Chit Chat
Google; Kent live news coronavirus full list of schools,businesses,gp surgeries,hospitals affected by the covid 19 outbreak.
That is the 13th of March, some list and that is just Kent.
The recession will be a depression if we are not very lucky now. In a depression, the death rate soars. Especially with a 'snowflake' society like we have today.
Either the virus is allowed to run its course and we develop herd immunity, or we wreck the country's economy and its health services for at least a decade through trying to preserve life.
Both courses of action will result in a lot of extra people dying. Sad, but it really is about time 'Snowflake UK' manned up here and faced facts about how we have a pandemic which could well be as bad as the 1918-20 one.
BJ is not up to being PM, in my view, and things could have been done better. BUT, nobody really knows what to do and the constant carping about what governments do actually do is probably affecting their judgment now. It shouldn't of course, but the obsession with social media is a downside of the internet we could have done without.
Last night's message was a mess but that comes about through a government trying to please too many people instead of just doing what they think.
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11 May 20 09:45
Joined: 29 Jan 09
| Topic/replies: 3,789 | Blogger: lapsy pa's blog
Really?
Google; Kent live news coronavirus full list of schools,businesses,gp surgeries,hospitals affected by the covid 19 outbreak.
That is the 13th of March, some list and that is just Kent.
^
This...?
https://www.kentlive.news/news/kent-news/kent-coronavirus-full-list-schools-3949360
^
As I said above....
There are no reported cases of a child spreading Covid to an adult.
There are no reported clusters coming out of any school anywhere in the world.
Where is the evidence closing primary schools stops the spread of the disease?
Certainly nothing in that article.
The fact we have not seen any cluster anywhere in the world coming out of a primary school suggests there is no evidence closing them stops the spread.
You got any evidence suggesting closing primary schools stops the spread?
Are you involved in machine learning, natural language programming, robitics ?
Interesting you dodge the schools evidence question.
Very interesting indeed.
May 11, 2020 -- 4:48AM, The Knight wrote:
For all the liberals on here telling us how bad the virus could be....The recession will be a depression if we are not very lucky now. In a depression, the death rate soars. Especially with a 'snowflake' society like we have today. Either the virus is allowed to run its course and we develop herd immunity, or we wreck the country's economy and its health services for at least a decade through trying to preserve life. Both courses of action will result in a lot of extra people dying. Sad, but it really is about time 'Snowflake UK' manned up here and faced facts about how we have a pandemic which could well be as bad as the 1918-20 one. BJ is not up to being PM, in my view, and things could have been done better. BUT, nobody really knows what to do and the constant carping about what governments do actually do is probably affecting their judgment now. It shouldn't of course, but the obsession with social media is a downside of the internet we could have done without. Last night's message was a mess but that comes about through a government trying to please too many people instead of just doing what they think.
Deal with the here and now, the future is uncertain and we can make decisions to deal with that. But seeing as we're just off commemorating VE Day and the sacrifices thousands of people made, I don't want to roll over and sacrifice thousands more for the sake of capitalism. Every decent analysis says Brexit will damage the economy. HS2 is a white elephant, now more than ever. How much will renewing Trident cost? See, it's easy. If you really want to ensure we don't kill further people then simply re-prioritise your policies.
Fact is, we've got recent evidence of what not to do. Austerity was the disaster. There was a choice to cut services and spending to vital areas. If Brown had remained in charge we'd have followed a different route, rebounded quicker and saved thousands of lives killed by austerity. Let's stay safe, get the infection rate down to Feb levels and look to re-open slowly and carefully using practical methods to supress and further outbreaks.
13th of March.
Experts said the new data suggest that cases could soar in many U.S. communities if schools reopen soon.
Among the most important unanswered questions about Covid-19 is this: What role do children play in keeping the pandemic going?
Fewer children seem to get infected by the coronavirus than adults, and most of those who do have mild symptoms, if any. But do they pass the virus on to adults and continue the chain of transmission?
The answer is key to deciding whether and when to reopen schools, a step that President Trump urged states to consider before the summer.
