Starmer

"Even if we leave the misrepresentation aside"


An independent investigation by Full Facts found the guidelines which were updated on the 13th of MARCH,said twice that it is "very unlikely" that people receiving care in a care home will become infected.

Just lol at that cheers chaps hehe

Your attention to detail appears to be on a par with that of Johnson.

Why can't you just accept that Johnson is the wrong man to be PM during a national crisis.
He's a cheerleader.

What are you on about, lapsy pa's post confirms what I said, the advice was updated in March.

Maybe he really can't grasp it?

A bit late though?

Is Cider Boris?

May 14, 2020 -- 4:01PM, Cider wrote:

What are you on about, lapsy pa's post confirms what I said, the advice was updated in March.

Read Starmer's words again .....

I'm not disputing that it was later than ideal. Since it has been updated for two months, why raise it now?

Early March may have been a little beneficial.

May 14, 2020 -- 4:06PM, Cider wrote:

I'm not disputing that it was later than ideal. Since it has been updated for two months, why raise it now?

Because the impact is only know becoming known.

"why raise it now"


Because it was shocking policy.

It's pertinent in the overall inquiry that's sure to take place but not directly relevant now obviously. Not unless your ambition is political point scoring.

No,the ambition is amswers,if the goverment advice is "people in care homes are very unlikely to become infected" and it costs thousands of lives based on that guideline, don't people deserve an answer?

If you look at reports produced from inquiries conducted in to disasters, they invariably provide significant volumes of evidence to demonstrate that there were numerous prior warnings and that numerous bad decisions were taken.

I have personal knowledge of the Cullen Report (Piper Alpha) and have studied both the Texas City refinery explosion and the Deepwater Horizon blowout.

Such reports also describe bad decisions taken in real time that resulted from individuals failing to acknowledge that a problem existed, sticking to previously held positions to the detriment of mitigating the disaster as it evolved.

Matter of fact it is bordering on criminal incompetence.

By the way, Nadine Dorries, a health minister, and two other Conservative MPs, Lucy Allan and Maria Caulfield, have now been reprimanded by their own party whips for sharing a tweet that contained a false smear about Sir Keir Starmer.

get the nooses ready!!!!

I think this will pale into insignificance when an in-depth enquiry is underway on the behaviour of government on Covid-19. But, Starmer is good for Parliament bringing a bit of decorum back to the House; the baying mobs were disrespectful and unworthy to be there at all.

tar & feather them i say!!!

They were still doing contact tracing at the time, so without being directly involved myself, they likely thought it wasn't a significant threat to care homes. 456 cases on the 11th iirc it was around the time contact tracing had to be abandoned and they knew it was then likely to penetrate the care community.

i agree with 123, btw

"They were still doing contact tracing at the time"

They weren't,that is just bollox,they were going the herd immunity route.

I was correct so it ties in exactly. Care home advice was changed when they realised they had lost the ability to track down every case.

The UK abandoned "community" testing and thorough contact tracing on March 12 after it became clear the virus was spreading beyond control.

PHE was probably over confident in the early stages that they could keep on top of all the cases.

They never had the ability to track cases else we wouldn't have lost control

Highest deaths bar trump

Despite having models of how to combat the virus

Herd immunity catastrophic error

I'm an advocate of carrying on as normal personally, though I realise that wouldn't be the majority view.

Well sadly, we did carry on as normal, until it was too late.

Sadly we went into the UK version of a lockdown. Which nearly 70 million people are, and will continue to pay for in one way or another.

Eventually we did, far too late though. The damage was done.

Hardly a lockdown here in the UK, If you take into account the key workers who are,
NHS staff
Postal workers
delivery drivers,
shelf stackers,
builders working 2 meters apart
teachers
food chain workers
utility workers
bus drivers
police
fire brigade
civilian defence staff
justice system
charity workers
broadcasters
journalists
newspaper printers
funeral parlours
government officials
Bank workers,
train drivers,etc etc
and all other people who can't work from home,
that must make up 75% of the population.

