less investment in research, smaller budgets for the procurement of drugs, less investment for the training of doctors and nurses, smaller budgets for screening and diagnosis.  It's not rocket science.  And it's global so feck all to do with politics in the UK

It's great that people now recognise austerity kills

Let's hope we don't get another tory government killing more brits via austerity.

"Nice will not approve drugs that cost more than its threshold of £20,000 to £30,000 per year of quality life, except for an end-of-life treatment – as this drug is – in which case the threshold rises to £50,000. But Nice believes nivolumab would cost between £66,000 to £75,000 per year of quality life."

Austerity is a choice

Choose life

now what are we all to do ? when money's got a hold on you

Using NICE (Natiaonal Institute for Health and Care) criteria, 1 year of life is worth £25k of expenditure.  So at a cost of £300bn for 200,000 lives saved, that equates to 60 years per life.  From the data on COVID-19 that is nearer 10 years on average.  So I'd agree with the OP's sentiments.  6 times over budget, or rather 6 times as much life could be saved by not locking down globally.

If they didn't pay furlough and saved billions there would
be lots more deaths of poor people for tories to celebrate

Accounts are evil. The Germans could not afford the cost of a bullet to kill undesirables.  So they gassed people.
America will spend trillions in wars and say they cannot afford healthcare. While we Europeans can afford it. The USA tries to erode our health systems. With drugs bring hiked up in price. Trying to monetize a life. I avoid doctors. One surgeon wanted to take out my gall bladder five yrs ago. It's fine. I had one bad day of pain. It led to me spending two days in hospital.  They pounce and see what they want to see sometimes. A cancer guy sees cancer. A heart guy sees irregular brats. I avoid them.

May 27, 2020 -- 2:13PM, ----you-have-to-laugh--- wrote:

Had we locked down 2 weeks earlier costs would be reduced by earlier reopeningand far swifter recovery ( see Greece)We would have saved another 20,000 lives too. If we reopen too quickly now we will strangle the recovery beforeIt beginsTHIS IS ABOUT THE 30TH SILLY PROPAGANDA THREAD YOU HAVE STARTEDYOU HAVE ZERO EMPATHY FOR BRITISH PEOPLE

This is all true!

Why shouldn’t we question the cost of saving a life, isn’t that normal practice at the NHS.

Bristol boy forced to move to Holland after NHS refuses to pay for life-saving drug
The American drugs company want more money than the NHS is willing to pay

A boy from Bristol with a rare genetic disorder that is slowly killing him has had to move to the Netherlands this week so he can get access to a drug that could prolong his life.

Max Sewart and his dad Simon travelled on Tuesday to set up home in Rotterdam, where Max can be treated for a rare type of Batten Disease, leaving mum Ivana and younger brother Felix back in Britain.

The eight-year-old has become the victim of a stand-off between NHS drugs chiefs and the manufacturer of medication that can slow down the onset of Batten Disease, an extremely rare group of fatal, inherited disorders of the nervous system.

NHS bosses in England are refusing to pay the asking price for the drug called cerliponase alfa, marketed as Brinuera, even though it is available in 20 other countries including Wales.

It can reportedly slow down the progression of Batten disease and even stabilise it in cases.

It's an absurd situation. It's bad enough with the diagnosis, but to have to do this nonsense too,” said Mr Sewart.

“I feel so badly let down by the NHS - it's not what the service is about.

"It's about looking after your society. Their negotiators are not humane people.

The Sewarts’ MP, Jacob Rees Mogg, has backed their campaign, and raised their case - and those of other children - in the House of Commons several times.

Last week, he did so again, demanding answers from the NHS and health ministers.

“The terrible thing is that in the month that has passed since I first raised this matter in the House, Max’s condition will have slightly deteriorated, and in every month that goes on while we are debating this, not just Max but all the children with this condition will go downhill. That is what happens with this disease,” he told MPs last week.

“Although I accept, of course, that there is a need to look at costs, when we are talking about eight-year-old children, we are not talking about a cost for people who only have weeks or months to live, but about a child who could have years of a high quality of life ahead of him.

That must be where most of us as taxpayers think it is right to spend money and where we think that the moral case for spending money is extraordinarily strong,” he added.

At the weekend, Mr Rees Mogg was one of hundreds who attended the village fete in East Harptree, which was this year held as a fundraiser for Max.

READ MORE
Funding stops for prescriptions to Slimming World and Weight Watchers
Organised jointly between the school and the church, a record £5,000 was raised towards the public appeal, to help the family.

Max and Felix's headteacher at the village primary school, Jane Bailey, said she was proud of the response from the village.

