Guardian/Mirror why let the cat out of the bag?

Pa you have enough Problems with Veruker Running the Show over there mate I would worry about that

Tbh

getting paid to watch the biggest political shoite show in 70 years from the comfort of their settee

when did chemical ali get the job as downing street spokesmen,

No young men rushing over there in rubber dinghies so he is doing alright Casemoney!

Any head of goverment doing that kinda carry on with thinking lockdowns don't apply to them would be shame and would be going towards the door without being asked.



Something like nearly 900 cases at meat processing plants which is an odd one there, think it says volumes re social distancing in factories,where do you go from there?

""No young men rushing over there in rubber dinghies""

Veruker Must be gutted

When does the Observer come of the printing press?

off...ffs

Why did they wait until the commons was off for 2 weeks, before a weekend?, break it on a Tuesday night before PMQ's ffs

Pretty obvious isn't it, we've gone through the checklist, ppe, bame, exit plan, elderly, now deaths are falling and a gap between now and 40K official corona positive deaths so something needed to fill the gap. If they did have the information for weeks it must have been filed in the straw clutching if we've rinsed everything else folder.

Jaysus, that's some list Cider.

Indeed, replicated across europe

Only we have more deaths than all of them..and Cummings of course in a country run by a part time clown.

Just so happens to contain London, the third biggest city in europe, a world travel hub with the most amount of international travel. And we can forget about russia in regard to official statistics.

As I've mentioned many times, Germany is the only comparable outlier, but they had a native testing industry in place by coincidence so it's readily explained. We won't allow rational thought when it comes to Dom Cummings though

ergh hang on ,cummings despises rational thought blames the countries present problems on rational thought,wants to clear westminiter of rational thought,super brains,weirdo,s is the way forward ,erven if they couldnt run a pish up in a brewery

May 23, 2020 -- 5:45PM, Cider wrote:

Just so happens to contain London, the third biggest city in europe, a world travel hub with the most amount of international travel. And we can forget about russia in regard to official statistics.

Yes, and we allowed planes to come in daily from places like China, Iran, Spain, Italy....

The irony, long forgotten now, the left wing media were demanding repatriation of people in other countries and cruise ships. Constant skype chats with potential key workers and others being 'abandoned' by the gvnt. Conveniently forgotten by the left nowadays. Do you have any concept of what the effect of shutting any travel to the UK would have been. Any at all?

but they have to quarantine when they arrive! must be getting the star trek transporter to their destinations though to avoid contamination on the way

We were victims of our own success in regard to international business, travel and diversity. How many other countries are connected to another country by a tunnel ffs. I wrote this before, we were too late in banning travel out of the UK. But the effective of this pandemic to us was inevitable once it took hold worldwide.

May 23, 2020 -- 5:59PM, Cider wrote:

The irony, long forgotten now, the left wing media were demanding repatriation of people in other countries and cruise ships. Constant skype chats with potential key workers and others being 'abandoned' by the gvnt. Conveniently forgotten by the left nowadays. Do you have any concept of what the effect of shutting any travel to the UK would have been. Any at all?

Yes, less deaths here.

Exactly what date are you proposing up to 3 million UK national should have been abandoned?

May 23, 2020 -- 5:49PM, Cider wrote:

As I've mentioned many times, Germany is the only comparable outlier, but they had a native testing industry in place by coincidence so it's readily explained. We won't allow rational thought when it comes to Dom Cummings though

Germany deaths 8,354. UK deaths 36,675.

May 23, 2020 -- 5:49PM, Cider wrote:

As I've mentioned many times, Germany is the only comparable outlier, but they had a native testing industry in place by coincidence so it's readily explained. We won't allow rational thought when it comes to Dom Cummings though

.

Cider in my opinion London is by far the largest city in Europe (in population terms). Both Moscow and Istanbul which are bigger are in countries generally accepted to be in Asia.

After London comes Berlin but it is much smaller.