No wonder our death rate is high, also, continuing to let people arrive from other countries without any checks,
They were told to self isolate, yeah of course they will. what a fooking shambles.
we might as well had just carried on as usual like sweden and told people to use there common sense,
that way we wouldnt have lost our economy as well as thousands of people.
I like Boris but he's listened to the left wing clique of scientists and doctors who have been wrong again and again.

would weathermen/women come under broadcasters?

Cider going against the will of the British people

How ironic is that

I do not think the government know precisely what "essential" means eg motor parts courier. Is that essential? I'd have thought the emergency eg police/fire brigade/ and nhs workers are only genuine essentials. Of the others apart from these only a selection or nomination eg pharmacies/post offices/banks/breakdown services/etc, given the much fewer need due to lockdown.

Cider absolutely soiling himself with worry about the roasting Pericles is going to be getting every week from Sir Keir

The hide and seek champ wont turn up every week.

May 14, 2020 -- 5:53PM, impossible123 wrote:

I do not think the government know precisely what "essential" means eg motor parts courier. Is that essential? I'd have thought the emergency eg police/fire brigade/ and nhs workers are only genuine essentials. Of the others apart from these only a selection or nomination eg pharmacies/post offices/banks/breakdown services/etc, given the much fewer need due to lockdown.

Do you not think that other key workers use a car to commute? Or indeed emergency vehicles need to be maintained?

Rees Mogg and Starmer the most competent politicians we have imo (for context i give them both a score of about 7 /10 )

Starmer is ideally suited to leader of the opposition. He wont get this right all the time but one interview i saw he did praise part of the governments strategy while questioning other parts of it. Im ok with him for now.

Yeah what a man, already posted his ramadan virtue signalling bollocks on twitter and promoted the horrendous racist Naz Shah in his first week, some guy. What next a visit to Palestine terrorists graves to deliver flowers?

Nice to see him take Part in the Ram  Business,, does he take part in any other Activities some of the Chaps par take in ?

Starmer just another lightweight,has an easy ride because of the imposter he replaced and plenty of open goals due to the current situation,he's got no decisions to make and fortunately won't have for at least another 5 years.

Don't be too confident about the five year part.

May 15, 2020 -- 2:50PM, politicspunter wrote:

Don't be too confident about the five year part.

Yeah it will be 10-20 years till the muzzie vote

Who are you talking about please?

'Cider', I think you are scraping the barrel.

Only open nominated garages (not everyone) given the massive reduction in traffic and vehicle use. Similarly, post offices/pharmacies/couriers/etc eg Amazon/ebay; deliveries could take longer (so what given lockdown) - the bigger the pool of "essential" workers in operation the higher the risk of infection amongst the public.

Starmer is good for the Labour Party and British politics. He's learned, with decorum and intelligence unlike his predecessor and his motley crew of misfits regularly baying like wild animals in the House Of Commons or shouting like young children in the playground.

A lot of garages have shut down anyway as it's a lot easier to shove everyone on furlough. Lots of people still need to have a running car, probably as you don't need to drive yourself you have no concept of the bigger picture.

I work in transport, but I cannot use my car because of social distancing. However, I've managed to MOT it just before lockdown but left servicing till later despite procuring the necessary parts.

The government have been pants with tackling Covid-19. And, with Mr Hancock at he helm the worse gets even worse.

Some people have no option but to use their car. Is that so impossible to appreciate?

cider you still on about starmer? dear me he really has got you rattled already

There really little point in debating with you on this subject as your perception and my understanding about the PURPOSE of a lockdown is too wide a gulf to bridge.

It's difficult to understand how you consider it a debate? Just one example. So some people have carers visit their home daily out of necessity, due to for example being infirm or disabled. They need to be washed, fed, lifted etc. How do you think those carers get to other peoples' homes to deliver this necessary care?

Rees Mogg and Starmer the most competent politicians we have imo

the most responsibility Moggie's ever had was working out Nanny's annual increase to her stipend

'feigned ignorance'

Didn't take the pm long to completely nail captain forensic then

Starmer having his questions answered by Hancock was the best bit.