Two new studies offer compelling evidence that children can transmit the virus. Neither proved it, but the evidence was strong enough to suggest that schools should be kept closed for now, many epidemiologists who were not involved in the research said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/health/coronavirus-children-transmission-school.html
But when schools were open, they found, children had about three times as many contacts as adults, and three times as many opportunities to become infected, essentially evening out their risk.
Based on their data, the researchers estimated that closing schools is not enough on its own to stop an outbreak, but it can reduce the surge by about 40 to 60 percent and slow the epidemic’s course.
Any scientific evidence of any cluster coming out of a primary school anywhere in the world?
11 May 20 10:44
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 227,040 | Blogger: edy's blog
IT doesn't understand the basics of science.
^
A prediction model is just that.
A prediction.
The models being used at the moment for making massive decisions would never be used for things like the insurance industry or even by gamblers. They are just not good enough.
What's your evidence for this assertion?
A study, or studies, that a child can transmit the virus is not really that much of a model.
11 May 20 10:53
Joined: 03 Dec 15
| Topic/replies: 9,504 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blog
The models being used at the moment for making massive decisions would never be used for things like the insurance industry or even by gamblers. They are just not good enough.
What's your evidence for this assertion?
^
Look at Ferguson's code. Not withstanding the assumptions he used in his model are wrong.
The random number seeding in the code gave a massive variety in results. Sometimes when run the result is 350k rather than 520k then mess up is something else is going on on the CPU thread. It has so many bugs and errors it simply cannot be trusted.
Boris even used the 500k number as a marker when announcing policy last night.
11 May 20 11:06
Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 16,266 | Blogger: Angoose's blog
When was it released ?
^
The original was never released.
They have put some out on github that has been reworked a bit.
Some people have managed to find older commits that they did not delete.
https://github.com/mrc-ide/covid-sim
Are you now claiming that it has been released ?
If so, when was it released ?
they reckon 3,4,5,6,7 million may have had the virus and you have it on good authority none got it from children,for starters whats a child,if a 16 yr old can pass it on are you saying a 15 yr old cant and if they can ,can a 14 yr old,etc,etc,
absolutely no evidence kids don't pass it on,in the early days they were calling kids superspreader,s
11 May 20 11:09
Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 16,268 | Blogger: Angoose's blog
You've previously criticised that the fact that the code hadn't been released.
Are you now claiming that it has been released ?
If so, when was it released ?
^
Are you talking about the original code or the reworked link that they keep adding to I just posted?
May 11, 2020 -- 6:07AM, InsiderTrader wrote:
Edy, Angoose and PP are you happy that massive decisions have been made on the basis of unaudited dodgy computer code in the UK?Boris even used the 500k number as a marker when announcing policy last night.
Happier with it than some quacksalver, who is known to be economical with the truth when it doesn't fit his goals, along with being known to understand little about science, telling me otherwise, yes.
11 May 20 11:12
Joined: 25 Dec 05
| Topic/replies: 39,501 | Blogger: 1st time poster's blog
lol INSIDE TRADER
they reckon 3,4,5,6,7 million may have had the virus and you have it on good authority none got it from children,for starters whats a child,if a 16 yr old can pass it on are you saying a 15 yr old cant and if they can ,can a 14 yr old,etc,etc,
absolutely no evidence kids don't pass it on,in the early days they were calling kids superspreader,s
^
No. I asking is there any evidence that closing primary schools helps stop the spread.
Simple question to ask given millons of kids are being denied schooling for months.
They blindly believe whatever they are told by the 'scientist' that happens to be promoted to them and ignore all others.
*evidence, not one particular study.
May 11, 2020 -- 6:24AM, InsiderTrader wrote:
It is interesting people are not even willing to debate any different points of view as far as this Covid thing goes.They blindly believe whatever they are told by the 'scientist' that happens to be promoted to them and ignore all others.