The row over cost

An NHS England spokeswoman said: “The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) have not recommended this drug, since British taxpayers simply cannot offer a blank cheque to this particular American pharmaceutical company BioMarin, who have sadly so far shown a complete lack of willingness to price their products fairly, as independently assessed by NICE."

If we see a 2nd wave lockdown detractors will own that 2nd wave.

yeh but whats his views on Brexit

So suddenly we're not so arsed about the science any more?

You can't look at it like the OP says, because with global trade and airline travel paralysed, we'd have lost a fortune anyway.  Hospitals would've been overrun and the public would have been up in arms and caused a massive furore, forcing lockdown at even greater cost.

But hypothetically, if people could stomach it, and the world had carried on virtually as normal, we'd have got a much better long term result imho.

Poorer countries like Mexico Brazil Iran Belarus and Afghanistan etc are doing the right thing for them, even though their case and fatality figures are utter BS

Yeah, the tory kill the poor approach

That's been trialled since the 70s.

Yeah I can see opposite Venezualan approach has been a huge success.  Live it up for 5-10 years with your head in the sand, and pay for it massively forever after.  There's going to be far more poor because of lockdown, which kind of illustrates my point and yours, that increased poverty increases deaths, and of course quality of life.

Plenty of refugees risking their lives to be poor in this country

Jeff Bezos is worth $145,000,000,000 yet everyone shops at Amazon ffs

that's what makes me shake my head.  We voted for BREXIT out of apparent national pride, yet here we all, buying goods from a foreign retailer and lining Jeff's pockets

Amazon has nothing to do with Brexit obviously. Amazon is so successful due to an amazing business model, and it delivers (pardon the pun). Obviously there's huge discussion on how the global internet giants are fairly taxed. And the working conditions of those who manufacture many of those products.

Amazon is very successful, but it is taking over the UK retail sector.  That isn't good for the UK.  There's nowhere near enough emphasis in this country on buying from British retailers.  If we do love our independence so much, we should be buying from British retailers as there are no shortage of retailers.  I don't have an issue with buying goods made overseas, because you can't get them otherwise.

The bigger Amazon gets, the bigger the advantage it has, as it has the buying power to source goods more cheaply

Cost of lockdown..... Brexit.... Amazon


Tangents, yet connected by failure of brain.

May 30, 2020 -- 12:33PM, CLYDEBANK29 wrote:

Amazon is very successful, but it is taking over the UK retail sector.  That isn't good for the UK.  There's nowhere near enough emphasis in this country on buying from British retailers.  If we do love our independence so much, we should be buying from British retailers as there are no shortage of retailers.  I don't have an issue with buying goods made overseas, because you can't get them otherwise.The bigger Amazon gets, the bigger the advantage it has, as it has the buying power to source goods more cheaply

Brexit does allow for much more autonomy of economic policy, and state aid. So we could easily incentivise businesses to manufacture in the UK. Economic growth is the best long term route out of this.

It's always at the top of Google.  Get people in the habit of scrolling down further.  They may find the products cheaper too.

Maybe the government should introduce a system, whereby if you are searching for a product in the UK, UK retailers get a higher preference

Maybe the tax dodging tories could bring in a tax on amazon to stop
them paying their UK taxes at lower rate elsewhere.

Tough as they seem hell bent on bringing in more tax dodges not less

Alphabet itself is coining in cash from that very same search. If you're using Google is that not similar to using Amazon? It's up to the competition to get better, not drag the market leader down to the level of others.

There are no UK search engine's AFAIK.  Loads of alternatives to Amazon though.  Amazon has the equivalent of monopoly powers.  There are laws against that as it's not in the public's interest, because it stifles competition.

If you were choosing search engines based on principle, not many would have Google as first choice.

People know Amazon is a US company.  It's a hard fact.

Whether Google is less ethical than other search engines is an opinion, not a hard fact, and is based on incomplete information.

If there was a viable UK alternative to Google I'd definitely use it though

Internet for people, not profit — Mozilla (UK)www.mozilla.org › en-GB
Mozilla is the not-for-profit behind the lightning fast Firefox browser. We put people over profit to give everyone more power online.

Firefox is my browser of choice

How do you know Amazon is 'always' at the top of Google if you don't use Google

Anyway, Amazon isn't growing sales exponentially from just being at the top of searches. It's simply the best at what it does, right now anyway. Sure it's got the financial clout to do what it likes but that's because it's been great at what it does and started from zero. I'm sure you've seen this before but it's worth revisiting.

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GltlJO56S1g

I feel like this model will end the large supermarket too.

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY0nNPT75xY

cost of lockdown here please.

Duckduckgo if you dont want to use google.

I said I use Firefox.  I use Google on Firefox

Duckduckgo is American