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16 May 20
11:19
Joined:
Date Joined:
25 Aug 05
EU and UK negotiators agreed on one thing on Friday - they'd made precious little progress in trade talks so far when it comes to the key sticking points between the two sides.
They include fish, competition rules, even the form the trade deal should take (one big agreement, as Brussels demands, or the UK preference for a number of mini deals alongside a basic free trade agreement).
Each side secretly, or not so secretly, views the other as misguided ideologues: The EU caricature, rigid with quasi-religious belief in the "integrity of the single market." The UK government stereotype, described off the record in EU circles, as unquestioning or unthinking believers in "national sovereignty over everything".
Both sides called on the other on Friday to get real and change their approach. Otherwise, borrowing the words of the EU's chief negotiator, they'd remain determined but no longer hopeful a deal could be struck.
Frankly, this rhetoric ricocheting right now between London and Brussels is not exactly surprising. Clashes are quite common in high-level negotiations after each side makes its position clear and sticking points become screamingly obvious.
But in normal trade talks, weeks and months then follow in which red lines can be watered down over cups of coffee, or negotiators taking a stroll round the block to chew over a problem.
A mixture of Covid-19 and Boris Johnson's insistence that the transition period not be extended, rob EU and UK negotiators of that luxury. The virus necessitates screen-to-screen, rather than face-to-face talks. The UK government's demand that negotiations be finished by the end of the year means time is uncomfortably tight.
Some progress is being made, of course - on basic free trade issues, on energy, on transport. And both sides are showing a bit of leg.
The EU admits it has taken a maximalist approach on fishing, suggesting wiggle room there. The UK says it will abandon its goal of having 100% tariff and quota free access to the single market, if that will help calm EU fears about unfair competition. (The EU argues this too is unrealistic, considering the little time left to argue tariffs lines individually, but it's an indication from the UK that it is open to discussion.)
But the storm clouds overhanging EU-UK negotiations aren't fake news. By the end of next month, the two sides must formally announce whether or not talks will be extended.
Brussels expects the UK to say 'No'. That has been the oft-repeated message out of Downing Street. Expect then an announcement in Brussels and in London that they will begin stepping up no-deal preparations, as they head into an autumn of fraught negotiation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52686959
They include fish, competition rules, even the form the trade deal should take (one big agreement, as Brussels demands, or the UK preference for a number of mini deals alongside a basic free trade agreement).
Each side secretly, or not so secretly, views the other as misguided ideologues: The EU caricature, rigid with quasi-religious belief in the "integrity of the single market." The UK government stereotype, described off the record in EU circles, as unquestioning or unthinking believers in "national sovereignty over everything".
Both sides called on the other on Friday to get real and change their approach. Otherwise, borrowing the words of the EU's chief negotiator, they'd remain determined but no longer hopeful a deal could be struck.
Frankly, this rhetoric ricocheting right now between London and Brussels is not exactly surprising. Clashes are quite common in high-level negotiations after each side makes its position clear and sticking points become screamingly obvious.
But in normal trade talks, weeks and months then follow in which red lines can be watered down over cups of coffee, or negotiators taking a stroll round the block to chew over a problem.
A mixture of Covid-19 and Boris Johnson's insistence that the transition period not be extended, rob EU and UK negotiators of that luxury. The virus necessitates screen-to-screen, rather than face-to-face talks. The UK government's demand that negotiations be finished by the end of the year means time is uncomfortably tight.
Some progress is being made, of course - on basic free trade issues, on energy, on transport. And both sides are showing a bit of leg.
The EU admits it has taken a maximalist approach on fishing, suggesting wiggle room there. The UK says it will abandon its goal of having 100% tariff and quota free access to the single market, if that will help calm EU fears about unfair competition. (The EU argues this too is unrealistic, considering the little time left to argue tariffs lines individually, but it's an indication from the UK that it is open to discussion.)
But the storm clouds overhanging EU-UK negotiations aren't fake news. By the end of next month, the two sides must formally announce whether or not talks will be extended.
Brussels expects the UK to say 'No'. That has been the oft-repeated message out of Downing Street. Expect then an announcement in Brussels and in London that they will begin stepping up no-deal preparations, as they head into an autumn of fraught negotiation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52686959
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No deal is better than a bad deal, fook em, they need us more than we need them, thats why they made things so difficult for us.
Yep.