Yes they can't be compared really posy. London is extremely similar to New York, can't think of too many others like them. Not surprising they've been hit similarly hard.

We are an island. That's as good a start as anywhere for our government to protect it's people. They failed badly.

What date are you proposing we should have closed all means of travelling into the UK? Even with the benefit of hindsight?

We haven't closed travel.

You're proposing that should have been the course of action, right? If so, on what date?

1st February.

There were 2 cases in the UK on that date

Obviously ridiculous and no PM is going to ruin the economy at that point, but let's assume they could see into the future and did, are you counting any UK nationals cast adrift abroad at the time that go on to die. What do you do about them?

What date would you prefer?

I'm demonstrating the ridiculousness of your suggestion/argument. It could not have been done at any time. The countries that initiated 'lockdown' before us had less to lose, simple as that.

When there was the outbreak in northern Italy is the date for me. That's when the situation in Europe became really serious. It was around half term so we basically should have looked at repatriating any holiday makers but also either blocking or testing everyone else looking to come. Instead, months later we still have flights arriving from around the world and we still can't be arsed checking if the passengers are infected or not.

There was someone on Radio 4 earlier who explained that on her recent visit to Dubai she was tested and had the results back within hours. Not sure why we can't do that rather than shutting down now.

But back then, if the tests weren't available, the only way to protect ourselves was to close inward migration. Close down early and hard and you could have cut weeks off the length of this lockdown. They dithered, thought they were smarter than everyone else dealing with it and wasted precious weeks before finally accepting the inevitable. The blood of tens of thousands of people, as well as the thousands of businesses and millions of jobs inevitably lost is on their hands for their inaction during those weeks.

May 23, 2020 -- 6:34PM, Cider wrote:

I'm demonstrating the ridiculousness of your suggestion/argument. It could not have been done at any time. The countries that initiated 'lockdown' before us had less to lose, simple as that.

https://community.betfair.com/chit_chat/go/thread/view/94038/31647601/sunday-times-and-incompetent-doris#flvWelcomeHeader

Try some different dates, plenty to choose from.

Well Cheltenham went ahead ending 13 Mar 2020, of course there was a lot of stories going around but it was still pretty normal day to day here. And Irish people were still free to travel for example. To suggest that a PM is going to shut down the 6/7th biggest economy in the world at that point is frankly ridiculous. So we're talking what, a week? A negligible difference to deaths may be but the consequences of lockdown are horrendous as we are experiencing, so they had to be 100% certain that the consequences of lockdown were a price worth paying.

We are a small island on the other side of the world from where the virus originated. We have the second highest deaths of anywhere in the world.

The blood of tens of thousands of people 

is of course at the hands of the ccp

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8339497/Coronavirus-UK-deaths-limited-11-000-lockdown-started-sooner.html


There's actually been some research on this. Shutting down just one week earlier would have saved 11,000 lives. Hardly negligible.

Fact is if Johnson hadn't been asleep at the wheel at the start of this year our death numbers could have been similar to Germany's and we could be much, much further down the road to re-opening all sectors of the economy. But we had a blithering idiot too concerned with brexit, not arsed about COBRA meetings, and insisting business carry on as usual.


We knew this was coming. It was one of the main items on the news since the start of the year and somehow we still ended up being unprepared for it. Just utter negligence.

Cider,"well Cheltenham finished 13th of March"

On the 14th of March i started a thread "should Boris be arrested",not taken likely,i knew it was going to be a sheetshow which unfortunately it was.

I hate to break it to you but you can get a statistical model to come up with any result you want, especially one that gets you in the news. He's claiming deaths would only have been 11K so I'm unsure you've given it your utmost attention

Cider • May 23, 2020 6:48 PM BST
Well Cheltenham went ahead ending 13 Mar 2020, of course there was a lot of stories going around but it was still pretty normal day to day here.