Nope, the best bit was definitely captain forensic being put back in his box.

Lol, what coverage were you watching? Here is Boris with his ventriloquist Hancock...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-52733676

Go to 13.28.

Thanks for the link, I try not to use the bbc website wherever possible. In this instance I watched PMQ's live. in full so there is no need.

'feigned ignorance'

Didn't take the pm long to completely nail captain forensic then

You must have a very poor image of the fat buffoon if you think that qualifies as a success

The speaker mugged Johnson off when he brought it to everyone's attention that Hancock was trying to prompt him.

May 20, 2020 -- 2:59PM, geordie1956 wrote:

'feigned ignorance'Didn't take the pm long to completely nail captain forensic thenYou must have a very poor image of the fat buffoon if you think that qualifies as a success

I wouldn't anticipate you agreeing with that interpretation to be fair

Starmer was quite rattled and put off (the truth hurts), to argue the opposite could be described as, well, feigning ignorance

You must have been watching a different PMQ.

Starmer won the day rightly enough but he did appear a bit confused for one brief moment when Johnson had a go about his negativity and he replied that 35,000 wasn't neg..er is negative.

Most of the recent ones Corbyn was asking the questions on behalf of the opposition, difference was he wasn't feigning

I don't understand how his aides think that it is a good look for Johnson always to appear as if he's just been dragged through a hedge backwards, is it an attempt to portray him as a sleeves rolled up getting down and dirty with the ordinary man on the street sort of thing.

Ordinary men over 25 have that kind of hairdo in the UK?

Ray Allan Hancock did a fair job of operating Lord Snooty though.

May 20, 2020 -- 3:50PM, duffy wrote:

I don't understand how his aides think that it is a good look for Johnson always to appear as if he's just been dragged through a hedge backwards, is it an attempt to portray him as a sleeves rolled up getting down and dirty with the ordinary man on the street sort of thing.

One could hardly say it has been unsuccessful approach to his political career so far. Whether you agree with his politics or not.

Boris, like most Western leaders apart from Trump, enjoyed high opinion poll ratings in the first few weeks of the virus situation. He is being found out now though, his approval ratings are in freefall and the last poll I saw had Starmer more popular than him.

Starmer forces Johnson to say track and trace will be up and running 1 june.


1 hour after pmqs it is confirmed the tracing app being developed by Cummings mate
Will not be ready


If that's a good look for Johnson then some folk are easy pleased.

May 20, 2020 -- 3:57PM, politicspunter wrote:

Boris, like most Western leaders apart from Trump, enjoyed high opinion poll ratings in the first few weeks of the virus situation. He is being found out now though, his approval ratings are in freefall and the last poll I saw had Starmer more popular than him.

They remain higher than they were before the crisis started, in fact he had some negative ratings in early March. Tories have huge double digit leads in GE polls, doubt CCHQ are quite at the panic stage in regard to the threat of captain forensic.

Starmer is getting Bojo to make promises each time they duel. A shame the Speaker did not ask Hancock t step-up and answer for Bojo instead of prompting him unsuccessfully. I think Starmer will make mincemeat of Hancock, if so.

Bojo since becoming Prime Minister and esp during this pandemic in PMQ against Starmer has almost foregone his bluster and mocking of his opposite number at the Despatch Box. I think the persona of Bojo serves a purpose. It distracts his opposition and lulls them into a false sense of superiority. But, will it work with Starmer who's still lacking political experience and combat at the Despatch Box nevertheless, more than an equal match with Bojo, and with a proven intelligence to boot too in the near future?

May 20, 2020 -- 4:06PM, Cider wrote:

May 20, 2020 --  2:57PM, politicspunter wrote:Boris, like most Western leaders apart from Trump, enjoyed high opinion poll ratings in the first few weeks of the virus situation. He is being found out now though, his approval ratings are in freefall and the last poll I saw had Starmer more popular than him.They remain higher than they were before the crisis started, in fact he had some negative ratings in early March. Tories have huge double digit leads in GE polls, doubt CCHQ are quite at the panic stage in regard to the threat of captain forensic.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

Sure, the tories still have a decent lead but the gap is closing, rather quickly in particular regarding leader approval ratings.