...which is what you are doing... (and have done with other things in the past)
Look, you have been shown that there are studies that children are potentially transmissive, that they emit viruses from their respiratory tract even if they showing mild to no symptoms (the same is true for asymptomatic adults)
That is then where your start thinking, where you use your knowledge on how children behave. Children tend to keep closer distance to each other than a responsible adult would. They are also less likely to keep hygienic standards high at all times.
If you emit viruses for a particular illness, if you keep closer contact, if you don't abide to hygiene as strictly, then it will help the spread.
Not magic, no no, simple logics.
Absolutely bang on.
The last election was a scandal.
The sensible majority were left with a Hobson's choice.
Corbyn and his mad, outdated ideas or BJ and his right wing pals.
I have always voted Tory but would have gladly voted Labour last time had they not been led by a man whose ideas were mostly mad and unworkable - and it wasn't a media campaign that made me think that. It was a careful read of his manifesto which was a lunatic document with promises for almost everyone but no ideas how to pay for them.
Hence, I voted Tory again but with considerable misgivings. In other words, I voted for the 'least worst'. Politics should NEVER have gotten like this.
The general public deserved better than they were offered and I just hope that Kier Starmer identifies how many usual Tory voters like me are so unhappy with BJ and his ultra right wing agenda.
If Starmer takes the middle ground our politics so badly need we might have a decent opposition. If not, god only knows where we will end up, unless BJ blows Brexit and then the North will flock back to Labour whatever.
The next few years do not look promising for the UK.
May 11, 2020 -- 6:05AM, InsiderTrader wrote:
PorcupineorPineapple11 May 20 10:53Joined: 03 Dec 15| Topic/replies: 9,504 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blogThe models being used at the moment for making massive decisions would never be used for things like the insurance industry or even by gamblers. They are just not good enough.What's your evidence for this assertion?^Look at Ferguson's code. Not withstanding the assumptions he used in his model are wrong.The random number seeding in the code gave a massive variety in results. Sometimes when run the result is 350k rather than 520k then mess up is something else is going on on the CPU thread. It has so many bugs and errors it simply cannot be trusted.
If I run the CovidSim with the same input parameters it will come back with vastly different results each time?
It's incredible, they sailed in a dinghy all the way past Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Yemen, through the Suez Canal, past Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Italy, France, Spain and Portugal. No-one saw them till they were 3 miles off Folkestone.
How lucky was that?
May 11, 2020 -- 6:39AM, AFTERTHOUGHT wrote:
The Home Office confirms 17 people who are believed to be from Iraq were brought to Dover this morning after being picked up in the Channel by the Border Force. It brings the number who have attempted the crossing to 321 over the Bank Holiday weekend.It's incredible, they sailed in a dinghy all the way past Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Yemen, through the Suez Canal, past Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Italy, France, Spain and Portugal. No-one saw them till they were 3 miles off Folkestone.How lucky was that?
Sorry bud, this isn't the thread for wetting yourself about foreigners.
May 11, 2020 -- 6:33AM, The Knight wrote:
stewartsriseAbsolutely bang on.The last election was a scandal.The sensible majority were left with a Hobson's choice.Corbyn and his mad, outdated ideas or BJ and his right wing pals.I have always voted Tory but would have gladly voted Labour last time had they not been led by a man whose ideas were mostly mad and unworkable - and it wasn't a media campaign that made me think that. It was a careful read of his manifesto which was a lunatic document with promises for almost everyone but no ideas how to pay for them.Hence, I voted Tory again but with considerable misgivings. In other words, I voted for the 'least worst'. Politics should NEVER have gotten like this. The general public deserved better than they were offered and I just hope that Kier Starmer identifies how many usual Tory voters like me are so unhappy with BJ and his ultra right wing agenda.If Starmer takes the middle ground our politics so badly need we might have a decent opposition. If not, god only knows where we will end up, unless BJ blows Brexit and then the North will flock back to Labour whatever.The next few years do not look promising for the UK.
Yes, good points.