Stories? Do you mean facts? And unfortunately it was still pretty normal here when it shouldn't have been. We had a dumb, slow to react government not a proactive one; and a piss poor one at that.

Germany have 8k deaths. We have 36K. That is reality, no model required.

Very disingenious Cider,it was all herd immunity route,the torys wanted it then,shag the consequences until it got pointed out it could be more.

That is this tory goverment legacy to the UK,that and a self serving brexit.

May 23, 2020 -- 6:58PM, lapsy pa wrote:

Cider,"well Cheltenham finished 13th of March"On the 14th of March i started a thread "should Boris be arrested",not taken likely,i knew it was going to be a sheetshow which unfortunately it was.

It's not a difficult concept to grasp. Going into lockdown costs thousands of lives and millions of livelihoods. There's no repercussions of suggesting it on a forum, being the actual PM is a little different.

You have missed out the word "not" before the word "going".

Fair enough, a bloke on a betting forum up against experienced scientific modellers. I'll go with your undoubted virology expertise and agree that the number dead would indeed only have been negligbly higher

Ha ha. So going into lockdown costs thousands of lives. Presumably not going into lockdown saves thousands of lives then. Twisted logic.

you people are living in a fantasy land. I'm definitely being trolled here

You are not being trolled it's just that your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny.

Very similar to the government's futile attempt to explain what and why they've done things.

I'm a qualified statistician and data modeler funnily enough, I wouldn't claim to be an expert in virology, though I don't believe Dagpunar is either.

I'm still waiting for an explanation of how lockdown costs thousands of lives.

May 23, 2020 -- 7:10PM, Cider wrote:

I'm a qualified statistician and data modeler funnily enough, I wouldn't claim to be an expert in virology, though I don't believe Dagpunar is either.

Means fack all.

You are a Tory apologist Cider,they made a complete hames of it,the lot should be run out of the country for the good of the people who they have grossly misserved.

That was in response to PP.

There's lots of evidence that mortality is correlated to gdp.

.https://blog.euromonitor.com/economic-growth-and-life-expectancy-do-wealthier-countries-live-longer/

Just a realist unfortunately lapsy pa.

Had to look up what a "complete hames" meant .

Cider I was really hoping you were going to post a long reply as to why lockdown costs thousands of lives. I will be patient.

If you were a realist you would question why Boris's family have virtually disowned him and why Cummings is in the position he is for starters.

Irish death rate is 325 per million, England is 498. Hardly a big difference considering they have nothing like London or the levels on international travel.

Cider was that a random reply or an answer to someone's question?

I looked up hames too, even I didn't know what that meant, I'm assuming lapsy pa thinks Ireland's corona record is something to be proud of.

"even I" tw@t.

I'm Irish (half)

But swear away

Maybe the true death rate is say 800+? enough out there to say the figure are massaged,i tend to believe that.

I agree with Christ Whitty, we need to wait to have excess death numbers for the year.

Nothing to be proud of,but transparent, the briefings are factual, the welfare of their citizens takes precedence over the economy, fair fecks

I'm still awaiting this revelation about lockdown costing thousands of deaths. Take your time I'm sure you are working on it.

Apology accepted I posted a link for you. The close inverse correlation between gdp and death rates in developed countries is widely accepted.

The difference is that the result of a long term hit to the economy plays out in years rather than weeks.

Is that the answer to why lockdown costs thousands of lives? I like to be clear on these things.

Yes. It's pretty straight foward. A strong economy pays for healthcare and public services. A weak economy leads to less resources.

That's bolloxology Cider,gross domestic product and death rates,really? the poorer countries cannot test as they haven't got them,just bury them, however the term "airbrushed" has been used in the UK too.

The extreme left can only unfortunately see as far as the end of their nose. So if anyone references the economy they can only think of fat cat bonuses and their lavish lifestyles.

Cider
As you are a qualified statistician and data modeler (presumably a half-American because of the spelling - you are also half Irish) you are obviously aware of the need to state yours findings clearway and unambiguously.