They reckon they can have the fish off a sovereign nation.
Shall we ask if our farmers can have access to pick all the grapes in French fields?
Very strange behavior by the EU taking a stance on fish given they want access to our markets to sell all their products tariff free.
They reckon they can have the fish off a sovereign nation.
Shall we ask if our farmers can have access to pick all the grapes in French fields?
Very strange behavior by the EU taking a stance on fish given they want access to our markets to sell all their products tariff free.
some thick kooont in brussels,probably worked out who are the uk fishermen going to sell their fish to if not us,,brexiteers will catch up eventually , just like this week catching up with their not over doris body ,border in the irish sea
There never ever was ever going to be a deal...crash out was always the aim.
at least this crisis has proved ,doris and the cabinet will be able to navigate Brexit with no problems
FFS it's all a pantomime for the sheeple...the governments paymasters will let it happen in name only !
Learn from the recent history. We'll talk a good game and then cave in near the death. It's what they do.
Sunak will need to print more money
Crash the pound, the swivel eyed loons will never notice and if they do you can blame it on corona
Simples
Crash the pound, the swivel eyed loons will never notice and if they do you can blame it on corona
Simples
NI,Scottish and Welsh mps writing that they want an extension due to covid,isn't that a prudent and rational thing to do?
Again going a different path to Westminster as they have with covid advice.
Again going a different path to Westminster as they have with covid advice.
If anyone cannot see the dire financial consequences of remaining in the EU then they are really a f**kin muppet !
Covid-19 or not just proceed with Brexit as before. The EU has been shown to be nationalistic and lacking solidarity. And. their inexperienced leadership from 3rd rate economies add salt to wound.
Good riddance the EU.
Good riddance the EU.
UK should apologize to Germany and come back to EU. There's no other way.
I'm not sure an apology would be good enough at this stage for all the duplicitous practices the UK have inflicted on the EU during this processs, maybe lose one country(EU) and gain a couple of smaller ones?
May 17, 2020 -- 1:21PM, impossible123 wrote:
Covid-19 or not just proceed with Brexit as before. The EU has been shown to be nationalistic and lacking solidarity. And. their inexperienced leadership from 3rd rate economies add salt to wound. Good riddance the EU.
hey hey hey hey now! Ursula is not from a 3rd rate economy!
We will cruise out of the despicable EUSSR at the end of the year.
They will fail, we will prosper.
End fkin of.
They will fail, we will prosper.
End fkin of.
That's right Burt, Boris said the economy was going to "bounce back"and a "V" shaped recovery was to be looked forward to.
Foreign companies own the rights to catch more than 130,000 tonnes of fish every year that are part of England's fishing quota, BBC research has revealed.
More than £160m worth of the English quota is in the hands of vessels owned by companies based in Iceland, Spain and the Netherlands, thanks to a practice known as "quota-hopping".
That amounts to 55% of the quota's annual value in 2019.
Taking back control of UK fishing waters was a key issue for many Brexit supporters.
But with fishing still an obstacle in the UK's trade talks with the European Union, the figures raise questions about what taking back control will actually mean.
Quotas are at the heart of heated debates about fishing on both sides of the English Channel.
Many countries use them to manage shared fish stocks. They determine how many fish of each species each country's fleets are allowed to catch.
The EU's Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) sets quotas among EU member states, and similar deals are negotiated with neighbouring countries
The UK government says becoming an independent coastal state after Brexit will give it the right to decide "who fishes in our waters and on what terms".
But, as this research confirms, a significant portion of the existing UK quota is already in foreign hands.
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own quotas, each with different degrees of foreign ownership.
Under plans outlined in the Fisheries Bill, which is currently going through Parliament, the government does not intend to return the foreign-owned quota to UK fishermen.
It has said only that it is "reviewing…with a view to strengthening the rules" surrounding foreign ownership of UK-flagged boats.
Current rules say even if vessels are 100% foreign-owned, they must have an "economic link" to the UK. That means they must meet one of five conditions, which include landing more than half their catch at UK ports or having majority British crews.
In March, Environment Secretary George Eustice said planned changes under the Fisheries Bill will ensure foreign-owned boats "are required to land more of their catch in UK ports, and return more economic benefit to the UK".
He added: "In future any foreign company that wanted to buy vessels in the UK might well be able to, but it would be subject to that new condition."
For many in the fishing industry that does not go far enough.