May 11, 2020 -- 6:39AM, AFTERTHOUGHT wrote:
The Home Office confirms 17 people who are believed to be from Iraq were brought to Dover this morning after being picked up in the Channel by the Border Force. It brings the number who have attempted the crossing to 321 over the Bank Holiday weekend.It's incredible, they sailed in a dinghy all the way past Saudi Arabia, UAE, Oman and Yemen, through the Suez Canal, past Egypt, Turkey, Greece, Italy, France, Spain and Portugal. No-one saw them till they were 3 miles off Folkestone.How lucky was that?
wrong thread?
11 May 20 11:38
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 227,046 | Blogger: edy's blog
May 11, 2020 -- 11:05AM, InsiderTrader wrote:
PorcupineorPineapple11 May 20 10:53Joined: 03 Dec 15| Topic/replies: 9,504 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blogThe models being used at the moment for making massive decisions would never be used for things like the insurance industry or even by gamblers. They are just not good enough.What's your evidence for this assertion?^Look at Ferguson's code. Not withstanding the assumptions he used in his model are wrong.The random number seeding in the code gave a massive variety in results. Sometimes when run the result is 350k rather than 520k then mess up is something else is going on on the CPU thread. It has so many bugs and errors it simply cannot be trusted.
If I run the CovidSim with the same input parameters it will come back with vastly different results each time?
^
Correct.
Not seen a single positive thing written about it by anyone in the software/modelling sector.
Same extracts from reddit...
https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/gesrvr/code_review_of_fergusons_model/
.....
'I’ll illustrate with a few bugs. In issue 116 a UK “red team” at Edinburgh University reports that they tried to use a mode that stores data tables in a more efficient format for faster loading, and discovered – to their surprise – that the resulting predictions varied by around 80,000 deaths after 80 days:
That mode doesn’t change anything about the world being simulated, so this was obviously a bug.
The Imperial team’s response is that it doesn’t matter: they are “aware of some small non-determinisms”, but “this has historically been considered acceptable because of the general stochastic nature of the model”. Note the phrasing here: Imperial know their code has such bugs, but act as if it’s some inherent randomness of the universe, rather than a result of amateur coding. Apparently, in epidemiology, a difference of 80,000 deaths is “a small non-determinism”.'
Please join me in prayer that the UK government, having not had the stones to avoid lockdowns in the first place, will at least have the brains to see this as an opportunity to back out of their lose-lose policy using Ferguson as a scapegoat. There isn't going to be a better opportunity than this.
Software test engineer here. Wow. That is your basic, bare minimum smoke test. Not even a single unit test in sight. Not all that surprised though, given how often testing takes a back seat in software development. Now I'm not familiar with writing tests in Python, but this seems poorly structured and difficult to read (given the way the source code also looks, makes sense). Could they at least have used a test framework to give some semblance of organization here?
I say this without hyperbole: this is without a doubt the worst code I have EVER seen in my ENTIRE life. I wanted to vomit when I saw it. I write programs that are in no way critical to health or infrastructure, and I would be IMMEDIATELY FIRED if I wrote code that was even a fraction as bad as this. I wrote better code in fking college getting my computer science degree. Fire these people. Fire all of them.
Software Engineer of ~15 years. If this code came across my desk for review, I wouldn't even bother to try to figure out what it does. I would immediately send it back to the dev and recommend that he be fired. This code is unreadable garbage.
But this is supremely bad with the level of detail that they seem to be including with no rational structure. I'd fail a student that produced this.
Even the braniacs at Microsoft couldn't sanitise this heap of steaming s. They'd been working on cleaning it up for over a month:
The latest commit "Squash history for public release" is telling, no one wanted their name associated with this pile of garbage. If someone on my team submitted this for review, it would be kicked back immediately. No test, crazy variable names (e.g. is P a person or place or ?), huge methods, violates many SOLID principles of OOP, etc.
tl;dr; it is junk - Original author of the code review is spot on.