Not on the chit chat section of a betting forum

the right /brexiteers like to use the ARE YOU SAYING THEIR THICK LINE , surrounding leave voters

but it might pain the brexiteers to hear it but doris/cummings really do believe your ignorant,thick,gullable,lemmings

the lockdown happened when it did because government thought  if broughtt in earlier public would get bored and ignore it, 8 weeks later and their begging people to go back to work,school, and the only people ignoring it are those who devised it
the 2 metre rule was brought in purely because doris/cummings didn't believe the public understood how far a metre actually was, so they thought if they made it 2.the public would at least be 1 metre apart,it was as scientific as that,
its the right making simple slogans ,because its the right who think anyone but themselves are thicko,s,how many times to you hear tory,s talking about common sense all day today,grenfell,etc,

How many people were claiming to confused by 'stay alert'

Or whether sunbathing counted as exercise

Once again Cider you have proved incapable of a reasoned debate. Just bluff and bluster as per Doris. You can't defend your arguments. I'll leave you to waffle on.

This is a debate? Everyone corresponding with me here has already made their mind up. They hate the tories. I already posted how close Ireland's death rate is to England for example so the 'debate' turns to England supposedly massaging the figures. That's not a debate is it.

The UK's "true" death rate is calculated at 63K+ by Chris Giles hence the reason why imo it is v likely well removed from Irelands.

You don't want Tory criticism, you don't want to know why DC has a hold over the Tory party, you should be more patriotic.

May 23, 2020 -- 7:54PM, Cider wrote:

This is a debate? Everyone corresponding with me here has already made their mind up. They hate the tories. I already posted how close Ireland's death rate is to England for example so the 'debate' turns to England supposedly massaging the figures. That's not a debate is it.

Germany have 8k deaths. UK have 36K deaths. Not sure about "massaging".

Latest Opinium poll for The Observer shows Starmer overtakes Johnson in approval ratings for the first time. 47% approve of how he has handled Covid-19 crisis while 17% disapprove and 35% have no view. Johnson 45% approve 39 disapprove. So net approval, Starmer +30, Johnson +6.

Real figures.

You can read Mr Combustibles Sunday Times thread,your guff re 13th of April is a bit "exposed".

Your attempt at deflection was just that,an attempt.

@ Cider

What part has Starmer played in the covid 19 crisis ?

May 23, 2020 -- 9:37PM, Ibrahima Sonko wrote:

What part has Starmer played in the covid 19 crisis ?

Go back to sleep.

Answer the question please ?

under pressure from starmer at PMQs  bozo  promised to have test and trace up and running by 1 june and to be doing 200,000 tests a day by the end of may.

got nhs/care workers citizenship,surcharge removed, and bereavement money, not bad in 2 pmq,s

Fair enough, but not really covid is it.

pmsl, you have done yourself up like a kipper, all those things are covid related.

Really ? you cannot be that biased to think wages/fees or promises stop a virus.

You are either stupid or ignorant,  What part has Starmer played in the covid 19 crisis, how to deal with the crisis or suggestions ?

Zero, stands there scripted.

If medical science ever advances to enable brain transplants, please god, don't let sonko be a donor.

Is that all you got ?

Telling me to go away or get a libtard brain, you really dont like an open discussion or people that challenge your posts and lying about voting tory.

sonko, unlike you, i am neither stupid nor ignorant. i fear you have spent so much of your time on websites that are designed to keep you uninformed you have absolutely no idea what truth looks like.

i am not biased, there is very little chance that i will ever vote for labour at a general election. i think he has a long way to go to reconnect labour to their core voters.

you asked for what contribution starmer had made, two posters listed areas where he helped move government policy. the ones i mentioned bozo came up with in PMQs when he was under pressure  from starmer and they are covid related.


unsurprisingly  you have just been reduced to abusing posters who have different views to you.