The last update in the leader net approval ratings above from the company Opinion (13-14 May) have Boris at +10 and Starmer at +24.

Johnson forced into lies at pmqs to maintain his image

It's money in the bank for a future date

Starmer is not the pm, and a long shot he will ever be the pm. His approval rating as an oppo leader is literally irrelevant. Boris was +6% with Opinium on 13 March and as you've noted +10% on 14th May. Still higher, as I noted. Even Boris wasn't going to maintain approval ratings of +29% or so as the country faces up to the realities of unwinding out of lockdown.

May 20, 2020 -- 4:34PM, Cider wrote:

Starmer is not the pm, and a long shot he will ever be the pm. His approval rating as an oppo leader is literally irrelevant. Boris was +6% with Opinium on 13 March and as you've noted +10% on 14th May. Still higher, as I noted. Even Boris wasn't going to maintain approval ratings of +29% or so as the country faces up to the realities of unwinding out of lockdown.

On the contrary, Starmer is clear favourite with all bookies to be next PM.

Think you can still get 2.75 with Fred.

I was referring to the true price, 3.0 on betfair absolute madness What a lay, but I have no appetite for locking up liquidity for years.

His approval rating as an opposition leader remains irrelevant.

Next pm offers the chance Boris resigns and money is gone on Starmer if tories replace Johnson without election.

Starmer to be pm at any point is probably about 5/6 without thinking too deeply about it.

Happy to tie up money long term on long shot prices if they put a market up

Longshot 16/1 ish, ta

The Tories would just have a leadership election. That Starmer price is absolute bonkers, though I must admit I never looked at the market as I have no interest in playing next pm right now.

May 20, 2020 -- 5:03PM, Cider wrote:

The Tories would just have a leadership election. That Starmer price is absolute bonkers, though I must admit I never looked at the market as I have no interest in playing next pm right now.

I agree that price is nuts. Anything can, and probably will happen.

For me Boris will have much more to worry about from Rishi. Genuinely. But not for a number of years. I feel he's brilliant personally, and not just because he's had to give a lot of money away.

Sunak is celebrated whilst he gives money to the masses ... there will be a reckoning though which won't be well received  ... we'll find out how good he is then!

How good does anyone need to be who is married to a billionaires daughter?

He is merely playing politics to keep himself out of mischief...

It would be folly to put it down to the giveaway. He is very close to being, if not the strongest politician I've seen. Clearly righting the economic ship is going to be an extremely tough challenge but we have the best person for the job.

Very easy when you are playing with other peoples money . The acid test is when you are putting your own stash on the line .

Playing with other peoples money is kind of a fundamental part of being the chancellor of the exchequer

May 20, 2020 -- 5:29PM, Cider wrote:

It would be folly to put it down to the giveaway. He is very close to being, if not the strongest politician I've seen. Clearly righting the economic ship is going to be an extremely tough challenge but we have the best person for the job.

Give us a break. You or I could do what he has done so far. Testing times are ahead for him.

I was impressed by Rishi long before he became chancellor. Let's see how it plays out.

Were you impressed by his performances in the tv debates ahead of the December election ?

Yes of course. I wouldn't expect you to give any credit to any Tory MP who didn't support leaving the EU though.

#supported leaving the EU

May 20, 2020 -- 5:50PM, Cider wrote:

Yes of course. I wouldn't expect you to give any credit to any Tory MP who didn't support leaving the EU though.

He was rotten in the live TV debates and I am being generous.

Paul Johnson of @TheIFS, who knows a thing or two about
the public finances, says exempting migrant health and
care workers from the NHS surcharge would cost around
£90m, a tenth of the £900m @BorisJohnson said it would
cost in reply to @Keir_Starmer today


Oops, imagine if a Labour person got some figures wrong.

A Labour person getting the figures right would be the outlier.

Will Johnson be invited to correct the record,... Again

At least no buses were harmed in the fabrication of the figures

we could do with that extra £350 million a week right now