In a stochastic simulation, let's say you want to test what changing the proportion of susceptible individuals does. So you change it, and rerun the model, but it gives you a higher peak infection rate than the with a lower number of immune individuals. We know this is wrong, it could be something wrong in the model, or it could be that the particular random seed that was chosen, gave you all the 'worst' random numbers for the 2nd run compared to the first one. You need to isolate the random stochastic noise from the changes to the model. So what you do is you run it with the same pseudo-random seed number, then you know that the randomness is not causing differences between runs and can isolate what individual variables are doing based on that single run. Once you've done this and unit tested all the paramaterisations, you could then run the model with say, a million different random seeds, and take the 95th percentile or the median or whatever you want from those million random runs. That is the basis of all stochastic modelling. What you don't have, is a model that gives a different output with the SAME random seed, because that is just nonsense and indicates a massive bug, not only that, how can you isolate and test individual parameters to perform sensitivity analysis in that environment? You can't.
Not seen one positive comment anywhere on the web about the code and model that Boris used as his frame of reference last night.
May 11, 2020 -- 6:56AM, InsiderTrader wrote:
edy11 May 20 11:38Joined: 13 Dec 06| Topic/replies: 227,046 | Blogger: edy's blog May 11, 2020 -- 11:05AM, InsiderTrader wrote: PorcupineorPineapple11 May 20 10:53Joined: 03 Dec 15| Topic/replies: 9,504 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blogThe models being used at the moment for making massive decisions would never be used for things like the insurance industry or even by gamblers. They are just not good enough.What's your evidence for this assertion?^Look at Ferguson's code. Not withstanding the assumptions he used in his model are wrong.The random number seeding in the code gave a massive variety in results. Sometimes when run the result is 350k rather than 520k then mess up is something else is going on on the CPU thread. It has so many bugs and errors it simply cannot be trusted.If I run the CovidSim with the same input parameters it will come back with vastly different results each time?^Correct.
How do you know?
I do think however that IT is concentrating too much on the model over some potential inaccuracies. Other countries have done their own, independent, models.
He is also charging too much at Ferguson when it was the Tories that went far and beyond the recommendations of his model.
11 May 20 12:08
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 227,054 | Blogger: edy's blog
May 11, 2020 -- 11:56AM, InsiderTrader wrote:
edy11 May 20 11:38Joined: 13 Dec 06| Topic/replies: 227,046 | Blogger: edy's blog May 11, 2020 -- 11:05AM, InsiderTrader wrote: PorcupineorPineapple11 May 20 10:53Joined: 03 Dec 15| Topic/replies: 9,504 | Blogger: PorcupineorPineapple's blogThe models being used at the moment for making massive decisions would never be used for things like the insurance industry or even by gamblers. They are just not good enough.What's your evidence for this assertion?^Look at Ferguson's code. Not withstanding the assumptions he used in his model are wrong.The random number seeding in the code gave a massive variety in results. Sometimes when run the result is 350k rather than 520k then mess up is something else is going on on the CPU thread. It has so many bugs and errors it simply cannot be trusted.If I run the CovidSim with the same input parameters it will come back with vastly different results each time?^Correct.
How do you know?
^
Because the 'model' is based on multiple random number seeds.
Anyone found a positive review of his model/code?
11 May 20 12:14
Joined: 13 Dec 06
| Topic/replies: 227,055 | Blogger: edy's blog
I'm not doubting it's bad code btw.
I do think however that IT is concentrating too much on the model over some potential inaccuracies. Other countries have done their own, independent, models.
He is also charging too much at Ferguson when it was the Tories that went far and beyond the recommendations of his model.
^
Any links to other influential models/code?
.
It was an estimate of deaths if nothing was done what so ever.
No case isolation, no voluntary home quarantine, no social distancing, no closure of schools and universities.
Is that a realistic scenario?
UK society would have continued as if nothing had happened, you would read about thousands of new cases, hundreds of deaths.
Yet society would continue, stiff upper lip, business as usual.
We have evidence that society wouldn't have carried on in this manner, actions were already being taken before the government intervened.
Sporting events were being cancelled despite the governments advice that there was no requirement for this to happen.
As such, you need to look at the other estimates contained within the report.