"I'm alarmed at how bad the level of foreign ownership really is - it far exceeds my worst expectations," said Paul Lines, from Fishing for Leave, a pro-Brexit group within the British fishing industry.
"I fear government action will change nothing, and we're still going to be dominated by a foreign presence."
Fishing for Leave wants to change the rules so all British fishing vessels must be "60% British-owned; 60% British-crewed; (and must) land, process and sell 60% of their catches in Britain".
But Dr Emma Cardwell, from the University of Glasgow, told the BBC that an enforced change in ownership would be "legally tricky" for the government.
Many parts of the quota were sold by English fishermen in the 1990s when fishing rights were cut dramatically. Cod fishing, for instance, was almost entirely stopped for several years.
Foreign companies then bought it up as a long-term investment, and experts say the quota market has been allowed to develop in an unregulated way ever since.
"There's a lack of clarity on the legal status of fishing rights," Dr Cardwell said, "meaning the government is very vulnerable to litigation if it tries to reallocate quota.
"Any foreign fishing companies that purchased UK quota in good faith would be very likely to sue if this was now taken away from them."
More than £160m worth of the English quota is in the hands of vessels owned by companies based in Iceland, Spain and the Netherlands, thanks to a practice known as "quota-hopping".
That amounts to 55% of the quota's annual value in 2019.
Taking back control of UK fishing waters was a key issue for many Brexit supporters.
But with fishing still an obstacle in the UK's trade talks with the European Union, the figures raise questions about what taking back control will actually mean.
Quotas are at the heart of heated debates about fishing on both sides of the English Channel.
Many countries use them to manage shared fish stocks. They determine how many fish of each species each country's fleets are allowed to catch.
The EU's Common Fisheries Policy (CFP) sets quotas among EU member states, and similar deals are negotiated with neighbouring countries
The UK government says becoming an independent coastal state after Brexit will give it the right to decide "who fishes in our waters and on what terms".
But, as this research confirms, a significant portion of the existing UK quota is already in foreign hands.
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland all have their own quotas, each with different degrees of foreign ownership.
Under plans outlined in the Fisheries Bill, which is currently going through Parliament, the government does not intend to return the foreign-owned quota to UK fishermen.
It has said only that it is "reviewing…with a view to strengthening the rules" surrounding foreign ownership of UK-flagged boats.
Current rules say even if vessels are 100% foreign-owned, they must have an "economic link" to the UK. That means they must meet one of five conditions, which include landing more than half their catch at UK ports or having majority British crews.
In March, Environment Secretary George Eustice said planned changes under the Fisheries Bill will ensure foreign-owned boats "are required to land more of their catch in UK ports, and return more economic benefit to the UK".
He added: "In future any foreign company that wanted to buy vessels in the UK might well be able to, but it would be subject to that new condition."
For many in the fishing industry that does not go far enough.
"I'm alarmed at how bad the level of foreign ownership really is - it far exceeds my worst expectations," said Paul Lines, from Fishing for Leave, a pro-Brexit group within the British fishing industry.
"I fear government action will change nothing, and we're still going to be dominated by a foreign presence."
Fishing for Leave wants to change the rules so all British fishing vessels must be "60% British-owned; 60% British-crewed; (and must) land, process and sell 60% of their catches in Britain".
But Dr Emma Cardwell, from the University of Glasgow, told the BBC that an enforced change in ownership would be "legally tricky" for the government.
Many parts of the quota were sold by English fishermen in the 1990s when fishing rights were cut dramatically. Cod fishing, for instance, was almost entirely stopped for several years.
Foreign companies then bought it up as a long-term investment, and experts say the quota market has been allowed to develop in an unregulated way ever since.
"There's a lack of clarity on the legal status of fishing rights," Dr Cardwell said, "meaning the government is very vulnerable to litigation if it tries to reallocate quota.
"Any foreign fishing companies that purchased UK quota in good faith would be very likely to sue if this was now taken away from them."
I find being managed by EU reps of mediocre experience and 3rd rate economies for their own benefits, and handing out £bns annually to prop up the majority of other ineffectual EU members repulsive and iniquitous and a mockery to the British peoplewho'd so easily have done with these monies esp those voted overwhelmingly for Brexit last December 2019.
Just get it over and done with, and draw a line underneath.
Just get it over and done with, and draw a line underneath.
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