In scenario 1, an estimate of deaths was provided in a range of 85-98k.
This scenario was dependant on the introduction of three key measures i.e. case isolation, voluntary home quarantine, and social distancing
In scenario 2, an estimate of deaths was provided in a range of 12-53k.
This scenario was dependant on the introduction of three key measures i.e. closure of schools and universities, case isolation, and social distancing
In scenario 3, an estimate of deaths was provided in a range of 9-39k.
This scenario was dependant on the introduction of three key measures i.e. closure of schools and universities, case isolation, voluntary home quarantine, and social distancing
Viewing the report through this lens provides a significantly more balanced approach than you arrive at if you consider the 510k figure as being the inevitable result once the virus had arrived in the UK.
Now, does this mean that I am a raging fan of the report produced by Ferguson and his team?
No, it does not.
It does, however, demonstrate that I am prepared to go behind the headlines and spend some time to actually read the report that created the headline.
to quote the well trodden Brexit phrase having their cake and eating it,
May 11, 2020 -- 7:37AM, aaronh wrote:
you expected that from hard leftists on this forum but a proud traditional conservative, you expect better
He's not a proud traditional conservative. He's rather flexible depending on what his masters are promoting at any given time. There was a time at which he wondered if National Socialism, unlike the bad international socialism, would be the answer for the UK.
11 May 20 12:32
Joined: 18 Sep 09
| Topic/replies: 272,474 | Blogger: aaronh's blog
surely IT hasn't been lying again
^
Where?
11 May 20 12:23
Joined: 18 Jul 02
| Topic/replies: 16,275 | Blogger: Angoose's blog
Ferguson's headline figure of 510k is massively misrepresented.
It was an estimate of deaths if nothing was done what so ever.
No case isolation, no voluntary home quarantine, no social distancing, no closure of schools and universities.
Is that a realistic scenario?
UK society would have continued as if nothing had happened, you would read about thousands of new cases, hundreds of deaths.
Yet society would continue, stiff upper lip, business as usual.
We have evidence that society wouldn't have carried on in this manner, actions were already being taken before the government intervened.
Sporting events were being cancelled despite the governments advice that there was no requirement for this to happen.
As such, you need to look at the other estimates contained within the report.
In scenario 1, an estimate of deaths was provided in a range of 85-98k.
This scenario was dependant on the introduction of three key measures i.e. case isolation, voluntary home quarantine, and social distancing
In scenario 2, an estimate of deaths was provided in a range of 12-53k.
This scenario was dependant on the introduction of three key measures i.e. closure of schools and universities, case isolation, and social distancing
In scenario 3, an estimate of deaths was provided in a range of 9-39k.
This scenario was dependant on the introduction of three key measures i.e. closure of schools and universities, case isolation, voluntary home quarantine, and social distancing
Viewing the report through this lens provides a significantly more balanced approach than you arrive at if you consider the 510k figure as being the inevitable result once the virus had arrived in the UK.
Now, does this mean that I am a raging fan of the report produced by Ferguson and his team?
No, it does not.
It does, however, demonstrate that I am prepared to go behind the headlines and spend some time to actually read the report that created the headline.
^
What do you dislike about the Ferguson report?
Yet this is the sort of thing YOU TWO post
edy • May 9, 2020 9:26 PM BST
Funny you would say that. I did dream of your soft, but masculine, hands rubbing oil, lavender scented, all over my naked body before you gently went on to spoil me further by massaging my penis with your very skilled tongue and mouth.
aaronh • May 9, 2020 9:38 PM BST
LoveLoveLoveLove
Are you two paid to post on here? Your reactions lack judgement and common sense it's as if you're being paid to silence opposing views whilst embarrassing yourselves as bait.
Imagine my shock!
I posted that mildly romantic piece of text in an entirely different thread when my fake catholic, homophobic stalker was yet again harrassing me over another innocent comment from yet another thread.
The Government have abdicated their responsibility.
It is a massive political disaster. Dorris will have to clear up a lot of excrement at 3:30
WTF has Cummings been doing? I thought he was the razor sharp puppet maestro!
We are doomed. We are not a laughing stock. It is beyond that.
PorcupineorPineapple
There are boats docking daily on the south coast if you're after a bit on the side
May 11, 2020 -- 8:19AM, DenzilPenberthy wrote:
I'll take the subsequent posts from edy and aaron as a YES to my questionPorcupineorPineappleThere are boats docking daily on the south coast if you're after a bit on the side
Why don't you go to another forum to discuss your unhealthy obsession rather than derail every other thread on here?
yes English now barred from Entering Wales and Scotland
Absolute Chaos no one knows what they should be Doing "R" rate will go through the roof
3 weeks Lockdown should have been Extended targeting early June For a Planned and Safe return
to some form of Normality ,their only interest now appears that the NHS not be overwhelmed
Lets hope they are Right , No doubt another 30,000 deaths is no problem as Long as hospitals
And funeral parlour's can Cope ....
Read it back you'll spot where it was 'derailed' and it wasn't a Denzil post
Every question was met with a "based on scientific advice" answer. You may as well have got a gif of Father Jack saying "that would be an ecumenical matter" for all the insight we got. Of course it was bull. The scientific advice in itself was flawed with Cummings and other members of the nudge unit having their say despite no scientific background. Then, when they came to present their findings to COBRA, the PM couldn't be arsed to turn up. Scientific advice has been little more than a convenient shield the last few weeks with a complicit press not willing to go deeper and ask specific questions.
Now, we reach phase two and the transferral of responsibility to the public. The warning signs now include green for go. They have placed deliberate mixed messages that mean no-one's sure what to do. Essentially, they've given themselves plausible deniability, but made breaking enforcement impossible to police and hinted that you can go and do what you like.
in some parts I.e the north east who they Said was a couple of weeks behind ,now everyone out and about ....
You cannot make it up .........
7 weeks ago ,I,m not closing pubs but please don't use them,
The Gateway from Europe
So basically the EU are exempt From the proposed quarantine restrictions , WTF are they quarantining most of the rest of the World bar the States
have F.A cases
I see the standout losers as countries like Austria, Australia and Israel that had very strict lockdown but didn’t have many cases. They have damaged their economies, caused massive social damage, damaged the educational year of their children, but not obtained any herd immunity.
“There is no doubt in my mind, that when we come to look back on this, the damage done by lockdown will exceed any saving of lives by a huge factor.
- PROFESSOR MICHAEL LEVITT Nobel Prize winner.
May 11, 2020 -- 8:25AM, DenzilPenberthy wrote:
politicspunter Read it back you'll spot where it was 'derailed' and it wasn't a Denzil post
Denzil, you do it on virtually every thread, you are unhealthily obsessed.
GET YOUR F@CKING MASKS ON NOW
As more people return to work, there will be more movement outside people's immediate household. This increased mobility means the Government is now advising that people should aim to wear a face-covering in enclosed spaces where social distancing is not always possible and they come into contact with others that they do not normally meet, for example on public transport or in some shops. Homemade cloth face-coverings can help reduce the risk of transmission in some circumstances. Face-coverings are not intended to help the wearer, but to protect against inadvertent transmission of the disease to others if you have it asymptomatically.
A face covering is not the same as a facemask such as the surgical masks or respirators used as part of personal protective equipment by healthcare and other workers. These supplies must continue to be reserved for those who need it. Face-coverings should not be used by children under the age of two, or those who may find it difficult to manage them correctly, for example primary age children unassisted, or those with respiratory conditions. It is important to use face-coverings properly and wash your hands before putting them on and taking them off.
many thanks
DORIS,
Merely pointing out a different view old boy....these Nobel prize winners can, on occasion, be worth the time of day.
actually I don't mind the welsh decision, its that doris and co that are messing everyone up
May 11, 2020 -- 8:50AM, Injera wrote:
Do we receive a mask upon purchase of our ticket? I presume a return ticket garners 2 masks..
Naw, you turn the mask round and use the other side.
